Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

In 21st century UK a judge actually said this


danielost

Recommended Posts

If you are 44...you know better. If you are 44...you know it is: A. against the law. B. totally unethical C. just plain wrong.

Somebody has to be the adult...in this case...lured or not...manipulated or not...the 44 year old is the adult!

Regardless of the ploys or manipulations of a 16 yr old girl...this guy made a decision..against his better judgement...knowing that the ramifications would be huge...and he chose what he chose. That makes HIM responsible. She is 16...she may have been all that. Doesn't matter. He is the one who is guilty and he should have faced the full extent of the law.

so where does this stop. what if she had been 18 or 25, when does age no longer enter into it. specifically if the judge is correct and she was the predator.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

so where does this stop. what if she had been 18 or 25, when does age no longer enter into it. specifically if the judge is correct and she was the predator.

??

...huh...

Can we just deal with the fact...he was 44...she was 16...I don't give a bloody goddamm what she did or didn't do...the judge was WRONG!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The teacher bears full responsibility for what happens in a classroom like this. Put it this way- if a student is in their final year after repeating a grade or two they could potentially be 20 years old. A teacher straight out of university could potentially be 21 years old. If they hook up for sex the TEACHER IS IN THE WRONG!

In saying that, the young woman in this particular situation was also very much in the wrong, she isn't a "victim" in any of this at all.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The teacher bears full responsibility for what happens in a classroom like this. Put it this way- if a student is in their final year after repeating a grade or two they could potentially be 20 years old. A teacher straight out of university could potentially be 21 years old. If they hook up for sex the TEACHER IS IN THE WRONG!

In saying that, the young woman in this particular situation was also very much in the wrong, she isn't a "victim" in any of this at all.

Actually PA...I think she is a victim. I think she is a victim because...as a teacher of 44 years...meaning he has been a teacher for probably 20 years or so...he had an opportunity to 'counsel' this girl...offering her some good advice...rather than allowing her to seduce him. All 16 year olds believe in their own minds that they already know all there is to know. So by allowing her to seduce him he did victimize her. She wasn't 26...she was 16...so she was at least the victim of a missed opportunity to a better understanding of her situation in life. Plus...now she is involved in a court case of international infamy...none of which was her fault. The 'choice' he made brought all of this to bear on her, when the correct thing to do would have been to counsel her. So, she is at the very least a victim by default of his bad choices.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I want to add that a teacher is in a dominant position, and since she was 16 even more. I am 27 now and sometimes still dream about my teachers, how they sucked and how they behaved, they have massive influence on a teenager. And even if she tried to seduce him, so what he is a teacher FFS and also very old O.o

Edited by hellwyr
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weird case this one....I can only assume there is a hell of a lot of info that the judge was privy to that we are not seeing, hence the ruling. Strange case all round...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually PA...I think she is a victim. I think she is a victim because...as a teacher of 44 years...meaning he has been a teacher for probably 20 years or so...he had an opportunity to 'counsel' this girl...offering her some good advice...rather than allowing her to seduce him. All 16 year olds believe in their own minds that they already know all there is to know. So by allowing her to seduce him he did victimize her. She wasn't 26...she was 16...so she was at least the victim of a missed opportunity to a better understanding of her situation in life. Plus...now she is involved in a court case of international infamy...none of which was her fault. The 'choice' he made brought all of this to bear on her, when the correct thing to do would have been to counsel her. So, she is at the very least a victim by default of his bad choices.

If you're using that as the criteria for victimisation then every time a kid cuts school they are a victim, every time a kid fails to complete homework they are a victim. As I said, this is entirely the fault of the teacher so don't take this in any way as a "oh the poor teacher" (as a teacher myself I have no sympathy for a teacher who does this), but the young woman is by no means an innocent victim here. And that's all I'm really trying to say.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you're using that as the criteria for victimisation then every time a kid cuts school they are a victim, every time a kid fails to complete homework they are a victim. As I said, this is entirely the fault of the teacher so don't take this in any way as a "oh the poor teacher" (as a teacher myself I have no sympathy for a teacher who does this), but the young woman is by no means an innocent victim here. And that's all I'm really trying to say.

I know, I get what you are saying. 'innocent' victim...no she isn't. But now her whole life is screwed up...much more than not completing a homework assignment. And so...she is a victim of his inappropriate response to her seduction. She was going to screw her life up anyway most likely, and this is my point...instead of helping her to see that...he actively participated in it...innocent? No. Victim nonetheless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i started this thread, because i was upset about what the judge ruled. but now i find myself defending the judge. funny hoe things turn around in a page or two. i still think the ruling was wrong. but, if the judge was going to lay any fault on the girl, then the judge should have punished her too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i started this thread, because i was upset about what the judge ruled. but now i find myself defending the judge. funny hoe things turn around in a page or two. i still think the ruling was wrong. but, if the judge was going to lay any fault on the girl, then the judge should have punished her too.

punished her lol, can it get any more ridiculous. Even if she had grabbed his crotch it doesnt mean the teacher has to engage in a sexual relationship with her. The right thing to do would be to give her an appropriate punishment as teacher, or just inform her parents or the school psychologist. That is hypothetical and I do not think that is what happened here, she probably stalked him had a crash on him that's all and maybe made some raunchy jokes.

Edited by hellwyr
Link to comment
Share on other sites

punished her lol, can it get any more ridiculous. Even if she had grabbed his crotch it doesnt mean the teacher has to engage in a sexual relationship with her. The right thing to do would be to give her an appropriate punishment as teacher, or just inform her parents or the school psychologist. That is hypothetical and I do not think that is what happened here, she probably stalked him had a crash on him that's all and maybe made some raunchy jokes.

reread what i posted. the judge couldn't have punished her, because she wasn't on trail. as for the impact of what the judge said about her. that will only last a short time until everyone forgets. maybe after she gradulates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know, I get what you are saying. 'innocent' victim...no she isn't. But now her whole life is screwed up...much more than not completing a homework assignment. And so...she is a victim of his inappropriate response to her seduction. She was going to screw her life up anyway most likely, and this is my point...instead of helping her to see that...he actively participated in it...innocent? No. Victim nonetheless.

Is her life really that screwed up? Do you really think two months from now her name (I don't even know what her name is, I haven't really read the actual article, just the commentary about it) will mean squat to anyone at all?

But I do agree that the teacher missed an opportunity to try and nudge her back onto a different path. But being a teacher myself I cannot see that notifying his superiors or her parents would change a thing except that he wouldn't have slept with her. And since I've already agreed that he was 100% totally wrong for doing so I really don't know what more I can say.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree what he did was wrong but shouldn't we telling kids from an early not to put themselves into these position?cant we be telling that it's okay to have a crush on an adult or even teacher but that doesn't mean they should live out these fantasies. Shouldn't we be telling them that if they do seduce teachers that they will get hurt and they will get used. We should be giving kids critical thinking skills and aiding in emotional development which doesn't seem to at at all present being taught. When I was young it was drilled into my skull by my parents that there are certain boundaries they must not cross and that doing and going to certain things and places was ill advised and tbh I am glad they did. They also told that sex i should not be used as a weapon .we all were kids once , we all had a teacher or adult that we fancied but didn't seduce them because our parents raised us with common sense and actual values.they taught us if you do something you know is stupid and wrong accept the consequences.i agree teaching teachers to report predatory students is a good idea,but teaching kids not be predators and to avoid predation will be even be more effective. Geez we teach kids this stuff about using the Internet why shouldn't be teaching this about real life. My point is this generation is the most sanitized,over victimised generation ever who are given no chance to develop important critical and emotional skills at all.its like we want our kids to be the victim and get into this sort of trouble

http://www.dailymail...ation-Wuss.html

http://m.vanityfair....ton-ellis/15837

you might ask what would a 44 year old see in a 16 year old. I ask what would a 16 year old see in a 44 year old.

When I was 16 ten years ago you know what we did in school we were watching Disney cartoons, drawing pictures with crayons.seriously at that age we were not taught how to think critically and develop emotionally. We just being treated like pre pubescent six year olds. I mean cmon if weren't for my parents I would have probably ended up like a whiny victim who can't take responsibility for for my actions. My angle on the issue of this we are treating post pubescent individuals like pre pubescent invididuales stripping them of all critical thinking and onus of responsibility. I am sick and tired of people saying a post pubescent 15/16 is the same as a 3 or 5 year old. At 15/16 you should know right from wrong you should be able to critically evaluate situations and you should be more mature than they currently act. Thanks to our infantilisation of teenagers We have 15/16 years olds who have the maturity of 6 year olds.22-27 year olds who have the maturity of what we'd normally associate with 12 year olds at the rate we are going they won't reach adulthood (or what we expect from 18 year olds)until at least 40.maybe if we gave kids the ability to think critically and act more mature they might actually act more mature and PREVENT such thins from happening. Saying kids will be kids is an excuse for bad parenting. It's part of this blame culture that's present in both the UK and US where the majority of these cases happen(from ireland and it never happens here at all).Why is it that its this generation that are preyed on and this generation that are getting themselves into this sort of trouble

Edited by carlowplayer
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually PA...I think she is a victim. I think she is a victim because...as a teacher of 44 years...meaning he has been a teacher for probably 20 years or so...he had an opportunity to 'counsel' this girl...offering her some good advice...rather than allowing her to seduce him. All 16 year olds believe in their own minds that they already know all there is to know. So by allowing her to seduce him he did victimize her. She wasn't 26...she was 16...so she was at least the victim of a missed opportunity to a better understanding of her situation in life. Plus...now she is involved in a court case of international infamy...none of which was her fault. The 'choice' he made brought all of this to bear on her, when the correct thing to do would have been to counsel her. So, she is at the very least a victim by default of his bad choices.

She lied about being in a car crash,lied about being mistreated at home.At the trial she even admitted this.She stalked him,and accessed private info on him on the school computers to find out where he lived.She was described by friends as "the sort of person who lures someone in,uses them and then spits them out".She initiated the sexual encounter she knew it was wrong.She could have abandoned the relationship anytime she wanted but she continued having sex with him at his home for 18 MONTHS!!.She knew what she was doing would result in him getting fired.Yes he made a bad decision but if we keep putting our heads in the sand and still think that a 15/16 year old can still be the victim no matter how responsible they were for starting and maintaining a relationship they know is wrong we are going to see the same thing happen again and again.Students will start thinking its okay to seduce their teachers and adults and then use the "position of trust" clause to say: " I was the victim,They used me"

Edited by carlowplayer
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree what he did was wrong but shouldn't we telling kids from an early not to put themselves into these position?cant we be telling that it's okay to have a crush on an adult or even teacher but that doesn't mean they should live out these fantasies. Shouldn't we be telling them that if they do seduce teachers that they will get hurt and they will get used. We should be giving kids critical thinking skills and aiding in emotional development which doesn't seem to at at all present being taught. When I was young it was drilled into my skull by my parents that there are certain boundaries they must not cross and that doing and going to certain things and places was ill advised and tbh I am glad they did. They also told that sex i should not be used as a weapon .we all were kids once , we all had a teacher or adult that we fancied but didn't seduce them because our parents raised us with common sense and actual values.they taught us if you do something you know is stupid and wrong accept the consequences.i agree teaching teachers to report predatory students is a good idea,but teaching kids not be predators and to avoid predation will be even be more effective. Geez we teach kids this stuff about using the Internet why shouldn't be teaching this about real life. My point is this generation is the most sanitized,over victimised generation ever who are given no chance to develop important critical and emotional skills at all.its like we want our kids to be the victim and get into this sort of trouble

http://www.dailymail...ation-Wuss.html

http://m.vanityfair....ton-ellis/15837

you might ask what would a 44 year old see in a 16 year old. I ask what would a 16 year old see in a 44 year old.

When I was 16 ten years ago you know what we did in school we were watching Disney cartoons, drawing pictures with crayons.seriously at that age we were not taught how to think critically and develop emotionally. We just being treated like pre pubescent six year olds. I mean cmon if weren't for my parents I would have probably ended up like a whiny victim who can't take responsibility for for my actions. My angle on the issue of this we are treating post pubescent individuals like pre pubescent invididuales stripping them of all critical thinking and onus of responsibility. I am sick and tired of people saying a post pubescent 15/16 is the same as a 3 or 5 year old. At 15/16 you should know right from wrong you should be able to critically evaluate situations and you should be more mature than they currently act. Thanks to our infantilisation of teenagers We have 15/16 years olds who have the maturity of 6 year olds.22-27 year olds who have the maturity of what we'd normally associate with 12 year olds at the rate we are going they won't reach adulthood (or what we expect from 18 year olds)until at least 40.maybe if we gave kids the ability to think critically and act more mature they might actually act more mature and PREVENT such thins from happening. Saying kids will be kids is an excuse for bad parenting. It's part of this blame culture that's present in both the UK and US where the majority of these cases happen(from ireland and it never happens here at all).Why is it that its this generation that are preyed on and this generation that are getting themselves into this sort of trouble

their talking of raising the childhood age to 26.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She lied about being in a car crash,lied about being mistreated at home.At the trial she even admitted this.She stalked him,and accessed private info on him on the school computers to find out where he lived.She was described by friends as "the sort of person who lures someone in,uses them and then spits them out".She initiated the sexual encounter she knew it was wrong.She could have abandoned the relationship anytime she wanted but she continued having sex with him at his home for 18 MONTHS!!.She knew what she was doing would result in him getting fired.Yes he made a bad decision but if we keep putting our heads in the sand and still think that a 15/16 year old can still be the victim no matter how responsible they were for starting and maintaining a relationship they know is wrong we are going to see the same thing happen again and again.Students will start thinking its okay to seduce their teachers and adults and then use the "position of trust" clause to say: " I was the victim,They used me"

i don't know how you did it. but you got the wrong name in your quote.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you might ask what would a 44 year old see in a 16 year old. I ask what would a 16 year old see in a 44 year old.

...and that's a great point. She obviously has some problems...but rather than address the problems...he had sex with her. I don't blame her. I blame him.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i blame them both. she knew what she was doing. as stated she isn't 6 years old.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's definitely bad parenting going on here (unless the young woman is a psychopath I which case she needs mental help). The teacher is 100% at fault here but not for a moment am I going to say "will somebody please think of the children" - you'll notice in all my posts here I've referred to her as "young woman" rather than "child", that's exactly what she is.

Edited by Paranoid Android
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That depends on your definition of "child". I would call her an adolescent.

according to science she is an adult, because she is old enough to bear babies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That depends on your definition of "child". I would call her an adolescent.

I'm using the legal definition as outlined in Australia's Child Protection laws. 16-17 years old a person is defined as a "young person", not a child any longer. Once they hit 18 they are adults.

I'm not sure what the legal definitions are in the UK, so I'm obviously approaching it from my cultural perspective.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

they did nothing, strictly speaking, illegal.

What? He was found guilty of two counts of sexual activity with a minor. That is illegal.

Actually, re-reading the story I don't think the sentence was too lenient. He was found guilty of two counts of sexual activity with a child by a person in a position of trust. He wasn't found guilty of any other charges including the one relating to when she was 15. Was he stupid? Yes. Was it wrong? Yes. But he's lost his job, is on the sex offenders register indefinitely and no longer allowed to work with children. Plus with all the details in the press, it's unlikely that he'll ever have a decent job at all!!

I would agree he is being punished for the rest of his life anyway. His professional career is over. He'll probably have to move and work somewhere he very much does not want to. Generally the rest of his life will be miserable. Though I, myself, would have liked to see him do those 18 months.

Blaming the girl? Isn't that like blaming a rape victim who was wearing almost no cloths and got drunk? "She had it coming"? She's a kid. Stupid....

according to science she is an adult, because she is old enough to bear babies.

And according to science her brain is still developing till she is 21.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What? He was found guilty of two counts of sexual activity with a minor. That is illegal.

I would agree he is being punished for the rest of his life anyway. His professional career is over. He'll probably have to move and work somewhere he very much does not want to. Generally the rest of his life will be miserable. Though I, myself, would have liked to see him do those 18 months.

Blaming the girl? Isn't that like blaming a rape victim who was wearing almost no cloths and got drunk? "She had it coming"? She's a kid. Stupid....

And according to science her brain is still developing till she is 21.

no, new study says until she's 26. personally, i don't think the brain stops growing as long as you keep learning new things.

http://phys.org/news/2010-12-brain-fully-mature-30s-40s.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141164708

in any case. science indicates that an animal that can reproduce it is an adult. it isn't when the animal stops growing, because some never stop growing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.