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taniwha

Is God All In The Mind?

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Ellapennella

To quote from a certain bard...

"'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;

Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.

What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,

Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part

Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!

What's in a name? that which we call a rose

By any other name would smell as sweet;"

To answer your question you would have to understand what 'God' refers to. If 'God' is simply the label we apply to a projection of our own desires, then yes, 'God' exists because our own desires exist. This does not mean that 'God' exists independently of ourselves. 'God' is not a hand, or a foot, or some independent entity, but another name for something others refer to by a different name.

Does this mean 'God' is simply a figment of our imaginations? No more than 'taniwha' is.

No . Not completley . Imagination precedes beyond the familiarity of the 6 senses . You're a teacher maybe professor , aren't you ? you're very gifted.

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quiXilver

I find it an outstanding principle built into the very fabric of our my experience of reality... that we I can use our my senses to move beyond them.

Edited by quiXilver
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Orcseeker

What I've found from reading and learning about others stories and experiences, is that angels, heaven, demons and such could be attributed to a single compound. This compound is theorised to be the reason we dream and the reason people see things in near death experiences and goes by the name dimethyltryptamine. It is theorised to be produced in the pineal gland. Conscious consumption of this substance has striking similarities between the two.

The experience is described as profound and incredible. Something to have such an impact and seeing these creatures I wouldn't shy away from the idea that this is where they come from. Perhaps ideas of the afterlife coming to life in these experiences or even firstly envisioned in them. These experiences can have an everlasting effect on the subject and could be the reason for some extremely devoted followers or a very persistent creator of the religion.

This substance has evoked the concept of 'something more' in some instances of subjects. Could this be the birthplace of heaven and hell? A concept attempted to be attributed to an experience of an individual?

In many cultures and religions, from long ago to the very day. There is a strong emphasis on the "third eye". This third eye is thought to be the pineal gland, the part that allows to perceive this other world so to speak. Or whether or not even relating to the pineal gland, simply an "eye of the mind" just tying back into what we visualise in our dreams and the aforementioned experiences.

As far as I am concerned it is an extremely interesting subject on the mind and how complex it can be. I do think that most of these fantastical beings are a result of such experience or at least should be seriously considered to be so.

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SpiritWriter

We started in the mind of God. We are the thought that came into being and our mind is a part of the entire mind of God which is out of our reach. Angels and demons have to be interpreted by us individually because the subject is complex and misunderstood. Miracles and hauntings, etc.. do exist, but the question is what do you personally think about them. We have the ability to experience intimacy with God, spirit etc.. through our "minds", some have benefited from this greatly while others have seemed to suffer from it. We are all on our own journeys. For what its worth I would say God or the spiritual force that has been historically refered to as God, Christ, or the spiritual principle that invokes miraculous reunion with God, perhaps associated with "awakening", the angels, or unseen protective forces active in our daily lives, demons, or the spiritual force which is against us and wreak havoc among us, giving us an internal battle to win are all very real. The supernatural projection of such entities, while perhaps "mental" give us a little icing for our cake and mysterious flavor that keeps are juices flowing. We cannot know God without our minds... the stories passed down by religion are more than plausible realities but deeper level of "thinking". As humans we are driven to ponder these notions and some have found "religion" or practice of a truth they can personally bear witness to. There is more to the spirit than the history of the flesh, but of the present moment and eternity. God is just a name for the ALL. The truth is there are repercussions for ill living, there are blessings for living a certain way. We are confined by societal constructs but "in our minds" we can be set free. It has always been about the mind. We are mind.

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NewAge1

Of course god is merely in the mind. There is no evidence that a real god exists or has ever existed, no instance of prayer ever having a directly-provable effect, and no recorded instance of an unmistakably miraculous event ever happening. God is just an imaginary friend for adults.

Unless the word 'God' is only a metaphor for the Universe, a Universe which is made aware of itself through us. It may just be that your definition of God is flawed. If God became the Universe, there is no need of prayer answerings and miraculous events though I don't dismiss these experiences, instead this Intelligence unconsciously underlie all that there is. And yes there is plenty of evidence for it, look at the beauty of nature around you or take your telescope and go watch the sky!

Edited by sam_comm

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White Crane Feather

What I've found from reading and learning about others stories and experiences, is that angels, heaven, demons and such could be attributed to a single compound. This compound is theorised to be the reason we dream and the reason people see things in near death experiences and goes by the name dimethyltryptamine. It is theorised to be produced in the pineal gland. Conscious consumption of this substance has striking similarities between the two.

The experience is described as profound and incredible. Something to have such an impact and seeing these creatures I wouldn't shy away from the idea that this is where they come from. Perhaps ideas of the afterlife coming to life in these experiences or even firstly envisioned in them. These experiences can have an everlasting effect on the subject and could be the reason for some extremely devoted followers or a very persistent creator of the religion.

This substance has evoked the concept of 'something more' in some instances of subjects. Could this be the birthplace of heaven and hell? A concept attempted to be attributed to an experience of an individual?

In many cultures and religions, from long ago to the very day. There is a strong emphasis on the "third eye". This third eye is thought to be the pineal gland, the part that allows to perceive this other world so to speak. Or whether or not even relating to the pineal gland, simply an "eye of the mind" just tying back into what we visualise in our dreams and the aforementioned experiences.

As far as I am concerned it is an extremely interesting subject on the mind and how complex it can be. I do think that most of these fantastical beings are a result of such experience or at least should be seriously considered to be so.

You don't need it to go there. :)

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Orcseeker

You don't need it to go there. :)

To go where may I ask?

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eight bits

Orcseeker

To go where may I ask?

Probably to a hospital emergency room if ingesting neurotoxins is somebody's idea of a spiritual exercise.

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quiXilver

I think at least one has to seek out the truth.

in my experience

if one is aware... truth reveals itself

no seeking required

to aid in becoming aware

some efforts are useful

in dropping attachments and aversions

but mostly, it's letting go

of that which is not self

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Liquid Gardens

Probably to a hospital emergency room if ingesting neurotoxins is somebody's idea of a spiritual exercise.

Hmmm, lots of people have been ingesting psychedelics for a long time without requiring any medical assistance. I think WCF is saying that there's no need to use substances as he knows a way, at least for him, to have some of these experiences without additional substances.

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Careful_perspective

I can't prove God exists but ever since I "picked a side" and decided I would believe, I feel much better overall. I don't live my life by the bible, I just try to honest and kind. More specifically I try to live my life by my quote in my signature.

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Electrika

This question had been asked since the beginning of mankind.

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SpiritWriter

I don't find God and the universe having the same meaning. But part of the beauty is that God is personal so each interpretation is unique. I cannot agree that God has never been proven but I can understand how a person may want it to be proven to them personally in order for them to believe.

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Leonardo

I don't find God and the universe having the same meaning. But part of the beauty is that God is personal so each interpretation is unique. I cannot agree that God has never been proven but I can understand how a person may want it to be proven to them personally in order for them to believe.

Not according to various religions.

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eight bits

LG

What you quote of mine wasn't addressed to WCF, nor was it about "psychedelics," it was about neurotoxins, which another poster seemed to be somewhat obliquely discussing. Dimethyl tryptamine if I took his meaning,

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Stubbly_Dooright

I don't find God and the universe having the same meaning. But part of the beauty is that God is personal so each interpretation is unique. I cannot agree that God has never been proven but I can understand how a person may want it to be proven to them personally in order for them to believe.

I agree with your second sentence. It's the last two, I personally anyways, I find that doesn't seem to make sense to me. Yeah, to a degree, God has never been proven, and to your degree, you cannot say that, and I understand that. To me though, when someone already believes, they usually do not proof, they seem to have their own. I don't know if there are a lot of individuals who want proof so they can believe. I think, if they don't, they already have their proof to not believe. I think it's usually what non-believers ask, (from my perspective mind you. ) when various believers suggest to them they should believe. In other words, it's like a deal breaker for them to continue to proselytize. I don't think it's what those who don't believe want, they already have their own proof to not believe. My take, mind you.

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Podo

Unless the word 'God' is only a metaphor for the Universe, a Universe which is made aware of itself through us. It may just be that your definition of God is flawed. If God became the Universe, there is no need of prayer answerings and miraculous events though I don't dismiss these experiences, instead this Intelligence unconsciously underlie all that there is. And yes there is plenty of evidence for it, look at the beauty of nature around you or take your telescope and go watch the sky!

Nature being pretty or awe-inspiring is in no way "proof" of your god-is-the-universe theory. It does not prove anything other than you are in awe of the universe. And, to be clear, I think that's great, be in awe of the universe. There is nothing wrong with that. But, it is not proof, not by any stretch of the term. Proof can be tested, verified, examined. A mountain range being pretty, for example, proves nothing.

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Liquid Gardens

What you quote of mine wasn't addressed to WCF,

Sorry 8, I should have been clearer; my comment about what I think WCF was really getting at wasn't really directed at you and was meant to be general and more for Orcseeker, I didn't mean to imply that I was correcting or disputing you or anything on that.

nor was it about "psychedelics," it was about neurotoxins, which another poster seemed to be somewhat obliquely discussing. Dimethyl tryptamine if I took his meaning,

Dimethyltryptamine is a psychedelic compound, found in our bodies and in plants. I took the poster to be referring to this aspect of it since he refers to 'spiritual'-type experiences that could be explained by essentially hallucinations. There is speculation that endogenous DMT is the cause of these types of experiences, specifically, I'm assuming, because of its psychedelic effects. I just wasn't clear on your 'neurotoxin'-emergency room tie-in; I ingest neurotoxins contained in a certain malty/hoppy beverage fairly regularly without medical assistance, and although I'm not sure about DMT, I don't believe there is much evidence that the usual dosages of psychedelics reach toxic levels where they actually cause damage to the nervous system.

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eight bits

LG

Not all psychedelics are neurotoxins, and not all neurotoxins are psychedelic. DMT is both. My statement was clearly about neurotoxins, and not about everything that has ever been ingested under the rubric of psychedelics.

I ingest neurotoxins contained in a certain malty/hoppy beverage fairly regularly without medical assistance, and although I'm not sure about DMT,

The dose makes the poison. In the case of DMT, it doesn't take much, but then a healthy body is also very good at getting rid of it. That's why the drug pushers of neuro-tourism - excuse me, sacred ayahuasca shamans of the Amazon - make cocktails that contain both neurotoxin and also a slew of other ingredients, some of which inhibit the disposal of the crap. Typically, the body tries anyway (there's a lot of puking in ayahuasca abuse) but that mechanism isn't effective against the tiny residual amount that suffices for neurological symptoms - excuse me again, peak spiritual experiences.

Sorry, friend, no sale here on this one.

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Liquid Gardens

Sorry, friend, no sale here on this one.

Agreed, throwing up is not an experience I like enhanced by psychedelics. Back in the 60s though, DMT was somewhat popular as a 'casual' psychedelic, via vaporization I believe, because at those dosages/via that administration method, the effects were relatively short-lived, half-hour to an hour I believe. I know of course there are going to be some who truly OD on them but I think the majority of ER trips for these are caused by users 'freaking out', and not because they are physically in any danger. Mentally unfortunately may be a different matter, especially if they already have an existing condition, a la Syd Barrett.

(As an aside, I worked in an ER for a while when I was in college, and had looked up some of the effects and case histories in some of the large books they had concerning various drugs/compounds (merely out of curiosity of course :whistle: ). They had all kinds of data and examples for all the usual hard drugs, but not really much on the psychedelics. I do recall a case where 2 guys thought they were snorting a line of cocaine but it was actually powdered LSD (the 'proper' dosage of which is usually in millionths of a gram), which put them into comas very quickly. They were able to get them to the hospital and they turned out okay, but when they awoke from their comas they had lots to say about the beautiful dreams they had while comatose. At least they got something out of it, but yea, no sale on that experience either.)

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SpiritWriter

Not according to various religions.

I do think most religions have introduced the concept of having a personal God. They may direct other attributes to who God is, like names or where they hail from, but the intimate piece has not been forsaken as far as I have seen.

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Leonardo

I do think most religions have introduced the concept of having a personal God. They may direct other attributes to who God is, like names or where they hail from, but the intimate piece has not been forsaken as far as I have seen.

Okay, maybe we are using different meanings of the word 'personal' then. If so I apologise. From your previous post I thought you meant each person interpreting God to be as they believed, which is not what various religions would have their adherents do but rather accept the 'version' of God defined by the religious authority.

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White Crane Feather

To go where may I ask?

To the mental space that's needed to exsperince these things. You have the ability on your own though it takes a lot more effort. :)

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Orcseeker

Orcseeker

Probably to a hospital emergency room if ingesting neurotoxins is somebody's idea of a spiritual exercise.

That's one way to attempt to discredit it. In any case it has been done for a very long time without the need for that. In that instance that was a safety precaution done for the studies (how would one get approval if these were not taken?) and ingested via bloodstream injection. Or are you suggesting Peruvian natives for example had this accessibility?

After all. This is a compound found in you and I. Explain it's reason for being there and it's affect on the mind. Let's not get misinformation in the way of reasonable discussion now.

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Orcseeker

To the mental space that's needed to exsperince these things. You have the ability on your own though it takes a lot more effort. :)

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you meaning to say only one who is adept in meditation is somewhat capable of recreating those experiences consciously? The exclusivity of the experiences I am proposing? To my understanding, people have never needed anything like that to ascribe to a faith.

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