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Pope - says he would punch someone


bee

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Considering the times its hardly anything surprising ~ day in day out the media has been bombarding the the young and impressionable minds with all things 'counter culture' starting from the days they learned to sit still in front of that magic window screen to the world

~ hell , I can hardly bear to sit through an entire episode of the 'cartoons' tailored for the kids much less those mindless mayhem destroy everything in sight to save some precious world that is being destroyed ~ the answers and solutions always and never but anything else but bigger 'BOOMS' or some magical weapon that does the same one way or another ~ that's the solutions the minds are being hard wired for ~ notice how the trend is leaning towards unequivocally Love but quaintly forgets Respect in the equation ?

~

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His Holiness' point was that Freedom of Speech must come with an understanding of the result of impact (if you will).

Sure you can show a picture of the Prophet Mouhammed looking like a Frengi in drag, that's free speech. But you need to be aware that people WILL take offence.

And you NEVER diss someone's mum. Doesn't matter if you're a garbage collector or the Pope, but mums are off limit*!

some of you guys are getting very Mafia-like about avenging any insult to your mothers..... :P

Like every mother is a grey haired frail little old weak lady that can't defend herself, in any way...

And a verbal insult could do untold damage to her....

Of course it's not nice if someone says nasty things about your Mom....

If someone was in my Mom's face insulting her...and she seemed incapable of coping with it...

I would probably get in between her and the person...look them in the eye, smile and say...

'please don't do that...it's not nice'....or something like that...

or firmly...'it's not nice, it's not clever...please grow up, stop it and go away'.....

*there was a well respected footballer here in Oz called Gordon Tallis whose mum was slagged off by some nimrod in the audience, he absolutely lost his nut at the bloke, and Tallis wasn't exactly the 'hot headed" sort or player. IIRC the dipstick in the audience copped a year's ban from the Footy for it.

when you show someone you are very annoyed and get angry....perhaps you are exposing where your weakness lies...?

.

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People in positions of authority should not be advocating violence as a solution to an insult though, even if it's half said in jest. It just sends out the wrong message.

exactly....the wrong message to 1.2 BILLION people...and his other comments about not making fun of religion etc

gives succour to people allowing themselves to be provoked and being violent in the name of religion ....

there are around 2.8 billion muslims...

http://www.muslimpopulation.com/World/

So in just a couple of minutes he managed to potentially encourage more violence in 4 billion people..... :w00t:

In a way... :)

.

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So in just a couple of minutes he managed to potentially encourage more violence in 4 billion people..... :w00t:

In a way... :)

.

Do you really believe that?

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Do you really believe that?

:)

a logical argument could be made...that that is what he did.......

but I was half joking....

probably only a BILLION people will become more inclined towards violence because of it..... ;)

phew

^_^

.

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A pope who can't be bothered to follow the teachings of Jesus. Hmm. This is not going to end well.

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I thought their stated aim was to avenge the insults to Allah?

IS is intent on establishing a Caliphate just for starters ....

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A pope who can't be bothered to follow the teachings of Jesus. Hmm. This is not going to end well.

On the contrary. Francis is just being honest.

He said earlier that he’s no holy man, that he is a sinner. Hypocrites were asking for their fainting couches, while I nodded with approval. True Christian – I’m not one, but the Pope should be – doesn’t forgive himself his own sins, the way hypocrites think they’re doing when they deny their sins or find excuses for them. True Christian must be aware of his sins and seek forgiveness.

Now, Francis just honestly said what he would do. Clearly, he admitted he wouldn’t be able to turn the other cheek in that particular situation. So he is no holy man. Just like he said earlier. Good. Holy people are not good at understanding the rest of us and understanding each other is how conflicts stop.

Of course, that’s just theory. No conflict in history has stopped yet. They’re just evolving through generations.

Besides, he’d only punch a guy, not cut his head off. There’s a huge difference there. We even have a sport where two guys... now the girls too... are punching each other and shake hands afterwards. I can’t imagine how you could put beheading in that context.

In short, go faint on that couch over there, but know that that's not what Jesus would do. He didn't cast the first stone, even though he actually was without sin.

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On the contrary. Francis is just being honest.

He said earlier that he’s no holy man, that he is a sinner. Hypocrites were asking for their fainting couches, while I nodded with approval. True Christian – I’m not one, but the Pope should be – doesn’t forgive himself his own sins, the way hypocrites think they’re doing when they deny their sins or find excuses for them. True Christian must be aware of his sins and seek forgiveness.

Now, Francis just honestly said what he would do. Clearly, he admitted he wouldn’t be able to turn the other cheek in that particular situation. So he is no holy man. Just like he said earlier. Good. Holy people are not good at understanding the rest of us and understanding each other is how conflicts stop.

Of course, that’s just theory. No conflict in history has stopped yet. They’re just evolving through generations.

Besides, he’d only punch a guy, not cut his head off. There’s a huge difference there. We even have a sport where two guys... now the girls too... are punching each other and shake hands afterwards. I can’t imagine how you could put beheading in that context.

In short, go faint on that couch over there, but know that that's not what Jesus would do. He didn't cast the first stone, even though he actually was without sin.

that would be fine for Catholic Joe Public but for the one man claiming to be ST Peter's lineal descendant. The guy in charge. Simply not acceptable.

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that would be fine for Catholic Joe Public but for the one man claiming to be ST Peter's lineal descendant. The guy in charge. Simply not acceptable.

You'd be useless in a crusade.

Kidding.

Seriously, would you prefer the Pope who says he wouldn't but he knows he would?

Isn't hypocrisy more dangerous, not to mention less moral, than punching someone?

edit: and, oh, don't get me started about St.Pete and his imperfections.

Edited by Helen of Annoy
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some of you guys are getting very Mafia-like about avenging any insult to your mothers..... :P

Like every mother is a grey haired frail little old weak lady that can't defend herself, in any way...

And a verbal insult could do untold damage to her....

Of course it's not nice if someone says nasty things about your Mom....

If someone was in my Mom's face insulting her...and she seemed incapable of coping with it...

I would probably get in between her and the person...look them in the eye, smile and say...

'please don't do that...it's not nice'....or something like that...

or firmly...'it's not nice, it's not clever...please grow up, stop it and go away'.....

when you show someone you are very annoyed and get angry....perhaps you are exposing where your weakness lies...?

.

Remember what Norman Bates said?

"A Boy's firs love is his mother"....

AND I've just creeped myself out.

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What plot?

I think the Pope has told the very simple truth--insulting people's religion or family or other important things will usually bring a reaction, oftentimes a violent reaction.

Art and humor CAN go to far, that's all. We should not be surprised when certain humans react in a violent manner when issues that are sacred to them are insulted.

Some will turn the other cheek, others will not. It's only human nature.

Christianity seems to want us to repress our human nature most of the time. We should be ashamed of our lusty thoughts, but violence is OK?

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Seriously, would you prefer the Pope who says he wouldn't but he knows he would?

Isn't hypocrisy more dangerous, not to mention less moral, than punching someone?

Hmm... I can appreciate the sentiment, but I suspect the human race wouldn't have survived this long if everyone always stated their thoughts freely, without diplomacy and tact.

<insert random smartass quote>

“With great power comes great responsibility”

- Voltaire (and Stan Lee :tsu:)

Edited by LV-426
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.

one of the videos about it...

some mixed messages and his friend, Mr Gasparri, looks a bit ..'OMG what's he going to say next'....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9oviltEw_I

We seem to have a video malfunction....

The Swiss Guard must have ........ummm.......had a little word with the Uploader...... :unsure2: .... B) .... :)

It can be seen here in the OP link...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2911370/Pope-arrives-Philippines-amid-massive-security-operation.html

.

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On the contrary. Francis is just being honest.

He said earlier that he’s no holy man, that he is a sinner. Hypocrites were asking for their fainting couches, while I nodded with approval. True Christian – I’m not one, but the Pope should be – doesn’t forgive himself his own sins, the way hypocrites think they’re doing when they deny their sins or find excuses for them. True Christian must be aware of his sins and seek forgiveness.

Now, Francis just honestly said what he would do. Clearly, he admitted he wouldn’t be able to turn the other cheek in that particular situation. So he is no holy man. Just like he said earlier. Good. Holy people are not good at understanding the rest of us and understanding each other is how conflicts stop.

Of course, that’s just theory. No conflict in history has stopped yet. They’re just evolving through generations.

Besides, he’d only punch a guy, not cut his head off. There’s a huge difference there. We even have a sport where two guys... now the girls too... are punching each other and shake hands afterwards. I can’t imagine how you could put beheading in that context.

In short, go faint on that couch over there, but know that that's not what Jesus would do. He didn't cast the first stone, even though he actually was without sin.

Well this Pope certainly doesn't have problem with displaying his 'sins'......

His imagined response to a friend saying a curse word about his mother breaks two of the famous Deadly Sins...

Wrath and Pride.....because insulting his mother would not harm her physically...she might not even hear

the insult...but it would be the Popes pride that would make him (hypothetically) angry and lash out and punch...

It's natural...he said...

Well...the feeling and desire might be a natural response for many but it would have been more helpful in these

violent times if the Church Head and Father Figure to over a billion Catholics could have explained that while

having the feeling might be natural...it doesn't have to be acted upon and that violence is not the answer..

that responding violently to verbal insults and/or provocation or perceived provocation is not a good thing -

I suppose it's best that he is honest and isn't a hypocrite and admits to having those feelings...but does that mean he is not

really suited to the job..? Not everyone wants to punch people who upset them...and like it or not he should

set an example.....he is listened to and revered....

Anyway....please excuse me now...I am feeling faint and need a lie down..... ;)

.

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exactly....the wrong message to 1.2 BILLION people...and his other comments about not making fun of religion etc

gives succour to people allowing themselves to be provoked and being violent in the name of religion ....

there are around 2.8 billion muslims...

http://www.muslimpopulation.com/World/

So in just a couple of minutes he managed to potentially encourage more violence in 4 billion people..... :w00t:

In a way... :)

.

Encourage more violence? Maybe, but not likely.

What he has done is put things in perspective. Even cartoonists have an obligation to act in a responsible matter. And I think they even pointed out that the masthead of the magazine bragged that it was irresponsible.

Usually, actions have consequences.

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Well this Pope certainly doesn't have problem with displaying his 'sins'......

His imagined response to a friend saying a curse word about his mother breaks two of the famous Deadly Sins...

Wrath and Pride.....because insulting his mother would not harm her physically...she might not even hear

the insult...but it would be the Popes pride that would make him (hypothetically) angry and lash out and punch...

It's natural...he said...

Well...the feeling and desire might be a natural response for many but it would have been more helpful in these

violent times if the Church Head and Father Figure to over a billion Catholics could have explained that while

having the feeling might be natural...it doesn't have to be acted upon and that violence is not the answer..

that responding violently to verbal insults and/or provocation or perceived provocation is not a good thing -

Punching as a possibility is natural. Yes, you’d expect the Pope to be all unnatural... no, seriously, all the celibacy, other cheek, fasting, penance, focusing on prayers... not natural. Not to elaborate on why. It makes sense for some, doesn’t for others, but that’s not the point.

I think the point is that in this particular case the Pope didn’t send any violent message.

A punch is symbolically violent, just like slapping. It’s a gesture of disapproval, not actual attempt to destroy someone.

Pope talked about hypothetical situation between two guys. A guy’s head won’t fall off. If it does, then there was something seriously wrong with his head, not Pope’s manners, because the etiquette is not the same in a decent company and among people who talk about your mother.

Someone go ahead and ask Francis if he’d punch a woman if she insulted him. He wouldn’t.

It’s the oldfashioned gentleman thing more than religious issue.

I suppose it's best that he is honest and isn't a hypocrite and admits to having those feelings...but does that mean he is not

really suited to the job..? Not everyone wants to punch people who upset them...and like it or not he should

set an example.....he is listened to and revered....

I certainly hope so, that Catholics will listen to the Pope.

His message was that we shouldn’t be violent, but we should express our disapproval.

Anyway....please excuse me now...I am feeling faint and need a lie down..... ;)

Has everyone read that?

I didn’t punch bee, she lied down on her own :D I'd never punch her. First. But I have ways of making otherwise good and kind people try punching me first :D

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What he has done is put things in perspective. Even cartoonists have an obligation to act in a responsible matter.

Usually, actions have consequences.

Well, in my opinion Ruth....the Pope didn't put things in perspective at all..... all I see is contradictions.

Basically he condoned that it's ok to strike back....hence "punching" someone if they offended his mother. (I think due to her faith)

What on earth does his mother have to do with anything in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo attack??

Weird comparison to make ? :unsure2:

He'd also expressed that it was an aberration to kill in the name of religion, and that religion should not be used to justify violence.

So in other words....you can punch someone "physically attack" if they offend.

But it's not ok to kill them.

Do you see the mixed messages and contradictions there?

Also, I found your remark harsh in regards to the cartoonists. They did not deserve to be shot down in cold blood because of a few sketches.

If we succumb to these terrorists by being afraid of expressing our freedom of speech.....then they win.

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Punching as a possibility is natural. Yes, you’d expect the Pope to be all unnatural... no, seriously, all the celibacy, other cheek, fasting, penance, focusing on prayers... not natural. Not to elaborate on why. It makes sense for some, doesn’t for others, but that’s not the point.

I think the point is that in this particular case the Pope didn’t send any violent message.

A punch is symbolically violent, just like slapping. It’s a gesture of disapproval, not actual attempt to destroy someone.

Pope talked about hypothetical situation between two guys. A guy’s head won’t fall off. If it does, then there was something seriously wrong with his head, not Pope’s manners, because the etiquette is not the same in a decent company and among people who talk about your mother.

Someone go ahead and ask Francis if he’d punch a woman if she insulted him. He wouldn’t.

It’s the oldfashioned gentleman thing more than religious issue.

I certainly hope so, that Catholics will listen to the Pope.

His message was that we shouldn’t be violent, but we should express our disapproval.

re the punching business.....

c'mon ..punching someone is not 'symbolically violent'.....it IS actually violent...

His message was mixed and confused....but part of his message clearly was that it was ok to punch someone

for a verbal insult - and he, to all intents and purposes, excused the Charlie Hebdo murders because the ruthless killers who

did it were 'provoked'......

by a drawing....

yes a drawing that they disapproved of but still just a drawing....

Has everyone read that?

I didn’t punch bee, she lied down on her own :D I'd never punch her. First. But I have ways of making otherwise good and kind people try punching me first :D

underlined - yes I've noticed..... :D .....

.

Edited by bee
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.

Alert ---- alert -----

The Vatican and the House of Saud are getting together to make the United Nations ensure EVERYONE has a computer that can do this....

But only 'people of faith' can actually make the Punch come out of the screen....their aggression is only natural you see, so that's fair... :whistle:

a-punch-in-the-face.jpeg?w=510

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You'd be useless in a crusade.

Kidding.

Seriously, would you prefer the Pope who says he wouldn't but he knows he would?

Isn't hypocrisy more dangerous, not to mention less moral, than punching someone?

edit: and, oh, don't get me started about St.Pete and his imperfections.

Well, seeing as you asked I would prefer a pope who, if he saw violence within him, meditated and prayed to control it. Or he could have phrased the comment differently to accentuate the teachings of his master on the subject.

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.

Alert ---- alert -----

The Vatican and the House of Saud are getting together to make the United Nations ensure EVERYONE has a computer that can do this....

But only 'people of faith' can actually make the Punch come out of the screen....their aggression is only natural you see, so that's fair... :whistle:

a-punch-in-the-face.jpeg?w=510

:lol:
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With all joking aside the above is how iv always viewed Jesus.

Maybe the pope read a diffrent book

Well he did beat those guys w/ a belt that one time.

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re the punching business.....

c'mon ..punching someone is not 'symbolically violent'.....it IS actually violent...

His message was mixed and confused....but part of his message clearly was that it was ok to punch someone

for a verbal insult - and he, to all intents and purposes, excused the Charlie Hebdo murders because the ruthless killers who

did it were 'provoked'......

by a drawing....

yes a drawing that they disapproved of but still just a drawing....

How acceptable a punch is, depends on local culture and context.

I agree that in matters that involve international crowd, it’s only wise to say things in the way that leaves as little as possible room for misinterpretations or misunderstandings.

I didn’t understand Pope’s statement as an attempt of excusing the murderers of the cartoonists, because there’s a world of difference between a punch and an automatic weapons assault.

I understood it in completely the opposite way: we feel like punching people sometimes. And sometimes we might not be able to control that urge.

No one pulled an AK out in that context. So let’s not equalize a punch, that is basically a “**** you too” gesture, with mass murders.

underlined - yes I've noticed..... :D .....

In my defence, I mostly bark so I don’t have to bite.

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