Siege in Sydney CBD

[Likely Guy]

You can see how people stop at the point though, what we have to do is point out a better way. Islam inspires people like this and always will, not matter if the family of Muslims who cannot think like this exist in abundance, a significant portion insists on taking the violent verses literally and will hurt people. Whilst a person does not have to be evil to have faith is Islam, Islam will always inspire evil people, it is worded to do so. Maybe it does not get translated as well as it might, I do not know, but I do know it has shown itself to be of no value to the globe as a whole whatsoever, and needs to be relationally removed from it's exalted position, and made accountable for what it claims, and what it does.

Moderate Muslims might pray peacefully all day long, but history has shown us with 911 that it takes a very small group of determined to make a serious difference. In the modern world we should not have people thinking an imaginary being is going to make it all better if you kill everyone. Personally, I do not think it fair to place the larger majority of Australians in real danger and fear so that a minority group can worship an imaginary being.

From what gather you're mad at Islam and every other religion that might inspire radicals. But, there are radicals that espouse no religion. What about them?

[Yamato]

Welcome aboard the SS Endless Terrorism. Now grab that Middle East foreign policy by the horns and let's get back to work! Besides, going it alone really stinks you guys. We need Australia in the game. For the record, I didn't even use the crystal ball to predict that this breed of terrorism was coming to your shores. All I had to do was understand the cause and effect.

Frankly, what does anyone care if Iraq is run by a secular dictator like Saddam Hussein and his iron fist on rebellion, or a religious nutter faction like ISIS that's just going to continue killing and getting killed by half the locals there who don't want them there. As an individual in America, I wouldn't buy a drip of oil from either damned one of them. But Lo, we've got all these global/corporate/political/strategic interests thus the eternal conflict, this religious nuttery just falls right into the profit scheme that precedes it. 23 years of war in Iraq and counting and what a bloody disaster. How many times do our friends over there wind up being worse than the enemies we had that preceded them. If we can't collectively figure this failure out by now all I can say is, stupid is as stupid does.

If you want the nightmare to end, stop following US policy. It will eat you up like a cancer. It will ruin your freedom and prosperity. Hello Australia. We (Americans) are fools in what we're doing in the Middle East. We don't know what in God's Green Hell we're doing. We don't know the good guys from the bad guys. We have no clue how to achieve victory and end this war, we only know how to serve our masters, the narrow special interests whose palms we grease who would like nothing more than for this war to continue.

We don't need the dirty oil anymore and we shouldn't want it. If some store has a bad rep, I don't shop there anymore. Why doesn't western government understand such simple logic? Stop telling me who my friends are and stop forcing me to buy products from places I have no interest in. Folks, you and I and the rest of the marketplace are a lot more intelligent than these bumbling bureaucrats in their marble halls. If you want the nightmare to end you have to use your best brains, not your biggest caveman clubs.

Albert Einstein offers some additional advice in my signature below.

[Gunn]

You can see how people stop at the point though, what we have to do is point out a better way. Islam inspires people like this and always will, not matter if the family of Muslims who cannot think like this exist in abundance, a significant portion insists on taking the violent verses literally and will hurt people. Whilst a person does not have to be evil to have faith is Islam, Islam will always inspire evil people, it is worded to do so. Maybe it does not get translated as well as it might, I do not know, but I do know it has shown itself to be of no value to the globe as a whole whatsoever, and needs to be relationally removed from it's exalted position, and made accountable for what it claims, and what it does.

Moderate Muslims might pray peacefully all day long, but history has shown us with 911 that it takes a very small group of determined to make a serious difference. In the modern world we should not have people thinking an imaginary being is going to make it all better if you kill everyone. Personally, I do not think it fair to place the larger majority of Australians in real danger and fear so that a minority group can worship an imaginary being.

I can understand where you're coming from, Psyche101. I've got a few Australian friends over there that I'm worried about now because of this event and though I'm not atheist, I don't particular care for organized religion either. But at the same time, I wouldn't want to respond with excessive restrictions on somebody's beliefs just because of a few mental extremist idiots.

But I got to ask; What is it you're wanting to do with the people who have religious beliefs in your country? Maybe just simple education and let it go at that, I hope?

[pallidin]

BREAKING NEWS: Hostage taker in Sydney has contacted 3 media outlets and demanded 2 things:

1) ISIS flag

2) Phone call with Australian Prime Minister

Source: http://www.cnn.com/

[pallidin]

What I find extremely disturbing about this latest news release, is that the previous thwarted plot to behead an Australian was reported to say that an ISIS flag would be draped over the victims beheaded body.

The hostage taker has both a shotgun and a machete. Why would he have a machete if not to behead?

This is most disturbing to me.

Of course, hopefully that will not happen.

[pallidin]

An armed man holding people hostage in a Martin Place cafe has reportedly told hostages he has planted four bombs.

He said two bombs are in the cafe and the others are elsewhere in the CBD, Network Ten reports.

He also demanded delivery of an Islamic State flag and a conversation with Prime Minister Tony Abbott.

Source: http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2014/12/15/armed-man-makes-demands-at-sydney-siege.html

Hopefully there are no bombs.

[Space Commander Travis]

when are you guys going to realize that we are at war with all of islam, not just a few.

So you're at war with every single one of the people listed here? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

Well, good luck.

[psyche101]

From what gather you're mad at Islam and every other religion that might inspire radicals. But, there are radicals that espouse no religion. What about them?

Well mad? I am not sure that is the right term, I am over religion, I see it hurt people and I see a matured Western World struggling to move away from these archaic needs but still held to them out of sheer stubbornness. So many aspects of every Bible have been proven wrong, and there is just no reason to believe in an omnipotent being who is really quite demanding and cruel in many ways. Religion has proven itself to be biased, racist, misogynist and dishonest. I think it's time it was made accountable for the bad things it brings into this world. We should be embracing the 21st century, not wallowing in the 11th. Perhaps disheartened is more what I feel.

[taniwha]

Play with fire your gonna get burned.

[Obviousman]

Sooooo - how long before the first CT nutter claims this is a "false flag" operation?

Place yer bets! Place yer bets!

[psyche101]

Welcome aboard the SS Endless Terrorism. Now grab that Middle East foreign policy by the horns and let's get back to work! Besides, going it alone really stinks you guys. We need Australia in the game. For the record, I didn't even use the crystal ball to predict that this breed of terrorism was coming to your shores. All I had to do was understand the cause and effect.

Frankly, what does anyone care if Iraq is run by a secular dictator like Saddam Hussein and his iron fist on rebellion, or a religious nutter faction like ISIS that's just going to continue killing and getting killed by half the locals there who don't want them there. As an individual in America, I wouldn't buy a drip of oil from either damned one of them. But Lo, we've got all these global/corporate/political/strategic interests thus the eternal conflict, this religious nuttery just falls right into the profit scheme that precedes it. 23 years of war in Iraq and counting and what a bloody disaster. How many times do our friends over there wind up being worse than the enemies we had that preceded them. If we can't collectively figure this failure out by now all I can say is, stupid is as stupid does.

If you want the nightmare to end, stop following US policy. It will eat you up like a cancer. It will ruin your freedom and prosperity. Hello Australia. We (Americans) are fools in what we're doing in the Middle East. We don't know what in God's Green Hell we're doing. We don't know the good guys from the bad guys. We have no clue how to achieve victory and end this war, we only know how to serve our masters, the narrow special interests whose palms we grease who would like nothing more than for this war to continue.

We don't need the dirty oil anymore and we shouldn't want it. If some store has a bad rep, I don't shop there anymore. Why doesn't western government understand such simple logic? Stop telling me who my friends are and stop forcing me to buy products from places I have no interest in. Folks, you and I and the rest of the marketplace are a lot more intelligent than these bumbling bureaucrats in their marble halls. If you want the nightmare to end you have to use your best brains, not your biggest caveman clubs.

Albert Einstein offers some additional advice in my signature below.

It's been here for a while, people voicing concerns over terrorism and radicalisation of youth are considered hysterical by too many for the sake of political correctness. I just think life is more important than political correctness. There have been several very serious raids on Islamic Radicals here this year.

[Moon Gazer]

Very scary situation, my thoughts go out to the hostages and their families.

[taniwha]

Religion doesnt kill people, people kill people.

[psyche101]

I can understand where you're coming from, Psyche101. I've got a few Australian friends over there that I'm worried about now because of this event and though I'm not atheist, I don't particular care for organized religion either. But at the same time, I wouldn't want to respond with excessive restrictions on somebody's beliefs just because of a few mental extremist idiots.

But I got to ask; What is it you're wanting to do with the people who have religious beliefs in your country? Maybe just simple education and let it go at that, I hope?

Pretty much, but not a simple education. A decent one that involves generations, I do not think this mess can be cleared up in a matter of months, I think this is something the world needs to look at as a whole, and educate people as to what science can tell us, and what religion can tell us, and put the two together. Any educated mind really ought to be able to make an informed decision from there.

This is concerning yes, only a few months ago just up the road from where I am working an Islamic Bookstore was raided and contained many weapons and the ability to make bombs. It's here, and needs to be addressed. Radicalisation of youth is a real problem that is just being swept under the carpet.

Rather than eradicate the beliefs, I think perspective is a better option. I have no desire to remove or alter history, we need it to learn from. The number of extremists is well played down I am quite sure after seeing just how many people turned up in support of the Bali Bombers. That support for such a vicious and vile act made me reconsider the person next to me and stole a piece of my faith in humanity.

[psyche101]

What I find extremely disturbing about this latest news release, is that the previous thwarted plot to behead an Australian was reported to say that an ISIS flag would be draped over the victims beheaded body.

The hostage taker has both a shotgun and a machete. Why would he have a machete if not to behead?

This is most disturbing to me.

Of course, hopefully that will not happen.

That was the original plan which was foiled.

The only point they are making is what vile filthy animals they are.

[psyche101]

An armed man holding people hostage in a Martin Place cafe has reportedly told hostages he has planted four bombs.

He said two bombs are in the cafe and the others are elsewhere in the CBD, Network Ten reports.

He also demanded delivery of an Islamic State flag and a conversation with Prime Minister Tony Abbott.

Source: http://www.skynews.c...dney-siege.html

Hopefully there are no bombs.

I mentioned the bombs earlier, so much for keep calm...........

Sooooo - how long before the first CT nutter claims this is a "false flag" operation?

Place yer bets! Place yer bets!

Not as big down here. I reckon the first CT will come from the states!!

Anyone tuned into Alex Jones on this yet?

[psyche101]

Religion doesnt kill people, people kill people.

I do believe religion inspires people to misuse it to their own ends and in that way it does kill people.

I mean this nasty stuff is pretty much afterlife driven hey. Suicide bombers and all that.

[taniwha]

I do believe religion inspires people to misuse it to their own ends and in that way it does kill people.

I mean this nasty stuff is pretty much afterlife driven hey. Suicide bombers and all that.

Who knows. Murder is a messy business whether you believe in an afterlife or not.

[Space Commander Travis]

I do believe religion inspires people to misuse it to their own ends and in that way it does kill people.

I mean this nasty stuff is pretty much afterlife driven hey. Suicide bombers and all that.

And never politics? This couldn't have anything to do with politics, such as one country going with whatever Big Powerful countries do so they remain in the good books of the powerful nation? It's entirely due to completely incomprehensible irrationality? Resorting that default position is really just a way of hiding one's head in the sand and pretending that the things that a country does don't make any difference, and any reactions that it might provoke are entirely due to completely incomprehensible fanaticism.

[+Link of Hyrule]

Sooooo - how long before the first CT nutter claims this is a "false flag" operation?

Place yer bets! Place yer bets!

. My brother already said this this morning (less than an hour after it happened). I wasn't there to hear him and won't see him tomorrow so I can't say how serious he was but my friend who spoke to himsaid he was pretty serious and that in the current climate is a valid theory.

My brother isn't known for buying into CT ideas and my guess is he's just harmlessly speculating because I call such an idea "a load of dingoes kidneys".

[Lilly]

Religion doesnt kill people, people kill people.

Yeah, but radical religion certainly does influence people to kill people.

[Obviousman]

I said it wouldn't take long!

https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?14414-Sydney-Hostage-Siege-Unfolding

[Space Commander Travis]

Yeah, but radical religion certainly does influence people to kill people.

So does radical politics, and so does plain stupid politics. So too can psychological reasons unique to the individual. Religion can be a very handy shorthand to explain all kinds of behaviors (or rather provide an excuse for not explaining them, since why should we need to bother if we can just describe it all as religious fanaticism?).

[taniwha]

Yeah, but radical religion certainly does influence people to kill people.

Kill or be killed I guess.

[+Link of Hyrule]

Yeah, but radical religion certainly does influence people to kill people.

And how did racial religion get to influence them? Was it not people who told it to them. Almost always a senior religious person influencing a young person to kill themselves (they won't kill themselves, they'll just influence the young to do it).

Religion is a tool, how it is used by people is what makes it bad or good.