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Yamato

Free Community College is a Bad Idea

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Yamato

Some sources are provided in the video description. What makes Julie a real gem isn't her libertarian politics but her willingness to analyze and question policy. Why can't liberals and conservatives do that?

We all know how she looks and how she sounds. Let's try to focus on what she says this time. :)

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bubblykiss

She is a genius.

She was able to deduce that free college would cost tax payers money....which would raise their income potential and tax income.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.I._Bill

Put millions through college that would never have gone. Which lead to the economic miracle of the 1950-60s instead of another depression. Which was made possible with free money. That was in turn paid back by the higher wage earning tax payers that were freshly educated, for free.

edit;

I would be interested to see what this charming peach has to say about socialized capital punishment....which is not really free, as the tax payers have to pay to incarcerate, put on trial and then foot the bill just to kill a man. Outrageous! The executed should finance their own execution and trials! If our society wants you dead for your crimes, you should pay for your fair share! All of it.

No more socialized capital punishment!

Edited by bubblykiss
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Yamato

It would raise for some and lower for others. It would shift their income potential and tax income in the trade-offs she was also smart enough to deduce. But if you're smart enough to believe in "free money", then hey, just like "free college", there is no scarcity of resources in those economics so bombs away. When money becomes free, what isn't?

We love to talk about freedom don't we? Is being entitled to get everything for free what freedom means?

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Michelle

Given the choice between paying for a couple of years of college or paying benefits for the rest of their lives....lets see...I choose college.

One stipulation that wasn't considered in Tennessee is the ability to pay for it, everyone gets it for free, or the ability to get grants by the individual though. That's becoming a problem because the money has been allocated, isn't being applied for and distributed. If it's not used it's lost in bureaucracy.

Edited by Michelle
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bubblykiss

It would raise for some and lower for others. It would shift their income potential and tax income in the trade-offs she was also smart enough to deduce. But if you're smart enough to believe in "free money", then hey, just like "free college", there is no scarcity of resources in those economics so bombs away. When money becomes free, what isn't?

We love to talk about freedom don't we? Is being entitled to get everything for free what freedom means?

I think libraries need some more scarcity.

And only those who access them need to fund them.

I mean all of that unlimited access to free books and computers and electricity and information is Funded by everyone!

All of us! We all have to pay for something we don't all use just because it has a potential benefit to anyone who is interested in using it!

It makes me wish my private fleet of dirigible aerocraft and atomic powered zeppelins were allowed to machine gun the impoverish societal leeches that did not have the forsight to be born white, male and upper-class.

I am glad she decided to use a free mass media outlet to communicate her message about not liking free stuff.

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Yamato
I am glad she decided to use a free mass media outlet to communicate her message about not liking free stuff.

Nothing is free. She realizes that, that's why she puts it in quotes.

She had to buy a camera to film herself in a room she's paying to live in, with electricity and internet access that she pays for, with video editing software that she spent the time using to produce the video herself. She has an audience on Youtube, maybe Youtube should be paying her.

What you're saying is more akin to the federal government paying Youtube's bills therefore the quality of the programming on Youtube is somehow expected to improve.

What about our scholarly students who actually earned their "free" education? Let's just pat them on the head and inform them that their hard work won't be necessary anymore, it's free for everyone now. That'll really bolster our national intellect, wow.

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acidhead

The free lunch myth. Wait for it. It'll cost much more than estimated.

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Yamato

Given the choice between paying for a couple of years of college or paying benefits for the rest of their lives....lets see...I choose college.

If you believe that the free market leaves our society welfare laden such that more education would reduce said poverty, there will be a Presidential candidate for you, coming soon.

If it's not used it's lost in bureaucracy.

I don't get it. Sounds illegal, at least on the state level. But it also sounds like they're not keeping up with their books already no pun intended. Probably not a good idea to trust the bureaucracy with even more than they can't handle already.

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and then

The free lunch myth. Wait for it. It'll cost much more than estimated.

It will also be like the grand new approach to healthcare - the quality will go down as the price goes up.

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Yamato

The free lunch myth. Wait for it. It'll cost much more than estimated.

"Free money". The death of economics.

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third_eye

Prof Bloom got into quite a sticky mess when this was published ~ quite unfairly but the counter media frenzy generated by the nay sayers was way out of proportion ~

Allan Bloom The Closing of the American mind - google links

Except for the unfortunate title choice ~ its something well worth having a peek ~ considering the things associated with all things else in the 'Minds' of America today

~

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The point all seem to be missing in this case is that, while it may cost money to train a workforce it also brings higher revenues to have a trained workforce. Wherein I am skeptical about the Community College idea. We need more people capable of building something, not more people capable of pushing a pencil. Additionally, without trying to be insulting, not everybody is college material but on the other hand they are quite capable craftsmen (and women).

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third_eye

Its a knee jerk reaction towards 'as long as its not on my own backyard ' ~

~

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Stubbly_Dooright

My husband and I had this 'discussion' just the other day. We both agree, it's not free of course. Yeah, I would think that Obama knows that, I just think that I understand the thought behind it. I agree with the lady in the OP video though. I asked my husband, if getting a degree is 'free', does it devalue the quality of the education. I know, what it means when it becomes free, because it's paid through somewhere else, and then those participating it may not see the value in it like they did before. What the lady in the video saying about the devaluing of the degrees with them becoming free and now for all, I think would devalue it. I hadn't realized and yet I should have noticed, that yes even the four year degrees are not getting you the job you worked for, and the higher degrees are what are now you need. (yet the quality of the salary is probably the same :rolleyes: )

The point all seem to be missing in this case is that, while it may cost money to train a workforce it also brings higher revenues to have a trained workforce. Wherein I am skeptical about the Community College idea. We need more people capable of building something, not more people capable of pushing a pencil. Additionally, without trying to be insulting, not everybody is college material but on the other hand they are quite capable craftsmen (and women).

As a graduate of a community college (I did later transfer to a state university and graduated), it makes me wonder. I wonder if everyone, I notice some, look down at community college. So I observe basically, a particular higher place of learning, which tends to be a place for those who probably couldn't get into a even higher place of learning, (ok, that could be me) goes there instead. So, I think there maybe a certain educational stigma to that. Now, if you have a free community college situation, I agree with her, I think there might be an even more of a devaluing of it. It gets me that employers are raising the standards, and in my feeling, not the pay. Like I said, I think Obama has a nice thought, without saying it all ;), but yes there is definitely more to the story.

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Gromdor

The point all seem to be missing in this case is that, while it may cost money to train a workforce it also brings higher revenues to have a trained workforce. Wherein I am skeptical about the Community College idea. We need more people capable of building something, not more people capable of pushing a pencil. Additionally, without trying to be insulting, not everybody is college material but on the other hand they are quite capable craftsmen (and women).

I disagree with the craftsman statement. There have been some people that I have had to convince to pursue fields of work other than a skilled trade because they were so clumsy, inept, or stupid that they posed an actual physical hazard to themselves and others. (Had one guy stab himself in the head, light himself on fire, and nearly fall 40' to his death all before 9:30 break)

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As a graduate of a community college (I did later transfer to a state university and graduated), it makes me wonder. I wonder if everyone, I notice some, look down at community college. So I observe basically, a particular higher place of learning, which tends to be a place for those who probably couldn't get into a even higher place of learning, (ok, that could be me) goes there instead. So, I think there maybe a certain educational stigma to that. Now, if you have a free community college situation, I agree with her, I think there might be an even more of a devaluing of it. It gets me that employers are raising the standards, and in my feeling, not the pay. Like I said, I think Obama has a nice thought, without saying it all ;), but yes there is definitely more to the story.

There seems to be a stigma to all who have not been to Harvard and Yale, but that is quite wrong, because if we see some fine examples (some even reaching the position of Prezz) we should wonder why...

No, my point is much more that any work, regardless of what it is, is necessary and should be adequately remunerated and respected. Strangely we only respect the most social destructive work....like investment banker...

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Rafterman

The point all seem to be missing in this case is that, while it may cost money to train a workforce it also brings higher revenues to have a trained workforce. Wherein I am skeptical about the Community College idea. We need more people capable of building something, not more people capable of pushing a pencil. Additionally, without trying to be insulting, not everybody is college material but on the other hand they are quite capable craftsmen (and women).

But the question is, "are you really training a workforce" or you simply going to produce a lot of folks with worthless degrees who will be working in the same kinds of jobs they could have had without the degree? If the government wants to support any kind of "free" education, then let it be training in the trades.

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Wickian

Socialism, one inch at a time. Well in our case a social democracy I guess. Either the government borrows more money to fund their ever increasing "free stuff" pile, or taxes increase on everyone. I'm not against the idea of a few free years of community college(although I don't see the point since it's pretty cheap anyway), but I don't like the direction such changes lead to.

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But the question is, "are you really training a workforce" or you simply going to produce a lot of folks with worthless degrees who will be working in the same kinds of jobs they could have had without the degree? If the government wants to support any kind of "free" education, then let it be training in the trades.

That is exactly what I have been saying in the second part of my post.

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aztek

that is not such a good idea imo. no point to spend moeny on those that will drop out few semesters later. i do not understand parents who teach their kids from chilhood, "you have to go to colledge" than they think that once they graduate from colledge they are set for life, well, i see many colledge graduates that can shred their diploma. thier computer science degree worth 0 if you drive ambulette van. and unfortunately i know of quite a few people like that, i my self graduated and had computer science major, but went into totaly different field, and i'm quite happy i switched, colledge degree did not help me one bit.

i will not be telling my kids that they have to go to colledge, they will have to first figure what they want to do in life, than follow their interest, if it means they need to go to colledge, they will, but i wont be making them, unlike many parents i know.

Edited by aztek
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Rafterman

Then there's the other reason this won't happen - backlash from traditional four-year colleges who will see a tremendous drop in revenue if this were to get implemented.

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F3SS

I don't need some chic on YouTube to explain the fallacies of this. Free anything gets taken advantage of in a negative way far more than a positive way and squandered. You know how many people have a hard time taking their education seriously when their own money is paying for it? Heck, I was one of them here and there throughout tech school. I made it through ok but I did a lot of reflecting and hindsighting in those ten years it took me to pay off those loans afterwards. Reflecting on what I wish I knew then and did then and not all neccesarily how I conducted myself throughout those two years but mostly looking back made me realize I never should've gone at all. Things turned out ok but that's two years I could've done something more productive and lucrative and ten years more of paying back $30k+ all of which I'll never get back. In short, no shortage of regret but a lot of wisdom and character building were a side effect so there is a bright side.

Mostly though, making schooling free will be something people do to shut their parents up far more than than something people do to better themselves. Look to places like Devry Institute and all those institute commercial places that are notorious for people attending as part of some government paid program. They're a joke for many and they're also money making factories churning out class after class of underachievers with degrees sent into the real world to fail. Free community college would be no different not to mention that if the Feds are in charge they will surely set quotas and subpar achievement standards to make themselves look good and use the stats to garner votes. I guarantee it.

Edited by F3SS
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Yamato

The point all seem to be missing in this case is that, while it may cost money to train a workforce it also brings higher revenues to have a trained workforce. Wherein I am skeptical about the Community College idea. We need more people capable of building something, not more people capable of pushing a pencil. Additionally, without trying to be insulting, not everybody is college material but on the other hand they are quite capable craftsmen (and women).

There are programs like that already. I had nothing left to do my senior year of high school after noon, but they wouldn't just let me go home either, so I took a three hour elective learning automotive mechanics down the street. Some students did this for two years, so it wouldn't be much of a stretch to just add a 13th grade and give them a six hour school day instead of a three.

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Yamato

If someone can get into Ivy League schools, why shouldn't they be free? They don't contribute to all the benefits to our country this community college idea is professed to deliver? Why shouldn't graduate degrees be free?

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Doc Socks Junior

Graduate degrees in some science disciplines are free! Woo!

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