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Peter B

Siege in Sydney CBD

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taniwha

And how did racial religion get to influence them? Was it not people who told it to them. Almost always a senior religious person influencing a young person to kill themselves (they won't kill themselves, they'll just influence the young to do it).

Religion is a tool, how it is used by people is what makes it bad or good.

Am I the only one old enough to remember Gallipoli?

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Space Commander Travis

Am I the only one old enough to remember Gallipoli?

Crikey, you must be, that was 1915.
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libstaK

I am outraged that this is happening and feel very deeply for the hostages and their families and friends.

Having said that, this is now very clearly a lone wolf attack and pretty amateur and poorly planned one at that. The doofus brain took the wrong flag with him and then had the gall to ask for a proper ISIS flag. Yeah no worries mate, the police will just pop down to the local Target and get one for you pronto so you can then behead a hostage and drape it over their body - not. Or alternatively - is he expecting an actual ISIS affiliate to come forward and say "here ya go mate, borrow mine"?

This man is clearly deranged but no less dangerous for that - although I am heartened that 5 hostages have managed to escape, I think he might be losing control of the situation and I sincerely hope the information the escaped hostages provide police help put an end to this.

I am also heartened by the 40 muslims groups and counting that have publically stepped up and condemned this action, along with Australia's grand mufti who is on record as saying this man has no moral standing and full force of the law needs to be applied to him, he does not in part or full represent Islam at all.

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libstaK

I have been watching this on and off for most of the day and I now want to also say I am so proud of our media and police in the handling of this matter.

Apparently the gunman has had the hostages call various radio stations and then later in the day various television stations in an attempt to spread his message. He is also now having hostages access their facebook and post messages there. So far the media and police are doing a very good job at not airing his messages and propaganda on any media, thwarting his efforts to self advertise and further his egoic claims. I am so proud of the maturity of everyone involved in resolving this, he is in a self defeating position because we as a nation are uniting in our efforts to thwart him at every turn.

Edited by libstaK
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Timmeh

Having said that, this is now very clearly a lone wolf attack and pretty amateur and poorly planned one at that. The doofus brain took the wrong flag with him and then had the gall to ask for a proper ISIS flag. Yeah no worries mate, the police will just pop down to the local Target and get one for you pronto so you can then behead a hostage and drape it over their body - not. Or alternatively - is he expecting an actual ISIS affiliate to come forward and say "here ya go mate, borrow mine"?

I'm not entirely sure he is doing this to scare Australians, sure it is amateurish but he is still getting us angry and when people get angry we lash out. When you think about it is the Australian Muslim community that would normally cop the brunt of retaliation for this kind of act and that retaliation could be used as a rallying call to those normally peaceful Muslims to join the extremist ranks. Fortunately the Muslim community is acting in the best way possible by condemning this guy strait of the bat which is a step in the right direction in my opinion.

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libstaK

I'm not entirely sure he is doing this to scare Australians, sure it is amateurish but he is still getting us angry and when people get angry we lash out. When you think about it is the Australian Muslim community that would normally cop the brunt of retaliation for this kind of act and that retaliation could be used as a rallying call to those normally peaceful Muslims to join the extremist ranks. Fortunately the Muslim community is acting in the best way possible by condemning this guy strait of the bat which is a step in the right direction in my opinion.

Yes the Australian Muslim community has been very vocal in it's condemnation and that condemnation has received good airtime. This is the kind of thing we need more of, these people need to feel isolated from their own communities for their criminal actions and shunned roundly by their own religion.

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libstaK

Incidentally, this started at 930am Sydney time. I would estimate that the gunman would have risen early for prayer etc before coming into Sydney - let's say 6am as his waking time.

It is now 1249am the next day, therefore he has been awake for at least 19 hours so far and he is 49 years old and working alone with at least 15 hostages.

He would have spent the entire day in tension as well.

I would expect, even with adrenaline and fitness he would be feeling fatigued by now and I don't see him remaining in control of the situation beyond another day. I have some hope and am praying these are realities that will assist police in ending this without fatalities.

All prayers are welcome for the hostages and law enforcement involved in this.

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danielost

I have been watching this on and off for most of the day and I now want to also say I am so proud of our media and police in the handling of this matter.

Apparently the gunman has had the hostages call various radio stations and then later in the day various television stations in an attempt to spread his message. He is also now having hostages access their facebook and post messages there. So far the media and police are doing a very good job at not airing his messages and propaganda on any media, thwarting his efforts to self advertise and further his egoic claims. I am so proud of the maturity of everyone involved in resolving this, he is in a self defeating position because we as a nation are uniting in our efforts to thwart him at every turn.

this won't last. some station will want to one up everyone else and air it.

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danielost

So you're at war with every single one of the people listed here? http://en.wikipedia....slam_by_country

Well, good luck.

i don't have to be at war with anyone. they just have to be at war with the west. they hate america because it stands for freedom. a foreign concept to them

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Space Commander Travis

I am outraged that this is happening and feel very deeply for the hostages and their families and friends.

Having said that, this is now very clearly a lone wolf attack and pretty amateur and poorly planned one at that. The doofus brain took the wrong flag with him and then had the gall to ask for a proper ISIS flag. Yeah no worries mate, the police will just pop down to the local Target and get one for you pronto so you can then behead a hostage and drape it over their body - not. Or alternatively - is he expecting an actual ISIS affiliate to come forward and say "here ya go mate, borrow mine"?

I think you've hit on it there. It's obviously a sting operation to winkle out anyone who has an ISIT flag. :yes:
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Space Commander Travis

i don't have to be at war with anyone. they just have to be at war with the west. they hate america because it stands for freedom. a foreign concept to them

oh my lord, don't tell me you also believed everything that your President told you were the reasons for invading Iraq.
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Space Commander Travis

I'm not entirely sure he is doing this to scare Australians, sure it is amateurish but he is still getting us angry and when people get angry we lash out. When you think about it is the Australian Muslim community that would normally cop the brunt of retaliation for this kind of act and that retaliation could be used as a rallying call to those normally peaceful Muslims to join the extremist ranks. Fortunately the Muslim community is acting in the best way possible by condemning this guy strait of the bat which is a step in the right direction in my opinion.

Further fuel to the false Flag theory ..... :yes:

(if he'd remembered to bring it, of course :blush: )

Edited by Valdemar the Great

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Moon Gazer

Apparently the police now know the identity of the man.

"Police say they believe the man who seized hostages is Man Haron Monis - an Iranian-born cleric who has been granted asylum in Australia."

From BBC website

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Sir Smoke aLot

Apparently the police now know the identity of the man.

"Police say they believe the man who seized hostages is Man Haron Monis - an Iranian-born cleric who has been granted asylum in Australia."

From BBC website

Maybe it is time for people ( mainly those fromm security agencies but believers too, if they believe at all that is ) to wake up and deny criminals a chance to preach religion or be affiliated with it in any way. History of this lunatic is... Just crazy, if security agencies were working as they should this would have been prevented. From short reading of wikipedia i see that idiot had connections with murder and sexual abuse, which are not resolved to this day.

I hope that no one will get injured and this get to end very soon. Actually, i hope this idiot gets shot by police, he is doing bad to a country that gave him chance to make a new life. Is there worse then that?

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seeder

Police storm the cafe, more hostages are out...this follows a BANG...shots fired..

.

Edited by seeder
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libstaK

I think you've hit on it there. It's obviously a sting operation to winkle out anyone who has an ISIT flag. :yes:

Ha Ha - hmmm no.

It's over, a multiple of shots, at least twenty have been fired, hostages have run out of the cafe, obviously running for their lives and the police and bomb squad have now moved in, now directly followed by paramedics and at least four stretchers with medical equipment have rushed directly into the cafe.

What has happened is still being sorted thru but at least one hostage has been carried out by two rescue team with blood running down her leg.

Edit to add: better footage has shown dozens of gun shots and several stun grenades have been thrown into the cafe.

There is some hope that the count is that most of the hostages have escaped, I am praying for only one single casualty out of all that.

Edited by libstaK

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libstaK

One police officer has been seen with blood streaming from his head but walking and the breaking news is that the siege is officially over. More to come.

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seeder

Ive been watching the ABC news via the BBC...but has it been established if the gunman is dead or not?

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libstaK

Skynews is reporting that it understands one of the two known fatalities is the gunman but a statement from police is due very shortly.

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Space Commander Travis

The PM speaks on Sydney siege

David Cameron told LBC this afternoon the Sydney siege was "reminder of the threat we face and the need to be vigilant".

"It demonstrates the challenge we face of Islamist extremism all over the world.

"This is on the other side of the world but it is the sort of thing that could just as well happen here in the UK or in Europe we very much stand with the Australians at their time of need," he said.

"Their time of need"? What do they need from you, mr. C? A helping of pointless Churchillian rhetoric?

Edited by Valdemar the Great

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seeder

Hostage taker was killed, as was one other. (hostage no doubt).

.

Edited by seeder

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seeder

He was charged with accessory in the murder of his ex-wife - who was allegedly stabbed and set on fire on a flight of stairs in her western Sydney apartment block

He was also arrested for the sexual assault of a 27-year-old woman in 2002 in April this year after luring her to his clinic following claims he was as 'spiritual healer'

Monis was slapped with an additional 40 charges in October after more victims to come forward

Monis received 300 community service hours for sending hate mail to the families of Australian dead soldiers

The seige follows an unsuccessful attempt to have these charges overturned in the High Court on Friday

Nice guy eh?

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freetoroam

when are you guys going to realize that we are at war with all of islam, not just a few.

i am not religious, hence I am not at war with anyone....BUT as a peaceful non religious person, I am sick and tired of hearing excuses for those who kill in the name of their god, and the major religions have had their own fare share of mass murder because of this:

But religious violence can take on a particularly intense and ruthless character, if the objects of that violence are seen as blaspheming or insulting God, as the enemies of God or God's way narrowly conceived

http://www.scu.edu/e...ry/holywar.html

Our governments have allowed the islamic fundamentalists to flourish in the western world. Many warnings were given as to what was happening behind some of the closed doors at the mosques, but this did not mean it was all muslims...many did not know anything about what was happening, although many others did. But the silence was set, and they were not going to tell the western authorities about what they feared, certainly not in the early days anyway. Thankfully, this is changing.

We know the fundamentalists are out there, they have always been out there! It just baffles me why they were not stopped at the start to flourish in the west ...maybe the human rights brigade has something to do with this. Maybe western governments trading with islamics leaders had a lot to do with this? Maybe they were secretive enough to have not been spotted in time?

It is not all muslims, just as the crusades where not all christians. History has not changed much, the ammo they use have got better and the fundamentalist now have a "global" ticket.

I am not at war against islam, but there are a select few who can not move on from their past behaviors due to their religion.

An Islamic term, Jihad is a religious duty of Muslims. In Arabic, the word jihād is a noun meaning "struggle." Jihad appears frequently in the Qur'an and is sometimes used in the nonmilitary sense. A person engaged in jihad is called a mujahid; the plural is mujahideen. When a violent act is intended, the Qur'an used the term "Qattal" meaning to engage in killing/violence.

ANY religious book which engages in the act of violence should be BANNED along with its practices in the countries which do not agree with it.....our world is filled with nutters of all religious and if even slightly mentally unstable, it is not worth the risk of having these words in a book in their hands.

I am not sure how this will ever be stopped, as history and today shows us, all religions are not short on people who will kill in the name of their "god" and their beliefs. We just seem to have history constantly repeating itself, time after time.

Edited by freetoroam
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President-Elect Acidhead

Just curious... this is a question for the anti religious extremists.

How would you go about banning the Quran?

Best of luck with that!

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freetoroam

Just curious... this is a question for the anti religious extremists.

How would you go about banning the Quran?

Best of luck with that!

Anti religious WHAT?

I have no problem with peoples religion, until they start killing innocent people because of their "other beliefs"....

The koran will never be banned, but the qattal bit needs to be seriously looked over if people want to keep the book in a country which does not agree with violence, BUT, I do not think there are many countries (no matter what their religion) which will not resort to violence when their government "warrents" it......its a sad world!

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