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France: Hizbullah TV allowed to stay on air


Erikl
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John Stuart Mill (1806-1873).....got him right here, "Why Freedom Pays?"....didn't study him in philosophy.

I will read what he has to say. Do you think he is relevant today_ with this new form of terrorism?

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Integration is not something that is reguired only from immigrants, it's the social-environment's duty as a whole. Integration has to be made possible, since the goal is multiculturalism and not assimilation. We can't think that bad bad immigrants, if you don't adapt, go home. we also have to take a look at the mirror and ask ourselves did they have a chance to adapt in a first place.

Edited by CatAstrofix
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I will read what he has to say. Do you think he is relevant today_ with this new form of terrorism?

He's a founding father of social science, so yes, his views still count, he effectively defined Liberalism. If we take away freedom of speech, we don't match his definition of Liberalism, and so we are no longer a Liberal or Democratic society.

Plus, we're not talking terrorism here, we're talking of some political channel. Now personally I believe in censorship of the media anyway, but I don't pretend to be pro-Libertarian anyway outside personal freedoms. I would have banned the channel for going up in the first place, and I'd ban a lot of other stuff too, like religious channels etc. But that doesn't change the fact that you go on about free America and Liberty all that nonsense, so your American Ideology can't ban freedom of speech, if you did it would be against what you lot claim America stands for.

Neither does it change, who decides what’s racist? Because under political Correctness (something I'd ban) anything you say about another ethnic group which isn't positive is racist (nuts of course, but PC is control of the country, and its that which will be placing a tape over your mouth).

Integration has to be made possible, since the goal is multiculturalism and not assimilation.

Correction, your goal is multiculturalism. My own goal of integration IS assimilation. The dominant Culture of each country should be the native one, they shouldn't be asked to change because someone else decided to move there. Immigrants are free to follow whatever in their own homes, but they must abide by the rules of the natives when not. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Two examples of Immigrants who integrate well. The Chinese etc; in Scotland we've had Chinese for decades, they don't assimilate all that well because they tend to all live together and make their areas like little China Towns, however outside of that small area they respect and abide our laws and systems, and don't ask us to change. And because of that, we like them. The second is Black People; who in the UK do assimilate, and just become like us.... exactly like us, hell I know a lot of black British whose grandparents came here that are more patriotic about Britain and about holding onto our traditions etc than white British whose ancestors came here a thousand years ago. Hell, they just become us.

That’s what integration should be, it should be Mutli-racialism, not multi-culturalism.

Meanwhile a bad immigrant is someone who comes here, refused to learn the languages, refuses to learn anything of the culture, and refuses to abide by our right and wrong, instead expecting us to change our country to match the one they or their parents left.

The purpose of immigrating should be to become new-*insert new homeland here*, not to expect them to become new-*insert old homeland here*

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Assimilation can't happen over night. That would take generations. Cultural backround of a person isn't something you can just cut off and insert a new one. You can't become someone you're not. I could never be turned to a british, or african, or indian woman. If I moved to one of those countries, maybe my children, or their children would. Though I would consider my roots and culture something valuable, and make sure that I'll pass it on.

Idea in multiculturalism, (which is by the way quite general goal in european humanright-organizations and governments, not just mine) is that different cultures can coexist peacefully and respecting others. Ofcourse laws have to be obeyd, they are necessary for the society to work, but culture isn't just something that violates those. I'm sure that most immigrants don't think that they can turn their new host-country into what they came from, bit naive to even say that.

Culture as it's widest meaning is a big part of who we are, psychologically and spiritually. Taking that off creates stress and sense of confusion and rootlessness. If the goal is that new-comers instantly melt in the population, it would be better to keep the boarders of the country closed in a first place.

Talon mentioned that immigrants tend to keep to them selves and create their own communities. I know that's true, and it serioiusly interferes with integration. I just want to aknowledge tha fact, that we might have made it happen. If the disrespect and arrogance towards immigrants is openly shown, ofcourse they want to stay away from that. I would too.

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I could never be turned to a british, or african, or indian woman. If I moved to one of those countries, maybe my children, or their children would. Though I would consider my roots and culture something valuable, and make sure that I'll pass it on.

But I doubt you would try and force the anative population to change to your culture though, which is what many immigrants are now trying to do, whilst 10 years ago they would have adapted. Ironically its not for the most part the first generation who are the most vocal about it, rather the second and third generations who I agree with you should have adapted, who are raving about it, suddenly trying to reclaim their routs to a country teir parents fled and trying to drag the other 97% of us along with them.

I just want to aknowledge tha fact, that we might have made it happen. If the disrespect and arrogance towards immigrants is openly shown, ofcourse they want to stay away from that.

The UK follows a policy of segregation, it has little to do with arrogance or disrespect, its down to the UK government wanting to create little-Indias, and little-Pakistans, and little etc etc etcs Hell, they even want to introduce more one-faith only schools, and I beleive London has three black-children only schools. Did we learn nothing from the US' own dark history, that the ethnic minorities and Labour and trying to recreate it? This policy of not having populations intergrate is breeding radical loonatics amongst the ethnic minorities, and then creates tension with the ethnic majority who see this as a threat to their own culture.

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Talon...I read some of Mill and I see I did study him...seems I forgot. What you have to say is interesting and what Mill says is fascinating and I totally agree_ only, how could a democratic society win a war like this war, international terrorism, without reverting back to "the tyranny of the majority?" I think you have to buckle down to win this war. I see this in the U.S. today as Mill says his own society was ruled by the "tyranny of opinion."

I agree with you on the political channel, but we are coming from a different world-view, here, now_since 911_ and I don't want Hizbullah to spread their poison. The more this poison 'airs' the bigger the troops we have to fight.

...and, frankly, I'm worried about losing.

Edited by Babs
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I agree with you on the political channel, but we are coming from a different world-view, here, now_since 911_ and I don't want Hizbullah to spread their poison. The more this poison 'airs' the bigger the troops we have to fight.

You take away free speech and theyve won.

So i take it you like communism now?

Communism is the perfect way to stop terrorism,.

Give the state utter control over the masses?..

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I know that the following quote has been repeated over and over and over again in the last 3 years, but I just can't help repeating it once more..

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Benjamin Franklin was a man of honour, coming from an age where men still knew what honour really is. Perhaps we should remember History and its mistakes a bit more?

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Interesting wun, but I don't have a clue really as to what you are talking about this time. grin2.gif

I loved Ben Franklin...he is one of my favorites. wub.gif

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laugh.gifcat.gif --humm--i wonder what kind of game shows they have on "hizbulla tv ?"

instead of --"who wants to be a millionair??" -- it might be--"who wants to keep their head !!"-- instead of --"fear factor"--it could be --hizbulla factor "--LOL

hizbulla version of MTV or VH-1 ? i wonder what a hizbulla VJ would look like ?

i wonder who is the hizbulla--'dick-clark "--?? laugh.gif

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instead of --"who wants to be a millionair??" -- it might be--"who wants to keep their head !!"

Actually, Hamas ran a show (and still do, if I'm not mistaken) a couple of months ago called "who wants to be a suicide bomber" wacko.gif... that was extremly freakish show...

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Actually, Hamas ran a show (and still do, if I'm not mistaken) a couple of months ago called "who wants to be a suicide bomber" wacko.gif... that was extremly freakish show...

374682[/snapback]

lmao w00t.gif

Are you kidding or is it for real?

If it was for real, then it's...lol...I dunno how to call it.

It reminds me of what they were saying about that "Joe Millionaire" reality show, that there could be a version about JC, called "Jesus the Nazarene", where there's "this guy in Judea, and there are 12 candidate disciples that compete" laugh.gif

Edited by Asterix
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Removing radical hatred towards a group of people from the airwaves sounds like a good idea and it would appease many. The result, I am afraid, would be detremental. Free speach or not, people will find a way to make their voices heard through another medium if nessisarry. I would rather change the chanel when the program came on than turn on the tv and see people flying airplanes into buildings,

again. sad.gif

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exactly girty.

If the general public are properly educated by the state then theyll see through the bull****.

babs what is there to not understand.

Communism controls everything that is broadcast in the country, takes away anything that denounces or contradicts the states wishes .

Exactly what ur proposing

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laugh.gif  cat.gif --humm--i wonder what kind of game shows they have on "hizbulla tv ?"

instead of --"who wants to be a millionair??" -- it might be--"who wants to keep their head !!"-- instead of --"fear factor"--it could be --hizbulla factor "--LOL

hizbulla version of MTV or VH-1 ? i wonder what a hizbulla VJ would look like ?

i wonder who is the hizbulla--'dick-clark "--?? laugh.gif

374673[/snapback]

laugh.gifthumbsup.gif That's hilarious.

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cat.gif i wonder what the ads are like ??

" act now to get your FREE box cutters ! 17 absolutely FREE virgins and a palace in the GLORY LAND !! BE a MARTYR NOW ! sign up at UNCLE OMARS !!

like my late uncle once said--"if it is on TV--it can't be worth a damnn."--LOL

grin2.gifcat.gif

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cat.gif Uncle omar's camel sales , 0 down ! no interest till ramadan !! got an old wife for a trade--no problem !!

check out this low milage single hump ! gets 30mpg (on water) !

just say " i saw you ad on hizbullah TV" and get a free gift ! yes your own FREE -FREE FREE copy of Mahhad ishmaks "greatest hits"--cd which includes songs like--

"i will go on a jehad for a two hump brown eyed female", and that forever classic "go home infidel "

hurry to uncle omars tent --act NOW !!!

all trades final--no refunds ! <--fine print cat.gifgrin2.gif

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wun...I will have to mull this over. I'll get back to you. I hope Talon comes on again and helps me decipher what 'I'm saying'. grin2.gif I haven't read all there is to, on Mill, so I'm not sure that what I am talking about applies here.

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LOL jsf... laugh.gif....

exactly girty.

If the general public are properly educated by the state then theyll see through the bull****.

babs what is there to not understand.

Communism controls everything that is broadcast in the country, takes away anything that denounces or contradicts the states wishes .

Exactly what ur proposing

That's quite damagougic of you to say that (just to make things clear here - I am not calling you a damagogue here, and I do not intend to insult you)...

There's a huge difference between banning inciting propaganda against certain group, and banning free speech.

History have shown us that even well educated people fall into the hands of racist propaganda when they are fed by it enough (Nazi Germany is a good example... I hope youre not suggesting that the Germans were un-educated at the time, not when Germany was considered to be the cultural center of Europe huh.gif).

Just like democracy isn't just about whatever the majority wants (because if it was, the majority could just have agreed to kill the minority groups, and this would be legal in such swisted democracy), and the majority desires does have to cope into the legal system of the country (and you would still consider such a state to be a democracy), so does freedom of speech has to be restricted when it comes to racism and violence.

Racist groups and violent groups should be banned, because they are a danger to society.

I'm not saying "let's arrest everyone who say something we don't like".

I'm saying, "let's not give known terrorist groups and racist groups spread their violent propaganda out".

Democracy has to defend itself, even in the cost of banning groups that are a menace to society (proven neo-nazis, known terrorist groups like Hezbollah, etc.).

Such restriction will not lead to total ban on freedom of speech, so stop making it sound like it will.

On the other hand, it will cause the society to be much more open to "alien" ideas, because no parts of the society are incited to hate "different" views.

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You take away free speech and theyve won.

So i take it you like communism now?

Communism is the perfect way to stop terrorism,.

Give the state utter control over the masses?..

Sound about right. Mill stated that control of the media was allowed during wars, but he beleived the moment freedoms of speech were banned you were no longer a Liberial Free Society... could still be a Democracy, as Liberialism and Democracy aren't one and the same.... but for purposes, yeah it would be the first steps to a totalatarane state.

That's quite damagougic of you

You use that word a lot.... so much so I'm not sure you know what it means and are just using it as a by-word for anyone who says anything you don't like.

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Sound about right. Mill stated that control of the media was allowed during wars, but he beleived the moment freedoms of speech were banned you were no longer a Liberial Free Society... could still be a Democracy, as Liberialism and Democracy aren't one and the same.... but for purposes, yeah it would be the first steps to a totalatarane state.

Exactly my point, except in the state Bush is trying to run there is no intention for total equality. Just totalitarian sate run capitalism lol. Inverted communism. So ironic.

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wun and Talon...

Okay we_ the U.S. _is still a democracy, but we don't have the "liberalism agenda" right now. That's because of the war and terrorism. We are in that "majority rules category" and public opinion is the reigning power. (I think that's the place to be in, in my opinion, if we want to win this war).

That's what I am trying to do ...bring public opinion to the board from the U.S.A. I know that public opinion rules here, now. We still have a lot of liberals crying and I see why. When the war is finished I will jump back to the liberal view and liberal issues. Interesting.

Hey, this is making sense now.

Edited by Babs
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OK babs rite the main vice of communism is that every aspect of a subject's life is monitored and controlled.

the main aim of america's foregn policy was to destroy communism , however the patriot act is just EXACTLY teh begginning of a dictatorship which is what 20th century communism degenerated into in nearly ever instance.

America's ever more intrusive patriot act is giving the state more and more and more control over its subjects.

Thus america becomes 1980's USSR. in the end .

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You use that word a lot.... so much so I'm not sure you know what it means and are just using it as a by-word for anyone who says anything you don't like.

And I can say the same thing about you when it comes to the word "paranoia".

Please, stop insulting people.

Believe me, from what I've seen so far, your'e nothing special and you should stop petronising on others here.

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