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Who Is Running ISIS?

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NewAge1

I think that IS, despisedly called ISIS, is sponsored by the governments of Saudi Arabia, Israel, and the USA.

I personally wouldn't go as far as saying that the US-CIA purposedly sponsored ISIL but I think that many of the so call ''moderates'' provided with arms and various equipements turned their cloaks and joined the extremist groups, probably because they were better financed and armed (wealthy Gulf donors) and had more chance to snatch territories overall.

Which is why the ''moderate'' rebel opposition collapsed, and that the US and Turkey have now decided to supervise the training of fresh recruits and will assist them on the battlefield.

Edited by samus

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Professor Buzzkill

Who is running ISIS:

Listen to Ron Paul discuss new evidence that the media isn't covering for some reason. Mentions John McCain meeting "The big Bagdadhi"

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Professor Buzzkill

I personally wouldn't go as far as saying that the US-CIA purposedly sponsored ISIL but I think that many of the so call ''moderates'' provided with arms and various equipements turned their cloaks and joined the extremist groups, probably because they were better financed and armed (wealthy Gulf donors) and had more chance to snatch territories overall.

Which is why the ''moderate'' rebel opposition collapsed, and that the US and Turkey have now decided to supervise the training of fresh recruits.

The link i posted showed that the US knew these guys were not moderates. When your country is run by the military industrial complex, you need an enemy. Where there is no enemy, you create one. Remember Assad? He was going to be the enemy, now the US is stopping him from bombing ISIS by declaring his country a "no fly zone"

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Space Commander Travis

The link i posted showed that the US knew these guys were not moderates. When your country is run by the military industrial complex, you need an enemy. Where there is no enemy, you create one. Remember Assad? He was going to be the enemy, now the US is stopping him from bombing ISIS by declaring his country a "no fly zone"

No no, it's to protect the Moderate Rebels from ISIS's formidable air force.

:unsure:

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Br Cornelius

I personally wouldn't go as far as saying that the US-CIA purposedly sponsored ISIL but I think that many of the so call ''moderates'' provided with arms and various equipements turned their cloaks and joined the extremist groups, probably because they were better financed and armed (wealthy Gulf donors) and had more chance to snatch territories overall.

Which is why the ''moderate'' rebel opposition collapsed, and that the US and Turkey have now decided to supervise the training of fresh recruits and will assist them on the battlefield.

There is ample evidence to show that they new that they were backing rebels who would become ISIL, and that they even anticipated the formation of Islamic State as a consequence. Whats you have said is the official explanation for what happened from the USA-CIA, which doesn't match the facts.

Br Cornelius

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timeskipper

I just want to say this for the record and leave it alone... If people have been coming in and out of this country for years, and there has only been minimal control on who comes and goes and when.... Would that leave the possibility to suggest that ISIS could also be here in America in different cities and states waiting to plot an attack? I am not sure of their full agenda. I don't think it is right in any way, shape, size or form to kill anyone.That's not the purpose of mankind in my opinion. There is always a reason why people get angry and cause these types of things. I know, power...money...control, etc... Regardless of who has what resource, I think every nation should compromise and utilize solving the core problem before creating one for innocent people. I watched a video that Steven Greer did a while back and he made some great points about the whole war over oil and what not. Governments have technology ....well been had the technology for years that basically would make the need or use for certain natural resources unnecessary. Social media fuels so much these days. I would sit down with every leader, roll some good medicinal herb, pass it around and politic the right way. That's just a metaphor. Who's interest are these decisions really benefiting at the end of the day? We are a nation divided. I bet if all hell broke lose, it would be every man and family for themselves. I would share the last cup of water on earth with you and we would die together as oppose to drinking it all selfishly and die alone. All I am saying is, we are worried about the wrong things nowadays. There is a way that everyone can sit at the table and have a decent meal and then some to be satisfied, but we are too worried about who cooked it and what ingredients are in it. Gluteny is a sin and somebody has a really big appetite.

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bee

Who is running ISIS:

[video snipped]

Listen to Ron Paul discuss new evidence that the media isn't covering for some reason. Mentions John McCain meeting "The big Bagdadhi"

Thanks for that video - it seems that Ron Paul can always be relied upon for a sensible, honest and intelligent point of view -

Without going back and listening to it again - I don't think John McCain was said to have met with Bagdadhi specifically -

But anyway -

I'm just about sick of all the anti-Russia nonsense - I would choose Russia over Saudi Arabia and the '''Islamic State'' any day -

I don't think Russia threatens me or the West or America in any way if only they would be treated with the respect they deserve -

Where as - I do feel that Saudi Arabia and it's promotion and financing of terrorism and the Islamic State IS a threat to me

and the West -

It's just getting too ridiculous and pathetic ....not to mention heartless and cruel - that all those people's lives have been ruined

in Iraq, Libya, Syria - for this fantasy of gaining supremacy over Russia - and getting that pipe through Syria -

FFS - enough is enough - the leaders who are responsible for facilitating the chaos and destruction and the ruined lives that

has come from pointless and dangerous political and military meddling - - In the Middle East and North Africa - should just

give it a rest and retire - and let some leaders with honour who are trustworthy take over - before it's too late -

[rant over]

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Phaeton80

Some views on the contextual landscape before, during and after the emergence of ISIL.

Edited by Phaeton80
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Phaeton80

Just ran across this one, being a great insight into the situation I thought it needed to be added:

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Space Commander Travis

Just ran across this one, being a great insight into the situation I thought it needed to be added:

Just taking the liberty of taking out the "s" from "https" so people can see what it is. An interesting variety of uniforms there, that's for sure.

Edited by Norbert Dentressangle

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Phaeton80

Just taking the liberty of taking out the "s" from "https" so people can see what it is. An interesting variety of uniforms there, that's for sure.

Apologies, didnt want to flood the thread with vids..

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NewAge1

There is ample evidence to show that they new that they were backing rebels who would become ISIL, and that they even anticipated the formation of Islamic State as a consequence. Whats you have said is the official explanation for what happened from the USA-CIA, which doesn't match the facts.

Except that it doesn't make much sense for the US to fund and arm branches of Al-Qaeda. They have been hunting and degrading this organization for more than a decade, ever since the 2001 Afghan war. Would they've thrown all of their efforts down the drain, only in the hope of weakening Assad? That seems doubtful.

I think it more likely that the US placed their bet on the Free Syrian Army, the Turkish-created fraction considered ''moderates''. But they didn't prevailed, the fanatics and zealots were growing in numbers and ressources; as a result many FSA fighters turned their cloaks to join either the ISIL or Al-Nusra boat.

I am more with General Wesley Clark on this, I think ISIL is first and foremost a Gulf project, an attempt by our regional alllies to create a strong Sunnis counterforce to Hezbollah. It soon grew out of control, however, spread into Iraq hence the Frankenstein monster we hear about everyday in the news.

Edited by samus

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Hammerclaw

Middle Eastern nations have arbitrary borders, drawn by European powers and have always been held together by the peace of the gun, wielded by strongmen governments. We demonized Saddam, Gadaffi and Mubarak, cheered as they were removed from power and tried to do the same with Assad and witness the result. Chaos, and the Abomination known as ISIL rises from the ashes. Putin was right. Better the devils we knew than the ones we don't.

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NewAge1

Middle Eastern nations have arbitrary borders, drawn by European powers and have always been held together by the peace of the gun, wielded by strongmen governments. We demonized Saddam, Gadaffi and Mubarak, cheered as they were removed from power and tried to do the same with Assad and witness the result. Chaos, and the Abomination known as ISIL rises from the ashes. Putin was right. Better the devils we knew than the ones we don't.

I think we need to choose between helping the Syrian regime or let the Islamic State take over. Assad may be a dictator, but certainly cannot be as bad as the jhiadists. We can worry later about the politics, hoping Russia and Iran manage to negotiate a transition of power or something to ensure a lasting peace, once this mess has been cleaned and the extremists defeated.

Edited by samus
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Professor Buzzkill

I think we need to choose between helping the Syrian regime or let the Islamic State take over. Assad may be a dictator, but certainly cannot be as bad as the jhiadists. We can worry later about the politics, hoping Russia and Iran manage to negogiate a transition of power or something for a long lasting peace, once this mess has been cleaned and the extremists defeated.

So in your opinion, why is the US creating a no-fly zone in Syria? ISIS does not have an airforce and are on the receiving end of air strikes. It is a blatant effort to support ISIS, who have already been funded and armed by the US. Once again you wish to believe that it was all incompetence, rather than by design, as if that makes it more acceptable. 9/11 failures- incompetence, Iraq war false WMD evidence- incompetence, Assad falsely accused of using WMD's - incompetence. It's unbelievable that people can buy this crap and still believe that the govt represents them and not corporate interests that profit from wars (be they illegal or not).

Edit to add: just google search "McCain meets Bagdhahi" and check out all the images which discredit your "we only armed moderates" post. I have posted the photo's here before, but they get removed by the mods for copyright infringement

Edited by Professor Buzzkill
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NewAge1
So in your opinion, why is the US creating a no-fly zone in Syria? ISIS does not have an airforce and are on the receiving end of air strikes.

There isn't any no-fly zone over Syria. This is Turkey's idea to deal with Assad but the US doesn't think it's essential, since as you said the rebels have no air power.. All I know is that the international coallition is pounding ISIL's positions in Nothern Syria where the Syrian Army lost all control and doesn't have any air defense system covering the area.

The Syrian Army's air force capabilities are very limited and focused around Damascus, where the coallition does not intervene.

15 Mai 2015,

US: Syrian No-Fly Zone Not 'Viable Option':

Link: http://www.aa.com.tr...t-viable-option

Edited by samus

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President-Elect Acidhead

I think we need to choose between helping the Syrian regime or let the Islamic State take over. Assad may be a dictator, but certainly cannot be as bad as the jhiadists. We can worry later about the politics, hoping Russia and Iran manage to negotiate a transition of power or something to ensure a lasting peace, once this mess has been cleaned and the extremists defeated.

It's not a question of choosing to side in a foreign conflict. This is what has brought the Syrian regime to resort to military tactics to protect its national interests inside the borders of its country. Intervention created the mess by arming the so-called rebels in the first place. The only policy foreign nations should be persuing is establishing through international economic organizations the who how why and when monetary exchanges are occurring allowing the so-called ISIL to recruit and remain relevant. Once the flow of currency is curbed and stopped it will all come to a grinding halt. Its not rocket science how to defeat any rise of any State especially this group in its enfancy.

Edited by acidhead
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President-Elect Acidhead

Who is running ISIS:

Listen to Ron Paul discuss new evidence that the media isn't covering for some reason.

This has to rank up there as the most dusturbing information Ive ever heard in my life. Knowingly giving weapons to foreigners in an attempt to overthrow a foreign nations GOV by a GOV which preaches humanitarian BS daily through means of private interests masked and sold as national interests back home. A GOV which spies on its own citizens at home, as a pathetic excuse for protecting freedom, while interfering in the freedom of a foreign nations domestic policies abroad by arming the so-called opposition. Its lunatic psychotic behaviour. And the death toll in Syria and also Iraq... what is it now???? Does anybody even know??? Is it relevant to our daily lives how many deaths have been attributed through the intervention of our GOV's recently and continuing right this second???? Its absolutely mind boggling this us allowed to occur today.

Edited by acidhead
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and then

This has to rank up there as the most dusturbing information Ive ever heard in my life. Knowingly giving weapons to foreigners in an attempt to overthrow a foreign nations GOV by a GOV which preaches humanitarian BS daily through means of private interests masked and sold as national interests back home. A GOV which spies on its own citizens at home, as a pathetic excuse for protecting freedom, while interfering in the freedom of a foreign nations domestic policies abroad by arming the so-called opposition. Its lunatic psychotic behaviour. And the death toll in Syria and also Iraq... what is it now???? Does anybody even know??? Is it relevant to our daily lives how many deaths have been attributed through the intervention of our GOV's recently and continuing right this second???? Its absolutely mind boggling this us allowed to occur today.

How do you propose the average citizen help to stop it? Seriously, other than voting, what else can a citizen DO? This whole mess in the M.E. has gotten so bizarre lately that it seems impossible to figure who's killing who and for what reason. Blaming one entity or another may be satisfying to an extent but it doesn't change anything. We seem to be heading toward a pre-planned regional (or greater) war. That's the craziest part of all... who benefits from something so destructive that it could actually spin into a nuke exchange?
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Space Commander Travis

How do you propose the average citizen help to stop it? Seriously, other than voting, what else can a citizen DO? This whole mess in the M.E. has gotten so bizarre lately that it seems impossible to figure who's killing who and for what reason. Blaming one entity or another may be satisfying to an extent but it doesn't change anything. We seem to be heading toward a pre-planned regional (or greater) war. That's the craziest part of all... who benefits from something so destructive that it could actually spin into a nuke exchange?

The Rumsfeld/Cheney/Clinton (H.) clique (enthusiastically assisted by McCain, Kerry etc) that's been what's been driving US foreign policy ever since Al Qaeda so conveniently gave them just the opportunity they were looking for to intervene militarily wherever they liked .... Honestly, when you look at that crowd, and the sheer malevolence that radiates from them, and Clinton H. in particular, it's enough to make a conspiracy theorist of anyone. Edited by Norbert Dentressangle

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bee

Edit to add: just google search "McCain meets Bagdhahi" and check out all the images which discredit your "we only armed moderates" post. I have posted the photo's here before, but they get removed by the mods for copyright infringement

Is this is the photo you are talking about - in this video...?

If so I think it's hard to say whether that was Baghdadi -

Heaven knows I'm not going to spend time defending McCain over all this - but - we have enough to go on without

stretching things even further - enough military and moral incompetence to ask questions about what the hell are

the US, Britain, France et al up to... when the taxpayers are conned into funding military campaigns that benefit those

who openly threaten us with terrorism in our own countries and appear to be financed and aided by rich Gulf countries -

mainly Saudi Arabia -

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bee

How do you propose the average citizen help to stop it? Seriously, other than voting, what else can a citizen DO? This whole mess in the M.E. has gotten so bizarre lately that it seems impossible to figure who's killing who and for what reason. Blaming one entity or another may be satisfying to an extent but it doesn't change anything. We seem to be heading toward a pre-planned regional (or greater) war. That's the craziest part of all... who benefits from something so destructive that it could actually spin into a nuke exchange?

Hi 'and then' - - -

re underlined - the video in post 208 that Phaeton80 presented was informative - (if you didn't see it already)

and I agree that blaming whoever doesn't change anything but prominent Western leaders (past and present)

like Bush, Obama, Blair, Cameron, Sarcozy etc - - - still have questions to answer regarding their part in

the destruction of Iraq, Libya and Syria - that allowed the present situation to develop - and facilitated the rise

of the '''Islamic State''' and widened the threat of Islamic terrorism in Western Countries -

And on top of all that they appear to be working hard to make an active enemy of Russia - :wacko:

And yeah - the only way in reality to sack the lot of them is through voting and we all know how imperfect and

complicated all that can get -

.

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Br Cornelius

People keep saying incompetence and it makes my blood boil. You are buying into the lie that they didn't plan and anticipate everything that is going on.

The US is working to secure access to its oil interests and remove opposition to its foreign policy objective. It's a very cheap war to finance terrorists and they have long standing form for doing so in all corners of the world. There is almost no threat to real American assets at home so it perfectly fine to destabilize a whole region and then just mop up after - they have been doing exactly that for at least 70years at this stage.

Israel is facilitating the on the ground logistics and monitoring who's really doing what. they get rid of their main enemy Assad and weaken Iran in the process.

These psychopaths have shown to many times that they do not care a jot how many people die in order to secure their interests so seeing their activities through your own morally driven world view is just missing the reality of what we are actually dealing with here. There is a clique who really want to rule the world and will do anything to achieve that objective. The ME is just a small staging post.

PS - Russia has to be drawn into this because if the Russians and BRIC countries succeed in establishing an alternative reserve currency then the game is really up for the Globalists in America. Its end game time for America - win this skirmish or hang up your boots and leave the field. In light of this they are desperate enough to attaempt anything to hold back the threat posed by the BRIC's even to the extent of sending NATO into direct battle with Russia and China.

Everything that has happened since Iraq is logically inevitable in light of this since both Iraq and Libya both threatened to dump the Dollar before they were destroyed.

These are not normal people and cannot be judged by normal moral standards.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
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bee

People keep saying incompetence and it makes my blood boil. You are buying into the lie that they didn't plan and anticipate everything that is going on.

The US is working to secure access to its oil interests and remove opposition to its foreign policy objective. It's a very cheap war to finance terrorists and they have long standing form for doing so in all corners of the world. There is almost no threat to real American assets at home so it perfectly fine to destabilize a whole region and then just mop up after - they have been doing exactly that for at least 70years at this stage.

re underlined..

Ron Paul brought up that point in the video earlier in the thread that it wasn't incompetence/stupidity but strategy...

Can we entertain the possibility that it is a FAILED strategy - - and now there are red faces all round...?

For example - how far do they think a Western controlled Oil Pipeline would get with the Islamic State dominating Syria..?

It would get blown up in no time - even if it got built...

Israel is facilitating the on the ground logistics and monitoring who's really doing what. they get rid of their main enemy Assad and weaken Iran in the process.

I'm not sure how you know that Israel is doing what you have said above..?

And I would think that for Israel an Assad lead Syria would be preferable to the Islamic State attacking them...

Which would happen if (and when) they seize enough land and get enough fighters - who can't wait to martyr

themselves to kill Jews...especially Jews in their Homeland...

These psychopaths have shown to many times that they do not care a jot how many people die in order to secure their interests so seeing their activities through your own morally driven world view is just missing the reality of what we are actually dealing with here. There is a clique who really want to rule the world and will do anything to achieve that objective. The ME is just a small staging post.

There are 'psychopaths' the world over succumbing to the effects of excessive testosterone :) ....and the corruption that comes

with wealth and power...

and the most stupid thing of all - - - that there are now new technologies that could replace oil ...but are being supressed....

duh

.

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bee

PS - Russia has to be drawn into this because if the Russians and BRIC countries succeed in establishing an alternative reserve currency then the game is really up for the Globalists in America. Its end game time for America - win this skirmish or hang up your boots and leave the field. In light of this they are desperate enough to attaempt anything to hold back the threat posed by the BRIC's even to the extent of sending NATO into direct battle with Russia and China.

Everything that has happened since Iraq is logically inevitable in light of this since both Iraq and Libya both threatened to dump the Dollar before they were destroyed.

These are not normal people and cannot be judged by normal moral standards.

Br Cornelius

I made the other reply before you did your edit -

I take the additional points you have made above - it looks like those who are used to massive amounts of wealth and power

in the US - aren't going to go down without a struggle - no matter how ridiculous and ultimately self defeating the strategy - - -???

edit - - but are we also talking about the American economy potentially crashing - and does this bring us back

to the Petro Dollar and high light the influence Saudi Arabia has over America - and why Saudi Arabia looks

like it is being given a free pass to finance and drive the Global Islamic Militant Jihad - (and create the Islamic State..?)

.

.

Edited by bee

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