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Anti-austerity coalition government in Greece


keithisco
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We already know what happens with a "debt reform", the month after the banks will be eager to give Greece all the money it can carry and when that is spent know that somebody will "reform" the debt.

The only honorable way to get out of debt is to spend less than you are making. That goes for countries as well as for persons. The other way is to declare bankruptcy.

And this is not about people, it is about 2 billion Euros that the creditors ask Greece to spend less every year, and that could easily be achieved without anybody suffering (save some Northern European arms manufacturers) by cutting the military budget 20%. But Greek governments preferred to take it from the little people... the current government prefers to spend 2 billion more at the expense of the rest of Europe. The rest of Europe is in no way inclined to humor them.

It has everything to do with people as far as the current Greek government is concerned. And rightly so. The Germans and their lackey's in Europe can continue to choke the life outta the Greek economy by kicking the average Greek in the guts and still expect them to crawl their way outta the abyss but the fact remains that just maybe there is is/was another way to grow the economy and deal with the debt in a realistic manner... at least the IMF thinks so. It's not about just 2 billion its about a light at the end of the tunnel. Greece had a debt problem and the troika lent it even more to "help" it. This is the underlining fact and if you bothered to read what you quoted you'd realise that it was at Germanys insistence that the 'little people' get reamed first. The fact that you propose taking the extra humiliation out of the defence budget only means that the little people have no more to give.

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In fact the Greek government even offered several days ago to implement anything that the EU wanted, including cuts wherever they wished too if only to reduce debt and institute a investment plan so the Greek people and government can start to grow their economy. Alas the Germans have other plans...

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In fact the Greek government even offered several days ago to implement anything that the EU wanted, including cuts wherever they wished too if only to reduce debt and institute a investment plan so the Greek people and government can start to grow their economy. Alas the Germans have other plans...

While at the same time announcing on Greek TV that they would not bow to any European dictate and keep to their promises of higher expenses.

In fact they sent the same proposals with the same bottom line back to Brussels making Mdme. Lagarde exclaim that she wished she would not have to deal with a kindergarten. And they are doing that because Mr. Game-Theory-Professor (otherwise known as Janis Varufakis) thinks that the rest of Europe is so scared of Greece defaulting that they can keep on upping the pot. In fact, in the Syriza party central they are still thinking that they will get everything they want if they just keep blaming Europe and the IWF long enough for their woes.

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In fact the Greek government even offered several days ago to implement anything that the EU wanted, including cuts wherever they wished too if only to reduce debt and institute a investment plan so the Greek people and government can start to grow their economy. Alas the Germans have other plans...

Maybe the Germans will buy Greece and its debts for a Euro and use it as a holiday home

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It has everything to do with people as far as the current Greek government is concerned. And rightly so. The Germans and their lackey's in Europe can continue to choke the life outta the Greek economy by kicking the average Greek in the guts and still expect them to crawl their way outta the abyss but the fact remains that just maybe there is is/was another way to grow the economy and deal with the debt in a realistic manner... at least the IMF thinks so. It's not about just 2 billion its about a light at the end of the tunnel. Greece had a debt problem and the troika lent it even more to "help" it. This is the underlining fact and if you bothered to read what you quoted you'd realise that it was at Germanys insistence that the 'little people' get reamed first. The fact that you propose taking the extra humiliation out of the defence budget only means that the little people have no more to give.

If the Greeks don't want any credits from the dictatorial Germans then they need not apply for any. I can't ever recall anybody going to ask for a credit claiming that he/she spends more than he/she makes, is not sure if they can ever repay it but the only condition acceptable will be those that he/she dictates. The credit giver will rightfully answer that it is not the Salvation Army.

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Default is not the end game for the Greeks but merely a symptom of a badly managed bailout. The IMF was referring to the EU/ECB and the rest of the german bully gang that has conveniently forgotten that the biggest recipients of debt relief were the Germans themselves when Leguard called the belligerents children in a kindergarten.

The Germans after WW1 and WW2 absolutely not only bankrupted themselves and those they fought against but perpetrated unforgivable horrors on the continent that they wish to now leed. 100 million people died directly and indirectly from Germanys wars and STILL they received debt relief. Debt relief that the victorious allies didn't get. Debt that theoretically the Germans should still be paying off...

How easily we forget!

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If the Greeks don't want any credits from the dictatorial Germans then they need not apply for any. I can't ever recall anybody going to ask for a credit claiming that he/she spends more than he/she makes, is not sure if they can ever repay it but the only condition acceptable will be those that he/she dictates. The credit giver will rightfully answer that it is not the Salvation Army.

Maybe Merkel should not have played the role of Salvation Army chaplain back in 2009 and allowed the Greeks to default if that was her wish. She gave the Greeks the credit card. And now she's upset that after knocking the life outta Greece she won't get her money... I hope the Greeks default if only to burn that vindictive moron Merkel cause they can't possibly do any more damage to their economy.

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Maybe Merkel should not have played the role of Salvation Army chaplain back in 2009 and allowed the Greeks to default if that was her wish. She gave the Greeks the credit card. And now she's upset that after knocking the life outta Greece she won't get her money... I hope the Greeks default if only to burn that vindictive moron Merkel cause they can't possibly do any more damage to their economy.

Maybe, and now you are going to tell me that the Greeks would have been better off then they are now by letting their country slide into an almost bottomless recession, hyperinflation and no prospects of getting any better soon? Cause that will happen if they default (now and then)

I still live part time in Greece and 5 years ago I lived full time in Greece but I fail to see anybody at fault but the Greek governments themselves.

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Its funny how Germany controls the ECB, what treaty does that come under? none is the answer, but it doesn't stop Germany pulling the strings. What the ECB is asking Greece to do is the equivalent of a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.

The one size fits all euro currency interest rate is causing the problem, But they'll never alter that, and they'll never allow Greece to leave. Thats why any sane country would limit their exposure to the Eurozone. those that do will fare well when the house of cards come tumbling down.

Edited by stevewinn
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Its funny how Germany controls the ECB, what treaty does that come under? none is the answer, but it doesn't stop Germany pulling the strings. What the ECB is asking Greece to do is the equivalent of a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.

The one size fits all euro currency interest rate is causing the problem, But they'll never alter that, and they'll never allow Greece to leave. Thats why any sane country would limit their exposure to the Eurozone. those that do will farewell when the house of cards come tumbling down.

If Germany controlled the ECB it would not need to take the ECB to the European courts 'cause it did not like a few decisions now, would it?

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Its funny how Germany controls the ECB, what treaty does that come under? none is the answer, but it doesn't stop Germany pulling the strings. What the ECB is asking Greece to do is the equivalent of a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.

The one size fits all euro currency interest rate is causing the problem, But they'll never alter that, and they'll never allow Greece to leave. Thats why any sane country would limit their exposure to the Eurozone. those that do will fare well when the house of cards come tumbling down.

Germany has a prominent position in the EU because of its strong economy. Coincidentally, so does the UK. Are you complaining the UK "controls the ECB"? If the UK was pre-eminent in the EU would you complain?

Edited by Leonardo
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Germany has a prominent position in the EU because of its strong economy. Coincidentally, so does the UK. Are you complaining the UK "controls the ECB"? If the UK was pre-eminent in the EU would you complain?

When it comes to the Eurozone, the single currency. not one-single member of that club should be in a position of prominence, and that's the problem, The interest rate is set in favour of the German economy. Greece on the other hand has been sacrificed.

Germany is bankrolling the Euro currency, I bet the German tax payers are fed up bailing Greece out. the myth is no more, the ECB is Deutsche Bundasbank.

I cant complain about something we are not apart of. But in order to answer your question, I don't want the United Kingdom to be apart of any EU institution. regardless if our position was one of pre-eminence or not. Thank You.

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When it comes to the Eurozone, the single currency. not one-single member of that club should be in a position of prominence, and that's the problem, The interest rate is set in favour of the German economy. Greece on the other hand has been sacrificed.

Germany is bankrolling the Euro currency, I bet the German tax payers are fed up bailing Greece out. the myth is no more, the ECB is Deutsche Bundasbank.

I cant complain about something we are not apart of. But in order to answer your question, I don't want the United Kingdom to be apart of any EU institution. regardless if our position was one of pre-eminence or not. Thank You.

I guess you have been listening too much to a certain guy who, would Europe have a fact checker institution like the Washington Post, would be the undisputed champion of the 5 Pinocchios (otherwise known as Nigel Farage). In Germany one of the economic strongholds has been damaged by the "rates set to benefit Germany" which was always a reliable source for investment money: The saving accounts of the average citizen. As they are getting practically nothing they are spending their money left and right.

Those rates were set to increase the economic growth there where there was none: France, Spain, Italy, Austria. Germany had no growth problem due to the crisis, quite the contrary.

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I guess you have been listening too much to a certain guy who, would Europe have a fact checker institution like the Washington Post, would be the undisputed champion of the 5 Pinocchios (otherwise known as Nigel Farage). In Germany one of the economic strongholds has been damaged by the "rates set to benefit Germany" which was always a reliable source for investment money: The saving accounts of the average citizen. As they are getting practically nothing they are spending their money left and right.

Those rates were set to increase the economic growth there where there was none: France, Spain, Italy, Austria. Germany had no growth problem due to the crisis, quite the contrary.

What happens to Pinocchio in the end? Did he not come to life, fruition just like Farage's warnings.

Why is it every time there this a financial crisis in the EU they go to Germany, Greek politicians fly into Germany, bypassing the ECB in Frankfurt and head straight to Chancellor frau Merkel. Germany only agreed to lowering interest rates when Spanish economy got in trouble and the writing was on the wall - faced with that Germany was forced to make concessions or face the consequences. The fatherland/ECB could not afford to bailout the entire Spanish economy, so it was either adjust the interest rates and bailout Spain at a lower cost, (affordable) or let Spain go the same way as Greece. Which would have ended the Euro project.

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What happens to Pinocchio in the end? Did he not come to life, fruition just like Farage's warnings.

Why is it every time there this a financial crisis in the EU they go to Germany, Greek politicians fly into Germany, bypassing the ECB in Frankfurt and head straight to Chancellor frau Merkel. Germany only agreed to lowering interest rates when Spanish economy got in trouble and the writing was on the wall - faced with that Germany was forced to make concessions or face the consequences. The fatherland/ECB could not afford to bailout the entire Spanish economy, so it was either adjust the interest rates and bailout Spain at a lower cost, (affordable) or let Spain go the same way as Greece. Which would have ended the Euro project.

They can go to Germany as much as they want, Merkel told them that she cannot negotiate with them about any bailout, that has to be done by the interested parties.

But that is a good part of the Greek mentality, you don't talk directly to whomever you want something from you talk to somebody who has a friend in high positions and hope that he can influence the decision maker (another reason why the whole system is utterly corrupt).

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So greece could be bankrupt if it refuses a deal?

quite bankrupt in fact.

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So basically the EU is making them an offer they can't refuse.

Proof, then, that the EU is indeed run by the Mafia.

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Germany doesn't control the ECB, there is a new regulation so called banking union. The ECB is independent which means they have two bodies one consisting of monetary policy and one consisting of supervision, both are independent and private. There i is a separate recovery regulation in the EU which is controlled by the MS (mostly MS who have the Euro) it consist of a fund where every significant bank has to put a certain amount and if a bank fails this fund is used to bail them out or not, if a bank is bailed out or not is decided by the commission with recommendation of the ECB. But before the relevant banks get access to that fund the shareholders of the bank must bail in. This is new and the fund is available by 2016.

Anyway Greece should have left right at the beginning of the crisis and shouldn't have bailed out their banks like Iceland did. Now after 7 years the Greek people suffered the most they cut healthcare and education sold out land to foreign investors and mostly bailed out German investors. Greece`s credit rating reached the bottom, so no wonder Greece wants to leave since it would be the best option, but it is also is a bit too late. Germany profited the most form the EU because they are export oriented and the euro is valued lower then the Mark would have been so they have a big advantage on the export market, while Greece prices are too high and their economy suffered like Italy's and Spain. If they wouldn't have been part of the monetary union they could have used instruments to weaken the effect of the crises. So the EU should make a haircut in favor of Greece. If not I guess Greece leaves and if they do it might have big consequences for the EU.

Edit: But I don't know why Merkel has so much to say, she must have quiet a few leaders behind her otherwise it wouldn't be possible, right now the conflict is just between conservatives (Merkel) and Socialist (Greece), because as you can read in financial times Greece has a reform plan already but Merkel insists on cutting even more welfare. (Healthcare doesn't work in some parts of Greece already.)

Edited by hellwyr
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Edit: But I don't know why Merkel has so much to say, she must have quiet a few leaders behind her otherwise it wouldn't be possible, right now the conflict is just between conservatives (Merkel) and Socialist (Greece), because as you can read in financial times Greece has a reform plan already but Merkel insists on cutting even more welfare. (Healthcare doesn't work in some parts of Greece already.)

That is crap, they offered Greece the possibility to cut wherever they wanted, the only goal was to keep the budget below the income (that is: no more debt). Junker proposed cutting the defense budget (that would be between 1/6 and 1/5 of it), which makes sense as Greece has the biggest defense budget (per capita) in the Eu, instead of welfare. They also refuse.

What the Greek government wants is something with what they can stand on Syntagma Square and in front of rolling cameras tell their people that they have made the bad, evil and despicable oppressor back down. And the others are in no mood to get booed at at home.

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Seems the French have raised the white flag.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-33217910

Go Greece I say. What a spineless economic zone this is.

And he is right. People in Greece have withdrawn 2 billion euros over the past 3 days, because they fear that there will be more cuts to welfare. Greece is mostly in this situation because they are in the EU thus all countries in the EU who have the Euro must stand together. If they don`t want to commit to the community then they can as well dissolve the EU, it was an illusion to think the economy will always be good, if you look at history you will see financial collapses bankruptcies are common and if they can`t stand together in this crises then the project European Union has failed.

Edit: Also I pay taxes so there is a good education and healthcare system as well as a protection in case of hard times (social welfare) and I gladly pay taxes so someone else or myself can have a prosperous life, but if a government can`t guarantee that anymore the government has failed. And, of course the people in Greece who payed taxes all their life don`t understand why they should suffer even more while the reason for the whole economy crisis lies with the bankers and the governments who didn't use the tax-money in a responsible way.

Edited by hellwyr
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And he is right. People in Greece have withdrawn 2 billion euros over the past 3 days, because they fear that there will be more cuts to welfare. Greece is mostly in this situation because they are in the EU thus all countries in the EU who have the Euro must stand together. If they don`t want to commit to the community then they can as well dissolve the EU, it was an illusion to think the economy will always be good, if you look at history you will see financial collapses bankruptcies are common and if they can`t stand together in this crises then the project European Union has failed.

Edit: Also I pay taxes so there is a good education and healthcare system as well as a protection in case of hard times (social welfare) and I gladly pay taxes so someone else or myself can have a prosperous life, but if a government can`t guarantee that anymore the government has failed. And, of course the people in Greece who payed taxes all their life don`t understand why they should suffer even more while the reason for the whole economy crisis lies with the bankers and the governments who didn't use the tax-money in a responsible way.

Those five could easily be given welfare....

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Seems the French have raised the white flag.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-33217910

Go Greece I say. What a spineless economic zone this is.

Merkel says that in every microphone you put in front of her face... Hollande and Merkel's problem is that their parliaments are not buying.

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