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RavenHawk

This is my rifle

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joc

Are you a Marine RavenHawk?

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RavenHawk

Are you a Marine RavenHawk?

I guess you’d like something more than a yes or no? It depends on your point of view. I was a Marine and so there’s the saying, once a Marine always a Marine. And I suppose there is truth in that. I spent a very short tour with the last few years in the Reserve. I have never seen combat so I can’t say that I’m a real Marine. It was never a career to me, just service to my country. I mustered out with an honorable discharge about 3 months before Desert-Shield. That is perhaps the greatest regret I will take to my grave. The minute I heard that my unit was mobilized, I should have gone back but I didn’t. My younger brother and many friends saw plenty of action and I know what they went through (in some cases, I see it daily) so I can say that I understand better than most.

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RavenHawk

So what was Obama to do ?

Act like a President that believes in American Hegemony.

Turn the Embassy into an armed camp ? Prepare for a seige ?

I seem to recall that the LAST time they tried that in the face of a Shia uprising,it didn't work out too well. Remember Iran ?

No, the last time was Benghazi. Unarmed Marines are a ripe target. What ISIS or al Qaeda warrior wouldn’t want to bloody their knife on a Marine throat? As I mentioned before, we got lucky that it wasn’t another Goliad or Malmedy.

We could still evacuate without appearing to be cowards. Image can be everything to hold the line.

The embassy is 200 miles from the coast. It's not very big. I couldn't be maintained by helicopter food/equipment drops because... there are no US air bases in the region, and the carriers are too far away, and would take too long to arrive. And THEN... those helicopters would be illegally invading Yemenese airspace, and could be (legally) fired on at will.

Sea Stallions and Blackhawks could easily make it in just over an hour once it gets to the coast and then mid-air refueling over water. It looks like the Carl Vinson is in the Persian Gulf region and elements of the 11th MEU are supporting operations in Syria and Iraq (from Kuwait and Bahrain). Marines are meant to hold out against all odds for however long it takes. Trust that training.

There are probably regular helicopter flights from somewhere to the Embassy anyway. At least one could land and take off the Ambassador, VIP staff, weapons, and other vital items. Then the rest could go to the airport. But if they had time to destroy their weapons, there was enough time pull out everyone quickly by helicopter. The government of Yemen has collapsed so there is nothing protecting airspace. It would just be us. But radar and command & control could easily be taken out by harriers and blackhawks. The Yemeni air force would be able to put up almost 100 migs of various types and many of those won’t leave the ground as most pilots wouldn’t go up. If they do, they’d probably seek asylum someplace else to escape. In other words, the collapse of the government had effectively crippled military effectiveness. We could have gone in and left before anybody knew we were there. We didn’t because we lacked leadership at the very top.

"This is my rifle..."

Oh really ? Jolly nice. Now HERE are the WW2-era artillary canons that the Shia rebells have just moved into range of the embassy buildings. The embassy would be a pile of burning rubble within a day. What could the marine guard do about it ? Nothing !

When the Allies bombed Monte Casino, the rubble offered a better defensive position. The Marines would put up one Hell of a fight. That’s why they are there. They aren’t part of the façade. They are a representative of our nation’s forces. They will fight if you let them. There are just some situations that requires machismo.

Well, of course, America COULD do something; it could mount a fully-fledged invasion from its carriers. Except... how many troops does a carrier carry ? A few hundred ? What about tanks and APC's ? They come on seperate ships, which are NOT in the area.It would take a week or so to assemble the forces for an illegal invasion that would have to penetrate 200 miles to reach the embassy, secure the area, and then pull out again.

You wouldn’t need a full-fledged invasion. If done right, it would be a quick in and out. You contact what’s left of the Yemeni military. Don’t ask permission. Don’t apologize. Just let them know that we are coming for our people. Any interference will be met sternly.

Obama - and the Ambassadorial staff - did the only sensible (and legal) thing. Once those marines left the embassy compound, they became illegal immigrants, without any license to carry guns. The newspaper headlines where - in my opinion - outrageously foolish, and entirely unfair to Obama.

No, Obama didn’t do the only sensible thing. He allowed panic to rein and left that staff out to dry. The enemy knows this now and the next time we are going to have people taken captive. I was just recently looking at Ain al-Asad and saw several harriers, blackhawks, and 130s showing indications of Marines. Will this be the next target?

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ellapenella

I was reading on a thread that varelse posted , where he asked about political agendas. The articel I first posted here clicked to me about something in his last post when he mentioned about fact and checking them.Even so I thought that even if they are checked and rechecked if an agenda is just that it's really not good not matter. It reminded me of a lot of what this Obama administration have been doing to our soldiers.

This is a piece of the article that was written in responce to a person that wrote a dishonorable article of the American sniper. The artice is in post #53 here.

"Our military dislikes politics because the final outcome rest solely on political backing, rather than with the troops on the ground. Let me break it down Barney style for you, Laura. Imagine playing football with the NFL and winning every game up until you reach the Superbowl. Then, at that final moment,when it looks like all you need to do is hold out your defense a little bit longer, your team owner says “Screw this, lets go home”. That, Laura, is why we hate politics. "

Edited by Ellapennella

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ellapenella

RavenHawk

You should think of writing in your spare time. You have so much passion in what you know. A lot of those articles remined me of how you express yourself here at times.

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joc

I guess you'd like something more than a yes or no? It depends on your point of view. I was a Marine and so there's the saying, once a Marine always a Marine. And I suppose there is truth in that. I spent a very short tour with the last few years in the Reserve. I have never seen combat so I can't say that I'm a real Marine. It was never a career to me, just service to my country. I mustered out with an honorable discharge about 3 months before Desert-Shield. That is perhaps the greatest regret I will take to my grave. The minute I heard that my unit was mobilized, I should have gone back but I didn't. My younger brother and many friends saw plenty of action and I know what they went through (in some cases, I see it daily) so I can say that I understand better than most.

Okay..you were a Marine...and yeah...I go by that..once a Marine always a Marine...because you cannot erase being a Marine...its ingrained in your soul. But the reason I was asking is cause I figured you were. I was a Corpsman (not a CorpseMan) in the late 70s. :tu:

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ellapenella

Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya, August 7, 1998: The bombings of these two embassies brought the name "Osama Bin Laden" to Americans' lips for the first time. The bombings resulted in over 4,000 people injured and 223 dead. The bombings are believed to have been a retaliatory move for the arrest and torture of four members of the Al-Qaeda affiliate, The Egyptian Islamist Jihad.

http://www.ibtimes.com/us-embassy-attacks-and-bombings-recent-history-782665

http://nypost.com/2015/02/26/bin-laden-aide-found-guilty-in-98-us-embassy-bombings/

Edited by Ellapennella

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RoofGardener

I guess you'd like something more than a yes or no? It depends on your point of view. I was a Marine and so there's the saying, once a Marine always a Marine. And I suppose there is truth in that.

I'm not a Marine, and never was. I've never served in the UK armed services. So I have to be kinda careful if I contradict you on this. But Ravenhawk.... for all your enthusiasm for Black Hawks, Marines, and Special Forces, could I remind you about the American experience in another country - not too distant from Yemen ?

They had Black Hawks, and Delta, and US Army Rangers, and all sorts in Mogadishu, Somali.

It didn't turn out as well as they hoped. And THAT was with the benefit of local airports and US Military garrisons. (e.g. short supply/logistics chains).

A short-notice incursion into Yemen would be far harder.

Edited by RoofGardener

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and then

I'm not a Marine, and never was. I've never served in the UK armed services. So I have to be kinda careful if I contradict you on this. But Ravenhawk.... for all your enthusiasm for Black Hawks, Marines, and Special Forces, could I remind you about the American experience in another country - not too distant from Yemen ?

They had Black Hawks, and Delta, and US Army Rangers, and all sorts in Mogadishu, Somali.

It didn't turn out as well as they hoped. And THAT was with the benefit of local airports and US Military garrisons. (e.g. short supply/logistics chains).

A short-notice incursion into Yemen would be far harder.

I always thought they needed a few flamethrowers...
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Gromdor

Nothing sends a message better than burning people alive. With a flamethrower at least you don't have to go through the effort of capturing them and putting them in a cage.

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joc

I'm not a Marine, and never was. I've never served in the UK armed services. So I have to be kinda careful if I contradict you on this. But Ravenhawk.... for all your enthusiasm for Black Hawks, Marines, and Special Forces, could I remind you about the American experience in another country - not too distant from Yemen ?

They had Black Hawks, and Delta, and US Army Rangers, and all sorts in Mogadishu, Somali.

It didn't turn out as well as they hoped. And THAT was with the benefit of local airports and US Military garrisons. (e.g. short supply/logistics chains).

A short-notice incursion into Yemen would be far harder.

And may I remind you that the same President that Commander in Chiefed that debaucle, kept Yassir Arrafat and other world leaders waiting while he played hide the cigar with Monica? mmm hmmm...nuff said...mmm hmmm

Edited by joc
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Varelse

"I love the smell of napalm in the morning. Smells like...VICTORY"

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RoofGardener

And may I remind you that the same President that Commander in Chiefed that debaucle, kept Yassir Arrafat and other world leaders waiting while he played hide the cigar with Monica? mmm hmmm...nuff said...mmm hmmm

Weeeell.... the intital deployment was authorised by George Bush. Clinton only entered office in late January of 1993 (the battle took place on 12th July 1993, just 6 months into Clintons presidency). It seems a trifle harsh to blame him for the subsequent events ?

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ellapenella

"I love the smell of napalm in the morning. Smells like...VICTORY"

"Some day this war is gonna end "

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ellapenella

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ellapenella

Edited by Ellapennella

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ellapenella

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Thanato

There is such a thing as using force to evacuate people. In my country we call it NEO, non-combatant evacuation operation. An infantry company goes in, secures an area and we start evacing our citizens out.

They don't need permission to go in, because if they have to go there is no one to get permission from.

Edited by Thanato
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joc

Weeeell.... the intital deployment was authorised by George Bush. Clinton only entered office in late January of 1993 (the battle took place on 12th July 1993, just 6 months into Clintons presidency). It seems a trifle harsh to blame him for the subsequent events ?

Good God Man...would you please stop blaming George W Bush for everything. Clinton was president...it happened on his watch...he was the Commander in Chief...he was more concerned with getting his cohorts in the White House that actually being President...a man who never wore any Uniform. Bush wore a Uniform...he was a pilot in the Coast Guard. The only thing Clinton ever piloted was a cigar...and we know that story well don't we. That happened on his watch. Bush was no where near that debaucle. Sorry dude...that dog doesn't hunt!

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and then

Good God Man...would you please stop blaming George W Bush for everything. Clinton was president...it happened on his watch...he was the Commander in Chief...he was more concerned with getting his cohorts in the White House that actually being President...a man who never wore any Uniform. Bush wore a Uniform...he was a pilot in the Coast Guard. The only thing Clinton ever piloted was a cigar...and we know that story well don't we. That happened on his watch. Bush was no where near that debaucle. Sorry dude...that dog doesn't hunt!

As I recall, the mission that began under Bush was truly a humanitarian attempt to feed the starving. Clinton decided to creep the mission to get rid of Aidid and all hell broke loose. Had he given the guys proper armor they could have executed without few to NO casualties. A buddy of mine from HS JROTC lost a brother there. He was one of the Rangers who were killed.
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ellapenella

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RoofGardener

There is such a thing as using force to evacuate people. In my country we call it NEO, non-combatant evacuation operation. An infantry company goes in, secures an area and we start evacing our citizens out.

They don't need permission to go in, because if they have to go there is no one to get permission from.

Truly ?

Could you give me some examples of when this has worked ?

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