Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
questionmark

Israel lobbies to cut ICC funding

135 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

questionmark

(Reuters) - Israel is lobbying member-states of the International Criminal Court to cut funding for the tribunal in response to its launch of an inquiry into possible war crimes in the Palestinian territories, officials said on Sunday.

ICC prosecutors said on Friday they would examine "in full independence and impartiality" crimes that may have occurred since June 13 last year. This allows the court to delve into the war between Israel and Hamas militants in Gaza in July-August 2014 that killed more than 2,100 Palestinians and 70 Israelis.

The decision came after Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, in the absence of peace talks and against strong opposition from Israel and the United States, requested ICC membership, which comes into effect on April 1.

Read more

Well, if we needed any evidence that this is scaring them Sh!tless they have just delivered it!

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
libstaK

Any shortfall of funding by the usual supporters is only going to met by those who have a vested interest in watching Israel squirm. They really could not have opened a bigger can of worms if they tried.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheDarkerSide

This will be an interesting one to watch.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and then

Hmmm. "in full independence and impartiality" let me attempt to prophesy: "Israel found guilty on all charges - and we even added a few"

No charges will be brought against the "forces of the OCCUPIED defenders" Of course Israel will fight this. They will also, of course, lose. The net is tightening now and the PR war is being won hands down by the Palestinians. Israel will be pushed (by sanctions) into making concessions that will ultimately lead to war. WHY, you ask? Because all consideration here is being given without a nod to the realities on the ground. First, the Palestinians do not want peace - they want ALL THE LAND. Not my words, their's. Second, Israel is NEVER going to be pushed off that land without one hell of a fight that would leave so many dead that the Gaza incursions would seem like a school picnic. Yet people foolishly will force this war because they cannot accept a Jewish state in Palestine. It's coming. Time to pick sides - I think the choice every person makes will be answered for in time.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kartikg

Hmmm. "in full independence and impartiality" let me attempt to prophesy: "Israel found guilty on all charges - and we even added a few"

No charges will be brought against the "forces of the OCCUPIED defenders" Of course Israel will fight this. They will also, of course, lose. The net is tightening now and the PR war is being won hands down by the Palestinians. Israel will be pushed (by sanctions) into making concessions that will ultimately lead to war. WHY, you ask? Because all consideration here is being given without a nod to the realities on the ground. First, the Palestinians do not want peace - they want ALL THE LAND. Not my words, their's. Second, Israel is NEVER going to be pushed off that land without one hell of a fight that would leave so many dead that the Gaza incursions would seem like a school picnic. Yet people foolishly will force this war because they cannot accept a Jewish state in Palestine. It's coming. Time to pick sides - I think the choice every person makes will be answered for in time.

I think lot of people just want to watch the world burn. I feel there is sudden rise in kids who all want "peace" and "justice" who have no idea on how practical things are on the ground . They somewhat resemble the old hippy movement.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sir Wearer of Hats

ohh what a mature move there Israel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sir Wearer of Hats

Hmmm. "in full independence and impartiality" let me attempt to prophesy: "Israel found guilty on all charges - and we even added a few"

No charges will be brought against the "forces of the OCCUPIED defenders" Of course Israel will fight this. They will also, of course, lose. The net is tightening now and the PR war is being won hands down by the Palestinians. Israel will be pushed (by sanctions) into making concessions that will ultimately lead to war. WHY, you ask? Because all consideration here is being given without a nod to the realities on the ground. First, the Palestinians do not want peace - they want ALL THE LAND. Not my words, their's. Second, Israel is NEVER going to be pushed off that land without one hell of a fight that would leave so many dead that the Gaza incursions would seem like a school picnic. Yet people foolishly will force this war because they cannot accept a Jewish state in Palestine. It's coming. Time to pick sides - I think the choice every person makes will be answered for in time.

why is it in your head "holding Israel to the same laws we hold everyone" always equates to "an attack on Israel"?

Read your Bible - the Israelites were ALWAYS held to the Laws of God, and punished by the Laws of Man when they fell off the path, if the Laws of Man are pressuring Israel MAYBE just maybe it's because God wants it that way.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and then

why is it in your head "holding Israel to the same laws we hold everyone" always equates to "an attack on Israel"?

Read your Bible - the Israelites were ALWAYS held to the Laws of God, and punished by the Laws of Man when they fell off the path, if the Laws of Man are pressuring Israel MAYBE just maybe it's because God wants it that way.

We've had this around before. My problem is NOT with Israel being held to a fair standard Sir. It's the fact that where the Palestinian situation is concerned people are willfully blind to the end game. They ignore the plain open statements of their intentions toward the Jews in Palestine. Israel is expected to pack up and move - PERIOD. Nothing else is going to satisfy these people. Ultimately the leaders of the Palestinians are hardly better than the filth known as ISIS. Yet with all the chaos and destruction going on in the region it is ONLY Israel that is singled out. Why is it so difficult to see that for what it is?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sir Wearer of Hats

Here's the thing, a man tries to kill you - does that mean in reply you abandon all law in response?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and then

Here's the thing, a man tries to kill you - does that mean in reply you abandon all law in response?

You paint a black and white picture that is inaccurate. I am not going to convince you and so will cease to try. Support the middle ground but know that in doing so you are by default helping usher in the war that is coming. One CANNOT judge Israel by one standard and their mortal enemies by another, lesser standard. If the Palestinians would genuinely disarm and stop firing rockets - MURDERING JEWS IN THE STREETS and actually keep an agreement then there would be peace. Blaming Israel for everything by making them the villain because they kill civilian hostages OF HAMAS is wrong and will never reap a peace in the region - only war. And when it comes in the last instance it will be a horrific loss of life that was caused by the world doing EXACTLY what you are doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phaeton80
Blaming Israel for everything by making them the villain because they kill civilian hostages OF HAMAS is wrong and will never reap a peace in the region

Thats right. All 1462 civilians killed during operation 'Protective Edge', of which 495 children and 253 women, were nefariously used as a 'human shield' by those evil terrorists known as Hamas. Those monstrous antiSemites!

Eventhough we are showering them in our superior culture as The Chosen People of G*d, they still bite the hand that occup.. erm feeds them. Oh Lord, when will our suffering end.. When will they stop forcing us to treat them like animals?

In Israel, critics charge that the U.N. numbers are inaccurate and biased, in part because the United Nations bases its reports on numbers generated by human rights groups working in Gaza, which they say cannot be trusted.

Source

Yes, human rights groups are anti Semites too.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RavenHawk

Thats right. All 1462 civilians killed during operation 'Protective Edge', of which 495 children and 253 women, were nefariously used as a 'human shield' by those evil terrorists known as Hamas. Those monstrous antiSemites!

Eventhough we are showering them in our superior culture as The Chosen People of G*d, they still bite the hand that occup.. erm feeds them. Oh Lord, when will our suffering end.. When will they stop forcing us to treat them like animals?

And how many of those 495 children and 253 women were killed by Hamas rockets? Either landing short within Gaza or blowing up on launch inside hospitals and schools? If you go by the graphic of 459 rockets intercepted by Iron Dome and the 1821 that landed in Israel, that still leaves 199 of the 2479 fired by Hamas unaccounted for.

The tactic that Israel used by shooting dummy rounds or dropping leaflets assured that civilian casualties were minimal. If Israel didn’t concern itself with keeping casualties down, then the 2947 targets hit by Israel would have produced far more than the 1462 killed. There were very few incidents where inadvertent Israeli shells exploded in a civilian crowd. So I ask again, where did the majority of civilian casualties come from?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RoofGardener

If we're going to talk about casualty figures from operation Protective Edge, then you should remember what happened in the previous incursion; operation Cast Lead.

During, and shortly after, the incursion, the various Human Rights groups produced casualty figures VERY similar to that of the more recent Protective Edge. Large numbers of civilians, including women and children, killed, but very few combatants. The IDF produced their own figures, showing relatively few civilian casualties, with the bulk being combatants. They where laughed at. In the end, however, even the United Nations had to admit that the final figures where very close to the IDF's version.

The NGO's are - in essence - getting their figures from the Palestinian Ministry of Health, and from other sources effectively controlled by HAMAS. It takes a while for the truth to come out, and it usually does so very quietly.

Whillst we are waiting for that, lets look at the... ahem... 'official' figures.

1462 civilians killed ?

Of which 253 where women, and 495 where children.

That leaves 714 male adults.

So if the Israeli's where shelling, bombing and shooting at RANDOM into civilian area's... why the disproportionately high number of male adults ?

The average family size in Gaza is 6.6 ( Palestinain Beurau of Statistics).

So in a truly random sample of 1452 Gazan's, one would expect

221 Women (the mothers)

221 Men (the fathers)

1018 children (the offspring)

So where where all the children in these random Israeli attacks ? Well, perhaps in hiding somewhere. But where did all the extra men come from ?

Like so much in the world of Pallyvision, it just doesn't add up, does it ?

It will be fun watching the Palestinian's presenting their "evidence" to the ICC. Assuming we are even allowed to see it, of course.

Edited by RoofGardener
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phaeton80

Gardening roofs again I see, mr. RoofGardner.

You have talent, I can see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RoofGardener

I have indeed, Phaeton... you should see my Courgettes !

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phaeton80

If we're going to talk about casualty figures from operation Protective Edge, then you should remember what happened in the previous incursion; operation Cast Lead.

During, and shortly after, the incursion, the various Human Rights groups produced casualty figures VERY similar to that of the more recent Protective Edge. Large numbers of civilians, including women and children, killed, but very few combatants. The IDF produced their own figures, showing relatively few civilian casualties, with the bulk being combatants. They where laughed at. In the end, however, even the United Nations had to admit that the final figures where very close to the IDF's version.

The NGO's are - in essence - getting their figures from the Palestinian Ministry of Health, and from other sources effectively controlled by HAMAS. It takes a while for the truth to come out, and it usually does so very quietly.

Whillst we are waiting for that, lets look at the... ahem... 'official' figures.

1462 civilians killed ?

Of which 253 where women, and 495 where children.

That leaves 714 male adults.

So if the Israeli's where shelling, bombing and shooting at RANDOM into civilian area's... why the disproportionately high number of male adults ?

The average family size in Gaza is 6.6 ( Palestinain Beurau of Statistics).

So in a truly random sample of 1452 Gazan's, one would expect

221 Women (the mothers)

221 Men (the fathers)

1018 children (the offspring)

So where where all the children in these random Israeli attacks ? Well, perhaps in hiding somewhere. But where did all the extra men come from ?

Like so much in the world of Pallyvision, it just doesn't add up, does it ?

It will be fun watching the Palestinian's presenting their "evidence" to the ICC. Assuming we are even allowed to see it, of course.

One of the most advanced military forces on earth commences a massive rocket attack on occupied civilian area's after said civilians keep reacting negatively to their occupation, imprisonment.

This superior military force thus kills hundreds of innocent children, elderly, women and men in said targeted occupied territories. A claim is subsequently made all said civilians / children were used as a human shield, implying the IDF cannot be blamed for said deaths.

A response is made pointing out the ridiculous nature of said claim. Reaction; the death count doesnt add up! Trying to shift focus from the clearcut fact a state of the art warmachine was pitted against a civilian zone ('cast lead', 'protective edge', 'pillar of defense' etc etc) - using chemical agents like phosphorous ('white napalm') and missile attacks on civilian rich area's - resulting in thousands of dead civilians, including hundreds of confirmed women and children. Which constitutes a warcrime, no matter what the ratio is. 'All sources lest those from the Israeli State herself are part of a conspiracy to damage Israeli PR. Even Israeli human rights organisations cannot be trusted.' Quite. Is it your contention no considerable number of civilians were killed? Is it your contention less than a hundred innocent children were murdered, and as such it is less of a crime? Is it your contention the possible marginal misrepresentation of the numbers is a greater crime than to unleash a military on a fenced in civilian population? Nauseating.

You lament the high number of males being part of the total number of civilian deaths based on simply retracting the deaths of women and children from the total. However convenient this formula might be for your position, it doesnt work like that.

The numbers specified in context of women and children are cases of verified sex and age of the casualties. To simply suppose this defacto means the remaining number of deaths are strictly of the male conviction is rather premature. One could even call it a misrepresentation of numbers in itself. This besides the fact ofcourse, that males tend to want to defend their children, their wives, their family when a life threatening scenario arises.. and as such will statistically be overly represented in such a deathcount.

Your point concerning the use of the Palestinian Ministery of Health as a source for certain statistics is sheer hypocrisy as well, given the Israeli State has consciously isolated the occupied territories in such a way any effective international monitoring was made impossible. Lastly, you try to paint a picture here somehow the Palestinians, specifically Hamas - officially registered on int terrorist lists - has some sort of global PR machine fervently trying to undermine the righteous Israeli State, manipulating the world consensus as they go along. Which is, given the actual Israeli funded int. network of pro Israeli organisations seeded throughout the whole of the Western hemisphere, an effective indication of your raging bias, detachment of reality.

Edited by Phaeton80

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RoofGardener

Hmmm.... I'm struggling with a lot of that, Phaeton80.

Just to get some facts cleared up;

1) The IDF didn't use rockets against Gaza, so far as I am aware. To do so would almost certainly be a war crime, as it would breach the "duty of care" sections of the Geneva Convention relating to treatment of civilians in war. A rocket is an unguided ballistic weapon, traditionally fired in salvo's as an "area effect" weapon. What the Israeli's may have used is guided missiles (radar or laser) from aircraft, and line-of-site tank and artillary shells. (I'm not sure about the latter... perhaps some other forum members are experts on this ? ).

2) "... which constitutes a war crime, no matter what the ratio is..."

You are mistaken, Phaeton. Killing civilians does NOT constitute a war crime in and of itself. Might I suggest you familiarise yourself with the Geneva Conventions ? (which are the source of International Law on the issue).

3) I think you are misrepresenting me in your discussion on statistics. I merely cited the "official" Palestinian (and NGO) statistics. I did not make them up, I did not add or subtract any sections of it. I merely pointed out that there seems to be an oddity in the age/sex balance of those numbers, as given. If you randomly fire a tank shell into a civilian building or area, you would normally expect the resulting casualties to be representative of the demographics of said area. The larger the statistical sample (e.g. the larger the number of such 'tank shells'), then the closer the casualty ratio should be to the demographics. When this is NOT the case, it is legitimate to challange the casualty figures. (strictly speaking, other assumptions should be challenged as well, such as the 'published' demographic statistics, and the methodology of determining both).

As the Palestinian Health Ministry has a historic, proven track record of producing biased numbers, and as the NGO's have a track record of using these to produce "civilian vs military" casualty rates that are subsequently demonstrated to be wrong, then obviously any anomalies in their current statistics have to be viewed as potentialy erroneous.

This isn't "raging bias" or "detachment of reality" - just the opposite. It borders on common sense.

The Palestinian's also have a track record of manipulating the media - and NGO's - for propaganda purposes. This doesn't mean that everything they say is a lie, but it SHOULD make us think twice before accepting their claims at face value. Just as we should statements from the IDF or the Israeli government.

You lament the difficulty in effective international monitoring. Well, why not ask some of the journalists who have tried to report from Gaza ? If they tell the wrong story, they are visited by HAMAS and threatened. If they do it again, they are kicked out, or killed.Gazan citizens are likewise afraid to talk candidly, lest a similar fate befall them.

Here's another example of the "difficulties" in effective international monitoring. When the UNHRC commisioned what was to become the Goldstone Report, the mandate was explicitly to look for violations of human rights by Israel, but NOT any violations by the Palestinians. The language of the mandate also implied that the existence of human rights violations was CONFIRMED (which it most certainly was not), and merely required cataloging.

The UN High Commissionair for Human Rights slammed this decision, and refused to take part in what she regarded as a crude propaganda excercise set up by the Organisation of the Islamic Conference. Richard Goldstone publically adopted the same line, and refused to take part until the UNHRC reluctantly widened the remit to cover both sides.

Ever wondered WHY the UNHRC even considered the first version of the mandate ? Well gosh.. could it be that it was at the bequest of the OIC which - at the time - controlled most of the oil feeding the world ? And you think that Israel has a lot of power in the media ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phaeton80
2) "... which constitutes a war crime, no matter what the ratio is..."

You are mistaken, Phaeton. Killing civilians does NOT constitute a war crime in and of itself. Might I suggest you familiarise yourself with the Geneva Conventions ? (which are the source of International Law on the issue).

Let me just respond to this little gem of yours.

This sets out the overall parameters for GCIV:

This does not only cover the named operations, but the Palestinian situation as a whole (fencing them in on their own land, freedom robbed; general suppression and oppression of civilians).

..Which might have something to do with the decades long critical stance towards the Israeli State from all sorts of human rights organisations world wide. But ofcourse, these are all part of the global pro Hamas PR machine.

Edited by Phaeton80

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and then

Let me just respond to this little gem of yours.

This does not only cover the named operations, but the Palestinian situation as a whole (fencing them in on their own land, freedom robbed; general suppression and oppression of civilians).

..Which might have something to do with the decades long critical stance towards the Israeli State from all sorts of human rights organisations world wide. But ofcourse, these are all part of the global pro Hamas PR machine.

This proves that you believe the acts of the Palestinians to be justified and that Israel cannot act in self defense legitimately. The Palestinians THEMSELVES repeatedly say to anyone willing to listen that they will accept NOTHING LESS than all the land of Palestine. PERIOD. Those who support them blindly only perpetuate their suffering. If a solution is to be found that allows BOTH of these people to live side by side on the same land then that reality must be demanded from the Palestinians. But it won't be. Their supporters will continue to press Israel to give more and more land, even in the face of continuing rocket attacks and stabbings, drive overs, etc... Eventually a critical mass will be reached where Israel has lost enough fear of world opinion due to the deaths of their own that they will finally lash out as the Palestinians have done. But the deaths that follow that will never be acknowledge as a shared responsibility by the Palisymps. They will hypocritically continue to blame Israel.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bee

. But the deaths that follow that will never be acknowledge as a shared responsibility by the Palisymps. They will hypocritically continue to blame Israel.

'Palisymps' - I haven't heard that one before - :lol:

.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phaeton80

You are the only one blindly supporting something. 'Palestinians' are just like me and you, one might even call them 'human'. They do not occupy their time hatching out plans to destroy or invade Israel, they (99% of them) just want to live their lives.. See their children grow up and get a good job. To see their family free to do as they please like mine and yours, to chase after their dreams and aspirations. They are robbed from all of that.

The fact you maintain some sort of inhuman 'hellbent on destroying Israel' template for 'The Palestinian' strongly indicates an irrational and fanatical state of mind. You know, the black & white variant. The one where the end justifies the means.. where crimes (against humanity) are rationalised. This is the state of mind of a fanatic.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RavenHawk

I love it when Palestinian apologists show selective amnesia. They always tend to ignore the pertinent facts. That’s ok, that’s where I come in. The Fellahin had lost any rights to the land when the Ottoman Empire turned over that territory to the British according to international law. The Arabs could have remained permanent British subjects but the British did something unusual in history and that was returning the land to the rightful owners. And they did so with something like 99% of the land. That last 1% was of course Palestine.

And a term incorrectly given to the fellahin squatters. The only thing the majority could produce was bogus deeds. The British were under no legal obligation to abide by such lawlessness. But the Fellahin had another chance in 1948. They could have established a state of their own side-by-side with Israel and they rejected it. Their misery today is a creation all their own. Their future is in their hands and as long as they continue to teach their children hate and to kidnap, send suicide bombers, and fire rockets at Israel, that is what they shall reap. People like to tout that the Palestinian birth rate will eventually dominate the land, but Hamas has created an environment of hate which is unhealthy for the continuation of life. In time the birth rate will dwindle as people seek life elsewhere.

But you say that Israel doesn’t want to negotiate with the Palestinian for return of land. What about the land that was taken from the Jew from across the Muslim world when Israel became a state? Especially from North Africa? Where else were Jews supposed to go? If the Muslim world establishes the Palestinian cause of hatred toward the Jew, then they should negotiate for the return of Jewish lands. Otherwise, they should back off or absorb the Palestinian into their own cultures.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sir Wearer of Hats
the British did something unusual in history and that was returning the land to the rightful owners.

The "rightful owners"?

So the folks who were living there weren't the rightful owners?

You're a Yank right? Would YOU be happy if some outside power came in and gave 99% of America back to the Native Americans?

And "where else were the Jews supposed to go?"

Well I SEEM to recall plans for a Jewish state within America. And another one in Scotland or was it Ireland? EVERY offer of land anywhere other then Israel was rejected.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
President-Elect Acidhead

Says the guy who trashes all religions..... haha... thanks for the history lesson Raven

Edited by acidhead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
questionmark

The "rightful owners"?

So the folks who were living there weren't the rightful owners?

You're a Yank right? Would YOU be happy if some outside power came in and gave 99% of America back to the Native Americans?

And "where else were the Jews supposed to go?"

Well I SEEM to recall plans for a Jewish state within America. And another one in Scotland or was it Ireland? EVERY offer of land anywhere other then Israel was rejected.

The best offer on the table was 50% of Namibia. They should have taken it instead of following the Torah thumpers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.