Male privilege a myth?

[Rut Roh]

I linked some papers in a previous post -- it's been confirmed many times over the years. There are a few games (Empire) that are 90% male, but for almost everything else, the players are about equal. Many women don't voice chat -- when I'm on Vent, I usually just keep quiet as the guys brag about various things.

It's not about how the characters look -- it's about what clothing they are given to wear.

I personally think the gaming industry is finally starting to feel the presence of women as a standard for future sales and not just a fad. IMO, when gamers apply enough pressure through sales and feedback, then and only then, you will see change in the industry as a whole. If your stats are correct, this will be a steadily changing formula that game designers will have no choice but to adopt. Market pressure.

Well, unless a large portion of women gamers decide that they like running around with a scantily clad heroine and kickin the butts of the overly masculine men, just to humiliate them that much more... hehe

[Michelle]

I make light of the situation of males having the advantage, but being in a male dominated profession, it's how I deal with it. Most of the time I let the arrogant, asshats make total fools of themselves by the fact I know what I'm talking about and doing. The genuinely sweet, older, protective men...who wouldn't want their daughters and grand-daughters doing this kind of work, being subjected to the abuse of the industry, I let them take up for me.

Sometimes it's a toss up and you have to play it by ear.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Michelle

[Yamato]

It's a double standard if the models for women aren't physically attractive.

But male and female characters are equally attractive and have equally ripped bodies. It's just the clothing that isn't equal.

I see what you're saying and I agree based on the pictures. The game designers should put as much work into the clothing/skins/armor for female characters as male. Maybe more, and I think that would be even better for business.

But sex sells too. If there wasn't demand for the sexy skivvies why would so many games keep churning them out? Males were sometimes wearing dresses i remember, and I'm not talking about kilts. Because it was more humiliating being looted by a guy in a pink dress than one in full plate +4, right?

[spartan max2]

I know it sounds like im just trying to disagree and I think the amount may be higher then I thought but I do think the 40% is highly misleading(alot of the U.S articles claimed as high as 48%) . Do to the fact of mobile devices and apps.

Like angry birds and candy crush. I tried in vain to find the original study but couldent .

Here is a article talking about a similar one the ESA did.

http://www.independe...en-9736411.html

It came up with the same results

"A major study carried out by independent research agency Populus for the Internet Advertising Bureau found that 52% of people who have played some form of video game in the last six months were female, up from 49% three years ago and pushing women into the majority."

But if you look: Smartphone and tablet apps have had a huge impact in recent years and turned us into a nation of gamers, with 33.5 million Britons now engaging with gaming – 69% of the population. (they are defining candy crush apps as gamers)

So I still say that the 40% /48% number and above is inaccurate.

Which also explains why in the ESA one they count the average gamer as 37 years old. And the majority of the women gamers being above 18. They even said one third of them where above 45 and states puzzle and triva games where their favorite

Edited December 17, 2014 by spartan max2

[spartan max2]

Personal experience for everyone will probably show the 40-48 percent is only because they count apps and Facebook

Moral of the story games are not showing any "male privilege". It just marketing. The same way 50 shades of grey isn't showing any privilege it's just going after the target audience.

Edited December 17, 2014 by spartan max2

[Careful_perspective]

As a girl who plays world of Warcraft, I just want to say it freaks me out when I see my female goblin in sexy armor. If just doesnt look right.

[Yamato]

Kinda hot, actually. She's got some really good moves there

Her clothes aren't bad at least she's wearing pants right?

[Careful_perspective]

Kinda hot, actually. She's got some really good moves there

Her clothes aren't bad at least she's wearing pants right?

Yes!!!! Look at that dance! Goblins are the best.

[Kenemet]

I see what you're saying and I agree based on the pictures. The game designers should put as much work into the clothing/skins/armor for female characters as male. Maybe more, and I think that would be even better for business.

But sex sells too. If there wasn't demand for the sexy skivvies why would so many games keep churning them out? Males were sometimes wearing dresses i remember, and I'm not talking about kilts. Because it was more humiliating being looted by a guy in a pink dress than one in full plate +4, right?

But who is the sex selling to? And what is it selling?

In general, the images seem to appeal to men (or lesbians.)

[Beefers]

... the reality that women haven't just achieved parity with men but have overtaken them in almost every conceivable respect. What inequalities remain are the result of women's choices, say respectable feminist academics such as Christina Hoff Sommers, not structural biases.

This. Living in a western country, I would have much rather been born a girl than a boy as far as privileges go.

[Yamato]

But who is the sex selling to? And what is it selling?

In general, the images seem to appeal to men (or lesbians.)

Selling to the market, satisficing the demand. I think females in the gaming population was pushing 40% 10 years ago so I can believe that now, so I believe that. The bad armor would be selling to all of the males, so that's 60% of the market, plus I would guess more than half of the females, another 20+%. So you'd be in the remaining 10-20%, a percentage of which would actually be vocal in complaining about it.

Here's an idea that would make everyone happy: Custom clothing. Why don't games have that yet? Why don't they release little editors where players can make whatever they want? I had high expectations that games would evolve so much beyond what I used to love. And they've really gone downhill other than graphically and here even graphically we've got issues that we never did 10 years ago. Do what we did, just put on some pants! Doesn't your planet have tailors that can sew you something up large enough to fit over your armor?

I think that the loudmouths ruined the game I used to play. The world was hard those first few years. The only rule was there were no rules. You had to survive in the game's environment and there were a million ways not to do it. You could attack anyone or anything at any time for any reason. It had a fully developed market driven economy, supply and demand for every resource and the players fully responsible for it. If you died, anyone could loot you. Even nice people trying to help would flag themselves to be killed justly by anyone else just for looting your corpse and holding your stuff somewhere for you till you got back. But then they split the universe up into two worlds, and half the game became wheelchair accessible, where you couldn't attack anyone, only guild members could loot, the GMs started dumping commodities on the market so people would stop whining about out-of-stock supply disruptions. Taking over the mage guild and cornering the reagants so you'd have to buy them off my vendor at double the price was another way of survival. I totally respected the players who took matters into their own hands and did something about it. I had no respect for the players who whined to government and ruined the game. Eventually you couldn't even break into other players' houses anymore, any home or business owner could simply say "I ban thee" and remove any unwanted guest instantly. So the whiners who were victims of home invasion got their welfare, but it only caused other problems. Old school, we had to hire security! And good security wasn't cheap. Half the time I went through the guildhall I'd speak to these guards and they wouldn't be responsive, away from their keyboards fixing a sandwich or whatever. I always had to wonder what I was paying them for...anyway the point is the game masters destroyed the fun of the game. It was sad seeing it die a slow death like that, but art mirrors reality the way reality mirrors art.

Nothing funner than my g/f calling me that she was being attacked in the woods while hunting deer for hides. I could log in, find the guy that attacked her, kill him, loot him, log off and be back to my homework in 20 minutes or less. If you were a most powerful mage, you could do a resurrection, or almost as difficult to pull off, gate them back to town where they can at least get to a bank or an inn. And help them retrieve or replace their belongings. People REALLY appreciated that. I mean how many damsels in distress are we going to have an opportunity to save in the real world? It created a sense of community, of bonding, of common purpose, values, morals etc. Now games are so stripped down of all of their soul, players only care about being level 55 and having the biggest sword in the game. BORING, but gender has nothing to do with it. It's more politics, whiny liberals really.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Yamato

[CrimsonKing]

I think it is a sad sign of the times we live in when some people are dieing for their rights and what they believe in while living in desperate circumstances,yet here in the good ol US of A we have the time on our hands to moan and complain about what ones virtual character wears in a video game...God bless Murica

[Yamato]

I think it is a sad sign of the times we live in when some people are dieing for their rights and what they believe in while living in desperate circumstances,yet here in the good ol US of A we have the time on our hands to moan and complain about what ones virtual character wears in a video game...God bless Murica

I agree it's silly, but "male privilege" is a silly topic already. That's a double edged sword though CK, because you can't kill people in the real world, but you can do it virtually and see them respond as if you really killed them, that is entertainment value. Big bang for the buck! To me it's worth talking about because I see it as how our entertainment evolves. I see it as a stripped-down dry bones skeleton of its former self. Does this not mirror reality? Are we holding up the moral/ethical torch for the rest of the world here with all our foreign shenanigans? And domestically now that the chickens are coming home to roost? How much longer must our sheeple be groped for the policy? I think if we change our policy we can be done with the groping in 10 years or less.

[CrimsonKing]

All points well made Yam,it just drives me a bit mad how people complain about everything that isnt their way.For some reason when things arent picture perfect to their views then all of a sudden they have been "deprived" or wronged.

Life is not fair,but it is what one makes of it...

[Yamato]

As for male privilege, the Women's Lib movement was needed back in the day. They were a powerful force at squaring the table for women. Another civil victory that some politician stood up on a podium and took credit for.

Times have changed and it looks like an assault on liberty across the gender lines today. Spartan max2, are internal checkpoints, radiation and gropings the new norm of our civilization with no end in sight? Or can we start to question what we're doing, the results we're achieving, the money we're spending, and the jeopardy we're creating?

Question for all: Is our liberty not being eroded by those who would protect us? What can or should we do about it?

[Dark_Grey]

Question for all: Is our liberty not being eroded by those who would protect us? What can or should we do about it?

Aside from a real, armed resistance? Not a whole lot. Those in power have had enough time to secure that power come hell or high water. The average man I think is too far removed from the machine that governs his life. Especially with the Intelligence Authorization Act (a formality to legalize the data collection they've already been doing). All data is now held for up to 5 years, encrypted data will be held indefinitely. Mind your P's and Q's cause Big Brother is literally watching..

[CrimsonKing]

What can or should we do?Im not sure yam,i would say vote the career politicians out as you mentioned change the policy...I just think far to many people are asleep at the wheel and we are heading for a cliff if we dont all wake up soon...

[spartan max2]

As for male privilege, the Women's Lib movement was needed back in the day. They were a powerful force at squaring the table for women. Another civil victory that some politician stood up on a podium and took credit for.

Times have changed and it looks like an assault on liberty across the gender lines today. Spartan max2, are internal checkpoints, radiation and gropings the new norm of our civilization with no end in sight? Or can we start to question what we're doing, the results we're achieving, the money we're spending, and the jeopardy we're creating?

Question for all: Is our liberty not being eroded by those who would protect us? What can or should we do about it?

I dont quite understand the first question?

but here is my view on the bolded part

Honestly I have no clue what to do about it. Most of the population seems like they support it or just plain apathetic, mostly apathetic. Which is why the candidates do what they do.

Edited December 17, 2014 by spartan max2

[Yamato]

Based on trends, I'm not confident we can delegate this task to or through our politicians.

[Yamato]

Here is my view on the bolded part

Honestly I have no clue what to do about it. Most of the population seems like they support it or just plain apathetic, mostly apathetic. Which is why the candidates do what they do.

Nice!

[spartan max2]

I would just go with a philosophical approach, peoples philosophy normally changes before laws do. Just get people to respect the INDIVIDUALS rights and freedom to do as the person chooses. Then the rest will come.

P.S as long as people are comfortable with their iphones and tv's then no one will see a reason to care. luxury.

Edited December 17, 2014 by spartan max2

[Careful_perspective]

What can or should we do?Im not sure yam,i would say vote the career politicians out as you mentioned change the policy...I just think far to many people are asleep at the wheel and we are heading for a cliff if we dont all wake up soon...

I disagree. As I stated in the post from last night that you were part of Crimson, I don't think politicians are any more corrupt than they are previously in human history. I can't even begin to imagine all the shady things that were done in the past. And we will probably never know the half of it because there wasn't as many reliable ways of keeping track of information.

I don't think the American public is sleeping at the wheel anymore than they were 50 or 100 or 150 years ago.

Consider this, we now have the ability to google ANY politician and see their entire life's history. Now imagine yourself in 1830, it would be incredibly difficult to do that now. Politicians are forced to be more transparent now than they have ever been because all it takes is one person recording you with their iPhone for EVERYTHING to change.

I mean, look at this forum, thousands of educated people have civil discussions about politicians and social issues with the ability to cross reference sources and give examples. That's completley unique in human history.

So yeah, maybe politicians seem scummy but that's just because we have the ability to truly see people for how they are now.

[spartan max2]

I disagree. As I stated in the post from last night that you were part of Crimson, I don't think politicians are any more corrupt than they are previously in human history. I can't even begin to imagine all the shady things that were done in the past. And we will probably never know the half of it because there wasn't as many reliable ways of keeping track of information.

I don't think the American public is sleeping at the wheel anymore than they were 50 or 100 or 150 years ago.

Consider this, we now have the ability to google ANY politician and see their entire life's history. Now imagine yourself in 1830, it would be incredibly difficult to do that now. Politicians are forced to be more transparent now than they have ever been because all it takes is one person recording you with their iPhone for EVERYTHING to change.

I mean, look at this forum, thousands of educated people have civil discussions about politicians and social issues with the ability to cross reference sources and give examples. That's completley unique in human history.

So yeah, maybe politicians seem scummy but that's just because we have the ability to truly see people for how they are now.

I totally agree.

Politicians and people have always mostly been the same( as people can see by reading almost any history book). Its not all doom and gloom. I actually think the future looks bright

Edited December 17, 2014 by spartan max2

[CrimsonKing]

I agree in a sense WB its not that politicians are any more slimey today than they were in the past,its just that yes many people have the ability to be informed at their fingertips.Having knowledge and the ability to put it to use are two different things...

The vast majority are pacified by their own greed and self concern screw the good of the people selfishness reigns over the majority.

[CrimsonKing]

I actually found your last post a bit ironic spartan,you post that picture of the bill of rights then you say the future looks bright?...Cant have it both ways,either you see we have some bigtime problems or you dont...