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Who Is Running ISIS?

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Space Commander Travis

People keep saying incompetence and it makes my blood boil. You are buying into the lie that they didn't plan and anticipate everything that is going on.

The US is working to secure access to its oil interests and remove opposition to its foreign policy objective. It's a very cheap war to finance terrorists and they have long standing form for doing so in all corners of the world. There is almost no threat to real American assets at home so it perfectly fine to destabilize a whole region and then just mop up after - they have been doing exactly that for at least 70years at this stage.

Israel is facilitating the on the ground logistics and monitoring who's really doing what. they get rid of their main enemy Assad and weaken Iran in the process.

These psychopaths have shown to many times that they do not care a jot how many people die in order to secure their interests so seeing their activities through your own morally driven world view is just missing the reality of what we are actually dealing with here. There is a clique who really want to rule the world and will do anything to achieve that objective. The ME is just a small staging post.

PS - Russia has to be drawn into this because if the Russians and BRIC countries succeed in establishing an alternative reserve currency then the game is really up for the Globalists in America. Its end game time for America - win this skirmish or hang up your boots and leave the field. In light of this they are desperate enough to attaempt anything to hold back the threat posed by the BRIC's even to the extent of sending NATO into direct battle with Russia and China.

Everything that has happened since Iraq is logically inevitable in light of this since both Iraq and Libya both threatened to dump the Dollar before they were destroyed.

These are not normal people and cannot be judged by normal moral standards.

Br Cornelius

I agree absolutely. Surely anyone with any perceptive ability at all has only to look at the pronouncements of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Clinton h etc, to be able to see that perhaps the conspiracy theorists were right all along.

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Space Commander Travis

re underlined..

Ron Paul brought up that point in the video earlier in the thread that it wasn't incompetence/stupidity but strategy...

Can we entertain the possibility that it is a FAILED strategy - - and now there are red faces all round...?

I'm not sure how you know that Israel is doing what you have said above..?

And I would think that for Israel an Assad lead Syria would be preferable to the Islamic State attacking them...

Which would happen if (and when) they seize enough land and get enough fighters - who can't wait to martyr

themselves to kill Jews...especially Jews in their Homeland...

.

The Islamic State really aren't bothered about Israel. It's part of the Western propaganda that they want to destroy Israel because they hate the Jews, they're really only bothered about bringing all of the Islamic world under their rule. Israel sees Syria, as long as Assad's still in control, as one of the major obstacles to their strategy, just like Iran. So they're quite happy to let ISIS do everything they can to do that for them.

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Phaeton80

How do you propose the average citizen help to stop it? Seriously, other than voting, what else can a citizen DO? This whole mess in the M.E. has gotten so bizarre lately that it seems impossible to figure who's killing who and for what reason. Blaming one entity or another may be satisfying to an extent but it doesn't change anything. We seem to be heading toward a pre-planned regional (or greater) war. That's the craziest part of all... who benefits from something so destructive that it could actually spin into a nuke exchange?

The elements who profited from WWI and II are still around; situation hasnt really changed that much.. Nothing new under the sun in that sense. Besides ofcourse, the fact there are countless deep underground facilities these days. Implicit, sometimes even explicit aspirations being verbalised to cull the world population. One can scream conspiracy theorist all one likes, but these ideas are all but farfetched. There are scores of people on this globe who wouldnt lose any sleep at all, while being indirectly responsible for the death of hundreds of millions (playing both sides of the fence), 'end justifying the means' and all that BS.

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and then

The elements who profited from WWI and II are still around; situation hasnt really changed that much.. Nothing new under the sun in that sense. Besides ofcourse, the fact there are countless deep underground facilities these days. Implicit, sometimes even explicit aspirations being verbalised to cull the world population. One can scream conspiracy theorist all one likes, but these ideas are all but farfetched. There are scores of people on this globe who wouldnt lose any sleep at all, while being indirectly responsible for the death of hundreds of millions (playing both sides of the fence), 'end justifying the means' and all that BS.

All I can say is that if you are correct, it is TIME for a culling - we deserve it for being sheep. But those underground bunkers better be damned elaborate if the US, Russia and China start throwing nukes around.

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bee

The Islamic State really aren't bothered about Israel.

Of course not, silly me - I'm sure they will make lovely neighbours

It's part of the Western propaganda that they want to destroy Israel because they hate the Jews, they're really only bothered about bringing all of the Islamic world under their rule.

There's plenty of anti-jew, anti-Israel propaganda circulating in the West and people just like yourself enthusiastically embrace it -

the demonizing of Jews seems to be a historic and modern pastime -

you seriously believe that the Islamic State wouldn't want to 'take' Israel for Islam...?

Israel sees Syria, as long as Assad's still in control, as one of the major obstacles to their strategy, just like Iran. So they're quite happy to let ISIS do everything they can to do that for them.

Do you and Br Cornelius have your own spies within the Israeli government..?

It must be super duper to have such definite Inside knowledge - ^_^

.

.

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bee

People keep saying incompetence and it makes my blood boil. You are buying into the lie that they didn't plan and anticipate everything that is going on.

I want to come back to this -

Incompetence isn't just 'duh how stupid we are/were'

There is such a thing as an incompetent strategy - and I think that de-stabalising the Middle East,

destroying Iraq, Libya and Syria and (re)making an enemy of Russia is an Incompetent strategy -

Siding with Saudi Arabia and ignoring their part in 9/11 - allowing them to finance and spread terrorism

and secretly support the growing Islamic State - is an incompetent strategy....IMO...

And the blow back from the Incompetent strategy will be detrimental to the West and the US, somewhere

down the line -

.

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President-Elect Acidhead

yep... incompetent american foreign policy.... GW was nothing more than Eddie Haskell with an army.

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Space Commander Travis

Of course not, silly me - I'm sure they will make lovely neighbours

There's plenty of anti-jew, anti-Israel propaganda circulating in the West and people just like yourself enthusiastically embrace it -

the demonizing of Jews seems to be a historic and modern pastime -

you seriously believe that the Islamic State wouldn't want to 'take' Israel for Islam...?

Do you and Br Cornelius have your own spies within the Israeli government..?

It must be super duper to have such definite Inside knowledge - ^_^

.

.

You really ought to try to put your assumptions aside for a moment. They really don't seem all that bothered about the Jews, at the moment at any rate. Perhaps later, once they've converted all of islam to their rule, then they might go on to the next stage, but as it is Israel is much lower down their list of priorities than the Islamic traitors and infidels. besides, Israel has a pretty competent army, and they only turn their unstoppable might on countries that either don't have an army to speak of, like Iraq, or that's thoroughly preoccupied already, like Syria.

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Space Commander Travis

I'm ignoring the bit about "people just like yourself", as it isn't worthy of dignifying with a reply.

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bee

All I can say is that if you are correct, it is TIME for a culling - we deserve it for being sheep. But those underground bunkers better be damned elaborate if the US, Russia and China start throwing nukes around.

Don't want to go off topic too much - but it could be a myth that nuclear weapons

can be popped off here there or anywhere - any time - any place -

Detonating the 'big ones' (and suitcase ones?) could be dependent on certain geometrical conditions within the solar system -

where there are windows of opportunity regarding when and where they can be detonated -

All nuclear powers will be constantly aware of the windows of opportunity and have that covered, so the 'enemies' weapons could be

destroyed before they get to optimum positions -

There could be a right old conspiracy going on regarding nuclear weapons and how difficult it could be to use them in 'anger'

Bruce Cathie first brought this to my attention and there is also a guy called Keith Hunter who has done a lot of research on this -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsWYYNZNIGw

.

Edited by bee

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bee

I'm ignoring the bit about "people just like yourself", as it isn't worthy of dignifying with a reply.

no - you didn't ignore it - and you DID dignify it with a reply - :innocent:

.

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Space Commander Travis

You seem to have an automatic kneejerk response to any mention of Israel, to automatically accuse anyone who mentions it of hating the Jews. How does suggesting that ISIS don't seem at the moment to be too concerned about Israela automatically equate to hating the Jews? That does seem rather a blind spot with you.

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bee

You seem to have an automatic kneejerk response to any mention of Israel, to automatically accuse anyone who mentions it of hating the Jews. How does suggesting that ISIS don't seem at the moment to be too concerned about Israela automatically equate to hating the Jews? That does seem rather a blind spot with you.

I said, in effect, that you embrace anti-Jew...anti Israel propaganda.....and the demonizing of Jews - and I stand by that -

Can't agree on everything can we...cus that would be boring.... ^_^

:D

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Space Commander Travis

I see, so you say that I hate the Jews, and I'm expect to say "ok, fine, we can't agree on everything" with a smilie face, am I? Anyway, I'll try asking again, why is the suggestion that ISIS are, perhaps, sensible enough not to try anything with Israel any time soon embracing anti-jewish propaganda? If anything it's a compliment to the Israeli Defence forces. Surely anti-jewish propaganda would try to claim that the Islamic hordes would wipe the floor with 'em.

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bee

The Islamic State really aren't bothered about Israel. It's part of the Western propaganda that they want to destroy Israel because they hate the Jews, they're really only bothered about bringing all of the Islamic world under their rule. Israel sees Syria, as long as Assad's still in control, as one of the major obstacles to their strategy, just like Iran. So they're quite happy to let ISIS do everything they can to do that for them.

I see, so you say that I hate the Jews, and I'm expect to say "ok, fine, we can't agree on everything" with a smilie face, am I? Anyway, I'll try asking again, why is the suggestion that ISIS are, perhaps, sensible enough not to try anything with Israel any time soon embracing anti-jewish propaganda? If anything it's a compliment to the Israeli Defence forces. Surely anti-jewish propaganda would try to claim that the Islamic hordes would wipe the floor with 'em.

I don't know if you hate the Jews or not - or whether you just embrace the anti Jew/Israel propaganda in general...

for whatever reason ....

aaaaanyway - - - please see the underlined in the top quote - this is what got me going - I think anti Jew/Israel

propaganda is rife in the West - and your claim that the notion that Islamic State would want

to destroy Israel etc etc is just Western Propaganda - is IMO - incorrect - -and your taking

this stance reflects your attitude, in general to Jews/Israel - which is somewhat negative -

Now you admit that the present strategy of the Islamic State might change over time - and try and twist it that recognising that

the ''Islamic hordes'' could at some point pose a threat to Israel - could be interpreted as anti jewish propaganda -

well that was a bit of a clever clogs twist to this little exchange - but it doesn't wash with me - sorry -

warning - smiley faces underneath these words...

:wacko:

:blink:

:D

.

Edited by bee
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Br Cornelius

It is clearly a fact that Mossad have been and are vital for intelligence gathering in the Middle east and creating supply chains. They are practically the Middle East division of the CIA.

I also find it difficult to understand how stating well known facts is antisemitic Bee.

Br Cornelius

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Br Cornelius

I want to come back to this -

Incompetence isn't just 'duh how stupid we are/were'

There is such a thing as an incompetent strategy - and I think that de-stabalising the Middle East,

destroying Iraq, Libya and Syria and (re)making an enemy of Russia is an Incompetent strategy -

Siding with Saudi Arabia and ignoring their part in 9/11 - allowing them to finance and spread terrorism

and secretly support the growing Islamic State - is an incompetent strategy....IMO...

And the blow back from the Incompetent strategy will be detrimental to the West and the US, somewhere

down the line -

.

That is a value judgement on your part Bee. I don't personally share it since i think they did enough work on analysis to predict the outcomes and they still went ahead. They obviously have a goal in which a destroyed ME is part of the plan and they feel the risks are worth it.

I personally believe that they consider the removal of Assad and eventually Iran is worth almost any risk since until that is done they cannot hope to install compliant puppet regimes to do their bidding.

Br Cornelius

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bee

That is a value judgement on your part Bee. I don't personally share it since i think they did enough work on analysis to predict the outcomes and they still went ahead. They obviously have a goal in which a destroyed ME is part of the plan and they feel the risks are worth it.

I personally believe that they consider the removal of Assad and eventually Iran is worth almost any risk since until that is done they cannot hope to install compliant puppet regimes to do their bidding.

Br Cornelius

Personally I don't think they have a hope in hell of installing compliant regimes anywhere in the Middle East and North Africa now

or in the near future - those days are over - even if Saudi Arabia tries to exert influence on America's behalf they will soon find themselves

over-ruled and possibly over run - even though they are instrumental to the rise of the Islamic State at this present time - ?

That's why I think the US strategy is incompetent - even though they think (hoped) it might work - and that the destabilizing is what was intended -

I think it was a rubbish plan -

.

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RoofGardener

Hmmmm.... I'd be cautious about statements like ".. it is clearly a fact" when it comes to the activities of Mossad and the CIA, Br Cornelius. In the literal sense, most of their activities are NOT published to the general public, so "facts" are usually far from clear, and are usually "assumptions" or "beliefs" on our part, rather than anything that could be corroborated.

I read a book a couple of years ago; darned if I can remember the name, but it was by a reputable journalist, and it was an overview of the Iraq war. It included many chapters on the planning both of the war, and the likely aftermath.

I mention it because the journalist was astonished at the LACK of planning for the aftermath. Even relatively junior officers (up to Colonel level, if I recall correctly) in CentCom where sounding alarm bells about this lack. The top commanders, however, seemed obsessed with political considerations (including budgets), and seemed blinkered by this odd belief that the population would arise against Saddam, and there would be a popular revolution resulting in democratic elections. It was almost an article of faith.

I mention this to illustrate that the ability of the US military to predict outcomes is secondary to the preconceptions of the Theatre Commander and his advisors, some of whom are dangerously close to the political process. (as was General Tommy Franks during the second gulf war).

I'm not sure how chaos in the Middle East would enhance US interests. Business usually thrives on stability. For that reason I tend to lean towards the "c*** up" theory of US involvement, rather than it being part of a grand, synchronised conspiracy.

Edited by RoofGardener
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Space Commander Travis

Hmmmm.... I'd be cautious about statements like ".. it is clearly a fact" when it comes to the activities of Mossad and the CIA, Br Cornelius. In the literal sense, most of their activities are NOT published to the general public, so "facts" are usually far from clear, and are usually "assumptions" or "beliefs" on our part, rather than anything that could be corroborated.

I read a book a couple of years ago; darned if I can remember the name, but it was by a reputable journalist, and it was an overview of the Iraq war. It included many chapters on the planning both of the war, and the likely aftermath.

I mention it because the journalist was astonished at the LACK of planning for the aftermath. Even relatively junior officers (up to Colonel level, if I recall correctly) in CentCom where sounding alarm bells about this lack. The top commanders, however, seemed obsessed with political considerations (including budgets), and seemed blinkered by this odd belief that the population would arise against Saddam, and there would be a popular revolution resulting in democratic elections. It was almost an article of faith.

I mention this to illustrate that the ability of the US military to predict outcomes is secondary to the preconceptions of the Theatre Commander and his advisors, some of whom are dangerously close to the political process. (as was General Tommy Franks during the second gulf war).

I'm not sure how chaos in the Middle East would enhance US interests. Business usually thrives on stability. For that reason I tend to lean towards the "c*** up" theory of US involvement, rather than it being part of a grand, synchronised conspiracy.

I think that's probably fair; however, I think there is a strategy in the medium term at any rate, and that's to get rid of Assad, and then they'd very much like it, to say the least, if Iran was to follow, but as to whether they've thought beyond that to what they might prefer to have instead of Assad or ... whatever the current fella in charge of Iran is called :unsure: , I'm not so sure. :unsure2:

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NewAge1

I think that's probably fair; however, I think there is a strategy in the medium term at any rate, and that's to get rid of Assad, and then they'd very much like it, to say the least, if Iran was to follow, but as to whether they've thought beyond that to what they might prefer to have instead of Assad or ... whatever the current fella in charge of Iran is called :unsure: , I'm not so sure. :unsure2:

No doubt that's the desired outcome - that Assad accept to step down - but will it happen? That seems unclear. The US had more than one occasion to jump in with NATO and call it Lybia 2.0. That didn't happen. If US strategists are omniscient, then they should have known that arming and funding rebel groups would not be sufficiant, since Iran and Russia have done the same with Assad, billions worth. That's not to say all the Shi'a fighters Iran has and will continue to mobilize.

Edited by Phenix20

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Phaeton80

All I can say is that if you are correct, it is TIME for a culling - we deserve it for being sheep. But those underground bunkers better be damned elaborate if the US, Russia and China start throwing nukes around.

I certainly do not agree with that. The sheer level of assets, technology being employed against the unwitting public is such that we didnt really stand a chance in h3ll. Its like stealing candy from a disabled toddler. Nothing to be ashamed, or to worry about.

That is to say, for the public being 'victimized'. At the end of the day, we will wake up and end it... or we wont. Either way; these elite are only destroying themselves with every step they take against us.

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Phaeton80
2012 Defense Intelligence Agency document: West will facilitate rise of Islamic State “in order to isolate the Syrian regime”

On Monday, May 18, the conservative government watchdog group Judicial Watch published a selection of formerly classified documents obtained from the U.S. Department of Defense and State Department through a federal lawsuit.

While initial mainstream media reporting is focused on the White House’s handling of the Benghazi consulate attack, a much “bigger picture” admission and confirmation is contained in one of the Defense Intelligence Agency documents circulated in 2012: that an ‘Islamic State’ is desired in Eastern Syria to effect the West’s policies in the region.

Astoundingly, the newly declassified report states that for “THE WEST, GULF COUNTRIES, AND TURKEY [WHO] SUPPORT THE [sYRIAN] OPPOSITION… THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF ESTABLISHING A DECLARED OR UNDECLARED SALAFIST PRINCIPALITY IN EASTERN SYRIA (HASAKA AND DER ZOR), AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE SUPPORTING POWERS TO THE OPPOSITION WANT, IN ORDER TO ISOLATE THE SYRIAN REGIME…”.

http://levantreport....-syrian-regime/

Edited by Phaeton80

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Phaeton80
One of the key US men in Syria, the "Free Syrian Army" (FSA) Col. Abdel Jabbar al-Okaidi, who operated mostly in the Greater Aleppo area, was open about his daily communication and collaboration with extremist jihadists from the "Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant" (ISIL) and al-Qaeda's official branch in Syria, Jabhat al-Nusra. He refers to their fighters as brothers. In one footage after the rebel capture of Menagh military airbase, he even appeared standing next to an Egyptian jihadist from ISIL, Abu Jandal, while thanking him and his group for their contributions. The US is known to have funneled military aid to al-Okaidi and others in the FSA throughout the last couple of years.

Edited by Phaeton80

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Space Commander Travis

I don't know if you hate the Jews or not - or whether you just embrace the anti Jew/Israel propaganda in general...

for whatever reason ....

aaaaanyway - - - please see the underlined in the top quote - this is what got me going - I think anti Jew/Israel

propaganda is rife in the West - and your claim that the notion that Islamic State would want

to destroy Israel etc etc is just Western Propaganda - is IMO - incorrect - -and your taking

this stance reflects your attitude, in general to Jews/Israel - which is somewhat negative -

Now you admit that the present strategy of the Islamic State might change over time - and try and twist it that recognising that

the ''Islamic hordes'' could at some point pose a threat to Israel - could be interpreted as anti jewish propaganda -

well that was a bit of a clever clogs twist to this little exchange - but it doesn't wash with me - sorry -

warning - smiley faces underneath these words...

:wacko:

:blink:

:D

.

i see, and I suppose you expect me not to be offended by statements like the above (endorsed by your friend And then).

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