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France: Hizbullah TV allowed to stay on air


Erikl
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Racism is usually a good producer of extremism! Young people who live on the margines of a society and who are constantly subject to blind racism become perfect fanatic extremists! A visit to certain banlieue (suburbs) of any big French city is a good field trip to verify the validity of the above statements!

Although I basically agree with you on this, this case is not such of "oh, the world is cruel to me, so let's revenge my poorness by attacking minorities etc.".

The motivation of muslim extremists is religious, not racist.

Extreme Islam isn't racist btw, it's against anyone who doesn't join it.

Bin Laden has no problem having converted Jews and Christians into his legions of doomsday.

The same goes for the extreme Islam in France - although it does use poorness as a way to recruit, it is largely religious motivated.

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  • wunarmdscissor

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How in the world could you stop your government from taking over? 

I think I want to keep my guns, now that I understand what is going on. This is the melting pot over here...and we have wild times and crazy, wild and dangerous people. When you touch down on American soil (U.S.A.) you sense you have to be on your toes

Well babs in 200 years of democracy the government has "yet to take over"...

babs the crrent administration have done a good job of brainwashing you and whipping yopu up into a frenzy havent they.

what you dont realise is that through the patriot act and various other laws your govt is more draconian than most and that the very scenario your describing is already under way in america, its just that bush, rumsfeld and cheney have whipped half of americans into such a frenzy of paranoia you cant see it.

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At least in Europe you have fredoom of speech, and you dont go to prison if you denounce that your gov has nuclear weapons.

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At least in Europe you have fredoom of speech, and you dont go to prison if you denounce that your gov has nuclear weapons.

huh.gif

Nonsense cool.gif

Prove it.

If a black muslim wants to join Al-Qaeda or Hezbollah, will he be refused because he is black?

If a Jew or a Christian converted to Islam and tried to join one of the above groups, will he be refused?

No.

Ergo, Islamic extremists are not racist.

They simply hate any person who doesn't believe in their ideology.

But they will never stop him from joining.

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Ergo, Islamic extremists are not racist. 

They simply hate any person who doesn't believe in their ideology. 

But they will never stop him from joining. 

401711[/snapback]

 

And that is because the fundamentalist terrorist groups, Al-Qaeda being the most obvious example, have grasped the meaning of modern business. Perhaps because Osama Bin Laden had experience with business himself, from his paternal possessions, he understood early enough that he can bark as much as he wants for the Western "Satans" and their "evil" civilization, yet he used laptops (possibly with Windows installed tongue.gif ) and cell phones (Could they be motorola?).

Ideology is one thing, practicalities another. And, unfortunately, the modern times terrorists have realized that, and that makes them more dangerous

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And that is because the fundamentalist terrorist groups, Al-Qaeda being the most obvious example, have grasped the meaning of modern business. Perhaps because Osama Bin Laden had experience with business himself, from his paternal possessions, he understood early enough that he can bark as much as he wants for the Western "Satans" and their "evil" civilization, yet he used laptops (possibly with Windows installed tongue.gif ) and cell phones (Could they be motorola?).

Ideology is one thing, practicalities another. And, unfortunately, the modern times terrorists have realized that, and that makes them more dangerous

On the contrary, using Western technology against the west is part of their ideology in the first place.

You could say they put it in their tactics for practical reasons, but just wanted you to know that they see the use of our technology against us as one of their greatest accomplishments.

See using airplanes (Western technology ofcourse) to smash into WTC, killing thousands and terrorizing millions.

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Indeed, the whole occident worked together struggling against muslim extremists either in France or anywhere else

To see this as only the West's struggle against muslim extremists is totally naive since it is the very short-sighted policies of Western countries that encouraged extremism to begin with! In their narrow view, as long as the victims of such extremism were Muslims, it was all right! crying.gif I would very much like to know what Clinton was doing when the Taliban, backed by the Pakistani military ( an ally of the US), were overthrowing by the force of arms the government of Afghanistan! whistling2.gif Or did anyone in the West condemn the ethnic cleansing done by the Taliban in northern Afghanistan! crying.gif Where were all the peace loving people to question their governments' policies concerning the gassing of 5000 kurds in Halabja by their lunatic friends? How far do you think Halabja and Mazer-e-Sharif are from New york? crying.gif This is more a struggle against ignorance and those who exploit it, rather than a war of religions! It's just that everyone is too embarrassed to talk about it! devil.gif

However, I've seen a TV report dealing with a Franco-French guy who was going to train in Afghanistan, to be at Ben Laden's service. I'm not sure he had been victim of racism. But his case is probably particular

I wasnt saying that racism is the only cause of extremism, but one of the major causes of it, especially in what concerns extremism in Western countries! I agree with you that this is not only a French problem, but since this thread was about France I mentioned the banlieu in French cities! original.gif

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Prove it.

If a black muslim wants to join Al-Qaeda or Hezbollah, will he be refused because he is black?

If a Jew or a Christian converted to Islam and tried to join one of the above groups, will he be refused?

I think there is misunderstanding here! I wasnt saying what you thought I was saying blink.gif Never mind; but I answer your questions anyway grin2.gif

No!

No!

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I'm just reading that Al Manar is forbidden.

I hope that this will put an end to those who criticized France for authorizing such a channel to show its programms.

Bye

Olivier

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Zephyr, I've already answered those... they were rethorical questions tongue.gif.

Olivier, indeed this is a great progress for the France, but they still have many things to do.

Anyway, I'm glad in this case the French government came to it's sences... for the time tongue.gif...

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What about this? Didn't someone mention that if you weren't allowed guns in a democracy then the people weren't in control? I mean if there are no guns allowed in the UK doesn't that mean that the people don't have complete control?

Edited by Babs
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We "still have many things to do" ??? angry.gif

Are YOU perfect ? A good policy does not consist in neglecting freedom of speech.

Finally you people feel how we feel - that someone who has many flaws dare to lecture you tongue.gif.

And I'm sorry - but IMHO, the freedom of speech doesn't include giving voice to terrorists tongue.gif.

They stopped deserving it once they started killing people who they don't agree with (thus violating freedom of move, live, speech and the list goes on and on...).

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The channel was, indeed, not in conformity with our laws.

But I'm afraid this event has just a limited influence. It is not known how many french people could receive this channel, but they were presumably very rare.

Moreover, if this channel is not authorized in France, it is not the case in the other countries (european or not).

But it is a good thing - at least symbolically - to forbid a channel of that kind.

Bye

Olivier

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Olivier, you underestimate France's influence of the EU.

France is one of the most influental member in the EU, has the second largest population, and the largest territory.

France, together with the UK and Germany, pretty much dictates the mood in the EU.

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I'm not sure.

It is not such a big country and a lot of countries now belong to the EU. The more numerous the countries are, the less they influence the group.

I've got the impression that you overestimate France's influence. Moreover, I have not heard of forbiding Al Manar in any other country. (I may not be well informed).

Bye

Olivier

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That is because no other country broadcast Al Manar or plans to.

I don't think I overestimate France at all - although ofcourse it doesn't run the EU alone, France, with Britain and Germany, has a lot of power, both economically, and militarily (as the UK and France are the only countries in the EU that actually have powerfull and significant militaries, and both are the sole nuclear powers in the EU), as well as diplomatically (don't forget France is one of the only two EU members that have permenant seat in the security council, and the right to veto).

Also, the add it all, France was one of the founders of the EU.

Without France, UK or Germany, the EU will fall apart.

It is not such a big country

Are you kidding?

With 60+ million citizens, France is second only to Germany in terms of population.

Also, with it's territory (not included overseas territories) encompassing 674,843 km², it is the largest EU member in terms of land size.

Edited by Erikl
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When I find That France has little influence, I think of the new laws which are not desired by French people but imposed by Europe. Or I think of our harsh opposition to the war in Iraq which has merely been neglected with some contempt and amusement by the USA;

Bye

Olivier

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These have several reasons:

A. The EU is heading more towards becomming a confederation, rather than loose alliance. Nevertheless, the laws that you complain of being imposed on you by the EU are largely influenced by French politicians in the EU parliament.

B. The US is still the sole superpower of this world, and so even though France has much influence in Europe, it isn't a superpower. This superpower status of the US also renders the UN useless if it disagrees with the US.

C. Britain stood by the US, and remember that the UK has as much influence in the EU as France and Germany. If any of the three will break out of the EU, the organization will become powerless.

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You seem to know quite well international politics. I'm impressed. I could not give so numerous and subtle pieces of information concerning Israel (I can see you live there).

Sorry to have sent you N. Sarkozy (he is now visitting Israel) sad.gif : one of our worst politicians. At least, the most demagogic.

Bye

Olivier

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ahh but olivier erikl has a slightly blurred view of european politics.

He sees rifts in the eu that dont exist. isnt that right my good friend ? ;-) lol.

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ahh but olivier erikl has a slightly blurred view of european politics.

He sees rifts in the eu that dont exist. isnt that right my good friend ? ;-) lol.

The fact that the UK allied itself with the US instead of France and Germany proves that there unsolved disagreements, don't you think? wink2.gif

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The fact that the UK allied itself with the US instead of France and Germany proves that there unsolved disagreements, don't you think? wink2.gif

Rubbish. We are America's strongest allies, like it or not. And our PM decided that to back the US was the right thing to do. Just because we did not side with Germany and France is irrelevant and is not significant, not the way some would like to see it.

The UK is the most influential nation within the EU.

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Rubbish. We are America's strongest allies, like it or not. And our PM decided that to back the US was the right thing to do.

Actually, not only it doesn't bother us, maney Israelis eager to have a similar relations with the US that the UK has thumbsup.gif , that is - being equal partners rather than being told what to do and how to do it.

Just because we did not side with Germany and France is irrelevant and is not significant, not the way some would like to see it.

Ofcourse it is relevant to this discussion.

The fact the the UK and the US are stronger allies than the UK and France are, for example, shows just how the EU has a long way to go before it could be a superpower of some sort.

The UK is the most influential nation within the EU.

The UK is one of three most influential nations within the EU.

If France will resign from the EU, it will become powerless.

If Germany will resign it - again, the organization will be useless, even with the UK and France sill inside.

And ofcourse if the UK will resign it, then Germany and France alone won't be enough to make it some thing powerfull.

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