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Anti-austerity coalition government in Greece


keithisco

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It can only remain strong and stable if this crisis is resolved.

The whole debt crisis is not just a Greek problem, most of the large players are running huge debts as well.

Debt slavery is the oldest game in the book and Greece have called time on those who profit from it.

Br Cornelius

Correct... it's Europe's problem now dealing with the debt elephant in the room. It wasn't just a case of 'debt slavery' there's the issue of German economic warfare on Greece. Choking liquidity from Greece's banks and all the scare mongering was mean't to change the government in Greece. This is/was a blatant disregard for the sovereign rights of Greece by a supposed democratic Germany.

Well done Greece for sticking it too ZGermans. Hopefully the French grow a pair and start to provide some balance to the EU instead of rubber stamping Merkels German only agenda.

Edited by Harry_Dresden
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Like the suggestion that the West had nothing at all to do with the "uprising" in Ukraine, you mean? Yes, I agree there.

What an imagination you have. I have never said the West "had nothing to do with" the uprising. It is a long jump from "having nothing to do with" to engineering an internal uprising.

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Guest Br Cornelius

Because the EU kept pushing money on them.

There is such a thing a due diligence when making private loans. The EU grants were not loans and it is the private debts which private banks allowed to build up which was irresponsible. This was an inevitable outcome of liberalizing the financial sector on a boom market. Due diligence was a forgotten concept because the economists suddenly couldn't see an end to the money train and didn't prepare for the inevitable crash.

The Greeks and the Irish and the Portugees and Spanish are all victims of an economic model which came badly off the rails. Its classic blame the victims for a system that created the crisis in the first place.

Br Cornelius

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Q, your saying De Spiegel is wrong. You say the ECB couldn't buy Bonds until a change in 2015. we have news pieces dating from 2010, onwards of the ECB repeatedly buying Government bonds.

2010

http://www.spiegel.d...e-a-697680.html

2011

The European Central Bank on Thursday resumed buying government bonds and offering loans to the region’s banks in an attempt to relieve tensions in eurozone financial markets.

http://www.ft.com/cm...l#axzz3f0smnzQq

ECB buys €22bn in eurozone bonds: The European Central Bank spent €22bn on government bonds last week – more than ever before – as it sought to prevent the Eurozone debt crisis escalating out of control.

http://www.ft.com/cm...l#axzz3f0smnzQq

ECB says will "actively implement" bond-buying: The European Central Bank said on Sunday it would "actively implement" its controversial bond-buying programme to fight the euro zone's debt crisis

http://www.reuters.c...E7762PE20110807

The European Central Bank drove yields on Italian and Spanish debt sharply lower Monday when it bought sovereign bonds issued by both countries for the first time:

http://www.wsj.com/a...495642494019216

Sorry, but they did not "buy" them and they did not get them from the involved countries. They took them off the hands of banks that had purchased them previously to fix the bank's balance sheet, not to subsidize any state as you are implying. They were stabilizing banks. Or subsidizing banks that were dumb enough to buy those trash papers and were system relevant enough to merit aid.

That changed in 2012, but by then nobody was dumb enough to buy any Greek T-bonds anyway. After the announcement that the ECB would buy unlimited quantities of European bonds they have hardly bought a single one... because the hedge funds knew that it was not worth speculating with them. And probably the only reason for the ECJ to almost nullify Art 127.

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The Greek government now has a resounding mandate from it's people, maybe the Greeks should be thrown to the Wolves.Merkel will surely be kicked out by the German electorate if she backs down.She has cornered herself with her hard stance and her only option left is to stand firm.

Edited by shaddow134
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i just dont know where greece will go from here , it was clear the last time they was going to be unable to pay the debt back . i visited there in may and it really is a mess the roads and foot paths are dangerous , is it going to back to the days where the country is taken over ?, or another country buys out and has control? or just keep on borrowing , feel for the people living there its them who its affecting , all goverment power again as i just read . " money makes the world go around"

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i just dont know where greece will go from here , it was clear the last time they was going to be unable to pay the debt back . i visited there in may and it really is a mess the roads and foot paths are dangerous , is it going to back to the days where the country is taken over ?, or another country buys out and has control?

No, by standing firm against the tyranny of the EU, they've managed to prevent that happening at least.
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No, by standing firm against the tyranny of the EU, they've managed to prevent that happening at least.

i hope they carry on standing firm be a shame if something like that was to happen. what do you think about it all ?
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No, by standing firm against the tyranny of the EU, they've managed to prevent that happening at least.

The EU has no problem with it as you see from their reactions: You don't want the money? You don't get it.... we will start packing Care Packages.

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in related news:

Greek bank merger suspended over private sector bond write-downs

Athens Stock Exchange suspended on January 31 trading in shares of Alpha Bank and EFG Eurobank, whose proposed merger would create the country's largest banking group.

The decision came after Alpha Bank said that it froze negotiations until the deal to write-down private sector holdings of Greek government debt is finalised. Reports in Greece said that Alpha Bank, which is less exposed to Greek government debt, was hoping to obtain better merger terms for its shareholders, namely better share-swap ratios, rather than considering cancelling the merger altogether.

In a statement, Alpha Bank said that the private sector write-downs, which aim to reduce Greece's national debt by a much a 100 billion euro, would affect the two banking groups "in a disproportionate manner."

Read more

Between the lines: it looks like the Bulgarian subsidiaries of Greek banks have invested Europe's poorest saver's money in Greek government junk bonds... so much for "victims".

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I could put it in either thread really, but this from the Spectator is quite interesting.

Does anybody still believe that the EU is a benign institution?

Nick Cohen 6 July 2015

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I could put it in either thread really, but this from the Spectator is quite interesting.

Does anybody still believe that the EU is a benign institution?

Nick Cohen 6 July 2015

Thew EU was never intended to be the salvation army... especially not for those who spend year on year 10% (or around 10 billion euros) more than they can make (which also happens to be 5% of the GDP) to keep people in positions created to return political favors.

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I could put it in either thread really, but this from the Spectator is quite interesting.

Does anybody still believe that the EU is a benign institution?

Nick Cohen 6 July 2015

Interesting point of views. And he is right as I am concerned I really was supporting the EU as a peace project which creates equality abandons borders and creates a "free" Europe. But 1. I think that attitude is missing in Europe and it is only superficially used to drive personal ambitions, 2. I don`t think the EU creates nationalism, I think the people who are in power use the EU to create nationalism and their media is backing it. 3. Also a crucial thing is missing, the democratic legitimacy, which makes it hard to believe in the EU. 4. Also the politicians which momentarily hold power within the EU handled the crisis in the worst possible way, with childish negotiations and media propaganda, the EU only works if there is a feeling of equality and unity, but Germany above all Merkel and other conservatives have succeeded in establishing some sort of feudal structure, where there a lords and their supplicators. This attitude undermines the EU and its purpose and transforms it in some sort of imperial structure. But that is something which Europe already has seen and doesn't need again, so if they don`t alter their course I say the EU is finished, cause as written in the blog you provided, they lose the support of the left. What then remains are the conservatives.

Edit: And the conservatives aren`t strong enough to support the Eu as their chessboard, because their voters aren`t to fond of the Eu and are mostly nationalists or people who are in favor of mercantilism/protectionism.

Edited by hellwyr
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Thew EU was never intended to be the salvation army... especially not for those who spend year on year 10% (or around 10 billion euros) more than they can make (which also happens to be 5% of the GDP) to keep people in positions created to return political favors.

So we should in fact be feeling sympathy for the EU, for being conned by the devious & untrustworthy Greeks. :(
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So we should in fact be feeling sympathy for the EU, for being conned by the devious & untrustworthy Greeks. :(

No, we should feel no sympathy for the Greeks who are trying to get away with more of the same... which is not quite the same.

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So telling the EU that they can stuff their "gift" is trying to get away with more of the same, is it? I thought it was just the opposite.

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So telling the EU that they can stuff their "gift" is trying to get away with more of the same, is it? I thought it was just the opposite.

I don't know what "gift" you are talking about. You make it sound as if somebody in the EU twisted the Greek MPs arm since 1981 until they started printing bonds to pay the salaries of the positions created for their cousins and cousins of their political allies. (which at this point runs, with retirements and all, at 10 billion a year).

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Just look at your NEWS screens, whose at the podium. Germany and France, that tells you everything you need to know. and whose running the show - a EU crisis, ECB crisis and its faceless leaders are not to be seen, Just Frau Merkel and the puppet Hollande.

I liked the piece in Norberts link, when they say about the IMF would have never allowed Greece to get into such a state, and its spot on the money. the IMF when they get involved always tell the Sovereign Nation to devalue their economy to a level which matches the economic situation. But with Greece being a member of the Eurozone they were unable to devalue, so the IMF was stuck in a three way dance with the EU, ECB and Greece. the number one lever of power in any economic crisis is the ability to devalue your currency - this option was taken away from the IMF and not in Greek hands.

Im just ecstatic the United Kingdom never joined the Euro. This was a pivotal point in our Country's History. It was this fact we never joined - was our salvation in this economic crisis. and remember when in 1998 we was told as a Nation, if we don't join the Euro currency we'd lose 6 million jobs and be left behind economically. So bear that in mind in the forthcoming Referendum on our continued EU Membership. because the Battle for Britain will be fought on the same battlelines and lies.

Edited by stevewinn
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I congratulate Greece with her recent voting result against the crony capitalist elitist clique seated in Brussels (or was it Strasbourg?)..

Europe's attack on Greece democracy

Author: Joseph E. Stiglitz, a Nobel laureate in economics and University Professor at Columbia University, former Chairman of President Bill Clinton’s Council of Economic Advisers, former Senior Vice President and Chief Economist of the World Bank.

Edited by Phaeton80
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Does Greece produce anything of value or have natural resources they can capitalize on?

over 85% of the their economy is within Greece. The Service sector is the biggest contribution to their GDP, 80'odd percent. they refine oil, but have to import it. - But Greece relies on Tourism. i cant remember where i seen the figure, but i've seen quote 25% of their GDP is tourism, If Greece was outside the Eurozone and had their own currency they could have devalued their economy making Greece the cheapest place to holiday in the Mediterranean, this would have been a welcomed boost to their services sector, and helped with their unemployment rate as millions flock to Holiday there.

But as it stands their hands are tied and with them being a net importer and no money to purchase goods the whole tourism industry will likely be no cheaper than any other Mediterranean country. so losing out on a excellent opportunity to turn this mess around and get out of this financial mess. plus if they could have devalued their exports would be cheaper.

Edited by stevewinn
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Does Greece produce anything of value or have natural resources they can capitalize on?

No, thank god, else they would have been plundered by the political nepotism by now.

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I congratulate Greece with her recent voting result against the crony capitalist elitist clique seated in Brussels (or was it Strasbourg?)..

Europe's attack on Greece democracy

Author: Joseph E. Stiglitz, a Nobel laureate in economics and University Professor at Columbia University, former Chairman of President Bill Clinton’s Council of Economic Advisers, former Senior Vice President and Chief Economist of the World Bank.

What attack, they decided not to accept the conditions to get the money so they are not getting it. Where is the problem?

This starts reminding me of the typical extreme left welfare debate.

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What attack, they decided not to accept the conditions to get the money so they are not getting it. Where is the problem?

This starts reminding me of the typical extreme left welfare debate.

The way that the European Empire wanted to destroy Greece out of pure vindictiveness unless they paid back their extortion? That attack?
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The way that the European Empire wanted to destroy Greece out of pure vindictiveness unless they paid back their extortion? That attack?

The way that the European Empire wanted to destroy Greece out of pure vindictiveness unless they paid back their extortion? That attack?

They have tried giving them money, did not work, they decided to reduce their debt, did not work. Every year about 10 billion Euros disappear that are supposed to develop the country. The only thing that develops is the nepotistic structures creating jobs in the public administration for politicians' extended families and for their avid voters.

And if you think that the Germans are bad, ask the Baltic countries, the Dutch, the Belgians, the Slovaks and the Poles what their opinion is. They are openly talking about kicking the Greeks out. The Germans just insist on Greece sticking to the rules.

Additionally, in most of the countries the parliaments have to approve negotiations (it is not like in Britain where the boss decides to pass out some cash) for a new rescue package. Most of those countries are not going to approve any help without reforms, no matter how bad it is for the Greeks.

A debt cut will be hugely unpopular in most of the EU countries and most current politicians will loose their jobs over it. So the minimum they can ask for is that Greece reforms its spending habits to a sustainable level to do that.

If they don't want to do that then that is it: solve your problems yourself. That is not vindictive, that is standing for the interests of those that have elected them.

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