Anti-austerity coalition government in Greece

[Deleted]

They don't retire by the age of 50 , they retire by the age of 64,4 and 64,5 as I wrote before.

And that is the average which means some go earlier others later.

Edit; SO then Greece should leave if they are not willing to give a credit (your example is also weird because the kids are the country there is no father, they payed taxes they deserve something for it.) Because what advantage is there for the people in staying with the EU, also the policies, which the EU is proposing aren`t necessarily beneficial for the economy and I think they actually make the situation worse, which means Greece will be in the same situation next year or the year after (if by then not the global bubble did burst and all other countries join Greece into bankruptcy). So the EU must give them a credit under the conditions Greece want or let them leave.

Edited June 23, 2015 by hellwyr

[questionmark]

well, here is what Pension Developer seez about your 64.4

Despite past mergers of pension funds, the Greek retirement system remains complex and fragmented. Benefits are generous relative to wages and often claimed before age 60. Furthermore, the benefit structure offers little incentive for older workers to remain in the labor force, especially for low-income workers, whose minimum pensions are not reduced for early retirement. Without reform, the EU projects that pension spending in Greece will increase by 12.5 percent of GDP over the next four decades, well above the EU average rise of 2.4 percent of GDP.

Read more

So much for 64 point whatever.

Edited June 23, 2015 by questionmark

[Deleted]

http://www.oecd.org/...ghts-Greece.pdf

31 % of working population over 65

http://ec.europa.eu/...ion16034_en.pdf

minimum retirement for farmers fro example 65 ..etc

http://greece.greekr...ment-age-to-70/

retirement 65 women: http://ec.europa.eu/...ion16034_en.pdf

The figure I posted is a quote form the eu commission report and it is the average age, the pension system is more complicated and it depends on the profession and on your health situation.

some other article :

http://www.newstates...ess-lazy-greeks

and

http://hosnyzoabi.weebly.com/uploads/7/9/7/2/7972742/retirement_2012aug.pdf

Greece higher than UK, Germany, France

Edited June 23, 2015 by hellwyr

[questionmark]

Nobody seez that the Greeks are lazy if we exclude the public servants, who are precisely those who retire with 50-55. And they have the highest salaries.

Pulling a straw man does not get us anywhere.

[Harry_Dresden]

No one is saying that Greece is not to blame. They put themselves in this mess...

The problem was the EU bailout plan, under Merkel, and more importantly why was the rescue plan a failure from day one and why they persisted for 5 years?

Merkel purposely created a plan that would be imposible to implement to solve the Greek problem in order to remove Greece from the eurozone...

[[[]The intercept added that Hollande had complained that Merkel appeared to have "given up" on Greece when the two leaders met the week before in Berlin.]]]]

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0P32KC20150623?irpc=932

[Deleted]

Seems there is not going to be an agreement today xd

https://twitter.com/hashtag/Greece?src=hash

[stevewinn]

Greece cannot leave the Euro, it would dent the EU project, So we can all be sure this "Deal" will be passed, But just watch what happens to the Greek Government, surely the Dark forces within the EU will be summoned, Just like they where with ex-prime minster George Papandreou. How long before the Greek Government is removed from power? I'll give it less than 12 months. The EU simply cannot have a Government threatening the whole project.

[Duke Wellington]

With Germany's influence in the Eurozone waining still further with this result - what next for the Euro?

Source (BBC): http://www.bbc.com/n...europe-30981950

Once their industry has been rebuilt, once they have a technological edge they can sustain, they will leave.

We know it, the Americans know it, and its what Germany and France are being spied upon.

[kartikg]

Maybe Greece should sell off some of it lands ( government held) or lease it and pay some debt back. Leasing some exotic beaches for 100 years or so will lessen the debt burden.

[Mr.United_Nations]

Maybe Greece should sell off some of it lands ( government held) or lease it and pay some debt back. Leasing some exotic beaches for 100 years or so will lessen the debt burden.

Spain did something like that with the resorts, didnt work

[questionmark]

Maybe Greece should sell off some of it lands ( government held) or lease it and pay some debt back. Leasing some exotic beaches for 100 years or so will lessen the debt burden.

Whatever the government still owns is about as good as useless. The good land all somehow ended in private hands (whether it belonged to the government or not).

[kartikg]

Whatever the government still owns is about as good as useless. The good land all somehow ended in private hands (whether it belonged to the government or not).

Hmmmm , what else they have? Some portion of their gold .

[questionmark]

Hmmmm , what else they have? Some portion of their gold .

that would be worth 3.8 billion. They owe 10 times that amount to the IMF alone... not to mention the small factoid that were Greece to sell its gold "on masse" it would crash the gold price, so even getting 2 billions for it would be a miracle.

[Space Commander Travis]

that would be worth 3.8 billion. They owe 10 times that amount to the IMF alone... not to mention the small factoid that were Greece to sell its gold "on masse" it would crash the gold price, so even getting 2 billions for it would be a miracle.

Well, doesn't that statistic in itself show how ridiculous the whole thing is? 38 billion? There's no such number. It doesn't exist.

[questionmark]

Well, doesn't that statistic in itself show how ridiculous the whole thing is? 38 billion? There's no such number. It doesn't exist.

When they managed to spend that money it was very real. And you have to consider that they already got a 50% debt cut 5 years ago.

[stevewinn]

When Brazil defaulted on its debt in the late 90's Did all hell let loose? - whatever happened their economy doesn't seem to shabby today.

[Space Commander Travis]

really, don't you think, and I'm sure EU supporters (hello, QM) would agree with me, even if it is largely the fault of Greece for spending beyond their means, surely that just shows how hopeless the EU are as bankers. Any bank would first satisfy themselves as to the creditworthiness of anyone they loaned anything to, wouldn't they, and even any reputable loan shark ( ) would at the very least satisfy themselves that their victim client would have the ability to scrape together the money to repay them somehow, but the EU and European central Bank just seemed to metaphorically drive a forty tonne truck up, tip out trillions of Euros, and then drive off again, so that naturally all the people would come scurrying up to help themselves to the free money and the popularity of the EU would go thru the roof. It was exactly the same, of course, with Spain, Portugal, and all the other Eastern European countries that they couldn't wait to welcome into the Big European Tent, regardless of what sort of state their economies were in. And now the EU and the European central bank are getting themselves into a tizzy of panic that they can't pay them back. Well, it's your own fault, stupids.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Norbert the Incredible

[stevewinn]

really, don't you think, and I'm sure EU supporters (hello, QM) would agree with me, even if it is largely the fault of Greece for spending beyond their means, surely that just shows how hopeless the EU are as bankers. Any bank would first satisfy themselves as to the creditworthiness of anyone they loaned anything to, wouldn't they, and even any reputable loan shark ( ) would at the very least satisfy themselves that their victim client would have the ability to scrape together the money to repay them somehow, but the EU and European central Bank just seemed to metaphorically drive a forty tonne truck up, tip out trillions of Euros, and then drive off again, so that naturally all the people would come scurrying up to help themselves to the free money and the popularity of the EU would go thru the roof. It was exactly the same, of course, with Spain, Portugal, and all the other Eastern European countries that they couldn't wait to welcome into the Big European Tent, regardless of what sort of state their economies were in. And now the EU and the European central bank are getting themselves into a tizzy of panic that they can't pay them back. Well, it's your own fault, stupids.

The EU project is a ideology. which nothing is allowed to get in the way, That's why the EU has its problems. Michael Portillo on "this week" last night had it right. and i found it interesting about all the border checks now happening in EU countries as a result of the mass illegal immigration. showing one of the corner stones of the EU - Schengen is also failing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b060dsmb/this-week-25062015

[Space Commander Travis]

Michael Portillo? he's talking about politics now? Next thing they'll be having Jeremy Clarkson's views on the Euro.

[questionmark]

really, don't you think, and I'm sure EU supporters (hello, QM) would agree with me, even if it is largely the fault of Greece for spending beyond their means, surely that just shows how hopeless the EU are as bankers. Any bank would first satisfy themselves as to the creditworthiness of anyone they loaned anything to, wouldn't they, and even any reputable loan shark ( ) would at the very least satisfy themselves that their victim client would have the ability to scrape together the money to repay them somehow, but the EU and European central Bank just seemed to metaphorically drive a forty tonne truck up, tip out trillions of Euros, and then drive off again, so that naturally all the people would come scurrying up to help themselves to the free money and the popularity of the EU would go thru the roof. It was exactly the same, of course, with Spain, Portugal, and all the other Eastern European countries that they couldn't wait to welcome into the Big European Tent, regardless of what sort of state their economies were in. And now the EU and the European central bank are getting themselves into a tizzy of panic that they can't pay them back. Well, it's your own fault, stupids.

If you don't realize that you are spending more than you make (and some years like 2004 4 times what they made) then you have no business handling money. You should be a ward of the state. Problem with states is that they cannot be.

No, there were many factors, and many people doing something against their better judgement (like lending Greece money as if it were France or Germany) but there is only one responsible party, and that was those past Greek governments who signed those loan agreements or printed the state bonds. Nobody else.

If you make a living out of maxing out your credit card you cannot blame the credit card company either for your bankruptcy.

[stevewinn]

If you don't realize that you are spending more than you make (and some years like 2004 4 times what they made) then you have no business handling money. You should be a ward of the state. Problem with states is that they cannot be.

No, there were many factors, and many people doing something against their better judgement (like lending Greece money as if it were France or Germany) but there is only one responsible party, and that was those past Greek governments who signed those loan agreements or printed the state bonds. Nobody else.

If you make a living out of maxing out your credit card you cannot blame the credit card company either for your bankruptcy.

If the credit card company (european union) knew a customer (Greece) credit rating was poor, and the customer never met the criteria to be accepted for the credit card in the first place, but the credit card company turned a blind eye and still issued the customer with the credit card - whose fault is it. if the customer goes and spends the money and why should the credit card company be surprised when the customer cannot pay back their credit. or the overdraft the credit card company allowed the customer to build up.

The two are to blame but not equally, the Credit card company shouldn't have allowed or taken advantage of the Customer. But then, when the goal all along was for the Customer to be indebted and a full member of EU-PLC. what could possibly go wrong.

[kartikg]

If the credit card company (european union) knew a customer (Greece) credit rating was poor, and the customer never met the criteria to be accepted for the credit card in the first place, but the credit card company turned a blind eye and still issued the customer with the credit card - whose fault is it. if the customer goes and spends the money and why should the credit card company be surprised when the customer cannot pay back their credit. or the overdraft the credit card company allowed the customer to build up.

The two are to blame but not equally, the Credit card company shouldn't have allowed or taken advantage of the Customer. But then, when the goal all along was for the Customer to be indebted and a full member of EU-PLC. what could possibly go wrong.

But accordingly if they had not extended the lending then Greece would have been in chaos already which might have meant inflation severe job loss etc then one would have blamed EU for not helping them . So EU gets blamed anyway. And as you mentioned the eu doesn't want to be fooled again thus they are asking strict measures this time.

[Space Commander Travis]

If you don't realize that you are spending more than you make (and some years like 2004 4 times what they made) then you have no business handling money. You should be a ward of the state. Problem with states is that they cannot be.

No, there were many factors, and many people doing something against their better judgement (like lending Greece money as if it were France or Germany) but there is only one responsible party, and that was those past Greek governments who signed those loan agreements or printed the state bonds. Nobody else.

If you make a living out of maxing out your credit card you cannot blame the credit card company either for your bankruptcy.

So it's still all Greece's fault then, and the European bank is let off the hook altogether? it should be up to them to lend responsibly. They're no better than the banks that landed themselves in the <row of asterisks> and had to be bailed out by the taxpayer. But you're shifting blame for their irresponsibility on the ones they lent money to?

[questionmark]

It is not like the banks did not pay their part of the bill, how fast do we all forget the 50% bond haircut that was given by the banks (amounting to around 100 billion Euros in write offs).

All are pretending that somebody is after getting the Greeks, well Greek undisciplined spending to this day has cost its lenders around 230 billion Euros. It is about time to see Greece taking some steps to be weened off charity.

[stevewinn]

It is not like the banks did not pay their part of the bill, how fast do we all forget the 50% bond haircut that was given by the banks (amounting to around 100 billion Euros in write offs).

All are pretending that somebody is after getting the Greeks, well Greek undisciplined spending to this day has cost its lenders around 230 billion Euros. It is about time to see Greece taking some steps to be weened off charity.

Interesting NEWS, Greece is to hold a Referendum, Nothing strikes fear more than that word Referendum - in the hearts of the Euro-Elite. every time there's been a referendum the EU have lost, The French Said no, the Dutch said No, Both referendums where ignored. and the ideology carried on regardless, The Irish Said No, and where made to vote again. - This Greek government isn't going to last long, remember when ex-Greek Prime minister George Papandreou, at the very outset of this crisis dared to mentioned the dreaded R-word, and he was soon replaced by a EU apparatchik.

In related NEWS questionmark, remember when you was c***-a-hoop when the €URO v £Pound Sterling exchange rate was hovering around £1.00 - €1.11 and at one point it was one for one. IE: one £ bought you €. and you was singing from the roof tops that Britain was on its knees. and the mighty EU was, well mighty. - well today i see the exchange rate is £1.00 to €1.40 Euro. how times have changed. and before you go on about exports, you wasnt saying that when the boot was on the other foot.

Edited June 27, 2015 by stevewinn