Anti-austerity coalition government in Greece

[skookum]

Surely we must be getting to a point were a Grexit is going to be less damaging long term to letting this caper drag on?

[stevewinn]

Surely we must be getting to a point were a Grexit is going to be less damaging long term to letting this caper drag on?

less damaging for whom, is the question? For the EU project it would be devastating. especially if next year the United Kingdom voted to leave. that would be two countries gone, one out of the Eurozone, and one out of the political Union. - and whats more both would flourish outside the EU.

Greece is being devastated by the EU, what more, and how much more can the Greek people take, i don't think we can fully comprehend the severity of the situation, Greece as be in a Depression, some figures show its even worse than the Great Depression of the USA, in the 1920's. - the staggering fact is 25% of the Greek economy is destroyed, and the EU want to continue to grind it further into the dust. IF we want to be seriously depressed look at the social figures in Greece, unemployment, its 25%. youth unemployment is 49%.

The situation simply cannot continue, the Country is being destroyed for a ideology. a ideology that cares little for country and even less for the people.

[questionmark]

Interesting NEWS, Greece is to hold a Referendum, Nothing strikes fear more than that word Referendum - in the hearts of the Euro-Elite. every time there's been a referendum the EU have lost, The French Said no, the Dutch said No, Both referendums where ignored. and the ideology carried on regardless, The Irish Said No, and where made to vote again. - This Greek government isn't going to last long, remember when ex-Greek Prime minister George Papandreou, at the very outset of this crisis dared to mentioned the dreaded R-word, and he was soon replaced by a EU apparatchik.

In related NEWS questionmark, remember when you was c***-a-hoop when the €URO v £Pound Sterling exchange rate was hovering around £1.00 - €1.11 and at one point it was one for one. IE: one £ bought you €. and you was singing from the roof tops that Britain was on its knees. and the mighty EU was, well mighty. - well today i see the exchange rate is £1.00 to €1.40 Euro. how times have changed. and before you go on about exports, you wasnt saying that when the boot was on the other foot.

Keep on being happy, we will talk in a few month about this again....

Now, Tsipras is pulling this referendum thingy out of his hat because he wants to distract from the fact that he ran the cart against the wall (he can always say that the people stabbed his back). And the most probable end will be that Greece will default and stay in the Euro... the Euro will go further down against the pound and dollar and BMW, Mercedes, Alstom and Siemens are rubbing their hands.

[Deleted]

Tspiras wants to let the people vote on the subject, I think this is a good step, now it is directly people versus EU

[questionmark]

Greece's largest newspaper's take on this:

Source

[stevewinn]

Keep on being happy, we will talk in a few month about this again....

Now, Tsipras is pulling this referendum thingy out of his hat because he wants to distract from the fact that he ran the cart against the wall (he can always say that the people stabbed his back). And the most probable end will be that Greece will default and stay in the Euro... the Euro will go further down against the pound and dollar and BMW, Mercedes, Alstom and Siemens are rubbing their hands.

Your far to confident. when the situation is more serious, the Euro is devaluing or failing because the lack of market confidence in the Eurozone currency as a whole, this is the worst type of devaluing. for the number one reason the EU has no control over it whatsoever - The BIG difference between - when the British pound was devalued, was we had full fiscal control, as a direct result of us having a sovereign currency, and the economic levers to adjust the economy to suit our economic situation. we achieved our devaluing by quantitative easing. - The Eurozone is at the mercy of the markets. as for the companies you mentioned rubbing their hands - If it keeps falling against the Dollar, they'll be rubbing their hands to relieve the pain from having to push the wheelbarrow to purchase a loaf of bread. (Weimar Rep days all over again)

[questionmark]

Your far to confident. when the situation is more serious, the Euro is devaluing or failing because the lack of market confidence in the Eurozone currency as a whole, this is the worst type of devaluing. for the number one reason the EU has no control over it whatsoever - The BIG difference between - when the British pound was devalued, was we had full fiscal control, as a direct result of us having a sovereign currency, and the economic levers to adjust the economy to suit our economic situation. we achieved our devaluing by quantitative easing. - The Eurozone is at the mercy of the markets. as for the companies you mentioned rubbing their hands - If it keeps falling against the Dollar, they'll be rubbing their hands to relieve the pain from having to push the wheelbarrow to purchase a loaf of bread. (Weimar Rep days all over again)

So, what iuus the market going to do besides devaluating the Euro? Take Draghis birthday away?

Edited June 27, 2015 by questionmark

[kartikg]

Tspiras wants to let the people vote on the subject, I think this is a good step, now it is directly people versus EU

How is this issue seen in Greece? Does average citizen knows the implications of choosing one against other? Does Greek government has plans for economy or is it like choose whatever you want and depending on the results we will act. Are people voting regionally or emotionaly?

[skookum]

Breaking news, Eurozone Bailout Extension Refused.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33300543

Interesting days ahead.

[questionmark]

How is this issue seen in Greece? Does average citizen knows the implications of choosing one against other? Does Greek government has plans for economy or is it like choose whatever you want and depending on the results we will act. Are people voting regionally or emotionaly?

The average citizen is voting with his/her feet. They are running as fast as they can to get all their deposits from the bank. Monday will be chaos.

[acidhead]

The average citizen is voting with his/her feet. They are running as fast as they can to get all their deposits from the bank. Monday will be chaos.

You gotta pair of Air Jordans Questionmark?

[questionmark]

You gotta pair of Air Jordans Questionmark?

To the contrary of most I saw it coming so I don't have to worry about the few hundred left in my last Greek account (mostly there to pay the bills).

[SHaYap]

That reminds me of an occasion where a friend bought a pair of those fancy NBA Nikes and the shoes fell apart within a month only to be told by the sales people that he shouldn't have gone running in them ... the shoes were not designed for 'running'

~

[Leonardo]

So it's still all Greece's fault then, and the European bank is let off the hook altogether? it should be up to them to lend responsibly.

How do you know they didn't?

A nation is in a different situation than a person when applying for a loan, as the nation can 'cook the books' to give the impression their financial situation is not as fragile as it really is.

Now, I'm not saying Greece's administration(s) acted improperly - it might be that they presented a perfect representation of the dire situation their economy was in. However, we don't know how (i.e. the state of) the economy was presented when loans were applied for, nor do we know what conditions might have been attached to those loans that the Greek govts may, or may not, have fulfilled.

What we do know is that the Greek govts (past and perhaps present) readily adopted a 'hands-off' attitude to tax reform and addressing a problematic public employment sector. They also appear to have spent the money loaned on frivolous or unnecessary things, rather than firm up the underlying weaknesses in the economic infrastructure.

Greece's past borrowing was not untenable if the govts had had the political will to use it to produce and/or protect actual income-generating projects. But the govts wanted to be popular rather than practical, and now the Greek people are paying the price for their lack of prudence in selecting a govt that will help the nation, rather than simply promote "feel-good".

Edited June 27, 2015 by Leonardo

[Space Commander Travis]

How do you know they didn't?

A nation is in a different situation than a person when applying for a loan, as the nation can 'cook the books' to give the impression their financial situation is not as fragile as it really is.

So the european central Bank, the smartest people in Europe, were conned by the untrustworthy greeks? That's quite a compliment to Greece. Although I suppose to be fair, they (the european Bank people) were in an impossible position trying to make this one size fits all currency fit all sizes, when it was clearly impossible to do so, although of course they had to try to satisfy the political ambitions of their masters.

[questionmark]

So the european central Bank, the smartest people in Europe, were conned by the untrustworthy greeks? That's quite a compliment to Greece. Although I suppose to be fair, they (the european Bank people) were in an impossible position trying to make this one size fits all currency fit all sizes, when it was clearly impossible to do so, although of course they had to try to satisfy the political ambitions of their masters.

Tell me just one case before Greece where bankers and bond-buyers relied on anything but the statistics published by the governments and banks.... those were pretty reliable until Greek statistics were invented.

And if the guys in Frankfurt were the best and the smartest they would have pulled the plug years ago. They went above and beyond their duties to save the PIIGS, and in 4 cases succeeded.... but there the governments were willing to do their part. And no, the Central Bank did not lend money to governments, until the PIIGS ran into trouble it was against the ECB's rules to do so... and once the other four are stable again that will be the rule again.

But in all this looking to Greece we all seem to miss that in Brussels something important happened: until now they all were bending backwards to accommodate all with a compromise. They have shown that there is a limit to what they are willing to swallow. That is history now.

Edited June 28, 2015 by questionmark

[Harry_Dresden]

So the european central Bank, the smartest people in Europe, were conned by the untrustworthy greeks? That's quite a compliment to Greece. Although I suppose to be fair, they (the european Bank people) were in an impossible position trying to make this one size fits all currency fit all sizes, when it was clearly impossible to do so, although of course they had to try to satisfy the political ambitions of their masters.

The only people that were played were the Greek people. If they defaulted back in 2010 then Europe would have gone down the guggler with them. The EU/ECB/IMF played for time pretending to prop up a basket case with even MORE debt in order to firewall their own economies and NOW that the Germans have achieved this they can now safely call Greece's bluff, as they have.

This is where they cut Greece loose but not before making it as difficult and politically costly as possible for a nation that should never have put itself in such a position. Tsipras has played into Germany's hands with his socialist rhetoric and immature bargaining. The EU (insert Germany) will now strangle the Greek banking system and any credit that Greece seeks abroad in order to make an example for others to not do.

With friends like Germany, Greece needs no enemies and as such it needs to look to the east financially and politically.

Get out Greece, shallow the bitter pill and never look back.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Harry_Dresden

[skookum]

Latest is the ECB is going to end Greek Bank lifeline which will probably force the Greece to announce a Bank Holiday tomorrow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-33303105

This looks like it is gathering pace now.

The Austrian finance minister has now said that a Greek exit looks inevitable.

http://news.sky.com/story/1509620/greece-exit-from-eurozone-almost-inevitable

Edited June 28, 2015 by skookum

[stevewinn]

The average citizen is voting with his/her feet. They are running as fast as they can to get all their deposits from the bank. Monday will be chaos.

Well i thought the average citizen made their choice when they voted in Syriza a left wing government. who from the outset said they'd be against the current EU-Greek terms and conditions for future bailouts.

Latest is the ECB is going to end Greek Bank lifeline which will probably force the Greece to announce a Bank Holiday tomorrow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-33303105

This looks like it is gathering pace now.

The Austrian finance minister has now said that a Greek exit looks inevitable.

http://news.sky.com/...most-inevitable

The Austrian minister seems to be highlighting something which seems to be overlooked. a Greek exit looks inevitable - because correct me if im wrong.The ECB is to pull ELA with immediate effect, well, doesnt that mean there is nothing to left to have a referendum on, Greece will not have a bailout package to vote on at the stroke of midnight on Tuesday. the referendum isnt penciled in till th 5th July anyway. So have the EU pushed Greece? with the Euro devaluing have Germany/ECB decided a strategy of preserving the value and integrity of the currency over Greece? its going to be interesting at opening tomorrow (Monday) How are the markets going to react. RED, RED, RED.

edit to add:

how long before the Greek Government is replaced: and a pro EU one installed: watch that space. the cynic in me thinks the EU will engineer a internal uprising in Greece, not by the majority but large enough to do the EU's dirty work for them.

Edited June 28, 2015 by stevewinn

[Harry_Dresden]

France's Valls says ECB should not cut support for Greek banks

he European Central Bank should not cut off support to Greek banks even if the country misses a June 30 deadline for debt repayments it cannot afford to make, French Prime Minister Manuel Valls said on Sunday.

"The European Central Bank is independent, but I don't doubt it will assume its responsibilities," Valls said in an interview broadcast on Europe 1 radio. "I don't think it can cut off support, to put it another way."

Valls also sounded a warning to Greek voters that a "no" vote in the upcoming referendum on a proposed debt deal could amount to a decision to leave the euro zone.

"The Greek people must be able to decide lucidly," Valls said. "If there's a negative vote, there is a real risk ...of exiting the euro zone." [Reuters]

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite2_1_28/06/2015_551608

[skookum]

LOL, in other words they know the Greek people will vote so they can stay in the Euro. The EU will be happy it has gained its victory and the Greek Government can safely stay in office with the scathing cut backs it has been forced to make on the back of the referendum.

Everyone is a winner.

Edited June 28, 2015 by skookum

[Leonardo]

Funny isn't it how Syriza already had a mandate to reject the EU's demands and exit Greece from the EU and the eurozone, but when push came to shove they chickened out. But people still keep believing promises political parties make to get elected.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Leonardo

[questionmark]

Funny isn't it how Syriza already had a mandate to reject the EU's demands and exit Greece from the EU and the eurozone, but when push came to shove they chickened out. But people still keep believing promises political parties make to get elected.

They have claimed all electoral campaign long that they would keep Greece in the Eurozone (else, and given the current polls, they never would have gotten more than 25% of the votes).

The Greeks voters were those who believed that you can eat the cake and keep it for the next party. Because Syriza promised it.

[Leonardo]

how long before the Greek Government is replaced: and a pro EU one installed: watch that space. the cynic in me thinks the EU will engineer a internal uprising in Greece, not by the majority but large enough to do the EU's dirty work for them.

It doesn't (and didn't) matter what political ideology is elected to administer to Greece, the country is headed for the crapper. That was as true two years (maybe even longer) ago as it is today.

The only real choice the Greek people had was how hard their fall was going to be, and in electing Syriza who basically promised to get them ejected from the EU they ensured their fall would be very hard indeed. Greece's economy will still plummet if it stays in the EU, but the blow would be cushioned somewhat by the support that organisation would be able to provide.

The people fell for a sucker's pitch by Syriza that it could "make things better". The politicians knew that was never going to be the case, they only wanted to be elected into positions of power so they could ride out the storm that's coming in relative comfort.

qm,

They have claimed all electoral campaign long that they would keep Greece in the Eurozone (else, and given the current polls, they never would have gotten more than 25% of the votes).

The Greeks voters were those who believed that you can eat the cake and keep it for the next party. Because Syriza promised it.

Syriza's policy promises were never going to be acceptable to either the EU, the ECB or the IMF - and Syriza knew it. They played the Greek people for fools, and the Greeks fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Leonardo

[questionmark]

Syriza's policy promises were never going to be acceptable to either the EU, the ECB or the IMF - and Syriza knew it. They played the Greek people for fools, and the Greeks fell for it hook, line and sinker.

correct, the Game Theory Professor (otherwise known as Gianis Varoufakis) came up with a brilliant plan to leave the stage as heroes and rule Greece forever (or in simpler words: inherit the position of the now almost defunct PASOK)... looks like now they will last until the next general elections, in the EU or out of it.

And update: The bank-o-mats in the parliament building ran out of money yesterday too!

Edited June 28, 2015 by questionmark