Anti-austerity coalition government in Greece

[keithisco]

With Germany's influence in the Eurozone waining still further with this result - what next for the Euro?

The far-left Syriza party, which won Greece's general election on Sunday, has formed an anti-austerity governing coalition with the right-wing party Greek Independents.

The coalition will have a comfortable majority in Greece's new parliament.

Syriza leader Alexis Tsipras has vowed to renegotiate Greece's bailout, worth €240bn (£179bn; $268bn), to end Greece's "humiliation and pain".

Several European politicians have warned him to respect bailout terms.

The euro fell to $1.11 against the US dollar following Syriza's win - the lowest level in more than 11 years

Source (BBC): http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30981950

[skookum]

Don't know what to think about it really. The writing has been on the wall for ages.

Greece only got membership because they cooked the books and all these years on things have not really improved.

No doubt they will receive better terms, more borrowing and continue the same way as when they joined.

[stevewinn]

Well, what next for the European Union and the €uro? well, i'll predict we'll witness much of the same behaviour displayed by the EU todate. the French Said NO, the Dutch said NO, and the Irish said NO, then where made to vote again and then said YES, each time the EU carries on regardless nothing is allowed to get in the way, nothing at all.

The EU is a political and economic Beast, breaking free is nigh on impossible for the likes of Greece. - Greece are indebted to the European Union - European central bank IE:Germany to the tune of Billions. Greece wont leave the Euro currency, they wont be allowed to. Germany will want her money back, and with the ECB starting a process of Quantitative Easing (Printing Money) against the wishes of the Germans. tensions are soon to rise. Frau Merkel wont be happy and how its received by the German tax payers.

At the end of the day money makes the world go around and those who hold the strings decided how fast it spins. when the pressure is applied the Best Greece can hope for is a reduction in the debt interest rate, penalties and austerity measures imposed by the ECB/EU. No doubt testing times for the EU/Eurozone. but the question is, IF Greece gets a reduction in its debt and lets face it Greece cannot pay back its debt, the levels are just to high standing at 174% of GDP.

Surely any favourable terms agreed for Greece would soon be followed by requests from the rest of the Eurozone members. and this is when the trouble starts, a situation whereby the wealthy Northern members are asked yet again to take the medicine for the southern members.

But end result, Greece remains within the EU and Eurozone. and Greek elections again within 18 months.

Edited January 26, 2015 by stevewinn

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I honestly think the Greeks are going to go "we're never going to pay back that money, so go suck your thumbs" and the EU will sanction Greece up the clacker end result is sod all change but more suffering in Greece and the local nutters finally going "well stuff you too" and ceasing to have anything at all to do with the EU.

[Finity]

Go Greece! Bring the whole corrupt house down on their heads

Now all we need now is for my country to leave (looking more likely every year) and the party is over. Revolution is slowly brewing here (again), I can feel it.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Finity

[SolarPlexus]

Bravo Greeks !!! :D

[stevewinn]

It seems closer than ever that the Greeks might default on their repayments. raising the possibility of them leaving the Eurozone, Can the EU really allow the Greeks to leave? Its interesting to note, after talks in Germany and Brussels the Greek finance minister has now flown to RUSSIA. - is Europe losing Greece to Russia? interesting times lay ahead.

[bmk1245]

It seems closer than ever that the Greeks might default on their repayments. raising the possibility of them leaving the Eurozone, Can the EU really allow the Greeks to leave? Its interesting to note, after talks in Germany and Brussels the Greek finance minister has now flown to RUSSIA. - is Europe losing Greece to Russia? interesting times lay ahead.

Heh, let them... Let them side with Russia, and pensions of 100 EUR will look like a dream...

OT

Austrian Institute of Economic Research (so far, found in German language only) estimated EU losses due to EU-Russia mess (as I understood, worst case scenario) of 100 billion euros, and ~2 million jobs.

Edit to clarify

Edited June 19, 2015 by bmk1245

[spud the mackem]

Bravo Greeks !!! :D

That beer looks cloudy.

[spud the mackem]

It seems closer than ever that the Greeks might default on their repayments. raising the possibility of them leaving the Eurozone, Can the EU really allow the Greeks to leave? Its interesting to note, after talks in Germany and Brussels the Greek finance minister has now flown to RUSSIA. - is Europe losing Greece to Russia? interesting times lay ahead.

When Russia says Yes to help the Greeks the fun will begin as Putin will want a foothold in Greece which is a strategically placed country in the Med. Is this the beginning of a Russian takeover. I predict Russian warships in the Adriatic.Just what Putin needs.He must be laughing his socks off as he will have a start in Europe, we have to get out before the fertilizer hits the windmill.

[Space Commander Travis]

So why would the tyrant Putin (I seem to have to ask this in every single thread on every single topic, since he seems to be omnipresent) want to antagonise the Civilised World (i.e. America) into a world war? What proof do you have that he is insane? Why has he spent over a year fannying about supposedly supporting "pro-Russian Rebels" in some godforsaken mudhole in Ukraine rather than sweeping his panzer divisions into Kiev and Warsaw and wherever else, if he was insane enough to want to to dominate the world? Why should he be prevented from sailing his warships where he wants,when the US Navy is able to do whatever it wants wherever it wants?

[Space Commander Travis]

besides, the Black Sea Fleet consists of about one seaworthy destroyer, doesn't it. it's hardly a threat to the future of the civilised world.

[spud the mackem]

So why would the tyrant Putin (I seem to have to ask this in every single thread on every single topic, since he seems to be omnipresent) want to antagonise the Civilised World (i.e. America) into a world war? What proof do you have that he is insane? Why has he spent over a year fannying about supposedly supporting "pro-Russian Rebels" in some godforsaken mudhole in Ukraine rather than sweeping his panzer divisions into Kiev and Warsaw and wherever else, if he was insane enough to want to to dominate the world? Why should he be prevented from sailing his warships where he wants,when the US Navy is able to do whatever it wants wherever it wants?

I never mentioned that Putin is insane, this is a financial deal where Russia will want more back than he gives out, like having a couple of Russian bases in Greece,and a couple of Airfields where they can hold "manouvers", Putin is no fool and won't start a war, he is just playing cat and mouse with Europe and also the U.S.

[Harry_Dresden]

I never mentioned that Putin is insane, this is a financial deal where Russia will want more back than he gives out, like having a couple of Russian bases in Greece,and a couple of Airfields where they can hold "manouvers", Putin is no fool and won't start a war, he is just playing cat and mouse with Europe and also the U.S.

Regardless of the current left wing government in Athens flirting with Russia, Greece is too entrenched in the Western camp to just jump ship. The leftists only won 35% of the vote... hardly a mandate to swap sides. Having said that, Russia has access to Cypriot air and naval bases... and with a depleted Black Sea fleet and poor military I doubt Russia would even need such access to the Med.

[Harry_Dresden]

I honestly think the Greeks are going to go "we're never going to pay back that money, so go suck your thumbs" and the EU will sanction Greece up the clacker end result is sod all change but more suffering in Greece and the local nutters finally going "well stuff you too" and ceasing to have anything at all to do with the EU.

Well the bailout conducted by the EU/IMF was screwed up to start off with. 5 years has left the country in ruin. Greece has every right to question more of the same. To use an analogy... Greece the drug addict, was given money to buy even more drugs (debt) and then told by its dealers (EU/IMF) to borrow even more money to pay back the original amount... and then go cold turkey. If I were Greece, I would be looking to default too.

[Leonardo]

It seems closer than ever that the Greeks might default on their repayments. raising the possibility of them leaving the Eurozone, Can the EU really allow the Greeks to leave? Its interesting to note, after talks in Germany and Brussels the Greek finance minister has now flown to RUSSIA. - is Europe losing Greece to Russia? interesting times lay ahead.

Not only can the EU allow Greece to exit, it may be beneficial to the EU to have Greece exit the Eurozone.

I don't understand why many seem to be cheering on Greece? While I don't blame all the people in Greece, it is a fact the country got itself into a complete mess through corruption, laziness and arrogance.

If Russia take on Greece as a 'partner' and try to finance Greece out of it's problems, then more fool Russia I say. Greece needs to change it's behaviour and become more fiscally prudent before it can start to solve any of the problems it has with revenue.

[stevewinn]

It seems at the eleventh hour a deal is going to be reached with the realities staring them in the face, such has having no money to run the basics, such as Police, fire, Hospitals etc.. Greece will once again have no choice but to accept the payments from the IMF and ECB, plunging them into even greater debt. Greece truly belongs to their paymasters - Eurozone/European central Bank/IMF.

The Eurozone single currency has been a disaster highlighting that a one size fits all does indeed not work. as The British Prime minister Margaret Thatcher said in 1990. the single currency is nothing more than a tool to achieving a Federal Europe by the back door.

[Leonardo]

It seems at the eleventh hour a deal is going to be reached with the realities staring them in the face, such has having no money to run the basics, such as Police, fire, Hospitals etc.. Greece will once again have no choice but to accept the payments from the IMF and ECB, plunging them into even greater debt. Greece truly belongs to their paymasters - Eurozone/European central Bank/IMF.

Has Greece anyone to blame for the situation they find themselves in than Greece?

I do feel sympathy towards those Greeks who were paying their taxes instead of avoiding them, and I do feel sympathy towards the young whose prospects are being limited by the difficulty Greece is going to experience of the next couple of decades (at least.) But they are probably the only 'innocents' in this whole sordid affair.

[stevewinn]

Has Greece anyone to blame for the situation they find themselves in than Greece?

I do feel sympathy towards those Greeks who were paying their taxes instead of avoiding them, and I do feel sympathy towards the young whose prospects are being limited by the difficulty Greece is going to experience of the next couple of decades (at least.) But they are probably the only 'innocents' in this whole sordid affair.

The EU and ECB had a duty and responsibility when they allowed the Greeks to enter the Euro currency when they damn well knew that Greece's books where cooked and the EU/ECB turned a blind eye - because it was eurozone expansion at all costs. The Euro currency was to give prosperity to all involved. So why worry about tomorrow when it was all about today, trouble is tomorrow always comes and the Eurozone was so badly drafted the first place come the first major hurdle of the 2008 credit crisis and shock horror we found the outdated economic model is not fit for purpose, a one size fits all for 19 countries with chalk and cheese economies was never going to work what could possibly go wrong eh, - and never will work in its current format. Greece wilfully put on the Eurozone straitjacket, and the EU gladly assisted is fastening the straps. Greece unable to set its own interest rates, Greece unable to sell government Bonds, in short Greece unable to Govern itself. instead the EU flew in their troika and the wheels were set in motion. and remember just how George Panaderou was removed.

Edited June 19, 2015 by stevewinn

[Leonardo]

The EU and ECB had a duty and responsibility when they allowed the Greeks to enter the Euro currency when they damn well knew that Greece's books where cooked and the EU/ECB turned a blind eye - because it was eurozone expansion at all costs.

The UK had a duty and responsibility when they agreed to enter the Eurozone and they damn well knew that there would be immigration, some loss of legal power to the European Court of Justice, and a financial duty as a wealthy member of the Euro alliance to assist the financially weaker members.

Who is it that is among those who continually complain about those "duties and responsibilities", Steve?

[stevewinn]

The UK had a duty and responsibility when they agreed to enter the Eurozone and they damn well knew that there would be immigration, some loss of legal power to the European Court of Justice, and a financial duty as a wealthy member of the Euro alliance to assist the financially weaker members.

Who is it that is among those who continually complain about those "duties and responsibilities", Steve?

I don't understand, when you say the UK had a duty and responsibility when they agreed to enter the eurozone, who entered, the UK or Greece?, if its the former the UK is not a member of the eurozone, immigration, loss of power etc. the people of the UK didn't vote for this in the 1975 referendum it was the common market based on trade, not at all what we see today after numerous treaties. I need you to explain more, wires might be getting crossed.

[Leonardo]

I don't understand, when you say the UK had a duty and responsibility when they agreed to enter the eurozone, who entered, the UK or Greece?, if its the former the UK is not a member of the eurozone, immigration, loss of power etc. the people of the UK didn't vote for this in the 1975 referendum it was the common market based on trade, not at all what we see today after numerous treaties. I need you to explain more, wires might be getting crossed.

The UK is a European member state signatory to all EU conventions except for the Euro currency, which is elected to opt out of. While I appreciate 'eurozone' is popularly used in reference to the 'Euro currency users', in this case I am applying that term to all members signatory to Maastricht and who have agreed to abide by the terms of that treaty - open borders, financial support, etc.

As I said, the UK knew full well it's responsibilities and obligations under this, and other, treaties. That situation is no different to the one you are defending Greece in against the EU. If the EU has to abide by it's "duties and obligations" by accepting Greece as a member, then the UK has to abide by it's "duties and obligations" in accepting membership of the EU.

Do you accept that such 'obedience to duty' cuts both ways? The UK can't bail on the EU just because it thinks the situation is more advantageous to it as a solo nation, and Greece should concede that the EU has a right to enforce those obligations that Greece undertook upon accepting membership. The EU is doing it's best to accommodate Greece under the rules that apply to all members, Greece is throwing a fit because those rules means it has to tighten up it's fiscal policy which Greece doesn't want to do because it has a culture of "playing loose".

Boo hoo for Greece.

[stevewinn]

The UK is a European member state signatory to all EU conventions except for the Euro currency, which is elected to opt out of. While I appreciate 'eurozone' is popularly used in reference to the 'Euro currency users', in this case I am applying that term to all members signatory to Maastricht and who have agreed to abide by the terms of that treaty - open borders, financial support, etc.

As I said, the UK knew full well it's responsibilities and obligations under this, and other, treaties. That situation is no different to the one you are defending Greece in against the EU. If the EU has to abide by it's "duties and obligations" by accepting Greece as a member, then the UK has to abide by it's "duties and obligations" in accepting membership of the EU.

Do you accept that such 'obedience to duty' cuts both ways? The UK can't bail on the EU just because it thinks the situation is more advantageous to it as a solo nation, and Greece should concede that the EU has a right to enforce those obligations that Greece undertook upon accepting membership. The EU is doing it's best to accommodate Greece under the rules that apply to all members, Greece is throwing a fit because those rules means it has to tighten up it's fiscal policy which Greece doesn't want to do because it has a culture of "playing loose".

Boo hoo for Greece.

I see where your coming from, The UK and any other member of the EU can leave the European Union if they choose to do so. But as long as we remain members we are expected abide by the rules. But the European Union doesn't supersede National Parliaments or Sovereignty. treaty or no treaty. That's why if the British people vote to leave we leave. no question, regardless of treaties signed. and the same applies to Greece the people of Greece have voted in a Government with a mandate against austerity. as a country and a government they have the democratic right to pursue that avenue, and any other course in their national interest.

[questionmark]

I see where your coming from, The UK and any other member of the EU can leave the European Union if they choose to do so. But as long as we remain members we are expected abide by the rules. But the European Union doesn't supersede National Parliaments or Sovereignty. treaty or no treaty. That's why if the British people vote to leave we leave. no question, regardless of treaties signed. and the same applies to Greece the people of Greece have voted in a Government with a mandate against austerity. as a country and a government they have the democratic right to pursue that avenue, and any other course in their national interest.

Where you are quite wrong. The EU (That is the Commission, Council and Parliament in agreement) supersedes national governments in many aspects of local legislation, especially when it comes to commerce, environment and labor laws. Whatever the EU Parliament decides has to be adopted as national law.

And the other thing you are wrong about is that the rest of the Eurozone actually "has" to pay for Greece's debts. Art. 125 of the Euro contract is a no-bailout clause, meaning it prohibits the other countries from bailing out any other Eurozone member from whatever. They can give them a credit... but that is the end of the legal possibilities. And credits come with conditions. Greece is not willing to accept those so there is no credit. That simple.

[Leonardo]

I see where your coming from, The UK and any other member of the EU can leave the European Union if they choose to do so. But as long as we remain members we are expected abide by the rules.

Yes. The protests of Greece are quite selfish. It's understandable but they knew the 'rules' when they accepted membership - just as the EU knew Greece's actual situation. Greece presumed it was getting a great deal, and it did for a while. Now it is paying for that great deal. Swings and roundabouts.

the people of Greece have voted in a Government with a mandate against austerity. as a country and a government they have the democratic right to pursue that avenue, and any other course in their national interest.

If they are able to meet their debt commitments without austerity, then all power to them. But can they?

I think the answer to that is probably "No". The Greek people can vote for whatever internal govt policy they want, that doesn't make Greece's obligations to other nation partners 'disappear'.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Leonardo