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Still Waters

Why does the military insist on saluting?

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MissJatti

We, who is about to die, salute you

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Manwon Lender
20 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

I was in the U.S. Army and I am proud that I served, but I did see that attitude among some officers that it was more important that we salute them and pretend like they were above us and we were their personal servants.  It is a failing in their training in my opinion, but some people you can't change.  I also served with officers who felt affinity towards the enlisted and were very kind, reasonable people.  They had good training and good minds.  I can see the  attitude demonstrated by @quiXilver to be either ignorance or scarred from bad experiences.  I witnessed some crazy stuff perpetrated by officers and enlisted when I was in the army (we were supposedly a peace time army, though we were already in Afghanistan and places in Africa that no one is supposed to know about).

I totally agree with you.

Have a good night.

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Cookie Monster
On 1/6/2015 at 9:07 PM, Still Waters said:

The UK's Ministry of Defence has issued a reminder to young officers to salute their superiors. But when did this form of greeting originate and why is it used, asks Justin Parkinson.

The salute is often thought to date back to Roman times, but there is no evidence that soldiers raised their hand as a formal greeting.

Another theory is that it originated in medieval Europe, when knights used their hands to raise their visors, revealing their identity to demonstrate they were friendly. This explanation is also regarded with scepticism.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...onitor-30679406

When it comes to managing a business, cultural values are used to shape and mould the human activity and behaviour going on inside the organisation.

A business doesnt have to be a privately owned company. It can be a state owned organisation like the NHS, Police, or the Armed forces. Regardless of ownership, they all create a culture based on a set of values used to help the business achieve its aims.

In the Armed Forces they need people to obey orders, to work together properly as a team, and to kill on demand. Team working is heavily undermined when dysfunctional interpersonal behaviour is allowed to exist inside an organisation. So one cultural value the military heavily promotes is respect towards senior officers. 

Does it ever fail? Of course it does, we are dealing with human beings. But by promoting cultural values the incidence of problems is reduced compared. If you look at businesses which have managers that dont have a clue what they are doing you find quite negative cultures undermining the performance of the organisation and stopping it achieving its aims.

In the military, that would get people killed.

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Desertrat56
2 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

I totally agree with you.

Have a good night.

Thank you. I hope you had a good night.

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Peter shanks
On 8/27/2019 at 2:28 AM, Manwon Lender said:

I am a retired US Army E-8, I think your comments are lacking because your far too kind. However,  I totally agree that the individuals comments were insulting. It's a shame that this behaviour is common place today, and that the people we have protected think so little of the country we love. I suppose you have to respect yourself before you can respect anything else.

Respectfully

I think you for acknowledging the kindness of my remarks. As a logistics Senior NCO, I served others by supplying all their needs. I issued everything from their underwear to the vehicles they drove. On the other hand, I had to deal with commission Officers using their rank to control me. Their intentions conflicted with my duties. You should already have an idea  of the results of this story. It is always good and best to be niece went you can be, but if not, I also enjoy the excitements of being in the ******* mode. regardless to the mode, they ended as teachings and learning moments for all. My behavioral practices are in line with the constitutional principles of individual conduct and I do not like to breach these standards, especially on the first engagement. 

In closing, I leave you with these words, Some may want to ship off negativity by others some where else, I say just change the last letter to the 20th letter of the ABC's, let them go where.    

I love you also

Edited by Peter shanks
spelling corrections
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Trelane

I believe it originated to signify the person who necro posted first.

Edited by Trelane
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Golden Duck
On 8/27/2019 at 4:32 PM, Farmer77 said:

Are you arguing that quixilver is wrong?

His comments were only insulting because he didnt use flowery verbiage to describe the process.  How is that wrong?

i think he might be wrong.  I think the salute may come from a similar place as the hat tip.

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Manwon Lender
55 minutes ago, Peter shanks said:

I think you for acknowledging the kindness of my remarks. As a logistics Senior NCO, I served others by supplying all their needs. I issued everything from their underwear to the vehicles they drove. On the other hand, I had to deal with commission Officers using their rank to control me. Their intentions conflicted with my duties. You should already have an idea  of the results of this story. It is always good and best to be niece went you can be, but if not, I also enjoy the excitements of being in the ******* mode. regardless to the mode, they ended as teachings and learning moments for all. My behavioral practices are in line with the constitutional principles of individual conduct and I do not like to breach these standards, especially on the first engagement. 

In closing, I leave you with these words, Some may want to ship off negativity by others some where else, I say just change the last letter to the 20th letter of the ABC's, let them go where.    

I love you also

I caught a little flake in this thread for answering your post. There are a number of forum member that think the Hand Salute only reinforces blind obedience to our leaders. We both know that is an inaccurate statement. I do not have the same ability you do when it comes to insulting comments. I have the tendency to become a little angry, I learned recently to allow my comments to become disrespectful because that only puts me on the same level as my detractors. I am learning to control this negative part of my personality and that is all that is important.

Take care and have a great day. 

First To Fight Sir- Reply Victory       24th Infantry Division, Ft. Stewart Georgia 

 

 

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Manwon Lender
15 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

i think he might be wrong.  I think the salute may come from a similar place as the hat tip.

Yes he is very wrong, below is a link please read it. It will explain everything about this subject.

https://www.armystudyguide.com/content/Prep_For_Basic_Training/Prep_for_basic_customs_and_courtesies/the-hand-salute.shtml

Take care.

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DieChecker

I got chewed out once by a female lieutenant while crossing a parking lot. We were going opposite directions, parallel to each other, but about 30 feet apart. I thought the distance was enough that we didnt need to interact, but she thought different.

I made sure to salute her whenever we met after that. Regardless of the distance. 

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Peter shanks
On 1/6/2015 at 5:00 PM, danielost said:

i was told in the army, you aren't saluting the man but the rank, out of respect for said rank.

Their Rank and level of authority require subordinates to salute the officers in charge. Their rank does  not automatically earns the respect and trust, they must earn it on their own behalf. All Commission Officers are not good leaders, especially  straight out of training or when they are reassigned to a different unit.  During my career, I've had to put some of them in check and correct their actions, because they do not know everything. Good officers will listen and learn. Bad officers will soon be terminated. I have experienced both.

Rank without the honor and respect is like a car without an engine, the individuals will not be able to operate. 

Great Leaders as Commanders know they must show respect and honor  to earn the trust and respect of their subordinates in order to motivate their willingness to be successful in times of conflict.

Soldiers are already trained and taught During Basic Training that success requires  everyone to work together to achieve common goals. The only Color in the military is green in the army, marine corp, Navy, and blue in the Air force.  

I must say the military is a great place for all. The things learned will be helpful throughout your life.   

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Peter shanks
On 8/29/2019 at 12:12 PM, DieChecker said:

I got chewed out once by a female lieutenant while crossing a parking lot. We were going opposite directions, parallel to each other, but about 30 feet apart. I thought the distance was enough that we didnt need to interact, but she thought different.

I made sure to salute her whenever we met after that. Regardless of the distance. 

 

On 8/28/2019 at 10:30 PM, Manwon Lender said:

I caught a little flake in this thread for answering your post. There are a number of forum member that think the Hand Salute only reinforces blind obedience to our leaders. We both know that is an inaccurate statement. I do not have the same ability you do when it comes to insulting comments. I have the tendency to become a little angry, I learned recently to allow my comments to become disrespectful because that only puts me on the same level as my detractors. I am learning to control this negative part of my personality and that is all that is important.

Take care and have a great day. 

First To Fight Sir- Reply Victory       24th Infantry Division, Ft. Stewart Georgia 

 

 

As a Veteran, you automatically have my respect and I honor you for your service to our nation. You and I both know before most Officers become good Leaders, they receive information, teachings, wisdom, and knowledge from None Commission Officers. Senior NCO's  are the life line of the military, Most Command Sergeant Majors conduct themselves as if they stand on the right hand of GOD, and they displayed total care and concern for all subordinate members.  They stood for truth and honesty regardless to the issues at hand. Doing the right thing is always right then, and is best today. So when you are right, you have peace in your heart, nothing else matters.  

Some people are not just wrong, they are also evil. Remember what Paul Harvey said in 1965, See it At: 

    .  In closing, change the things you can, except the things you cannot change and be wise enough to know the difference between the TWO!  

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Manwon Lender
1 hour ago, Peter shanks said:

 

As a Veteran, you automatically have my respect and I honor you for your service to our nation. You and I both know before most Officers become good Leaders, they receive information, teachings, wisdom, and knowledge from None Commission Officers. Senior NCO's  are the life line of the military, Most Command Sergeant Majors conduct themselves as if they stand on the right hand of GOD, and they displayed total care and concern for all subordinate members.  They stood for truth and honesty regardless to the issues at hand. Doing the right thing is always right then, and is best today. So when you are right, you have peace in your heart, nothing else matters.  

Some people are not just wrong, they are also evil. Remember what Paul Harvey said in 1965, See it At: 

    .  In closing, change the things you can, except the things you cannot change and be wise enough to know the difference between the TWO!  

I totally agree with you, and also thank you for your service. Also fir the fact that we both know it doesn't end with retirement or discharge.

Take care

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Peter shanks
On 8/29/2019 at 12:12 PM, DieChecker said:

I got chewed out once by a female lieutenant while crossing a parking lot. We were going opposite directions, parallel to each other, but about 30 feet apart. I thought the distance was enough that we didn't need to interact, but she thought different.

I made sure to salute her whenever we met after that. Regardless of the distance. 

I cannot make a true and honest statement, because you did not give all the facts. on the incident.  As for myself, I always wanted to know what was right and proper. So I would have questioned My Sergeant about it.  I remember being told, if there is any situation about saluting, you cannot be wrong by doing do.

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DieChecker
2 hours ago, Peter shanks said:

I cannot make a true and honest statement, because you did not give all the facts. on the incident.  As for myself, I always wanted to know what was right and proper. So I would have questioned My Sergeant about it.  I remember being told, if there is any situation about saluting, you cannot be wrong by doing do.

I looked up the current regs, but didn't see anything regarding distance. I imagine if you are 100 feet away and the officer believes you should, then you should. 

Going to your NCO for advise is fine, but going to your NCO to complain is weak.

I only meant to share an experience, not to require answers.

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