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OverSword

Jordan Stands up to ISIS

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NewAge1

We don't really know if that's actually the real pilot, or some other victims they substitued to make it appear that they are executing him. ISIS may be desperate for more propaganda. So I will wait for more evidence but still, no one deserves that kind of faith.

Perhaps that will incite Jordan to do more than drop a bomb once in a while on ISIS and go back home. They have been provocated. Let's not act irrationally though. A military intervention is never without risks, even at safe distance in the air and the soldiers themselves are the first to admit it.

Edited by samus

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Careful_perspective

They have now burnt the Jordan pilot to death, in a cage

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31121160

Oh god, that is terrible. I truly hope wherever he is, he is at peace now.

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seeder

We don't really know if that's actually the real pilot,

What? Are you a conspiracy theorist or something? If youd read a few news sources you will see IS made their "best ever" movie, with aerial shots, multicamera shots, hollywood effects etc.... just to rub it in a bit more.

But having said that, its been alleged he died weeks before, as the amount of editing etc would have taken ages. Which means the hostage bargaining was just a tease

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Lilly

I think ISIS simply did exactly what was shown...they caged and burned alive the Jordanian pilot.

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NewAge1
What? Are you a conspiracy theorist or something? If youd read a few news sources you will see IS made their "best ever" movie, with aerial shots, multicamera shots, hollywood effects etc.... just to rub it in a bit more.

I meant that the footage remains to be authentificated. It's becoming clear that the pilot was dead for some time now. Perhaps he was gravely injured as a result of the aircraft incident so they had to be quick about it. I don't know. If you see the pictures of the DailyMail article when he was captured, he did not look very healthy

Now that's assuming that is it indeed this pilot we are seeing in this video. Nothing to do with with conspirationism, rather skepticism.

Edited by samus

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seeder

I meant that the footage remains to be authentificated. It's becoming clear that the pilot was dead for some time now. Perhaps he was gravely injured as a result of the aircraft incident so they had to be quick about it. I don't know. If you see the pictures of the DailyMail article when he was captured, he did not look very healthy

Now that's assuming that is it indeed this pilot we are seeing in this video. Nothing to do with with conspirationism, rather skepticism.

A news source I viewed had images. he was marched through an area, not bound or blindfolded, and full size cage was there, he 'looked well' under the horrifying circumstances.... for anyone who has seen those images, his identity perhaps is beyond doubt.

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Leonardo

You can't bring international law into these "negotiations" because ISIS isn't a recognised state or nation.

A group not being a recognised state or nation does not necessarily prohibit the application of International Law to any conflict. After the Balkans conflict, for example, prosecutions in the ICC were brought against combatants even though their actions were against people who, at the time, were not yet a "recognised State or nation".

Under the provisions of International Law, the conflict need only be between military authorities to qualify for the Law to apply. If the conflict was between a civilian (i.e. criminal) organisation and civilian authorities (i.e. a police force) then International Law would not apply.

Edited by Leonardo
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Lilly

The Jordanians appear to be very, very POed. There are currently angry displays in the streets of Jordan. The King is returning from meeting Obama...something will go down soon IMO.

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President Wearer of Hats

The Jordanians appear to be very, very POed. There are currently angry displays in the streets of Jordan. The King is returning from meeting Obama...something will go down soon IMO.

He's been meeting Obama?

Well you know that it's serious, he's obviously going to draw not one but TWO red lines in the sand.

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NewAge1
The Jordanians appear to be very, very POed. There are currently angry displays in the streets of Jordan. The King is returning from meeting Obama...something will go down soon IMO.

Nothing's going to happen with the US IMO. The coallition strategy is working quite well so far. ISIS's momentum has been blunted on all front. The Kurds and the Iraqi army now look much better and are able to push back ISIS fighters. I can't say for Jordan though, besides ''fast-tracking executions'' of detainees, the State may feel pressured by their own population to do something more. If they can step up their contribution in the fight against ISIS that would surely be appreciated by the Obama administration though.

Edited by samus

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Lilly

King Abdullah of Jordan calls for "retribution". The King says that Jordan will act swiftly and decisively.

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and then

King Abdullah of Jordan calls for "retribution". The King says that Jordan will act swiftly and decisively.

I truly hope that our president will be moved to help in a substantive way the Jordanian efforts. They will need $ and weapons and intel to do this job. If an Islamic nation will put troops into the fight then we should provide them everything they need.
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Lilly

King Abdullah strikes me as a man with the courage of his convictions. He has openly stated that fighting ISIS and Al Qaeda is actually defending Islam. He believes this to be true and will act accordingly. IMO ISIS has made a fatal error with the burning of the Jordanian pilot.

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TheDarkerSide

As terrible as this situation is. I do hope that the death of the Jordanian pilot will be the turning point. There have been more than enough of these atrocities now, to wake the powers in charge into doing something more constructive in ridding the world of these scum.

Enough is enough.

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Sir Smoke aLot

As terrible as this situation is. I do hope that the death of the Jordanian pilot will be the turning point. There have been more than enough of these atrocities now, to wake the powers in charge into doing something more constructive in ridding the world of these scum.

Enough is enough.

When isis started taking land they already have taken sex slaves and displaced a lot of population in Iraq while destroying some of most valued holy sites too. So, many communities destroyed, some people did run off to mountains... ... That was more then enough. First month.

All that happens now is just a product of not taking actions before - it was better to spam media about 'islamic state or caliphate', mad muslim warriors, etc. Now majority knows that this scumbags don't have nothing to do with religion but damage which has been done can't be fixed and suffering left marks on millions of people, especially in Syria where isis was directly supported by Assad opponents.

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and then

When isis started taking land they already have taken sex slaves and displaced a lot of population in Iraq while destroying some of most valued holy sites too. So, many communities destroyed, some people did run off to mountains... ... That was more then enough. First month.

All that happens now is just a product of not taking actions before - it was better to spam media about 'islamic state or caliphate', mad muslim warriors, etc. Now majority knows that this scumbags don't have nothing to do with religion but damage which has been done can't be fixed and suffering left marks on millions of people, especially in Syria where isis was directly supported by Assad opponents.

All the more reason to do something NOW. Hopefully Jordan will be the first Muslim army to actually stand against these scum.
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NewAge1
All the more reason to do something NOW. Hopefully Jordan will be the first Muslim army to actually stand against these scum.

The Jordanians are a divided society. One on side you have the citizens who fully support the King and hate ISIS, on the other hand you have the Sunnis muslims who don't necesserely perceived the Islamic State as a threat and support anyone who can fight Assad. There is actually more than 2000 jordanians within ISIS's ranks. There is a fracture in Jordan, though one side is now more vocal than the other after the pilot's horrible death and King Abdullah II knows it. That's why their positions have always been nuanced, Jordan never positioned itself completely against Assad as they still have diplomatic ties, and their role has been very limited so far in the US-led coallition.

''Yet what is just as striking about this diplomatic rift is that it highlights the degree of diplomatic continuity between Jordan and Syria. Throughout the Syrian civil war, and despite all the issues and concerns noted above, Jordan and Syria have maintained diplomatic relations.

[...]

Jordan remains in a hazardous position between dramatically different pressures: from Syria to stay out of Syrian affairs, and from its allies -- the US, Saudi Arabia, and others -- to do more to aid efforts in support of the opposition. The SNC, for example, no doubt hoped that Jordan would break relations with Syria and turn the embassy over to the opposition. So far, that hasn’t happened. If it were to occur, it would count as a game changer. For the moment at least, Jordan is not willing to take this risk.

Source: http://www.merip.org...en-jordan-syria

Edited by samus

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seeder

King Abdullah strikes me as a man with the courage of his convictions. He has openly stated that fighting ISIS and Al Qaeda is actually defending Islam. He believes this to be true and will act accordingly. IMO ISIS has made a fatal error with the burning of the Jordanian pilot.

yes Ive had my nose in a few news sources and Jordan is very angry, baying for blood, I dont know what they are planning but they are saying it will be a ground shaking response. I just hope whatever their response, that it will be highly effective. But as Ive said before, they need boots on the ground. ISIS have been severely degraded over the months with the coalition bombing - I read that at least half of its top commanders have been killed, along with much hardware and countless 'troops' so now would be a great to time for a definitive strike

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seeder
'I'm going to kill his wife and all his friends and burn his damn house down': King of Jordan quotes Clint Eastwood as he tells Congressmen of his plans for pilot's killers

Jordan's King Abdullah II quoted film character saying 'I'm not only going to kill him, I'm going to kill his wife and all his friends and burn his damn house down'

Abdullah told members of Congress how his only problem would be running out of fuel and bullets

'He said there is going to be retribution like ISIS hasn't seen,' one congressman said

'The king feels that the gloves are off and that it now is time if you can't negotiate with these people, you're going to have to take it to them, and I think it's going to be more than Jordan.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2938668/Jordanian-king-Obama-meet-pilots-killing.html#ixzz3Qnk4rUzm

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NewAge1

Abdhulla II seems to be talking a lot, now it remain to be seen if that will result in concrete actions. Executing two Al-Quaida prisoners (not even of ISIS) does not change a damn thing to the situation in Iraq and Syria.

Edited by samus

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and then

Abdhulla II seems to be talking a lot, now it remain to be seen if that will result in concrete actions. Executing two Al-Quaida prisoners (not even of ISIS) does not change a damn thing to the situation in Iraq and Syria.

He seems to be saying what his people want to hear. In case you hadn't noticed - Muslims are p***ED about this killing.
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seeder

This shows the strength of the feeling

Jordanian king vows 'relentless' war on Islamic State's own ground

"All the state's military and security agencies are developing their options. Jordan's response will be heard by the world at large but this response on the security and military level will be announced at the appropriate time," Momani said

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/02/04/uk-mideast-crisis-killing-idUKKBN0L71Y720150204

On IS own ground? Boots on ground perhaps? I think is going to perhaps be a defining moment for the war on IS

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and then

This shows the strength of the feeling

On IS own ground? Boots on ground perhaps? I think is going to perhaps be a defining moment for the war on IS

And I think the US should put men there to support them. If this war has a Muslim face attached as the enemy of ISIS then the US can go all out to help.

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NewAge1
On IS own ground? Boots on ground perhaps? I think is going to perhaps be a defining moment for the war on IS

''In their own ground'' could also mean more airstrikes.

That bit is also interesting:

''Syria urged Jordan to work with it to fight Islamic State and al Qaeda's Syria wing, condemning what it described as the "heinous" killing of a Jordanian pilot by militants, Syria's state news agency SANA said on Wednesday.

''The Syrian foreign ministry called on Jordan, which is part of a U.S.-led aerial campaign against Islamic State, "to cooperate in the fight against terrorism represented by the organisation Daesh and Nusra Front ... and other terrorist organisations associated with them in Syria and the region."

Source: http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/02/04/Syria-to-Jordan-Help-us-fight-ISIS-and-al-Qaeda.html

In Syria, ISIS operates virtually unhindered, especially in the north province of Raqqa. Jordan's help could really help the Syrian army to take back these territories.

Edited by samus

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