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Washington 1952 UFO Incidents - Evidence?


ChrLzs

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One thing that surprises me here is that a USAF pilot, with years in service, would be this far in the bag over this garbage. Did something happen in the cockpit that changed your mind re. this subject sky?

Edited by Merc14
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Earl said:

Earl, I've proffered that NO ONE had ever checked out the B-52's radar system as requested by Project Blue Book team to discern whether an anomaly had occurred or if there was a maintenance history that this specific radar had experienced problems in the past. And Earl, FYI, there were at least 13 radar scope photos and....there was only one scope that ran the photo shoot, not three.

So, what did I really say to Sky?

And...

So, there we have it in black and white...not blue.

Hi Tim,

If you had checked the report, there was nothing wrong with the radar and the radar data from the B-52 was examined as well. Also in the report was that haze and cloud layers were present and at one point during an approach, the B-52 was not visible to tower personnel. What brought the B-52 into the picture in the first place was taken from the report.

Initial Ground-visual Observations

Early in the morning of 24 October 1968, Oscar-Flight Security Controller Staff Sgt. William Smith received a report from a Camper Team posted at the Launch Facility (LF) designated Oscar-6 (O-6). According to Smith, the team was providing aboveground security for a Target Alignment Team working underground in the missile silo when they observed a large glowing object go down behind some trees not far away.

Shortly after, at 2:30 a.m., a missile maintenance team of Airman First Class Robert O'Connor and A1C Lloyd Isley were en route to the November-7 (N-7) Launch Facility when they reported an unusual light in the east to Base Operations. The strange light appeared to be pacing their vehicle while growing brighter. By the time they arrived at N-7, the bright UFO had taken up a position circling to the south.

In response, the Base Operations dispatcher patched in the observers at N-7 with the ground controllers at Radar Approach Control (RAPCON), established an open-line for reporting, and kept a log of the UFO activity over the next two hours. Soon, Flight Security Controllers (FSC) — the officers responsible for the security requirements at the Launch Control Facilities (LCF) — were also reporting sightings via their communications network linked to missile Wing Security Control (WSC).

http://www.minotb52u...om/pdf/0018.pdf

http://www.minotb52u...om/pdf/0019.pdf

What did the B-52 crew see?

B-52 Air-radar Observations

At about 3:00 a.m., a B-52H Stratofortress returned to Minot AFB from a routine 10-hour training mission. The pilots practiced high-altitude instrumented procedures and approaches to the runway, eventually requesting clearance to fly out to the Tactical Air Navigation (TACAN) initial approach fix (“WT fix”), 35 nautical miles northwest of the airbase. Given clearance to Flight Level 200 (20,000 feet altitude), RAPCON ground controllers then asked the crew to “look out toward your 1:00 [one o’clock] position for the next 15 or 16 miles and see if you see any orange glows out there. Somebody is seeing flying saucers again.

The B-52 crew observed nothing out of the ordinary during the flight out. Approaching the WT fix, they initiated a standard 180-degree turnaround that would eventually bring them back over the WT fix on a straight approach to the runway. At 3:52, as they started the wide turn, ground controllers informed the crew “the UFO is being picked up by the weathers [sic] radar also, should be your 1:00 position 3 miles now.

The B-52’s own radar detected the radar return (UFO) co-altitude at three miles away, sparking air safety concerns among the crew. However, as the B-52 banked around the roughly 6-mile diameter turn the UFO maintained a constant three-mile separation, moving to the northeast — outside of the turn radius and to the left of the B-52 as it finally rolled out.

Upon clearing the WT fix to begin the descent back to the runway, the radar return suddenly changed position. In one sweep of the radar — less than three seconds — the UFO appeared to close distance to one mile, while subsequent sweeps would indicate that the return was matching the forward velocity of the B-52. The seemingly phenomenal and instantaneous movement of the UFO startled B-52 navigator Captain Patrick McCaslin: I knew whatever it was that there was something there that I’d never seen on radar. I don’t know of anything that could go laterally in three seconds, two miles, and just stop. It was maintaining our descent rate, and then just laterally to one mile… perfect formation.

At the same instant as the return’s abrupt change of position, the B-52’s two UHF radios ceased transmission on all frequencies with RAPCON. The UFO continued pacing the aircraft off the left wing for nearly 20 miles. Near the end of the descent trajectory, the radarscope camera filmed the UFO as it appeared to spiral around behind the B-52, after which the radar return disappeared and radio communications returned to normal.

http://www.minotb52u...om/pdf/0017.pdf

http://www.minotb52u...om/pdf/0017.pdf

Edited by skyeagle409
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Geez, I'd go with swamp gas before swallowing the crud coming from the likes of Sky and EoT..

Here is some official swamp gas that you can digest.

DC-1952-01a.png

F94-01a.png

F-94s Chase UFOs Over Washington DC

Between 8:15PM and 10:30PM on Saturday July 26, 1952, Air Route Traffic Control ( ARTC ) radar operators at Washington National Airport picked up several unidentified slow moving targets. They were spread out in an arc around Washington from Herndon, Virginia 20 miles North-east, to Andrews AFB about 10 miles east, where they were also being tracked on their radar. At 11:30PM jet interceptors were requested, and by midnight two F-94s from New Castle County AFB about 100 miles north-east were airborne. Just as the two jets arrived in the area the targets disappeared from the radarscopes. The two jets made a systematic search of the area, but couldn't make a visual or radar contact so they returned to their base.

Meanwhile Langley Tower, about 140 miles south began to get reports of weird bright rotating lights of alternating color in the area around Langley AFB near Newport News. The tower operators visually confirmed the sighting and called for an interceptor. An F-94 in the area was visually vectored toward the UFO by the tower operators. The pilot saw the UFO and started toward it when the UFO dimmed and the pilot lost visual contact. The F-94 continued its run and established a radar lock-on, but it was broken in a few seconds as the UFO sped away.

washington1952newspaper-300x168.jpg

The UFOs then reappeared back on the Washington National Airport radarscopes and two more F-94's from New Castle AFB were ordered to the area. When the jets were vectored toward the UFOs, Lieutenant William Patterson, a veteran of the Korean War, found his F-94 surrounded by a ring of bluish-white lights. Patterson radioed for instructions and was not given permission to fire on the UFOs. The UFOS then went into evasive maneuvers, instantly accelerating away beyond range. ARTC vectored Patterson toward another UFO and he made visual contact. He cut in the F-94's afterburner and went after it, but it outdistanced the interceptor and disappeared. After patrolling the area for about twenty minutes, the jets began to run low on fuel and returned to base. Minutes later it began to get light, and by the time the sun came up all the targets were gone.3 Below is a reproduction of a July 1952 memo by Gilbert Levy, Chief USAF Counter Intelligence Division, which mentions the F-94 intercept.

Edited by skyeagle409
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Hi Tim,

If you had checked the report, there was nothing wrong with the radar and the radar data from the B-52 was examined as well. Also in the report was that haze and cloud layers were present and at one point during an approach, the B-52 was not visible to tower personnel. What brought the B-52 into the picture in the first place was taken from the report.

Hey Sky,

The radar may have been functioning properly or not. We simply don't know. Lt Col Werlich, the base UFO officer investigating the incident, was asked if the radar system had been checked out by maintenance...the answer was no and gave no particular rationale as to why.

The same can be said for the temporary loss of UHF radio transmission as the comm folks did not remove the radio system for a full analysis...another perplexing lack of due diligence by Werlich. BTW, the missile launch crews were supposedly conversing via their UHF radios with the B-52. No one had ever bothered to check if they had lost transmission capability as well.

Yes, you quote from Tom Tulien's site, a great site BTW, and Tom and I have had extensive conversations regarding his theories. Tom's a nice guy and I truly enjoy hashing this case out with him, but I respectfully disagree with his total premise.

I would suggest that you study all of the AF-117s from the ground personnel and the B-52' pilot. The ground personnel state that the UFO was moving anywhere from 75 knots to 150 knots from their vantage point. They do not describe an object either pacing the aircraft nor moving at extremely high speeds. But none the less, the scope photos show such a thing. Interesting to be sure, but questionable as to what is actually being captured on scope vs that of what is being observed from the ground.

BTW, there were no Combat Targeting Team at Oscar -6, this team suddenly shows up in the story some 40 years after the fact. There was a security Camper Alert Team on site probably due to an OZ and/or IZ security system issue.

Suggest you read all of the reports, documents and memo for records for this case. I'll gladly resurrect my Minot thread and we can discuss the case there. Its a great case to discuss, but probably not here...my opinion of course.

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Sky, feel free to explain why YOU think the alienz have disappeared. But please, FIRST go visit a decent astronomy club and take a long hard look at what these guys are packing, before you make a horrible misjudgment by only considering the military/govt...

Basically speaking, you want me to see what astronomers have been reporting. How about a few of many UFO reports made by astronomers?

A List Of Sightings By Astronomers

Astronomer Clyde Tombaugh UFO Sighting (Astronomer Who Discovered Pluto)

August, 20, 1949 - Las Cruces, New Mexico, United States

Clyde Tombaugh was the American astronomer who discovered the planet Pluto. On August 20, 1949, he observed a UFO that appeared as a geometrically arranged group of six-to-eight rectangles of light, window-like in appearance and yellowish-green in color, which moved from northwest to southeast over Las Cruces, New Mexico.

November 17th, 1623:

'A burning globe appeared at sunset - on 17 November 1623. It was visible indifferent places all over Germany. In Austria, it is affirmed a sound of cracking or crushing came from it, as if from a thunderbolt, which, however, I take to be groundless.'Johannes Kepler .

March 21st, 1676:

The Italian, Geminiano Montanari, was knowledgeable in geophysics,biology,mathematics, ballistics, and meteorology; but his greatest achievements are considered to have been in astronomy. He reported this sighting to: Edmund Halley, who commented - 'I find it one of the hardest things to account for, that I have ever yet met.'..'It appeared one and three quarter hours after sunset, coming over the Adriatic from Dalmatia. It crossed over all Italy, at a height of some 40 miles, and hissed as it passed,over Ronzare. It passed over the sea from Leghorn to Corsica, with a sound like the rattling of a great cartover stones. I compute that it travelled 160 miles a minute. It seemed to be a vast body apparently bigger than the moon!' (FSOM/DSB)

May 1677:

'..the famous astronomer,Edmund Halley, Savilian professor of geometry at Oxford University,reported seeing a "great light in the sky all over Southern England, many miles high."'

July 31st, 1708:

'..from 9 to 10 p.m., a similar apparition, thought to be 50 miles high, passed over Sheerness, and the 'Buoy at the Nore,' Suffolk, and London. It moved "with incredible speed, and was very bright. It seemed to vanish and left a pale white light behind it. There were no hissing sounds and no explosion."' (FSOM)

1715:

Unusual phenomena were observed on the Moon, at the time of the solar eclipse, by Edmund Halleyand J.E.de Louville - '..as it were a sort of flash or momentary vibrations of beams of light, as thoughsomeone were setting fire to gunpowder trails as used in mining. These bright flashes were very brief induration and appeared now here, now there, but always in the shade.' (FSR 41-2)

March 6th, 1716:

Halley saw an object illuminating the sky for more than two hours from about 7:00 p.m.onwards: 'A man could easily read print in the light thrown out by these spears from the same body. It did notchange for two hours, and then it seemed as if new fuel had been cast on a fire.' / Similar phenomena were reported to Halley by other astronomers of his time, notably by astronomers Gottfried Kirch and Schlazius, at Leipzig, Germany re. an event on July 9th, 1686 and by Montanari an Italian mathematician and astronomer regarding a sighting on March 21st, 1676.

May 1764:

Astronomer Hoffman saw a large round spot traverse the sun from north to south. (MHervey)

June 17th, 1777:

Charles Messier, famous for his nebula catalogue observed a large number of dark spots inthe skies, disc shaped, which were unknown to him. In his log book he wrote - 'They were large and swift and they were ships, yet like bells.'

June 8th, 1868:

A number of British astronomers at Oxford's Radcliffe Observatory saw a luminous object moving quickly across the sky, stopping and changing its course at least three times.

August 1st, 1871:

A French astronomer, E.A.Coggia, known for cometary discoveries, saw, in Marseilles, an object slowly moving across the sky, he was unable to explain. According to his description, it appeared at10:43 pm, and was a magnificent red object moving slowly eastward. At 10:52:30 pm it stopped, and then moved northward, until stopping again after a further seven minutes. Its next movement was once againtowards the east, finally disappearing, or falling behind the horizon at 11:03:20 pm. (NL)

April 1882, Scientific American Vol 46, page 49.

Two triangular objects

March 11th, 1950:

'On that day, also, the astronomical observatory at Culiacan watched a disk-like object through the telescope, and in Tampico, Tamaulipas, amateur astronomer Gonzalo Ibanez reported watching a saucer through his telescope at 9 p.m. in the direction of the Great Bear Constellation. It moved toward thesoutheast at a great velocity.' (True 6-50 in LG6)

Edited by skyeagle409
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Hey Sky,

The radar may have been functioning properly or not. We simply don't know. Lt Col Werlich, the base UFO officer investigating the incident, was asked if the radar system had been checked out by maintenance...the answer was no and gave no particular rationale as to why.

The same can be said for the temporary loss of UHF radio transmission as the comm folks did not remove the radio system for a full analysis...another perplexing lack of due diligence by Werlich. BTW, the missile launch crews were supposedly conversing via their UHF radios with the B-52. No one had ever bothered to check if they had lost transmission capability as well.

Yes, you quote from Tom Tulien's site, a great site BTW, and Tom and I have had extensive conversations regarding his theories. Tom's a nice guy and I truly enjoy hashing this case out with him, but I respectfully disagree with his total premise.

I would suggest that you study all of the AF-117s from the ground personnel and the B-52' pilot. The ground personnel state that the UFO was moving anywhere from 75 knots to 150 knots from their vantage point. They do not describe an object either pacing the aircraft nor moving at extremely high speeds. But none the less, the scope photos show such a thing. Interesting to be sure, but questionable as to what is actually being captured on scope vs that of what is being observed from the ground.

BTW, there were no Combat Targeting Team at Oscar -6, this team suddenly shows up in the story some 40 years after the fact. There was a security Camper Alert Team on site probably due to an OZ and/or IZ security system issue.

Suggest you read all of the reports, documents and memo for records for this case. I'll gladly resurrect my Minot thread and we can discuss the case there. Its a great case to discuss, but probably not here...my opinion of course.

Hi Tim,

If you have the time, you might want to read from these links.

Interviews

TT You saw the B-52 coming in penetrating the Minot area? MI Well, no, we saw him coming from the base area, we saw the light come in to view and come over us, or to the west of us a little bit (gesturing the position [N-7] and the path of the B-52).

As you recalled, they patched those guys on radio through to the tower operator who was in contact with the B-52 so they could coordinate what the people on the ground were seeing versus what the B-52 was doing. So some of what you say is right on to the report.

KF Yeah.

JK Now this B-52 went around again at low altitude and the two saw an object, a self luminous large object on or near the ground. This was early in the morning.

KF OK.

JK And if he [Col. Werlich] was called out he probably would have been on base by the time these guys [b-52 pilots] saw this thing, and they got a pretty good look at it. There are about 120 pages of documents in the National Archives in the records that came from the Headquarters of the United States Air Force, Project Blue Book.

http://sohp.us/inter...illiam-2001.pdf

http://sohp.us/inter...Robert-2005.pdf

http://sohp.us/inter...-Lloyd-2001.pdf

Edited by skyeagle409
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Sky, can you PLEASE stop posting more crud WITHOUT ACTUALLY CHECKING IT?

Understand that the U.S. Air Force has admitted on multiple occasions that the UFOs in question, are, in its own words: "Interplanetary spaceships, which it reconfirmed in 1952 in its intelligence report.

Oh Really? Even if they did (and even your own (?) words suggest it was just one person's report, NOT an officially sanctioned USAF opinion... in what way is that opinion backed up by actual evidence?

And now lets look at your FIRST glaring error in that post. You pasted a whole pile of text, followed by this really useful BROKEN link.

The link doesn't work. FIX IT. Don't you check back your own posts to ensure they work? Is this just about how much drivel you can cut and paste, or are you genuinely here to debate? I know what document you meant to point at, but you really need to take responsibility for your own errors, so please post a corrected link and an APOLOGY - maybe if you started admitting your mistakes and falsehoods you might start to realise why your cred is sinking like a stone...

Let's stop there. Did I mention that the radar units were checked and found to be in normal operating condition?

Yes, indeed, let's stop RIGHT there. You sure did mention that, but you didn't cite it. Where are these tests?

If you can't show them, then you have NO EVIDENCE.

Seriously, Sky, do you not understand what EVIDENCE is? It is NOT you (or anyone, including Maj. Dewey Fournet above) 'mentioning' something and hoping that everyone will swoon at your claimed expertise and just take your flippin word for it.

I'm not going any further with responding to this continued drivel until you start correcting your errors, admitting them,. and backing up EVERYTHING you claim.

SO WHERE ARE THESE TESTS? The ones that prove the radar was working 'normally' ('normally' ? - I'm sure you used a different word before, but never mind.. :)). And then we'll move on to discussing what working 'normally' meant back in those days for such equipment, like a REAL investigator would.

Yes, as you are so fond of saying, let's take a look at them. But I will add a new word.. PROPERLY. We will look at them PROPERLY.

BTW, Sky, I'm pretty sure no-one noticed the huge chunks of my post, including direct questions, that you snipped out. :td: Yes, you can run, you can dodge, you can hide, but those questions will simply come back later. For now, you need to fix that link above and then reference these alleged tests on the radar/s or this is going to be OVER very quickly, as the limitations of those radar systems become very obvious (as if they aren't already, thanks to the other erudite and knowledgeable UM posters..).

Edited by ChrLzs
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Oh, and Earl, did you not read my opening post, where I made it pretty clear (I thought) that the image was NOT a representation of any of the 1952 events, despite it being used every time the dam thing comes up?

Did you not read 1963's post, where he showed that the image is simply showing reflected lights, and was most likely taken much, much later than 1952?

Did you not read my further comments to Quillius here, where I again pointed out that this image is easily shown to have nothing whatsoever to do with the 1952 incidents, as has been verified by many other posters?

My point was that this image and its continuing use by every two-bit article writer that vomits up another lame-a$$ coverage of the 1952 events with never any comment about it being completely irrelevant, is a wonderful example of how ufology 'rolls'... Frankly, it rolls like a pig in sh!#.

That image is simply a humorous distraction - here's another thorough debunking, and later I plan to devote a thread to it, and show a fully repeatable analysis (including some quite simple maths of the probability/statistical kind..), that anyone can replicate using free software. It will show, step by step, exactly how you can verify this type of lens flare. But not here, thanks..

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And it just keeps getting worse. There seems to be some sort of selective blindness, or just sheer incomprehension...

I said this:

Sky, feel free to explain why YOU think the alienz have disappeared. But please, FIRST go visit a decent astronomy club and take a long hard look at what these guys are packing, before you make a horrible misjudgment by only considering the military/govt...

I think is was pretty obvious (especially if you actually read what I said leading up to it - clearly Sky DIDN'T) that I was referring to the new technology that is NOW in the hands of astronomers.

And here is Sky's interpretation of my question, suitably amended to suit his desired outcome....

Basically speaking, you want me to see what astronomers have been reporting. How about a few of many UFO reports made by astronomers?

That would be ok, IF he gave some up to date reports... so what does he laughably present? THIS - I'll snip the crud, and just leave in the dates for all the examples Sky gave. Here we go:

August, 20, 1949

November 17th, 1623

March 21st, 1676

May 1677

July 31st, 1708

1715

March 6th, 1716

May 1764

June 17th, 1777

June 8th, 1868

August 1st, 1871

April 1882

March 11th, 1950

Umm, notice anything about those dates? See anything after 1950? Yep, there you have it dear reader, that's Sky's summary of the current state of the art in astronomy tech. Limited to the years from 1623 to 1950. That, to Sky, is the modern age. No wonder he thinks a radar from 1952 (the future!!) is infallible...

You decide, dear reader.. is Sky debating in good faith here?

Edited by ChrLzs
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Given the caliber of the usual alien visitation proponents hereabouts - he's adapting his arguments in light of rebuttals, he's not being rude, he's not repeating himself, he's not talking about rocks, he doesn't think the aliens are implanting things in people for reasons and above all else isn't a tinfoiled, swivel-eyed lunatic, so give the man a bit of leeway, after all the only thing he's doing is not answering our questions to our satisfaction (I'm still waiting to have the craft in the Battle of LA photos pointed out to me after all).

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ChrLzs,

UAP can explain most serious UFOs. Sky will claim these are proof of Alienz. If you mention UAP Sky talks about temperature inversions.

Merc,

The MoDs Condign report goes into detail about how Military primary RADAR can track UAP while detailing why civil aviation RADAR either cannot track or filters UAP tracks out.

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skyeagle409

Do not waste time ... the skeptics can not change your mind ...

Should sound : "Do not waste time ... the skeptics realistst can not change your mind ..."

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Sky, can you PLEASE stop posting more crud WITHOUT ACTUALLY CHECKING IT?

I already have and you have not case.

Oh Really? Even if they did (and even your own (?) words suggest it was just one person's report, NOT an officially sanctioned USAF opinion... in what way is that opinion backed up by actual evidence?

The radar evidence depicts intelligently controlled crafts, not weather balloons nor radar 'ghost angels.' which of course, was confirmed visually by observers on the ground and in the sky. To sum it up, you have no case.

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I said this:

I think is was pretty obvious (especially if you actually read what I said leading up to it - clearly Sky DIDN'T) that I was referring to the new technology that is NOW in the hands of astronomers.

In other words, when astronomers of the 19th century described triangular-shaped flying objects, their observations are not considered credible in your eyes. In other words, those astronomers were too blind to see anything with their telescopes. Ever wondered why Carl Sagan requested radar data from the Air Force in 1968 in regard to the Air Force space surveillance assets that were tracking objects in space that had nothing to do with spacecraft of mankind? I am very sure that Carl Sagan was not asking for radar data regarding weather balloons in earth orbit.

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You decide, dear reader.. is Sky debating in good faith here?

You have shown that you are not knowledgeable enough about radar and radar contracts to understand information that has been presented to you. Have you ever wondered why we had headlines such as this?

bgd3q1.jpg

That object was not only tracked on radar, but visually confirmed by the pilot as well.

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Because "sensation sells"?

Headlines exaggerate, they always have and they always will. I remind you that the press invented "Flying Saucers", Kenneth Arnold reported flying boomerangs, saying that they "skipped through the air like saucers thrown across a lake" and the press turned that into "Flying Saucers", and SUDDENLY (and dare I say "mysteriously") all the UFOs seen after that were saucer shaped for ages until we got the cigarships. Nowadays we're back to boomerangs.

A good rule of thumb in just about every other field of parapsychological investigation is to never trust what's printed in the press. It'll either be lies created by the Powers that Be, lies created by the press to sell copy or just outright misrepresentation.

Edited by Sir Wearer of Hats
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Ever wondered why Carl Sagan requested radar data from the Air Force in 1968 in regard to the Air Force space surveillance

assets that were tracking objects in space that had nothing to do with spacecraft of mankind? I am very sure that Carl Sagan was

not asking for radar data regarding weather balloons in earth orbit.

You are crossing a red line here by using Carl Sagans name to try to back yr woo-woo claims. I dont know if he requested the

radar data or not as this claim was just placed by you here and I have no proof if the claim is true or not. Anyway, even if he

requested the data, did he got it and if yes, how was this data interpreted by Sagan? In addition, give me just one example

where and when Sagan claimed that we do have the scientific proof of extraterrestrial space crafts visited Earth or were within

our detectable range.

In other words, when astronomers of the 19th century described triangular-shaped flying objects, their observations are not

considered credible in your eyes. In other words, those astronomers were too blind to see anything with their telescopes.

The astronomers of the 19th century are not of interest here as reports from that time cannot get investigated properly today. But

good that you mentioned astronomers so I can give an example, its the American Meteor Society, founded in 1911. The members

of this board monitor the night skies with advanced photografic equipment like DSLR cams with intervalometer and/or modified

video cams with object movement detection software. Means, if the equipment is activated, it is in record mode mostly all night long

as it does not require any furher action by the owner. So, the members of the AMS and a lot of other groups around the planet

"record" the skies and generate hundreds of hours per day, like on DEC04 in the USA:

AMS received 239 reports about this fireball seen over CT, DE, IN, KY, MA, MD, MI, MN, NJ, NY, OH, ON, PA, VA, VT, WI

and WV on December 4th 2014 around 01:24 (UTC).

http://www.amsmeteors.org/fireball_event/2014/3384

You can surf the whole AMS database but you will not find any report of UFOs and I can tell you why. Because these guys, so

astronomers, do know whats going up in the sky and they are not that stupid like the global bunch of e.g. YT UFO clip authors

and naive testimonial believers.

Recapitulatory, Carl Sagan and astronomers cannot have a place in yr stories at all.

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Ever wondered why Carl Sagan requested radar data from the Air Force in 1968 in regard to the Air Force space surveillance assets that were tracking objects in space that had nothing to do with spacecraft of mankind?

Ohh gee I wonder.

1968.... now what happened around 1968 (say in 1969) that might drive someone working for NASA to ask for telemetry data for NEOs?

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Should sound : "Do not waste time ... the pseudo-skeptics...

Fixed that for ya

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I already have and you have not case.

[/size]

The radar evidence depicts intelligently controlled crafts, not weather balloons nor radar 'ghost angels.' which of course, was confirmed visually by observers on the ground and in the sky. To sum it up, you have no case.

So they saw intelligently controlled airborne craft with their eyes? I thought all that was seen by a very few people were some amorphous blobs of light?

Edited by Merc14
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So they saw intelligently controlled airborne craft with their eyes? I thought all that was seen by a very few people were some amorphous blobs of light?

It is all in the maneuvers of the UFOs. In one case, an F-94 was sent to intercept the UFOs, but what happened next was mind-boggling. When an F-94 arrived in the area, a few UFOs broke ranks and raced across Washington D.C. whereas they surrounded the interceptor. The alarmed pilot then called for advice from ground controllers, but what could they do?

Here's another case.

UFO Maneuvers Around Interceptor

Barnes and his men saw another significant maneuver that night. When they vectored a pilot toward one of the lighted objects, the strange blip disappeared. Then in a few seconds it reappeared behind the plane. Barnes commented, "If it was the same one - and I think it was - that was another of those high speed vanishing acts between sweeps."

(The same maneuver was reported from Kirtland Air Force Base, New Mexico, on July 29. On this occasion a mysterious disk sighted by numerous ground observers - was seen to whip around at terrific speed behind jet planes sent up to intercept it.)

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F-94 Interceptors and Washington UFOs

Three F-94's were in the area just northeast of the radar station, so the ground controller called one of the F-94's and told the pilot to intercept the unidentified target. The F-94 pilot started climbing out of the practice area on an intercept heading that the ground controller gave him. When the F-94 was at 20,000 feet, the ground controller told the pilot to turn to the right and he would be on the target. The pilot started to bring the F-94 around and at that instant both he and the radar operator in the back seat saw that they were turning toward a large bluish white light, "many times larger than a star." In the next second or two the light "took on a reddish tinge, and slowly began to get smaller, as if it were moving away." Just then the ground controller called and said that he still had both the F-94 and the unidentified target on his scope and that the target had just made a tight 180 degree turn. The turn was too tight for a jet, and at the speed the target was traveling it would have to be a jet if it were an airplane. Now the target was heading back north. The F-94 pilot gave the engine full power and cut in the afterburner to give chase. The radar operator in the back seat got a good radar lock-on. Later he said, "It was just as solid a lock-on as you get from a B-36." The object was at 4 miles range and the F-94 was closing slowly. For thirty seconds they held the lock-on; then, just as the ground controller was telling the pilot that he was closing in, the light became brighter and the object pulled away to break the lock-on. Without breaking his transmission, the ground controller asked if the radar operator still had the lock-on because on the scope the distance between two blips had almost doubled in one sweep of the antenna. This indicated that the unknown target had almost doubled its speed in a matter of seconds.

For ten minutes the ground radar followed the chase. At times the unidentified target would slow down and the F-94 would start to close the gap, but always, just as the F-94 was getting within radar range, the target would put on a sudden burst of speed and pull away from the pursuing jet. The speed of the UFO - for by this time all concerned had decided that was what it was - couldn't be measured too accurately because its bursts of speed were of such short duration; but on several occasions the UFO traveled about 4 miles in one ten second sweep of the antenna, or about 1,400 miles an hour.

The F-94 was getting low on fuel, and the pilot had to break off the chase a minute or two before the UFO got out of range of the ground radar. The last few plots on the UFO weren't too good but it looked as if the target slowed down to 200 to 300 miles an hour as soon as the F-94 turned around.

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That same evening at 9:08 p.m., the Washington Center, still jittery, had another call from its unknown visitors. Again, the control tower and Andrews Field radar confirmed the blips. As before, the mystery objects hovered, made sharp turns, reversed, and vanished from scopes. Pilots, too, and ground observers watched the lights race off.

Of four pilots who saw the fast moving lights, one was flying a jet interceptor. This pilot, Lieutenant William L. Patterson, on seeing four lights, went after one at full throttle.

"I was at my top speed," he said on landing, "but I couldn't close in." His plane's maximum speed was better than 600 m.p.h.

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Aug. 3, 1952. Hamilton AFB, CA (BBU) Case 33 of Chop clearance list

4:15-5:30 p.m. (PDT). 2 AF pilots Capt. L. R. Hadley and Lt. D. A. Swimley, and AF Capt. W. T. Perske, saw visually and with binoculars 2 circular or spherical silvery objects 60-100 ft diameter at 12,000 and 18,000 ft drifting E to W on a 15-mile track passing overhead, darting and dogfighting at estimated 400-450 mph, the upper object dropping from 18,000 to 12,000 ft, at the end replaced by 8 more similar objects appearing in pairs in the W about 15-20 miles distant. No sound. (BB Microfilm Misc Roll 1, pp. 538-541)

Chop2let.jpg

. Edited by skyeagle409
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Well If a few thousand is a few ? Then We really need to Sell more Books on the subject :tu:

I have noticed that the U.S. government has been releasing declassified UFO documents. IMO, It is just a matter of time before the rest of the story is made public.

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I have noticed that the U.S. government has been releasing declassified UFO documents. IMO, It is just a matter of time before the rest of the story is made public.

HA!

You sweet country mouse you.

IF (and I cannot stess this "if" enough) there are genuine reports of aliens in those files, they'll NEVER see the light of day no matter how many FOI requests, how far past the 70 year rule it gets. NEVER. You've got that "relates to an ongoing military/security concern/operation" weasel out for starters.

If you're going to wait for the government to declassify "the truth" you'll be waiting until ten minutes after doomsday.

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