Obama threatened to shoot down Israel jets

[Occult1]

Breaking news:

''President Obama is alleged to have stopped an Israeli military attack against Iran's nuclear facilities in 2014 by threatening to shoot down Israeli jets before they could reach their targets, according to reports to emerge from the Middle East at the weekend

The threat from the U.S. forced Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu to abort a planned attack on Iraq, reported Kuwaiti newspaper Al-Jarida.

[...]

The report claimed that an unnamed Israeli minister who has good ties with the US administration revealed the attack plan to Secretary of State John Kerry, and that Obama then threatened to shoot down the Israeli jets before they could reach their targets in Iran.

Al-Jarida quoted "well-placed" sources as saying that Netanyahu, along with Minister of Defense Moshe Yaalon, and then-Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman, had decided to carry out airstrikes against Iran's nuclear program after consultations with top security commanders.''

Source: http://www.dailymail...im-sources.html

I think that may answer your question, and then. If the report is factual, then clearly the Obama administration won't let Israel strikes Iran for ideological reasons. Obviously the Iran nuclear scare still is only a pretext for Bibi to attack and weaken his old ennemy Iran. He doesn't want any deal that could help reestablish diplomatic ties with Iran and the West. But I think all of our lawmakers are not foolish enough not to see through it.

Edited March 2, 2015 by samus

[+and-then]

Breaking news:

''President Obama is alleged to have stopped an Israeli military attack against Iran's nuclear facilities in 2014 by threatening to shoot down Israeli jets before they could reach their targets, according to reports to emerge from the Middle East at the weekend

The threat from the U.S. forced Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu to abort a planned attack on Iraq, reported Kuwaiti newspaper Al-Jarida.

[...]

The report claimed that an unnamed Israeli minister who has good ties with the US administration revealed the attack plan to Secretary of State John Kerry, and that Obama then threatened to shoot down the Israeli jets before they could reach their targets in Iran.

Al-Jarida quoted "well-placed" sources as saying that Netanyahu, along with Minister of Defense Moshe Yaalon, and then-Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman, had decided to carry out airstrikes against Iran's nuclear program after consultations with top security commanders.''

Source: http://www.dailymail...im-sources.html

I think that answers you question, and then. The Obama administration won't let Israel strikes Iran for ideological reasons. Obviously the Iran nuclear scare still is only a pretext for Bibi to attack and weaken his old ennemy Iran. He doesn't want any deal that could help reestablish diplomatic ties with Iran and the West. But I think all of our lawmakers are not foolish enough not to see through it.

I have seen this report which is denied by Obama's people. Even if true it would not stop Israel from striking if they truly feel desperate. They have sub launched missiles as well as Jericho 3's more than capable of inflicting very serious damage on Iran. For that matter, the only reason Israel would attempt a unilateral strike would be out of DESPERATION. That alone is the answer since losing pilots would be expected. Obama is a son of a b**** and will reap his due reward in time. No doubt in my mind on that score.

[Mr.United_Nations]

Israel has no proof whatssoever, they got ignored by the international community many times and they will continue to ignore Israel for the right reasons. No one wants a war. Iran is backed by China, Russia and North Korea

[Occult1]

I have seen this report which is denied by Obama's people.

I've just seen that on the Washington Times as well, a Senior Administration said that it's 'totally false''. Here's the article: http://www.washingto...sraeli-warplan/

But even if it's true, I don't think they would tell us out-front. Espeically not with Bibi in visit to the US congress!

For that matter, the only reason Israel would attempt a unilateral strike would be out of DESPERATION. That alone is the answer since losing pilots would be expected. Obama is a son of a b**** and will reap his due reward in time. No doubt in my mind on that score.

I don't buy that. Preventive airstrikes by Israel against nuclear facilities would not be unprecedented. They have done it in the past. Just take the 1981 strikes against the Osiraq reactor in Iraq. Or the aistrikes against Syria in 2007. The Syrian air defense were actually much more robust than what Iran can actually claim to protect it's nuclear sites!

Edited March 2, 2015 by samus

[Space Commander Travis]

Does sound like some sort of misinformation designed to stir up mischief. I don't recall there being many repercussions when they did it against Syria in '07 (and, as I remarked before, perhaps in view of subsequent events they did everyone a favour).

[Occult1]

I don't recall there being many repercussions when they did it against Syria in '07 (and, as I remarked before, perhaps in view of subsequent events they did everyone a favour).

But it was the Bush administration in '07, not Obama's. And we know the Bush doctrine of pre-emptive military action. I doubt he would disagree with Israel for that which he has done himself, even based on false intelligence.

From a 2007 Guardian article:

"There wasn't a lot of debate about the evidence," said one American official, described as being familiar with US-Israeli talks on the issue. "There was a lot of debate about how to respond to it."

It is not clear whether the Bush administration gave a green light to the attack. The US secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, and the secretary of defence, Robert Gates, are both reported to have voiced concerns about the impact of a pre-emptive threat against a site that was many years from completion and therefore not an urgent threat.

Source: http://www.theguardi...15/syria.israel

Obviously Israel does not only attempt unilateral strikes out of ''desperation'' as and then claim, these were preventive strikes, probably intended as a show of power aimed at Iran. At least that's the way I see it.

Edited March 2, 2015 by samus

[+OverSword]

Sounds like opposite land. The USA defending Iran against Israel? What is going on here?

[Space Commander Travis]

It is quite an interesting hypothetical question; who would come out on top in USAF or USN against the Heyl Ha'Avir? Have the USAF become complacent after so many years bombing against virtually zero opposition? For that matter,how much actual combat experience has the Israeli air force had recently? When was the last time they saw any actual combat?

But I still say that it all sounds like mischief-making designed yet again to undermine the Big O, perhaps another of those PR stunts that Bibi is so fond of, like in Paris.

[DefenceMinisterMishkin]

Obama should threaten to mind his own business for once! Lol

[+and-then]

I've just seen that on the Washington Times as well, a Senior Administration said that it's 'totally false''. Here's the article: http://www.washingto...sraeli-warplan/

But even if it's true, I don't think they would tell us out-front. Espeically not with Bibi in visit to the US congress!

I don't buy that. Preventive airstrikes by Israel against nuclear facilities would not be unprecedented. They have done it in the past. Just take the 1981 strikes against the Osiraq reactor in Iraq. Or the aistrikes against Syria in 2007. The Syrian air defense were actually much more robust than what Iran can actually claim to protect it's nuclear sites!

The situation with Iran is crucially different in that they have much more ability to retaliate and start a general regional war. The Israeli leadership is far from being stupid. They are like any other nation in that they will do whatever they can for advantage but they would not risk bringing down the fire unless they had no other choice. It seems not to occur to those who are against Israel that they - despite the calculations of others - might actually BELIEVE they are existentially threatened. The fact that others reject this really doesn't matter in the final analysis since Israel will strike at the point it feels it must and the consequences will be dealt with later. Truthfully, those consequences hardly could be worse than having a determined blood enemy with nukes and agents surrounding them ready to help destroy the "little Satan".

eta: IF Obama actually did attack those jets, the democrat party would impeach him. No doubt about it.

Edited March 2, 2015 by and then

[RavenHawk]

Sounds like misinformation put out by the Obama Administration prior to the Bibi appearance in Congress.

[+and-then]

Sounds like misinformation put out by the Obama Administration prior to the Bibi appearance in Congress.

They ARE running around like someone with their hair on fire, aren't they? Even Basset hound Kerry is threatening Netanyahu if he actually tells the details of the deal. Imagine that a moment. A US Sec State threatening an ally for telling the truth to Congress.

[RavenHawk]

Imagine that a moment. A US Sec State threatening an ally for telling the truth to Congress.

That’s the confusing part of this. How is Congress going to know what truth looks like? It would have been better for the Administration to just stay silent.

[Bavarian Raven]

I thought one nuclear power wasn't suppose to attack another. that aside , something sounds fishy to me.

[RavenHawk]

I thought one nuclear power wasn't suppose to attack another. that aside , something sounds fishy to me.

There’s no rules that says that, but that is what Iran wants to do to Israel. Does anyone think that Iran cares for the lives of Arabs?

[+and-then]

I thought one nuclear power wasn't suppose to attack another. that aside , something sounds fishy to me.

With the Obama administration you have a veritable smorgasbord of possibilities to choose from for that odor. The report is probably false since even HE can't be allowed to do such long term damage to his party. They'd have to draw a line somewhere and attacking Israel would be the place.

[Occult1]

There's no rules that says that, but that is what Iran wants to do to Israel. Does anyone think that Iran cares for the lives of Arabs?

Proof? Israel doesn't want another country in the ME with nuclear capabilities. Period. Even if Iran never threatened to ''wipe Israel off the map''.

Israeli Deputy Prime Minister Dan Meridor acknowledged on Al Jazeera English (4/14/12) that Iranian leaders have never called for Israel to be "wiped" off the map.

Meridor agreed with interviewer Teymoor Nabili's suggestion that the supposed remarks were never actually made; Iranian leaders, Meridor said,

come basically ideologically, religiously, with the statement that Israel is an unnatural creature, it will not survive. They didn't say "we'll wipe it out," you are right, but [that] it will not survive, it is a cancerous tumor, it should be removed.

Source: http://fair.org/blog...el-off-the-map/

Iran has criticized many times the crimes against humanity done to Palestinians and suggested that a new regime should be put in place in Israel which would treat all of it's people equally. Is that a threat? I don't think so.

A Iranian regime that can counterbalance Israel militarily would put pressure on them to restor Palestinian's rights once and for all. Of course Bibi doesn't want that.

Edited March 2, 2015 by samus

[RavenHawk]

Proof? Israel doesn't want another country in the ME with nuclear capabilities. Period. Even if Iran never threatened to ''wipe Israel off the map''.

That is only partially true. Israel doesn’t want a nation bent on its destruction in the ME to have nuclear capabilities. To do so is like giving a child a book of matches and told to go play in a library.

come basically ideologically, religiously, with the statement that Israel is an unnatural creature, it will not survive. They didn't say "we'll wipe it out," you are right, but [that] it will not survive, it is a cancerous tumor, it should be removed.

First of all, what nation is more natural than Israel? Secondly, cancerous tumors must be cut out or they will thrive. So if this is the Muslim way of thinking, Israel must be cut out. That sounds like wiping out to me. Israel cannot survive without its regime. Israel’s regime is strong enough to stand up against the Muslim world and all their threats.

Iran has critized many times the crimes against humanity done to Palestinians

Well, how ‘bout the crimes against humanity that Iran has done to her own women? How ‘bout the crimes against humanity that the Fellahin has committed against Israel? When will you realize that Iran uses the plight of the Fellahin as an excuse? If Iran decides to launch against Israel, they will have no concern about the lives of the Fellahin.

and suggested that a new regime should be put in place in Israel which would treat all of it's people equally. Is that a threat? I don't think so.

Then you do not understand the Muslim way of thinking. What form does this new regime take? It should allow Sharia Law? Sharia Law is incompatible with Democracy. So that means that Democracy must go so as to treat its people equally. Then with Democracy gone, the Jew will have to live under Dhimmitude. Then I guess everyone will then be happy. Is that it? There’s a better way. Insure that Democracy survives which means that the Fellahin need to become completely loyal to Israel. And I don’t think that teaching their children to kill Jews is going to accomplish that.

A Iranian regime that can counterbalance Israel militarily would put pressure on them to restor Palestinian's rights once and for all. Of course Bibi doesn't want that.

Of course Bibi doesn’t want that and anybody who can see through Muslim dishonesty wouldn’t want it either. The Fellahin are just a weapon that Iran can use against Israel. What Israeli proxies have been active in neighboring nations or have actually caused governments to collapse? Iran supports Hezbollah and Hamas to attack Israel. Iran supports Syria to invade Lebanon and back Hezbollah. Iran supports an al-Qaeda group to destabilize the Yemeni government. Doesn’t it stand to reason that Iran is probably working on infiltrating Jordan and the Emirates? What kind of influence is it exporting to Turkey and Afghanistan?

[Occult1]

First of all, what nation is more natural than Israel? Secondly, cancerous tumors must be cut out or they will thrive. So if this is the Muslim way of thinking, Israel must be cut out. That sounds like wiping out to me. Israel cannot survive without its regime. Israel's regime is strong enough to stand up against the Muslim world and all their threats.

A State that fails to recognize the fundamental rights of the Palestinian people - currently living under a sort of apartheid system - seems unatural to me. And I believe that is what the Iranians are saying. The Israel's regime shows no sign of changing it's course, prefering to kill ever more palestinians instead of settling the issue once and for all by restoring their legitimate rights. This is where the desease lies.

Well, how 'bout the crimes against humanity that Iran has done to her own women? How 'bout the crimes against humanity that the Fellahin has committed against Israel? When will you realize that Iran uses the plight of the Fellahin as an excuse? If Iran decides to launch against Israel, they will have no concern about the lives of the Fellahin.

If anything, it just proves that Israel is no better than it's neighbors in the Middle-East when it comes to human rights.

Then you do not understand the Muslim way of thinking. What form does this new regime take? It should allow Sharia Law? Sharia Law is incompatible with Democracy. So that means that Democracy must go so as to treat its people equally. Then with Democracy gone, the Jew will have to live under Dhimmitude. Then I guess everyone will then be happy. Is that it? There's a better way. Insure that Democracy survives which means that the Fellahin need to become completely loyal to Israel. And I don't think that teaching their children to kill Jews is going to accomplish that.

Liberal democracy in Israel is an illusion. It might better be called 'ethnic democracy'. It's discrimation of ethnic minorities, restrictions of free speech ect. put it in the same league than other developping democracies such as Turkey or Tunesia. In Israel, there are the 'Jews' and the 'other second-class citizens'. The latest Nationality Bill only confirmed that.(1)

(1): http://www.nytimes.c...cracy.html?_r=0

Edited March 2, 2015 by samus

[RavenHawk]

A State that fails to recognize the fundamental rights of the Palestinian people, currently living under a system of apartheid, seems unatural to me.

Why limit it to just the Fellahin? Why not apply it to all non Muslim peoples living in Muslim nations?

And I believe that is what the Iranians are saying. The Israel's regime shows no sign of changing it's course, prefering to kill ever more palestinians instead of settling the issue once and for all. This is where the desease lies.

Well then, maybe if the Fellahin would raise their children not to hate Jews, not base their constitution on the premise to kill Jews and the destruction of Israel, not launch rocket attacks, not kidnap and kill Israeli citizens, and not send suicide bombers then maybe that will encourage Israel to change its course... What Iran is saying is “here is an excuse that allows us to attack Israel”. They care more about destroying Israel than defending the Fellahin.

It just proves that Israel is no better than it's neighbors in the Middle-East when it comes to human rights.

That is no mystery just as it is no mystery that Islam is not a stalwart defender of human rights.

Liberal democracy in Israel is an illusion.

So Sharia is the only reality?

It might better be called 'ethnic democracy'. It's discrimation of ethnic minorities, restriction on free speech ect.

Just like the status of non Muslim cultures in Muslim nations? What do you think would happen to me if I went to Saudi Arabia and shared my faith openly?

put it in the same league than other developping democracies such as Turkey or Tunesia. In Israel, there are the 'Jews' and the other 'second-class citizens'.

No doubt that there is discrimination going on in Israel but part of that is due to the uneasiness with the Fellahin in general. But if the Israeli Muslims don’t feel that they are being treated fairly, then they should start Gandhi-like peaceful civil disobedience. If they did that, then the world would beat a path to that door to join in. That’s how it’s done, not having another nation threaten to wipe out Israel.

[Occult1]

Why limit it to just the Fellahin? Why not apply it to all non Muslim peoples living in Muslim nations?

I am not going to argue that Arab nations are the champions of ethnic intergration. They are not. But in my view, religious minorities are not under Military Occupation in these countries. If you take the christians minorities in Iraq and Syria for exemple, even if they did not have 'real powers', their rights were not infringed upon. They could at least feel a sense of belonging. Many christians in Syria have great love for the Assads father and son.

The founder of the Baath Party, which has ruled Syria since 1963, was a Christian, and Christians rose to senior positions in the party, government and security forces, although they are generally not seen to have any real power compared with their Alawite and Sunni colleagues.

Although, like other Syrians, they had very limited civil and political freedoms, Christians are believed to have valued the rights and protection accorded to minorities by Hafez al-Assad, who was president between 1971 and 2000, and by his son Bashar.

A large proportion of the country's Sunnis also tolerated or supported the Assads, whom they saw as guarantors of stability.

Source: http://www.bbc.com/n...e-east-22270455

No wonder then that the christians militias are still fighting as regime loyalist forces.

Well then, maybe if the Fellahin would raise their children not to hate Jews, not base their constitution on the premise to kill Jews and the destruction of Israel, not launch rocket attacks, not kidnap and kill Israeli citizens, and not send suicide bombers then maybe that will encourage Israel to change its course... What Iran is saying is "here is an excuse that allows us to attack Israel". They care more about destroying Israel than defending the Fellahin.

You need to realize the conditions these people are living in, then perhaps you will understand where the hatred comes from. I mean, Palestinians have no freedom of speech, they are arrested and imprisonned without charges and trials, houses are searched without warrants, there are assassinations and extra-judiciary murders, and geez, these folks have no right to vote for the Israeli governement despite the fact that every aspects of their lives is controled by this very regime. Can you really call that a democracy? It's a very far stretch from a true federation. But of course, it's the 'Jewish State'.

The Gaza strip is the biggest open-air prison on Earth. Palestinians are surrounded in Occupied Territories.

''You cannot permanently hold people without a passport, without the right to vote for the government that controls their lives, and the right to live under the same legal system as their neighbors who are of a different religion or ethnic group. Israel either solves that problem, by giving Palestinians a state of their own which you and I both want or– or– Israel will ultimately have to give citizenship and voting rights to Palestinians on the West Bank in the state of Israel, which will mean the end of the Jewish state of Israel.''

From: http://mondoweiss.ne...ians-generation

Just like the status of non Muslim cultures in Muslim nations? What do you think would happen to me if I went to Saudi Arabia and shared my faith openly?

But Israel is supposed to be better than that, right? Nonetheless they have big problems of their owns. Deflecting them on Iran is not going to solve anything.

Edited March 3, 2015 by samus

[Varelse]

http://www.snopes.co...a/jetthreat.asp

Agreed a good time for Israel to act is exactly when we're screaming "Whooaaa" the loudest. What're we going to do under any president? Nothing. Israel is our only friend in that region. The rest are forced collaborators at best.

The ol' double blindside..then again, I think the world is nearing a critical mass understanding that isis is worse for the ME than anywhere else. Once they're gone we can all lean more on Iran.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Varelse

[Space Commander Travis]

What evidence is there, objectively, that Iran is a rogue nation that wants to exert hegemony over the entire Middle East, as our resident team of fervent Israel supporters always insist? One blustering speech, which seems to be open to a variety of interpretations, from the former President seems to be the only solid evidence. They want to build a Nuke, though (possibly)? Isn't the reason for other nations having Nukes (so they always insist) defensively, as a deterrent, and considering the relentless belligerence and paranoia of a militarily very powerful and nuclear armed (although they don't admit it) nation towards it (and one whose absolute ruthlessness and the ferocious dogmatism of its leaders is well known), might they not see this as being a reasonable case for having a deterrent against the powerful and belligerent Israel?

[Raptor Witness]

Perhaps this will be Netanyahu's out, for not acting.

A way of saving face.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

True or not it seems that things do change and there will be more thinking involved before doing military operations. Especially against other countries.