Eastern Ukraine Ceasefire

[Helen of Annoy]

Elena annoying And what for you is to prove that I am in Lugansk? Excuse me, but I doubt that you are from Croatia. What are we going to do with this?

I don't know what you will do with that, but I’ll admit fair and square I post from White House basement.

Obama was down here just moments ago, he comes to smoke in the boiler room.

It wouldn't matter where you are, you amateur, if you were not fishing for sympathies on account of your location and if you were not busted so easily.

[sleplen]

Elena annoying, I'm glad that you often think of Obama. My Internet Ukrtelecom, which is owned by Akhmetov, and electricity gave me last September. It is commendable that you think if I Lugansk, it arouses sympathy or compassion. But if you are with Croatia it is the same pathetic. From now on, Elena, write on the topic,otherwise I will be forced to ignore your messages.

[Guest Br Cornelius]

Germany not buying the NATO warmongering:

It was quiet in eastern Ukraine last Wednesday. Indeed, it was another quiet day in an extended stretch of relative calm. The battles between the Ukrainian army and the pro-Russian separatists had largely stopped and heavy weaponry was being withdrawn. The Minsk cease-fire wasn't holding perfectly, but it was holding.

On that same day, General Philip Breedlove, the top NATO commander in Europe, stepped before the press in Washington. Putin, the 59-year-old said, had once again "upped the ante" in eastern Ukraine -- with "well over a thousand combat vehicles, Russian combat forces, some of their most sophisticated air defense, battalions of artillery" having been sent to the Donbass. "What is clear," Breedlove said, "is that right now, it is not getting better. It is getting worse every day."

German leaders in Berlin were stunned. They didn't understand what Breedlove was talking about. And it wasn't the first time. Once again, the German government, supported by intelligence gathered by the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), Germany's foreign intelligence agency, did not share the view of NATO's Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR).

.....

The German government is alarmed. Are the Americans trying to thwart European efforts at mediation led by Chancellor Angela Merkel? Sources in the Chancellery have referred to Breedlove's comments as "dangerous propaganda." Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier even found it necessary recently to bring up Breedlove's comments with NATO General Secretary Jens Stoltenberg.

........

But it is the tone of Breedlove's announcements that makes Berlin uneasy. False claims and exaggerated accounts, warned a top German official during a recent meeting on Ukraine, have put NATO -- and by extension, the entire West -- in danger of losing its credibility.

.........

But there are many at NATO headquarters in Brussels who are likewise concerned about Breedlove's statements. On Tuesday of last week, Breedlove's public appearances were an official item on the agenda of the North Atlantic Council's weekly lunch meeting. Several ambassadors present criticized Breedlove and expressed their incredulity at some of the commander's statements.

http://www.spiegel.d...-a-1022193.html

Its increasingly becoming clear that America and NATO are talking this up to justify a more aggressive stance against Russia. Its seems that lies delivered by top Generals is the preferred methodology since the Intelligence services are becoming wary of becoming Washingtons Patsy again.

So what are the real strategic objectives going on here, I think I know.

A good war is always considered a bulwark against a crippled economy.

Br Cornelius

Edited March 9, 2015 by Br Cornelius

[bmk1245]

Wasn't W. Churchill "warmongering" in pre-WWII years?

[Guest Br Cornelius]

Wasn't W. Churchill "warmongering" in pre-WWII years?

It really depends on whether you believe that Putin is set on European domination. There seems to be zero evidence that he is.

Br Cornelius

[bmk1245]

It really depends on whether you believe that Putin is set on European domination. There seems to be zero evidence that he is.

Br Cornelius

Au contraire, rhetorics of Kremlin controlled media sources, vocal opinions of some politicians say otherwise.

How would you explain inviting (and paying for) Russian 15-18 year old kids from Baltic states to militarized summer camps (sponsored by Ministry of Defence of Russia), teaching them modern warfare (including use of real guns), teaching about "fascist EU/US", and "glorious" past of Russia (and USSR)? That is a clear preparation for possible "polite green men" scenario in Baltic states.

[Guest Br Cornelius]

Au contraire, rhetorics of Kremlin controlled media sources, vocal opinions of some politicians say otherwise.

How would you explain inviting (and paying for) Russian 15-18 year old kids from Baltic states to militarized summer camps (sponsored by Ministry of Defence of Russia), teaching them modern warfare (including use of real guns), teaching about "fascist EU/US", and "glorious" past of Russia (and USSR)? That is a clear preparation for possible "polite green men" scenario in Baltic states.

I think the mercenary and criminal way that Russia was handled by the west after the fall of the USSR would lead any country to prepare for aggressive acts from NATO. The EU/NATO/US has shown its willingness to impose regime change upon Russia's allies (Ukraine) so I think the concern is more than justified.

However when both sides are indulging in massive hyperbole and state propaganda it becomes all but impossible for the average citizen to understand what is really going on. Neither side in this cold war conflict can be trusted to speak a single word of truth so your guess is as good as mine as to the future.

Br Cornelius

Edited March 9, 2015 by Br Cornelius

[Thanato]

I am seeing indiscriminate shelling from both sides. I am also seeing one side that indiscriminately shot down air craft, including a Civilian Air Liner (Hint, this wasn't the Kiev Government).

There will be criminal investigations after this conflict is over, and in time the known ties and logistical and combat support from Russia will be proven true to be in the East of the Ukraine.

It is going to take a long time for the scars of this regional conflict (as it involves a neighboring nation covertly) to heal.

[Mr.United_Nations]

Going back to Crimea for the momment, it appears those first "green men" that appeared overnight was indeed Russian special forces. Putin had a meeting the same night the previous President was ousted and had a plan to rescue him

[aztek]

? How can not Nazi power to give orders to shoot civilians .......

you mean like putin ordered bombing of chenya, and killed tens of thousands civilians, (what about blown up buildings in russia and fsb agents cought planting a bomb in one) you did hear him say on tv, they would use women and children as live sheild, didn't you, because the rest of the world heard that loud and clear.

it is you who shoots russian supplied grads from residential areas, than leave, so ukraninan army shoots back, and hits civilians. and you call ukranian gvmnt fashist? have you eatten enough crap fed by kiselev tv yet?

Edited March 9, 2015 by aztek

[sleplen]

you mean like putin ordered bombing of chenya, and killed tens of thousands civilians, (what about blown up buildings in russia and fsb agents cought planting a bomb in one) you did hear him say on tv, they would use women and children as live sheild, didn't you, because the rest of the world heard that loud and clear.

it is you who shoots russian supplied grads from residential areas, than leave, so ukraninan army shoots back, and hits civilians. and you call ukranian gvmnt fashist? have you eatten enough crap fed by kiselev tv yet?

Sorry, I replied to your message in another topic. The theme of Nemtsov

[bmk1245]

I think the mercenary and criminal way that Russia was handled by the west after the fall of the USSR would lead any country to prepare for aggressive acts from NATO. The EU/NATO/US has shown its willingness to impose regime change upon Russia's allies (Ukraine) so I think the concern is more than justified.

[...]

As far as I know EU NATO members were decreasing(?, if my memory serves me correctly) military spendings, until bedlam in Ukraine.

[...]

However when both sides are indulging in massive hyperbole and state propaganda it becomes all but impossible for the average citizen to understand what is really going on. Neither side in this cold war conflict can be trusted to speak a single word of truth so your guess is as good as mine as to the future.

Br Cornelius

Ok, fair point. And I really hope that you are right.

[sleplen]

Yes, you're right. But do not know the most important. People who were there shouting this arrow - what do you do, go away from here immediately, you provotsiruesh soldiers. !!!!!.

[bmk1245]

Yes, you're right. But do not know the most important. People who were there shouting this arrow - what do you do, go away from here immediately, you provotsiruesh soldiers. !!!!!.

For the sake of clarity, accusations of being provocateur were thrown at the shouting guy (not shooter) who walks across, in front of camera/phone, and mini brawl continued while shooter was "long" gone. Second, no one said word "soldiers".

[aztek]

500 corpses in the basement of Debaltseve - the result of "cleansing" in Russian (+ video)

http://crime.in.ua/news/20150310/debalcevo-ubiystva

is that how you liberate, slepen? well i hope you pay for that, and i have no doubt you will.

[sleplen]

Samantha Power, where she was when we were bombed phosphorus, do not you ask her? What does she know about Debaltseve? Aztec, you show one side of the coin. Look at the other.

I get paid for what I write here ?? Aztec, I do not work, banks, pensions and salaries are not. How can I pay?

You insulted me! I am here, no one was rude.

[sleplen]

The fact that a few days ago said Gerashchenko, could not be better explains everything that is happening in eastern Ukraine for a year.

Europe, in principle, all of us do not care. Europe no matter where is the border between Ukraine and Russia. Actually it does not matter if someone that is not understood. That the Kharkiv region, that even on the Dnieper. Even if a buffer zone between Europe and Russia will be a pair of the western regions, it is quite satisfied with them. America is also not particularly eager helps us, for a number of prichin.No America has a goal - to win sovdep, proxy on foreign soil. And this area we. And until it is fully captured, it regains its rol.K Unfortunately, the reality is that we are absolutely poheru all those who guaranteed the territorial tselostnost.Iskhodim us out of it and try to understand what really we can oppose Putin. Without illusions and shapkozakidatelstva.

Oh as if by themselves, and nothing but partisan, and underground movement soprotivleniya.Vse know little to capture the city or the main territory uderzhat.Mnogie so-called experts are building on this feeericheskie their analyzes and conclusions. Like, if Putin will take place tanks to Kiev, he can not uderzhat.Znaete that the worst? Able. Even will not hold. Keep it for the inertial mass of inhabitants, of which the majority. Which in principle all the barn. For whom war is not the worst idёt.A that even if it is not, it is still the Russians will not even try to hold something.

While Europe will express deep concern, the gang of mercenaries cut out for scrap all enterprises. Every conceivable technique and oborudovanie.I gone, leaving us with an empty treasury in srednevekove.Konechno help us rebuild Europe. Configures plants, particularly chemical, and we will be for a bowl of stew to plow these zavodah.Vot exactly that and tried to hint Геращенко.Вь@бет or BL @ bet Putin? In any case, yes. Because today there is no real factors constraining it.

Will we be able to withstand open aggression regular troops with air support? If we take the artillery, no. And if we do not take? Also do not need to smozhem.Ne yourself calm. We have nothing to oppose them without military assistance izvne.A outside help there? No. And is there any chance to get it? If we do not abide by the terms proposed by the most "outside" that is abroad, then if we net.A? Then at least the chances est.I these chances do not depend on European politicians. They spit on us. They have their own business interests with our mordorom.Shansy depend on their constituents, from ordinary people to be scared sovkom.Imenno for ordinary people who have seen war in a peaceful and tending to the world the country, next to them, and signed and respected all these agreements.

I do not know how much more we need to show the intention of the world to Europe saw that kill us and was horrified to see that Europe can be with them tomorrow ,, if you do not stop this segodnya.Vse else is garbage. What is the basis of democracy or political settlement Tipo that all was well, it's full of bred.Sytoy Europe is now all plevat.Edinstvenny way to stop it is to accept the terms of Mordor. That is, in fact, raise the tricolor over Kiev. Or the flag of the USSR. Does not matter. That is exactly what Putin is trying to do. So tired razdergannye morally destroyed the people were ready to stop all, in any way usloviyah.Vtoroy not now and not stop. And his teeth and fight. To win. Or to smerti.U many of these deaths will be more, God izvestno.I differently nikak.I then you just need to decide for yourself. And has already been determined not to twitch from side to side and pull the other. For example I chose to fight. And help those who have the same choice. So join. And then do not twitch.

[aztek]

Aztec, you show one side of the coin. Look at the other.

what is the other ?? show me how throwing grenades in basements, where people hiding from war, and saying we will do same in kiev, would look from others side,

[sleplen]

what is the other ?? show me how throwing grenades in basements, where people hiding from war, and saying we will do same in kiev, would look from others side,

Here are the testimonies of civilians Debaltsevo. About the atrocities of the Ukrainian fascists.

aztek, you're deliberately lying.Tell the people in the face.

[aztek]

Here are the testimonies of civilians Debaltsevo. About the atrocities of the Ukrainian fascists.

aztek, you're deliberately lying.Tell the people in the face.

so it is ukranian army threw granades in basements? yea, sure we believe it, lol.

we have seen planty of lies by such "locals"

Edited March 12, 2015 by aztek

[aztek]

[sleplen]

This is not the brutality of the Ukrainian fascists??? Who are you then?

[aztek]

who started this war? rebels did.

who wants to leberate" kiev? rebels do.

who has signs "to lvov" on their tanks? rebels do.

who shoots russian grads from residentail areas? rebels do.

what does ukraine army does? fight rebels that started the war.

Edited March 12, 2015 by aztek

[sleplen]

who started this war? rebels did.

who wants to leberate" kiev? rebels do.

who has signs "to lvov" on their tanks? rebels do.

who shoots russian grads from residentail areas? rebels do.

what does ukraine army does? fight rebels that started the war.

who started this war? rebels did.

The war began in Kiev on independence square, with the support of the United States and Europe. The US understood the West and the East of Ukraine, quarrel among themselves. The West has always sought to Europe. East to Russia. America, paid a square, that sparked the war in Ukraine. Donbass and Crimea did not support the Maidan were against fascism. Russia defended the Crimea and the Donbas. What here not clear?

who wants to leberate" kiev? rebels do.

Who wants to Moscow? Ukrainian fascists.

[sleplen]