+and-then Posted February 21, 2015 #1 Share Posted February 21, 2015 You know I was asking the same thing to myself.But I never feel the necessity to ask this in public.Because I already know what the reaction would be.It will be something like IS know very well that if they attack Israel they will be annihilated so they are very careful attacking Israel. Here story finished Do you think they could win against the IDF? I think they don't attack because they know they will be beaten badly and they want to wait until they can build their forces before they try Israel in combat. Jordan otoh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted February 21, 2015 #2 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) No it should not be. I am not spouting a Conspiracy theory of any kind...I am truly asking a legitimate question...Who is behind ISIS? The stories I mentioned are main stream news stories...not off of some Conspiracy Website. And as far as Secret Society...ISIS is no secret...and I find it hard to believe that the real leaders are either. They are clearly a group of intelligent and well connected people. Oh i see, I thought were you trying to insinuate that the Vatican was actually behind it, which really is Dan Brown territory. Well, their support and wealth comes from the same place that the support and wealth behind Al Q came from; our brave and loyal ally just south of Iraq. Edited February 21, 2015 by Valdemar the Great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted February 21, 2015 #3 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Tell that to the Italians...they are taking the threat very seriously with 4000 troops on the border. Italian intel is also concerned about ISIS airstrikes. or are you still of the mindset Obama was this time last year...that ISIS is just Al Qaida's JV team? Perhaps they're more concerned about the refugees from Libya, the latest Failed State that NATO brought Freedom to. And what do they envisage ISIS using for these" airstrikes"? Do they mean the Al Q technique of hijacking civilian planes? Every country surely has contingency plans for that in place. They're not seriously worried about ISIS actually using ex Libyan AF planes to actually attack Italy, are they? As for the Al Q/ISIS question, ISIS did develop out of Al Q's Iraqi branch, yes (which didn't exist before GW Bush gave Iraq their "Freedom"). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted February 21, 2015 #4 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Do you think they could win against the IDF? I think they don't attack because they know they will be beaten badly and they want to wait until they can build their forces before they try Israel in combat. Jordan otoh.... Not in any possible way if they took them on on the battlefield. On the other hand, it's very, very difficult to put down insurrectional warfare, isn't it, as both the US and Israel know very well, you know how it's been impossible to put down Hezbollah despite even Israel's overwhelming might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted February 21, 2015 #5 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Not in any possible way if they took them on on the battlefield. On the other hand, it's very, very difficult to put down insurrectional warfare, isn't it, as both the US and Israel know very well, you know how it's been impossible to put down Hezbollah despite even Israel's overwhelming might. The IDF hasn't had to fight such a war. They have invaded no one and the numbers of Arab Israeli citizens who are radicalized is relatively minor. Saying Israel is unable to put down Hizballah is just wrong. They are more than capable of destroying the Hezzies. The problem is that they have to refrain from using total force to do it because of the civilian losses they would cause - the Hezzies love to hide behind the skirts you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted February 21, 2015 #6 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Funny, i thought Israel relied on skill and technology to minimise collateral damage, now it's because they haven't been able to carpet-bomb Gaza back into Old Testament times, then? But we may be wandering off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted February 21, 2015 #7 Share Posted February 21, 2015 My apologies if this upsets our esteemed Colonial friends here but... you know.. sometimes things happen without America's active invovlement or management ? The Taliban (as opposed to the mujahadeen) are a case in point. (To be fair, this doesn't happen often. Off the top of my head, the only other things I can think of is Cricket and Benedict Cumberbatch ?? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted February 21, 2015 #8 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Funny, i thought Israel relied on skill and technology to minimise collateral damage, now it's because they haven't been able to carpet-bomb Gaza back into Old Testament times, then? But we may be wandering off topic. Do pay attention.... we were discussing Hizballah - not Gaza... and you know full well that the Hezzies place rocket launchers in those nice new apartments they're providing the Lebanese civvies for free. And when Israel finally DOES break bad on them you will sit back and snipe just as you're doing now. You don't honestly think people don't know what you're about, do you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docyabut2 Posted February 21, 2015 #9 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Who is running ISIS? First of all they are now saying the organ selling story might not be true. Its seems they are hiring English speaking assassins to do their horror,some of them are ex rappers of other countries., not like your other local theorist tapes of the past . The brand new trucks they are driving look like they just came off the assembly line. Perhaps some very rich secret muslin billionaire is behind them. In the movies it always a secret guy running the whole show.Can`nt they trace the funds and the high technology equipment being supplied to ISIS.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted February 21, 2015 Author #10 Share Posted February 21, 2015 So far, we have two very good answers to the question of who is running ISIS: This guy: and this guy: As much as I like the idea of the first guy being in charge...,Baghdadi did start the Islamic State...he got his doctorate in Islamic Studies from the University of Baghdad and his followers believe he is the leader of ISIS. So...I kind of have to say....this guy. (Thank you Lilly) Also...according to Wikipedia...Link... The Islamic State of Iraq (ISI), also known as Al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), was the Iraqi division of al-Qaeda. Al-Baghdadi was announced as leader of the ISI on 16 May 2010, following the death of his predecessor Abu Omar al-Baghdadi.[32] Following the death of founder and head of al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, on 2 May 2011, in Abbottabad, Pakistan, al-Baghdadi released a statement praising bin Laden and threatening violent retaliation for his death. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi alternatively ...known to his supporters as Amir al-Mu'minin or Caliph Ibrahim ...is ringleader of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), an Islamic extremist group in western Iraq and Syria, self-styled as the "Islamic State". He has been proclaimed by his followers to be the Caliph. On 29 June 2014, ISIL announced the establishment of a worldwide caliphate. Al-Baghdadi was named its caliph, to be known as "Caliph Ibrahim", and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant was renamed the "Islamic State" (IS).There has been much debate especially across the Muslim world about the legitimacy of these moves. On 5 July 2014, a video was released apparently showing al-Baghdadi making a speech at the Great Mosque of al-Nuri in Mosul, northern Iraq. A representative of the Iraqi government denied that the video was of al-Baghdadi, calling it a "farce".[51] However, both the BBC[55] and the Associated Press[56] quoted unnamed Iraqi officials as saying that the man in the video was believed to be al-Baghdadi. In the video, al-Baghdadi declared himself the world leader of Muslims and called on Muslims everywhere to support him.[57] On 8 July 2014, ISIL launched its online magazine Dabiq. The title appears to have been selected for its eschatological connections with the Islamic version of the End times, or Malahim.[58] According to a report in October 2014, after suffering serious injuries, al-Baghdadi fled ISIL's capital city Ar-Raqqah due to the intense bombing campaign launched by coalition forces, and sought refuge in the Iraqi city of Mosul, the largest city under ISIL control.[59] On 5 November 2014, al-Baghdadi sent a message to al-Qaeda Emir Ayman al-Zawahiri requesting him to sever his allegiance to Taliban commander Mullah Mohammed Omar. Al-Bagdahdi allegedly called the Taliban leader "an ignorant, illiterate warlord, unworthy of spiritual or political respect". He then urged al-Zawahiri to swear allegiance to him as Caliph, in return for a position in the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. The source of this information was a senior Taliban intelligence officer. Al-Zawahiri did not reply, and instead reassured the Taliban of his loyalty to Mullah Omar.[60] On 8 November 2014, there were unconfirmed reports of al-Baghdadi's death after an airstrike in Mosul,[61] while other reports said that he was only wounded.[62] On 13 November 2014, ISIL released an audio-taped message, claiming it to be in the voice of al-Baghdadi. In the 17-minute recording, released via social media, the speaker said that ISIL fighters would never cease fighting "even if only one soldier remains". The speaker urged supporters of the Islamic State to "erupt volcanoes of jihad" across the world. He called for attacks to be mounted in Saudi Arabia—describing Saudi leaders as "the head of the snake" and said that the US-led military campaign in Syria and Iraq was failing. He also said that ISIL would keep on marching and would "break the borders" of Jordan and Lebanon and "free Palestine."[63] On 20 January 2015, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported that al-Baghdadi had been wounded in an airstrike in Al-Qa'im, an Iraqi border town held by ISIL, and as a result, withdrew to Syria.[64] 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle Jim Posted February 21, 2015 #11 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Mecca? Perhaps a proxy movement of the Saudis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted February 21, 2015 #12 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) After some initial help by our 'friends' and 'allies' in the region, I don't believe anyone needed ''pulling the strings'' any further. I mean ISIL rapidly became self-sustaining, when they took Mosul back in June with no more than 800 fighters reports suggest they had access to about 375M$ by emptying the city's banks. Then not long after it is estimated they got a clear 2.8M$ per day revenue by capturing 5 oilfields - oil that they apparently smuggled into Turkey and Iran. Same thing in Syria, where they laid theirs hands on raffineries. We are not even talking about the extortions on local businesses, ransoms for hostages and other private donations by wealthy donors. Now we hear reports of a network of organs trafficking. Let's face it, ISIL is now running itself through it's own chain of commands. Whether or not it was intented to be that way, I can't claim to know but that's what they became. Perhaps it was initially meant as a Sunnis counterbalance to Hezbollah in Syria. In which case it soon went out of control. Edited February 21, 2015 by samus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted February 21, 2015 #13 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Who is running ISIS? First of all they are now saying the organ selling story might not be true. Its seems they are hiring English speaking assassins to do their horror,some of them are ex rappers of other countries., not like your other local theorist tapes of the past . The brand new trucks they are driving look like they just came off the assembly line. Perhaps some very rich secret muslin billionaire is behind them. In the movies it always a secret guy running the whole show.Can`nt they trace the funds and the high technology equipment being supplied to ISIS.? What is this high technology equipment they've supposedly got? They just seem to use standard insurgent-style tactics, which need no sophisticated weaponry at all, and their weapons seem to insurgent-standard Ak-47s and Toyota pickups (albeit in this case, shiny new ones, no doubt a very generous present from one of their supporters in Saudi Arabia), and various kinds of elderly Soviet bloc armour that they "liberated" from the Iraqi "army". They were only able to give the impression of sweeping all before them because their opposition was the incompetently led Iraqi army, which had been stripped of all its competent officers by the American Liberators, and many of whom in fact joined ISIS. It shows how non-invincible they actually are that another "unofficial" army, only in this case the good ones (the Kurds), and the regular Syrian army, even after everything that they've endured over the last few years, have been able to make significant advances against them. That's why they've expanded into Libya; because the conditions are exactly the same as in Iraq after they were treated to another dose of "Freedom", and because they've been checked in Iraq and Syria. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted February 21, 2015 Author #14 Share Posted February 21, 2015 What is this high technology equipment they've supposedly got? They just seem to use standard insurgent-style tactics, which need no sophisticated weaponry at all, and their weapons seem to insurgent-standard Ak-47s and Toyota pickups (albeit in this case, shiny new ones, no doubt a very generous present from one of their supporters in Saudi Arabia), and various kinds of elderly Soviet bloc armour that they "liberated" from the Iraqi "army". They were only able to give the impression of sweeping all before them because their opposition was the incompetently led Iraqi army, which had been stripped of all its competent officers by the American Liberators, and many of whom in fact joined ISIS. It shows how non-invincible they actually are that another "unofficial" army, only in this case the good ones (the Kurds), and the regular Syrian army, even after everything that they've endured over the last few years, have been able to make significant advances against them. That's why they've expanded into Libya; because the conditions are exactly the same as in Iraq after they were treated to another dose of "Freedom", and because they've been checked in Iraq and Syria. Nice take on the essence of Surrealism! They don't need Saudi oil money...they have their own...through theft (see above posts) as well as other major income sources...in fact...ISIS sees Saudi Arabia as an enemy and have also vowed to destroy them. Do you think that the Iraqi armies competent officers were 'good guys'...how about ...NO...they were part of The Iraq Republican Guard, which was destroyed by America's Shock and Awe Campaign in 2003. So why is it a surprise that many would join ISIS...with a resume of 'competent officers' I'm sure ISIS took them in gladly. By the way...we have discussed in other threads the incredible high tech wall being built by the Saudis even as we speak...primarily they say...to keep ISIS out. It is the Saudis who have also been warning the US not to underestimate this formidable enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted February 21, 2015 #15 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Surrealism? Not sure what you're talking about. yes, i know Iraq's republican Guard was destroyed by America's Shock and Awe campaign, a fact about which you seem proud. You seem, however, unable to see any correlation between the destruction of Iraq and any subsequent resentment that might have resulted from that towards the country that "Freed" it. If you can't, then I'm really sorry, but I can't help you any further there. Whether or not the former Iraqi army officers were 'good guys' is neither here nor there, and again, if you wish to believe that the government and the senior leadership of the army that was put in place after Iraq was "Freed" were "good guys" then you're perfectly welcome to do so, whether or not that has any basis in fact, but again is irrelevant to their competence or their willingness to resist any insurgency from the likes of ISIS. Similarly again, if the ultra-hardline, incredibly wealthy and immensely militarily powerful state of Saudi Arabia is seriously threatened by a bunch of ill-equipped insurgents, that says more about the competence of the Saudi government and military leadership than it does about the supposed menace to civilization that ISIS poses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Red Devil Posted February 21, 2015 #16 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Hot off the press!!! ISIS is planning to send a spaceship to Mars which they created from scrap metal they stole from Assad's chemical weapon factory. They're going to shoot a few Islamist scholars there to ensure that when the 100 one way trippers arrive they colonise and start a new civilisation under the blessings of the Prophet Mohammed. Allahu Akbar Rumour goes that Mossad is sending one of their most faithful spies to sabotage the operation. The only certainties known at this point is that this spy often posts and peddles his (yes it is possibly a Male as described in his profile) biased opinions on this very same site, UM and he's from the UK (as described in his profile). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Red Devil Posted February 21, 2015 #17 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) So far, we have two very good answers to the question of who is running ISIS: This guy: and this guy: As much as I like the idea of the first guy being in charge...,Baghdadi did start the Islamic State...he got his doctorate in Islamic Studies from the University of Baghdad and his followers believe he is the leader of ISIS. So...I kind of have to say....this guy. (Thank you Lilly) Also...according to Wikipedia...Link... The Islamic State of Iraq (ISI), also known as Al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), was the Iraqi division of al-Qaeda. Al-Baghdadi was announced as leader of the ISI on 16 May 2010, following the death of his predecessor Abu Omar al-Baghdadi.[32] Following the death of founder and head of al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, on 2 May 2011, in Abbottabad, Pakistan, al-Baghdadi released a statement praising bin Laden and threatening violent retaliation for his death. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi alternatively ...known to his supporters as Amir al-Mu'minin or Caliph Ibrahim ...is ringleader of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), an Islamic extremist group in western Iraq and Syria, self-styled as the "Islamic State". He has been proclaimed by his followers to be the Caliph. On 29 June 2014, ISIL announced the establishment of a worldwide caliphate. Al-Baghdadi was named its caliph, to be known as "Caliph Ibrahim", and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant was renamed the "Islamic State" (IS).There has been much debate especially across the Muslim world about the legitimacy of these moves. On 5 July 2014, a video was released apparently showing al-Baghdadi making a speech at the Great Mosque of al-Nuri in Mosul, northern Iraq. A representative of the Iraqi government denied that the video was of al-Baghdadi, calling it a "farce".[51] However, both the BBC[55] and the Associated Press[56] quoted unnamed Iraqi officials as saying that the man in the video was believed to be al-Baghdadi. In the video, al-Baghdadi declared himself the world leader of Muslims and called on Muslims everywhere to support him.[57] On 8 July 2014, ISIL launched its online magazine Dabiq. The title appears to have been selected for its eschatological connections with the Islamic version of the End times, or Malahim.[58] According to a report in October 2014, after suffering serious injuries, al-Baghdadi fled ISIL's capital city Ar-Raqqah due to the intense bombing campaign launched by coalition forces, and sought refuge in the Iraqi city of Mosul, the largest city under ISIL control.[59] On 5 November 2014, al-Baghdadi sent a message to al-Qaeda Emir Ayman al-Zawahiri requesting him to sever his allegiance to Taliban commander Mullah Mohammed Omar. Al-Bagdahdi allegedly called the Taliban leader "an ignorant, illiterate warlord, unworthy of spiritual or political respect". He then urged al-Zawahiri to swear allegiance to him as Caliph, in return for a position in the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. The source of this information was a senior Taliban intelligence officer. Al-Zawahiri did not reply, and instead reassured the Taliban of his loyalty to Mullah Omar.[60] On 8 November 2014, there were unconfirmed reports of al-Baghdadi's death after an airstrike in Mosul,[61] while other reports said that he was only wounded.[62] On 13 November 2014, ISIL released an audio-taped message, claiming it to be in the voice of al-Baghdadi. In the 17-minute recording, released via social media, the speaker said that ISIL fighters would never cease fighting "even if only one soldier remains". The speaker urged supporters of the Islamic State to "erupt volcanoes of jihad" across the world. He called for attacks to be mounted in Saudi Arabia—describing Saudi leaders as "the head of the snake" and said that the US-led military campaign in Syria and Iraq was failing. He also said that ISIL would keep on marching and would "break the borders" of Jordan and Lebanon and "free Palestine."[63] On 20 January 2015, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported that al-Baghdadi had been wounded in an airstrike in Al-Qa'im, an Iraqi border town held by ISIL, and as a result, withdrew to Syria.[64] Psst, Joc....JOC Between me and you.....psst...the world has known about Al Baghdadi for quite some time now, actually, from the time IS (as opposed to ISIS, ISIL, etc.) in 2014 proclaimed him or he proclaimed himself as THE Caliph. But, I have to admit, the goat was a surprise. Edited February 21, 2015 by Black Red Devil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarPlexus Posted February 21, 2015 #18 Share Posted February 21, 2015 ISIS is running itself, with help from the west Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted February 21, 2015 #19 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Just for the feck of it I'm going to play the partisan divide game. Bag-Daddy wouldn't be the leader if GWB didn't release him from captivity in 2004. (YAWN).... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A rather obscure Bassoon Posted February 21, 2015 #20 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) removed.... Edited February 21, 2015 by shaddow134 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarPlexus Posted February 21, 2015 #21 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Saudi sunnis could be one of the backers too Edited February 21, 2015 by SolarPlexus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayno Posted February 21, 2015 #22 Share Posted February 21, 2015 The Central Intelligence Agency. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted February 22, 2015 Author #23 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Here is the LINK again posted earlier by Imaginarynumber1. I have to admit I was so taken in by the picture I totally missed the link... Who these men are remains mostly a mystery. The Soufan Group, a security intelligence firm, has been tracking information from ISIS publications, information from defectors and others to piece together the clearest possible picture of the top leaders in ISIS. FRONTLINE collaborated with them to create this graphic, showing what’s known about where they’re from and what role they play in their newly established caliphate. Some patterns have emerged. Almost all of the Islamic State’s most influential figures are Iraqi; many of them were once Saddam loyalists and several had been detained by the U.S. military in Camp Bucca in Iraq. This is a picture of some of the leaders on the link: there are more...you should really check this out if you haven't. Pretty much answers the question...but I have another one: Why are all of these guys except Omar named Abu? Edited February 22, 2015 by joc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted February 22, 2015 #24 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Pretty much answers the question...but I have another one: Why are all of these guys except Omar named Abu? Abu means "father of", it's a nickname not a real one. It's like 'Father of Bob from Boston'. Omar probably doesn't have any kids. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 22, 2015 #25 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Pretty much answers the question...but I have another one: Why are all of these guys except Omar named Abu? Abu means Father. I'm not sure why it's used in this context,. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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