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joc

Who Is Running ISIS?

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Space Commander Travis

More than being inadequate...because the military doesn't work that way...I think it the training was...incomplete...we had a long way to go with it...that was Bush's whole point...until the Commanders on the ground say...We've got this...these guys are ready to go it alone...then they weren't ready to go it alone...

How long were we in Germany after WWII? I think we still are...or have been most of my life anyway. What was the damn hurry to pull out? Obama is either a complete total idiot...or...he is intentionally doing things to harm America.

So the United States is still in Germany because those Germans still wouldn't be able to organise their own military effectively without Uncle Sam's guidance? The reason they've always been in Germany is because of the Russkie Menace.

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Space Commander Travis

The supporters of those enemies never admit such things joc. They are far more interested in finding fault from some perch of supposed intellectual superiority. It's pointless to waste time trying to convince - I make a statement of my case and spit in their direction any more. When the spam hits the fan those kind of people are going to be the enemy imo. In a civilized world, people can disagree. What's coming ISN'T going to be civilized and they'd do well to remember when that time comes.

Do you realise how much that sounds like a statement of fascist principles? Anyone who doesn't agree with the United States Government is the Enemy. That's exactly how fascism works, everyone must rally behind the State and anyone who questions what the State does is the enemy. A fascist state always has to have an Enemy, of course, a great menace that threatens the very existence of the State, so the entire nation must be mobilised against this menace and everyone must be either For Us or Against Us. The logical extension of that of course is to make sure that the Enemy aren't in a position to be able to do any damage to the State, by pre-emptively collecting them all together and putting them somewhere they can't cause any trouble. The supporters of the State seem to have absolutely no objection to the way it's going, either they can't see it or they can see it but have no objection. What's most notable of all, although you probably can't see this, is that, for all your often voiced hatred of President O, what your criticism of him really amounts to is that he's not fascist enough, not that he's crazed with unrestrained power and is a danger to the world through his strange mixture of cowardice and belligerence.

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and then

Do you realise how much that sounds like a statement of fascist principles? Anyone who doesn't agree with the United States Government is the Enemy. That's exactly how fascism works, everyone must rally behind the State and anyone who questions what the State does is the enemy. A fascist state always has to have an Enemy, of course, a great menace that threatens the very existence of the State, so the entire nation must be mobilised against this menace and everyone must be either For Us or Against Us. The logical extension of that of course is to make sure that the Enemy aren't in a position to be able to do any damage to the State, by pre-emptively collecting them all together and putting them somewhere they can't cause any trouble. The supporters of the State seem to have absolutely no objection to the way it's going, either they can't see it or they can see it but have no objection. What's most notable of all, although you probably can't see this, is that, for all your often voiced hatred of President O, what your criticism of him really amounts to is that he's not fascist enough, not that he's crazed with unrestrained power and is a danger to the world through his strange mixture of cowardice and belligerence.

Your opinion about the statement doesn't matter to me because I've had a coupe of years to see how consistently, almost pathologically, you blame all things on either the west in general or the US specifically. I think you see fascists in your closet. This isn't some esoteric exercise of political discussions any more. The world is fast going to hell in a hand basket and choosing a side to support will be necessary to survive. Of course you don't really believe this is the situation - I gather that you just like to argue and lay blame. But when the bottom finally falls out it'll be quite the surprise for you.
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Phaeton80

Your opinion about the statement doesn't matter to me because I've had a coupe of years to see how consistently, almost pathologically, you blame all things on either the west in general or the US specifically. I think you see fascists in your closet. This isn't some esoteric exercise of political discussions any more. The world is fast going to hell in a hand basket and choosing a side to support will be necessary to survive. Of course you don't really believe this is the situation - I gather that you just like to argue and lay blame. But when the bottom finally falls out it'll be quite the surprise for you.

You label anyone critical of the US, anyone calling you out on your extremist black and white worldview as 'an enemy of the US' or the West as a whole.

Further exemplifying your fanatical position. You know thats how fanatics rationalize their criminal behaviour dont you, 'they are bad and we are good'. Thats you, sir. You are the extremist mindset. You are that which you love to rant against.

Maybe the day will come you will realize the only one you were fooling all along.. is you.

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joc

So the United States is still in Germany because those Germans still wouldn't be able to organise their own military effectively without Uncle Sam's guidance? The reason they've always been in Germany is because of the Russkie Menace.

The sole reason why we should still be in Iraq! Because of the Terroristie Menace. Good job at slam-dunking my point! You Rock! :tu:

Edited by joc
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RoofGardener

........ Because of the Terroristie Menace.........

Is that anything like a Toastie Menace ?

"Could I have three rounds of Cheese Terroristie's please Mabel, and a pot of tea for four ?"

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joc

Is that anything like a Toastie Menace ?

"Could I have three rounds of Cheese Terroristie's please Mabel, and a pot of tea for four ?"

Ha...ha...ahem...no it's like Ruskie....

We should have stayed...Obama pulled out...the chaos of ISIS is his puppy and no one else.

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I wouldn't think 'Islam' as a religion has anything to do with ISIS's expension. What was ISIS before the conflict in Syria? No more than Al-Qaida-Iraq with al-Baghdadi - who was nothing of a caliph - as it's leader. They became the Islamic State by fighting for the rebel side in Syria. Somethings happened in the civil war to allow a branch of Al-Qaida to eventually become an army a la Hezbollah. It's only logical to think that they were given the missing pieces, a boost to grow that was/is fitting somebody's agenda.

Your sarcasm detector needs to be repaired. Also, the fact that you and others here see no connection between Islam and these people is irrelevant. THEY say they do it for Islam - that's enough to make it a real connection.
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Joc,

How can you feel so positive had the american military continued on with the occupation of Iraq that they would be self governing today terrorist free and freedom to the state of the Iraqi people?

Its common knowledge the majority of the iraqi army, the american military trained for years, was a complete failure. What difference would it have made if the american military was still there today training these same guys who obviously didnt take their training serious enough to follow the will of the government in Baghdad once the americans left? This 'trained' army would still be the same guys today. Not sure how you feel it would be any different.

It was inevitable what resulted.

No, it wasn't inevitable. Maliki was a Shiite political hack being run by Iran and we allowed him to stay far beyond what was reasonable. That government was designed to rotate and share power among Kurd, Sunni and Shia. When it became obvious that we were leaving Maliki began sacking the trained General officers and put loyal puppets in place. THAT is the biggest reason the army failed so spectacularly. No group of soldiers, no matter how well they are trained can completely overcome a lack of leadership. They might have failed anyway but it certainly wasn't inevitable.
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NewAge1
Also, the fact that you and others here see no connection between Islam and these people is irrelevant. THEY say they do it for Islam - that's enough to make it a real connection.

Of course they do it in the name of a so call 'Islam', in their perversed view of the Quran but is it truly Allah who gave them the funding, the weapons and geez even the big Military vehicules to parade themselves as an army and claim the name Islamic State? Again, I wouldn't think so. It's time to look at the real reasons behind why these guys, who were previously living in the desert of Iraq and calling themselves Al-Qaida-Iraq rose to become an army in Syria, wreaking havoc in their passage while making the headlines. That they manage to sell dreams to troubled youth in search of opportunities and meaning can hardly be pinned down on the sacred texts of Islam, for one it would be too easy an answer and a disrespect for all those muslims living peacefully around the world.

Edited by samus

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joc

For over 10 years? ??? Really?

These soldiers would still hold the same thoughts no matter what training you give them. What are you willing to do to get them to think like you? What's resulted from the invasion of Iraq happened as predicted and would STILL have happened had the USA stayed the course of occupation. It was a loser from the start.

As though there is a time line for defeating an enemy. This isn't a video game...there isn't a time frame...you win when you win...and as always...if you quit...you LOSE!!! Obama QUIT! He lost the war! He ...no one else...not Bush...not Cheney...not Rumsfeld...Obama prematurely pulled out of a war when he knew what would happen...you can't see it because you are a liberal...hiding behind the cloak of Libertarianism.

Edited by joc
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joc

1984_george_orwell_war_is_peace_zpsvnzvxtkg.png

That could pretty much be the motto of the United States and NATO.

Yeah...I read 1984 as well. It's a novel...this is real life with real players...get a grip.

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joc

Of course they do it in the name of 'Islam', in their perversed view of the Quran but is it truly Allah who gave them the funding, the weapons and geez even the big tanks to parade themselves as an army and claim the name Islamic State? Again, I wouldn't think so. It's time to look at the real reasons why these guys, who were previously living in the desert of Iraq and calling themselves Al-Quaida-Iraq rose to become an army, wreak havoc in their passage and making the headlines.

Yes...and we are...there is a reason...it is because our ...ahem...current President ...told the enemy...You win...we're taking our toys and going home...

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RoofGardener

Greetings.Dr.Falken

A.Strange.Game.

The.Only.Way.To.Win.Is.Not.To.Play.

Wouln't.You.Like.A.Nice.Game.Of.Chess ?

Perhaps Obama is not so daft after all ?

Tell me Joc, what would you define as "winning" in the context of Afghanistan and/or Iraq ? (from the American perspective ?)

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Of course they do it in the name of a so call 'Islam', in their perversed view of the Quran but is it truly Allah who gave them the funding, the weapons and geez even the big Military vehicules to parade themselves as an army and claim the name Islamic State? Again, I wouldn't think so. It's time to look at the real reasons behind why these guys, who were previously living in the desert of Iraq and calling themselves Al-Qaida-Iraq rose to become an army in Syria, wreaking havoc in their passage while making the headlines. That they manage to sell dreams to troubled youth in search of opportunities and meaning can hardly be pinned down on the sacred texts of Islam, for one it would be too easy an answer and a disrespect for all those muslims living peacefully around the world.

I don't advocate for harming a single peaceful individual of any faith. I believe we should be killing these scum with great abandon however. Perhaps you'd care to show the widespread rioting, burning, looting and so on of Muslim communities in the west in revenge for the things these Islamists do? You can't because of course there is NONE.

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joc

Greetings.Dr.Falken

A.Strange.Game.

The.Only.Way.To.Win.Is.Not.To.Play.

Wouln't.You.Like.A.Nice.Game.Of.Chess ?

Perhaps Obama is not so daft after all ?

Tell me Joc, what would you define as "winning" in the context of Afghanistan and/or Iraq ? (from the American perspective ?)

Who exactly is winning by our not playing? That is the question. Winning....securing Iraq and re-training their army...at the same time...allowing the Iraqi people, who know nothing of American Democracy...to experience it long enough to see that they too can be free...that the women are not subservient to the men, that Law and order, and Peace can be had...not at gun point by the Tyrant...but by Democratic rule that has served well the majority of Americans and much of the world for a long, long time.

If we continued to show the Iraqi people...who hung Sadaam, destroyed his statues, through shoes at his pictures, and thanked American soldiers over and over...that we were really there for THEM and that we weren't leaving until their Freedom was secure...that is winning. Same in Afghanistan.

But...alas...our not so daft President, pulled out, left them hanging in the wind, created a situation in which our enemies still hate us...but do not Fear us.

Maybe you don't care about the Iraqi people...in the real world...some of us do. In the real world...Bush did. In the real world...our young men and women did. In the real world...Obama doesn't...because in the real world...Obama is a Communist plant who is setting the stage for Russia to sweep in take Iraq and occupy it...without regard for the Iraqi people. That is the real world my friend.

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NewAge1
Perhaps you'd care to show the widespread rioting, burning, looting and so on of Muslim communities in the west in revenge for the things these Islamists do? You can't because of course there is NONE.

And why should they be held responsible for what extremists and terrorists perverting ancient religious texts are doing in the Middle-East and Africa? That is not their religion, they will be the first to tell you. Why should they feeld the need to respond to craziness with madness? I think they just want to be left alone and live their lives as anyone else. Are they not entitled to?

That being said, they have denounced and condemned these horrific and pointless acts of violence of many occasions.

A few exemple:

http://www.beliefnet...hink-again.html

http://o.canada.com/...backlash-533632

http://www.wsj.com/a...rope-1420654885

http://www.calgaryhe...1875/story.html

http://www.globalres...mn-isis/5397364

http://www.theguardi...remist-violence

http://www.beliefnet...hink-again.html

Edited by samus

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and then

As I said - you cannot show examples of mistreatment of average Muslims for what the radicals are doing, yet any time the acts of those radicals are discussed we immediately hear the cry of THAT'S NOT ISLAM!!!! As though anyone is punishing them for it. It's an empty rhetorical device to misdirect the attention from those doing the atrocities. If we promise only to kill those who are shooting at us would that be enough? I doubt it...after all they don't speak for ISLAM...whatevs...

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kartikg

More than being inadequate...because the military doesn't work that way...I think it the training was...incomplete...we had a long way to go with it...that was Bush's whole point...until the Commanders on the ground say...We've got this...these guys are ready to go it alone...then they weren't ready to go it alone...

How long were we in Germany after WWII? I think we still are...or have been most of my life anyway. What was the damn hurry to pull out? Obama is either a complete total idiot...or...he is intentionally doing things to harm America.

Somebody answered that Obama did what he promised during elections. Is he idiot? I think the mothers , wives of deployed might think of him as a man who bought their loved ones back from a war . I repeat general public a majority do not care who is killing whom in Iraq and Syria. Seriously just think have Americans stopped partying, stopped their day to day business over this. Obama just gave what Americans wanted.

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Mikolaj

Pal aren't you forgetting something?

Bin Laden was created by CIA

Yes to defened Afghanistan. No one denied that.

"Lets remember here, the people we are fighting today- we funded it. ....They (Soviets) invaded Afghanistan. And we did not want see them (Soviets) control central asia....It led to collapse of Soviet union. ...We stop dealing with ISI. " Hilary Clinton

Its common knowledge. Historical fact. So?

You are forgetting something. Historical context.

Long live USA. 6.gif

Without USA world would be worst place. They are light! They stoped many wars. They protected innocent. They defended many ethnic groups.

I adore American spirit because they were always for underdogs. Home of the brave, indeed.

While people in Rwanda died it was not Russia or EU who stoped war. It was USA.

When Bosniaks were bleeding it was not EU or Russia who stoped massacres. It was USA.

edit: after what I read on this forum I decided to put Captain America smiley in my signature. I will never removed it from now on.

People here dont see how America is great land. Im not American. But if needed I would die for USA. Simple as that. Without USA we would face apocalypse.

Do USA have issues? Ofcourse. Dozens. But with all those issues they still have guts to protect ones who needs them the most.

EU hands are tied due internal division. China just wait her moment. And Russia abuse fact that EU is divided. Its only USA who bring light to the darkness.

They are not perfect. But they are only one trying. Ofcourse with their allies. Germany mostly. Japan.

France play game. Same as Brittish. France is jelaous of Brittish USA links and because USA choose Germany as prime ally in Europe.

France think they need to be the one. So they play games with Russia. Just to annoy USA and Germany.

Spain is also a BIG player. Only for own interests. Birttish, Norwegian, Swedish, Dutch klan also is united for own interests but ignoring peoples will about destiny they decide.

If you need help who you gonna call? China? Russia? Italy? Spain? Swedes? Norwegians? Dutch?...please.

Like Brasil and India and China and Russia give a f##k about people dying in Africa or Balkan or middle east.

You will go to USA! Iran will not help you. Or Brasil. Or China. USA is here only to help. So show some respect.

ca.gif

This shield isnt just science fiction. Its hard core fact!

Edited by Mikolaj
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regeneratia

I think it is a joint effort by the CIA, the Saudi princes and Israel.

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Mikolaj

I think it is a joint effort by the CIA, the Saudi princes and Israel.

Based on what you have that opinion?

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regeneratia

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regeneratia

http://www.syrianperspective.com/2014/08/isis-and-the-game-nobody-can-play-neo-cons-in-wonderland.html

I know there is propaganda in this site. But there is not a country out there that does not use propaganda on it's citizens, including the USA. This has what I intuitively gnow since the rise of IS.

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