stevewinn Posted February 21, 2015 #51 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Report: If people think the EU - Ukrainian crisis happened overnight think again. Ukraine is vital for the Eastern Partnership. with the EU looking at a narrative and not the whole story it completely misread the whole situation which as led to this catastrophe. House of Lords Foreign Affairs committee findings. The EU before and beyond the crisis in Ukraine. The UK and the EU have been accused of a "catastrophic misreading" of the mood in the Kremlin in the run-up to the crisis in Ukraine. The House of Lords EU committee claimed Europe "sleepwalked" into the crisis. The EU had not realised the depth of Russian hostility to its plans for closer relations with Ukraine, it said. Full report http://www.publicati...com/115/115.pdf Older material from 2008 to 2014. highlighting the lunacy of the policy. http://www.economist...st-against-west http://europa.eu/rap...n.htm?locale=en http://europa.eu/rap...-09-1891_en.htm http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/8035710.stm http://eeas.europa.e...ademecum_en.pdf https://euobserver.com/foreign/27827 FEBRUARY 2015 A briefing by General Sir Adrian Bradshaw KCB OBE, Deputy Supreme Allied Commander Europe, set against the backdrop of the latest security challenges facing NATO and how this will impact upon UK priorities and commitments. Edited February 21, 2015 by stevewinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarPlexus Posted February 21, 2015 #52 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Pfff this latest ceasefire is a farce. Its just to buy time for NATO mercenaries and Ukrainian fascists , so they could retreat from Debeltcevo (or however its called). Its funny how Europe wants to talk peace now, when their forces got surrounded ahahah 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanato Posted February 21, 2015 #53 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Pfff this latest ceasefire is a farce. Its just to buy time for NATO mercenaries and Ukrainian fascists , so they could retreat from Debeltcevo (or however its called). Its funny how Europe wants to talk peace now, when their forces got surrounded ahahah It was a small number and those troops whereby encircled, but in a pocket. They where withdrawn after it was proven the rebels where not going to honour the ceasefire in that area. It also made tactical and strategic sense to withdraw those forces. Especially since they are facing Russian regular and irregular troops along with rebels. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted February 22, 2015 #54 Share Posted February 22, 2015 NATO commanders and advisers in Ukraine outfoxed by Russian Commanders. It doesn't bode well, Ukraine as a standing army of 242,000 troops its made no difference. Lets not beat around the bush, the Ukrainian military is in headlong retreat. I wouldnt be surprised if Russia didn't push right upto the Dnieper River which runs right through the middle of the country and acts as a natural boundary. It must be tempting option in the Kremlin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarPlexus Posted February 22, 2015 #55 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Good point and there is no doubt they could have done that easily... but Russia isn't Imperialist. Its something NATO would do. Russia is still on the defensive overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikolaj Posted February 22, 2015 #56 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Russia isnt imperialist! Who took Crimea? NATO? and ....its time for you that you.......! Brm brm brrrrmmmmm Edited February 22, 2015 by Mikolaj 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odas Posted February 22, 2015 #57 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Russia isnt imperialist! Who took Crimea? NATO? and ....its time for you that you.......! Brm brm brrrrmmmmm Naughty naughty. Where dou you find all those emocs? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikolaj Posted February 23, 2015 #58 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Naughty naughty. Where dou you find all those emocs? Expirience. Well I was a member of: Politics forum History forum Linguistics forum Economics forum And Im still member at one forum about science. On some general forums I was member for decade or so. Arent they neat? Edited February 23, 2015 by Mikolaj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.United_Nations Posted February 24, 2015 #59 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Good point and there is no doubt they could have done that easily... but Russia isn't Imperialist. Its something NATO would do. Russia is still on the defensive overall. what was the Soviet Union doing in Afghanistan? Georgia? Crimea? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOMBIE Posted February 24, 2015 #60 Share Posted February 24, 2015 what was the Soviet Union doing in Afghanistan? Georgia? Crimea? Securing their borders. Just as Russia does in the Ukraine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Border Collie Posted February 24, 2015 #61 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Good point and there is no doubt they could have done that easily... but Russia isn't Imperialist. Its something NATO would do. Russia is still on the defensive overall. Russia isn't imperialist!? You haven't read any Russian history at all, have you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted February 24, 2015 #62 Share Posted February 24, 2015 what was the Soviet Union doing in Afghanistan? Georgia? Crimea? increasing their interests, including spreading of their political system - communism. much like the West has done in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria. just replace the word communism with democracy, yet both are political policy governance tools. Its easy to be critical of Russia but hard to be critical of Russian actions without mentioning the numerous similarities littered through the last decade in regard to Western foreign policy. What one can point to in Ukraine with Russia, one can point to with the West in a number of conflicts in the countries mentioned above. Its double standards. But that's what we do best in the West, we gloss over the inconvenient truths. lost the ability to be self-critical. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odas Posted February 24, 2015 #63 Share Posted February 24, 2015 increasing their interests, including spreading of their political system - communism. much like the West has done in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria. just replace the word communism with democracy, yet both are political policy governance tools. Its easy to be critical of Russia but hard to be critical of Russian actions without mentioning the numerous similarities littered through the last decade in regard to Western foreign policy. What one can point to in Ukraine with Russia, one can point to with the West in a number of conflicts in the countries mentioned above. Its double standards. But that's what we do best in the West, we gloss over the inconvenient truths. lost the ability to be self-critical. What is happening with you recently? I like the "NEW STEVE". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickian Posted February 24, 2015 #64 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Interestingly enough, that has also happened to Russia. Before Euromaidan, Crimea and the civil war, Ukraine was firmly within the Russian sphere and more or less content with it. Ukraine depended on Russia for a majority of its exports and the government had good relations with Moscow. Now look at what's happened. Thanks to Putin's deal with Yanukovych, the annexation of Crimea and support for pro-Russian rebels, not only has the government become anti-Russian, it's turned the majority of public opinion against Russia. Moscow has lost a good ally in the region. Belarus, one of Russia's most staunch supporters, has even criticized the Russian government over Crimea and spoken out against Russian meddling in domestic affairs. Global opinion against Russia has nosedived, with public opinion of Russia in places like Venezuela overwhelmingly negative. And Venezuela is also a firm Russian ally. Ukraine has been a public relations disaster for Russia. Ultimately it's cost Moscow more than it gained. In some ways you're right, but Russia really had no choice but to act the way it has. To just let the West walk in and take Ukraine in a destabilizing snatch-and-grab was out of the question. Even if it cost them economically and hurt their reputation in some ways, they're still sending strong messages of what they will and will not allow to happen in their back yard. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Br Cornelius Posted February 25, 2015 #65 Share Posted February 25, 2015 NATO have been ultra hawkish and expansionist against Russia for decades at this stage, they broke just about every treaty they signed with the Russians. Its a line in the sand time, but NATO is all bark over this and will not follow through (especially since they have absolutely no mandate to get involved). NATO is playing to a different audience, looking to the next decade of investment cycles where all perceived threats are useful pawns in striking it big. Expect to see the Ukraine divided and years spent trying to repair the damage to EU Russian relations. Ultimately you cannot **** on the country which keeps you warm all winter and the EU knows this basic fact. Br Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babe Ruth Posted February 25, 2015 #66 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Well, that's one take on it. Another is that when Inhofe was presented with the images (purportedly by Ukraine parliament staff), he was told they were recent, and he was fooled by those that gave him the images. And it wasn't till after the fact that his office found out how old the images were. In which case he was duped, not war-mongering. Yes that is true, Inhofe was duped by his staff. And he is to be commended for coming clean at a later date. But a separate but related issue is that some measure of war-mongering fever afflicts the US Congress, so maybe Inhofe was just swept up in the moment. Is his staff effected by this war talk in Ukraine? Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleplen Posted February 26, 2015 #67 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Yes that is true, Inhofe was duped by his staff. And he is to be commended for coming clean at a later date. But a separate but related issue is that some measure of war-mongering fever afflicts the US Congress, so maybe Inhofe was just swept up in the moment. Is his staff effected by this war talk in Ukraine? Probably. Cheating??? Are you kidding? Ukraine has created the Ministry of deception, and all this only in order to bomb with impunity Donbass. I live in Lugansk, and see what's going on here, who and when bombed. Now a truce, and it is a merit of Russia. Ukraine hopes for the supply of lethal weapons from America. If Ukraine will get this weapon you will cross the river Rubicon, and it will be a different war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleplen Posted February 27, 2015 #68 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Many times, talked to us - LEARN ENGLISH!!! But were right in the USSR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.United_Nations Posted February 27, 2015 #69 Share Posted February 27, 2015 We can't understand Russian or Ukranian, no point spamming videos where we can't understand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellapenella Posted February 27, 2015 #70 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Cheating??? Are you kidding? Ukraine has created the Ministry of deception, and all this only in order to bomb with impunity Donbass. I live in Lugansk, and see what's going on here, who and when bombed. Now a truce, and it is a merit of Russia. Ukraine hopes for the supply of lethal weapons from America. If Ukraine will get this weapon you will cross the river Rubicon, and it will be a different war. Interesting...I heard something about that ,about everything you're saying . I don't know who or what to believe , because they all lie. You're in Russia ? Edited February 27, 2015 by Ellapennella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellapenella Posted February 27, 2015 #71 Share Posted February 27, 2015 @sleplen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGPD0ZBiMs0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted February 27, 2015 #72 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Well for all those hardy Repubs and Dems who don't want us meddling abroad -GOOD NEWS! ... pretty soon we'll be up to our ass in Islamic extremist attacks right here at home. Choice! Now we don't have to travel to other countries! What does this have to do with that? So you think that US politicians should get US troops involved in Ukraine too? You've already been asked to explain what you want the US to do, so please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MordorOrc Posted February 28, 2015 #73 Share Posted February 28, 2015 NATO have been ultra hawkish and expansionist against Russia for decades at this stage, they broke just about every treaty they signed with the Russians. Not really. Those countries in Eastern Europe joined NATO out of a mutual fear and suspicion of Russia. And given recent events in Ukraine, they have good reason to be fearful and suspicious. NATO provided these countries with the ability to be able to defend themselves or seek protection if they cannot, like the Baltic states. NATO's expansion into Eastern Europe is not a product of some sort of nefarious Western plot against Russia but historical mistrust and resentment of Russia by the local population. Expect to see the Ukraine divided and years spent trying to repair the damage to EU Russian relations. Ultimately you cannot **** on the country which keeps you warm all winter and the EU knows this basic fact.Br Cornelius You (wrongly) assume all of the EU is dependent on Russian gas. This is not true. For the most part, there are no countries west of Germany that import Russian gas let alone rely on it and those that do keep up with payments, not to mention that there are projects in place to reduce Eastern European dependence on Russian gas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellapenella Posted February 28, 2015 #74 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) @ Sleplen I feel sick about that. War hurts everyone. I wouldn't know how to imagine that happening in my own town. I'm so sorry for you all, I hope peace comes .Be safe. Edited February 28, 2015 by Ellapennella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellapenella Posted March 2, 2015 #75 Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) @Sleplen If I were to try to describe it I would say war must look like that . Even so , I still can not understand why unarmed innocent civilians were fired upon and killed like that by soldiers in their community .Why were those soldiers in the community?That appeared to be odd . Who were the soldiers on foot ?were they rebels? You said they were Ukraine? Edited March 2, 2015 by Ellapennella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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