Pope - says he would punch someone

[Mr Supertypo]

Funny Mr Supertypo, I haven't seen anybody in this thread trying to press anything

Personally, all that I have seen in the discussion is differing points of views with some light heartedness thrown in.

I certainly would not refer to it as being a pointless discussion at all.

If somebody claims that the pope is in for violence, than its not light heartedness but plain out lie.

When a much admired and respected man/leader such as the Pope, who speaks and shares his thoughts on the world stage in front of millions

and millions of devoted followers..... people will listen to him....especially in light of the terrorism and atrocities that have recently taken place.

If he expresses something that may contradict the fundamental principles of Christian religion, then believe me, people will want to question

it and they have the right to do so.

Nobody is saying they shouldn, but since this is not the case, I dont know why you bring this up.

Nobody has shown any disrespect to the man, and out of all the Pontiffs before him IMO....he has the nicest face.

You can dream about him at night if you like, I dont care. But trying deliberately to change his words or "joking" about him condoning violence is disrespectful no matter how you twist and turn it.

[Mr Supertypo]

It's just really frustrating that people continue to say that the Pope is condoning violence when it has already been established he was staying you can't say things and expect certain people not to react. Not everyone has the same morality.

Exactly, bravo. But the "comedians" here, prefer talking about fantasy, than trying to understand simple concepts.

[Iron_Lotus]

whew someone needs a bowl of ice cream and a nap.

[godnodog]

Just like Djias said give the other side of the face, I hope the pope swings with the other arm

[odas]

Exactly, bravo. But the "comedians" here, prefer talking about fantasy, than trying to understand simple concepts.

I am trying to explain that on other threads but it is an impossible quest, my friend.

As for the Pope, he has all my respect.

[bee]

"Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me"

I saw in the news time ago a boy who committed suicide because he was gay. He was bullied both at school, church and home. Tell that to him. Words can kill and they can be even more painful than the biggest fist ever. Especially words coming from who you love.

While I take your point that words can 'hurt' - as in the sense that they bring up emotions - the 'Sticks and Stones' rhyme is referring

to actual physical hurt/harm that comes from another person -

In the example you gave - the boy committed suicide - which was physically hurting himself -

The emotion of 'feeling hurt' can be managed - or at least attempted to be managed depending on how compos mentis

the recipient is - like anything else is 'managed' ie (internal and external) methods and strategies -

Sometimes the severity of hurt can be termed bullying (ie in your example) and then other people, sometimes professionals

have to be brought in to help 'manage' the situation of the 'hurt'.....

Funnily enough - the last thing you said - about words being more painful than the biggest fist ever - "especially words

coming from who you love..."

Only yesterday I was severely tested in this regard - severely - and I will admit that I'm struggling

to manage the feeling of hurt that those words have brought up - (from my daughter) - but I'm getting there and I certainly have NO intention -

none what so ever - of expressing an emotional hurt with physically hurting her IN ANY WAY - I know I have to manage the hurt and

get myself on an even keel about it all - for my sake as well as hers...

People hurt / insult / provoke each other all the time, on purpose or unintentionally - it's how we 'manage' the hurt etc. that helps to

define who we are - - - ?

Now I'm not trying to make out I'm perfect - no way - none of us are perfect or in religious language - we're all sinners - including the Pope

(see how I brought it smack bang back on topic there) - - but inflicting physical hurt (bullet wound / bruise / black eye) is different

to the subjective emotion of hurt / insult / anger / pride etc. these emotions, at the end of the day can be 'managed' - as difficult as that can be -

either alone or with help -

Something tells me you are not going to like anything I say - but I can live with that -

.

Edited January 23, 2015 by bee

[GlitterRose]

Maybe he needs to ask himself that age old question...what would Jesus do?

[Helen of Annoy]

Maybe he needs to ask himself that age old question...what would Jesus do?

Jesus would tell you that we've been over and over this for 9 pages.

Jesus would probably read or at least skim threads in which he's about to post.

For one more time, just for you: Catholics are allowed self-defence and defending others who can't defend themselves.

Also, the Pope is about 70 years old, it was absolutely natural for his generation to defend women whose honour was verbally attacked with a punch. Or more of them. It's still quite natural for my generation too.

Whoever is telling you guys to be completely passive should be punched too. Because I'm personally certain that's exactly what Jesus would do.

[Mikolaj]

Jesus would tell you that we've been over and over this for 9 pages.

Jesus would probably read or at least skim threads in which he's about to post.

For one more time, just for you: Catholics are allowed self-defence and defending others who can't defend themselves.

Also, the Pope is about 70 years old, it was absolutely natural for his generation to defend women whose honour was verbally attacked with a punch. Or more of them. It's still quite natural for my generation too.

Whoever is telling you guys to be completely passive should be punched too. Because I'm personally certain that's exactly what Jesus would do.

In fact Jesus defended woman dignity from "scavengers".

John 8:7 : "...so he stood up again and said, "All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!"

[Helen of Annoy]

In fact Jesus defended woman dignity from "scavengers".

John 8:7 : "...so he stood up again and said, "All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!"

Jesus knew how to keep his cool.

Most of average people lose their tempers on daily basis. I know I do.

So I’m doing my best to limit my reactions. And, when I think of it, I’m actually doing what Jesus would do – I’m doing unto others as I would have them do unto me.

[odas]

Jesus would tell you that we've been over and over this for 9 pages.

Jesus would probably read or at least skim threads in which he's about to post.

For one more time, just for you: Catholics are allowed self-defence and defending others who can't defend themselves.

Also, the Pope is about 70 years old, it was absolutely natural for his generation to defend women whose honour was verbally attacked with a punch. Or more of them. It's still quite natural for my generation too.

Whoever is telling you guys to be completely passive should be punched too. Because I'm personally certain that's exactly what Jesus would do.

Bravo!!!

You know, questions like what would Jesus do, freak me out. We are not Jesus, I am not Jesus, the Pope is not Jesus. Jesus is unique, JC that is.

[Mikolaj]

Jesus knew how to keep his cool.

Most of average people lose their tempers on daily basis. I know I do.

So I’m doing my best to limit my reactions. And, when I think of it, I’m actually doing what Jesus would do – I’m doing unto others as I would have them do unto me.

Its psychology. Jesus knew what now scientists dicovered. When you are annoyed by someone, try to be compassioned with him/her. Try to understand his/her views no matter how disorted they are. In Jesus words (paraphrased) show some love. Every good psychiatrist will tell you that. To avoid explosion of emotions because someone annoys you, be compassionate. You will notice how you feel calm, person you argue with will notice that you are not his/her enemy. Perhaps he/she will see you as "rabi"-teacher. Its training.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Mikolaj

[Careful_perspective]

Maybe he needs to ask himself that age old question...what would Jesus do?

I suggest you watch the video of what the Pope actually said because it seems like you are just commenting based on the headline of this post/news article headlines.

Edit because what I said may seem snarky and that's not my intention.

Edited January 24, 2015 by woodsbooger

[GlitterRose]

Jesus would tell you that we've been over and over this for 9 pages.

Jesus would probably read or at least skim threads in which he's about to post.

For one more time, just for you: Catholics are allowed self-defence and defending others who can't defend themselves.

Also, the Pope is about 70 years old, it was absolutely natural for his generation to defend women whose honour was verbally attacked with a punch. Or more of them. It's still quite natural for my generation too.

Whoever is telling you guys to be completely passive should be punched too. Because I'm personally certain that's exactly what Jesus would do.

No matter what people have written in the now 10 pages of this discussion, I can still add what I think about it.

I also don't need anyone telling me about Catholics, since I was raised Catholic.

If you wanna punch me for saying what is quite obvious, then I challenge you to do it through the screen.

The Pope seems to typically be a decent guy. I just don't agree with what he said this time, especially regarding religion and satire. There's no excuse for violence against people just because they speak out about religion. There should be freedom of speech and freedom of expression without fear that some extremist faction is going to kill you over it.

Edited January 24, 2015 by ChaosRose

[Careful_perspective]

No matter what people have written in the now 10 pages of this discussion, I can still add what I think about it.

I also don't need anyone telling me about Catholics, since I was raised Catholic.

If you wanna punch me for saying what is quite obvious, then I challenge you to do it through the screen.

The Pope seems to typically be a decent guy. I just don't agree with what he said this time, especially regarding religion and satire. There's no excuse for violence against people just because they speak out about religion.

I just..he didn't say he would punch someone, he said that you cannot insult someone without at least anticipating some sort of consequence like punching. Not everyone follows the same moral compass, some people, when they perceive they have been pushed, will be behave violently.

[LV-426]

If you wanna punch me for saying what is quite obvious, then I challenge you to do it through the screen.

Chuck Norris mocks your feeble electronic shield!

[GlitterRose]

I just..he didn't say he would punch someone, he said that you cannot insult someone without at least anticipating some sort of consequence like punching. Not everyone follows the same moral compass, some people, when they perceive they have been pushed, will be behave violently.

But we're not talking about just anyone. We're talking about the Pope...who is supposed to exemplify Jesus. Now we know nobody's perfect, but this is out of character. And it's not just what he had to say about someone talking about his mother. It's also about him chastising people for free expression, and not coming down on the people who will kill you for speaking your mind. And it's all because he gives religion some special pass. Free speech is ok, except when you say something about religion that someone else doesn't like. If you do that, then violence should be expected...? I don't agree. I feel like he just sanctioned the terrorists who killed those people over at Charlie Hebdo. I'm not thrilled about that. I expect better of him.

Edited January 24, 2015 by ChaosRose

[Careful_perspective]

But we're not talking about just anyone. We're talking about the Pope...who is supposed to exemplify Jesus. Now we know nobody's perfect, but this is out of character. And it's not just what he had to say about someone talking about his mother. It's also about him chastising people for free expression, and not coming down on the people who will kill you for speaking your mind. And it's all because he gives religion some special pass. Free speech is ok, except when you say something about religion that someone else doesn't like. If you do that, then violence should be expected...? I don't agree. I feel like he just sanctioned the terrorists who killed those people over at Charlie Hebdo. I'm not thrilled about that. I expect better of him.

I don’t know if I am doing a poor job explaining to you. But the Pope was not saying that he would PERSONALLY punch someone. The Pope was trying to tell a cautionary tale to catholics that there can be real consequences for speaking harshly. A message of being prudent, you cannot make assumptions of ideal behavior on everyone's part. Your moral calculation has to take into account REALISTIC behavioral expectations of others.

His exact words where: “Each person not only has the freedom but also the obligation to say what he thinks in the name of the common good” and “Each religion has its dignity. I cannot make fun of it.” Then he states you cannot mock religion and then the punch comment comes into play. I interpret this as him, as a religious man affirms all religions deserve dignity and should not make fun of them, nor condone it.

[GlitterRose]

But the Pope was not saying that he would PERSONALLY punch someone. The Pope was trying to tell a cautionary tale to catholics that there can be real consequences for speaking harshly.

This isn't just a message for Catholics. When the Pope speaks...everyone is listening. And he came out on the side of the terrorists here by saying that people should expect violence if they speak their minds. I disagree. People should be able to speak their minds, and others should learn to deal with it in nonviolent ways. Where would we be without satire? Comedy? Just straight out constructive criticism?

No matter how you slice it, I'm still going to believe that the POPE should have come down against violence, and NOT against free speech and free expression.

People can and do satirize any subject. We can learn an awful lot by being exposed to it...and THAT is why religious extremists fear it. They're living in a glass house, and satire is the stone.

Edited January 24, 2015 by ChaosRose

[Careful_perspective]

But the Pope was not saying that he would PERSONALLY punch someone. The Pope was trying to tell a cautionary tale to catholics that there can be real consequences for speaking harshly.

This isn't just a message for Catholics. When the Pope speaks...everyone is listening. And he came out on the side of the terrorists here by saying that people should expect violence if they speak their minds. I disagree. People should be able to speak their minds, and others should learn to deal with it in nonviolent ways. Where would we be without satire? Comedy? Just straight out constructive criticism?

No matter how you slice it, I'm still going to believe that the POPE should have come down against violence, and NOT against free speech and free expression.

If you think the Pope is going to wave the flag of freedom and be a big advocate for free speech you have WILD expectations of him. Yes, everyone is listening to him, but he is the representative of the Catholic faith, representing the Catholic establishment. This man is not the President of the U.S representing the constitution.

Additionally, he did come down against violence, his speech was about non-violence.

[GlitterRose]

If you think the Pope is going to wave the flag of freedom and be a big advocate for free speech you have WILD expectations of him. Yes, everyone is listening to him, but he is the representative of the Catholic faith, representing the Catholic establishment. This man is not the President of the U.S representing the constitution.

Additionally, he did come down against violence, his speech was about non-violence.

What I can expect is that he doesn't try to justify the violence of religious extremists. In my opinion, that's exactly what he did.

Edited January 24, 2015 by ChaosRose

[Careful_perspective]

What I can expect is that he doesn't try to justify the violence of religious extremists. In my opinion, that's exactly what he did.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Luckily, not everyone felt as miffed as you did, this speech made me admire him further. I think what he said was VERY realistic.

[GlitterRose]

I'm sorry you feel that way. Luckily, not everyone felt as miffed as you did, this speech made me admire him further. I think what he said was VERY realistic.

Not that it adds to my credibility, and this is not an ad populem argument, but I don't stand alone in thinking this way. I actually don't believe that the Pope is infallible. He's human, and imo, he messed up. I would really like to see him admit to it, because the things that he says, well...he's the friggin' Pope. He's extremely influential. And he just excused violence against people because they wrote something that a group of religious extremists didn't like. He feels that people should censor themselves with regard to religion, because they might offend someone, and that would naturally result in violence. I say that doesn't have to be a natural state. People don't have to kill folks just because they said something they don't like. The Pope should have been the voice for reason here. He missed the opportunity.

[Careful_perspective]

Not that it adds to my credibility, and this is not an ad populem argument, but I don't stand alone in thinking this way. I actually don't believe that the Pope is infallible. He's human, and imo, he messed up. I would really like to see him admit to it, because the things that he says, well...he's the friggin' Pope. He's extremely influential. And he just excused violence against people because they wrote something that a group of religious extremists didn't like. He feels that people should censor themselves with regard to religion, because they might offend someone, and that would naturally result in violence. I say that doesn't have to be a natural state. People don't have to kill folks just because they said something they don't like. The Pope should have been the voice for reason here. He missed the opportunity.

I am aware that you don't stand alone, I mean, just look at this thread, not many have been defending the Pope. And he didn't miss an opportunity, he actually also said in that same speech that horrific violence in God's name is UNJUSTIFIABLE, blasphemous and an an aberration. Yet people just continue to harp on one phrase, one phrase they continue to spin in an attempt to shame him.

When the Pope visited Turkey in 2014 he made SEVERAL speeches about peace, and made huge steps in peaceful discussions between Muslims and Christians. Not many people followed that, but the Pope mentions a punch and people are up in arms. Its ridiculous.

[Astra.]

If somebody claims that the pope is in for violence, than its not light heartedness but plain out lie.

Nobody claimed anything of the sought or lied about anything....the proofs in the pudding via the video in regards to the punching remark by the Pope.

You obviously fail to see the "contradiction" here of what the Catholic church preaches

Nobody is saying they shouldn, but since this is not the case, I dont know why you bring this up.

We all have differing perceptions and opinions on things....I don't understand why you are taking this so personal

You can dream about him at night if you like, I dont care.

Ooooh... I dream about the Pope every night.....*blushes*