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NewAge1

Israel election

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NewAge1

Hi,

I haven't seen any thread specifically about this, so intstead of spreading the conversations on 2 or 3 threads, I thought it might better to use but one.

This is a pretty tight race so far, Netanyahu has claimed the victory on Twitter but from what I understand of Israel's electoral system, this is far from certain. if Herzog manage to put together a majority with the Center and perhaps even the Arab parties, he still has a chance to form the next governement. This is very messy but Bibi seems to have an edge here, since there is more (far)right wing parties, such that are willing to stand firm behind him to block any attempt from the Left.

''TEL AVIV — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel and his chief challenger, Isaac Herzog of the center-left Zionist Union, appeared to win about the same number of seats in Parliament in Tuesday’s election, according to Israeli news media and exit polls, promising a protracted and messy process of forming the next governing coalition.''

Source: http://www.nytimes.c...ahu-herzog.html

Edited by samus
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and then

Yes, their elections are always good for a puzzle. There seems to be one party, Kohlane (sp), that holds the power to decide who will be the next PM. As I said in an earlier post, the choices for the people of Israel are stark. Seems they are very evenly divided about where they feel the most important issues lie. Herzog promises a fairer economic burden and share for all as well as a return to the fold of world nations by reinvigorating Israel's image abroad. That'd be great but for his choice of vehicles: he wants to give land for peace. In spite of clear evidence that every time it's been tried it only brought more war. When they pulled out of souther Lebanon they got Hizbullah on their border and when they pulled out of Gaza they got Hamas. If they ever pull out of the high ground of the west bank they will deserve (nationally) whatever happens to them.

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Thorvir

Yes, their elections are always good for a puzzle. There seems to be one party, Kohlane (sp), that holds the power to decide who will be the next PM. As I said in an earlier post, the choices for the people of Israel are stark. Seems they are very evenly divided about where they feel the most important issues lie. Herzog promises a fairer economic burden and share for all as well as a return to the fold of world nations by reinvigorating Israel's image abroad. That'd be great but for his choice of vehicles: he wants to give land for peace. In spite of clear evidence that every time it's been tried it only brought more war. When they pulled out of souther Lebanon they got Hizbullah on their border and when they pulled out of Gaza they got Hamas. If they ever pull out of the high ground of the west bank they will deserve (nationally) whatever happens to them.

True this.

Appeasement never works. Trading land for peace isn't the way to do it--that's like taking a step backward and not forward.

I hope whatever happens Israel still retains the ability and will to defend itself.

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joc

Netanyahu said Israel could defend itself. Maybe against Iran...but certainly not against Russia. Who thinks it is just coincidence that Russia is holding nation wide military muscle flexing exercises at the same time this election is going on? Israel can not defend itself against Russia...and if Israel attacked Iran...Russia will be massing on their borders. I didn't hear that or read that anywhere...just makes sense to me. And if Russia masses on Israels border...what prey tell will the Chinese do? Sit back and watch Russia take the entire middle east? This Iran business could get really bad really fast. And meanwhile our King...is wheeling and dealing with our enemies behind everyone's back and totally thwarting the Constitution and the Separation of Powers.

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Black Red Devil

Netanyahu said Israel could defend itself. Maybe against Iran...but certainly not against Russia. Who thinks it is just coincidence that Russia is holding nation wide military muscle flexing exercises at the same time this election is going on? Israel can not defend itself against Russia...and if Israel attacked Iran...Russia will be massing on their borders. I didn't hear that or read that anywhere...just makes sense to me. And if Russia masses on Israels border...what prey tell will the Chinese do? Sit back and watch Russia take the entire middle east? This Iran business could get really bad really fast. And meanwhile our King...is wheeling and dealing with our enemies behind everyone's back and totally thwarting the Constitution and the Separation of Powers.

JOC.... snap, SNAP......wake up...you're all sweating...it was just a bad dream man.

Edited by Black Red Devil
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and then

Netanyahu's Likud has won - resoundingly. Obama's assault on the Israeli electoral process failed. Hopefully Bibi will give him the finger. :w00t:

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Degen

Netanyahu's Likud has won - resoundingly. Obama's assault on the Israeli electoral process failed. Hopefully Bibi will give him the finger. :w00t:

Hopefully Obama leaves the little warmonger to fight his own fights then.

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RoofGardener

Hmm... interesting. Likud has the largest number of seats of any one party (30), but with 120 seats, that is hardly a majority.

812-1426670434117089944.png

Even allied with unspecified "right-wing" parties he still doesn't command an absolute majority.

It will be interesting to see what alliance comes out of this.

Either way, the pigeons have come home to roost for HAMAS and the PA. They found it amusing to bait the Israeli's (with rockets and threats of the ICC respectively), and now the Israeli public has delivered the last laugh.

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joc

snapback.pngjoc, on 17 March 2015 - 09:35 PM, said:

Netanyahu said Israel could defend itself. Maybe against Iran...but certainly not against Russia. Who thinks it is just coincidence that Russia is holding nation wide military muscle flexing exercises at the same time this election is going on? Israel can not defend itself against Russia...and if Israel attacked Iran...Russia will be massing on their borders. I didn't hear that or read that anywhere...just makes sense to me. And if Russia masses on Israels border...what prey tell will the Chinese do? Sit back and watch Russia take the entire middle east? This Iran business could get really bad really fast. And meanwhile our King...is wheeling and dealing with our enemies behind everyone's back and totally thwarting the Constitution and the Separation of Powers.

JOC.... snap, SNAP......wake up...you're all sweating...it was just a bad dream man.

Mmmm hmmm...a few years ago when...EVERYTHING was about China...I was told similar things when I said it isn't about China....keep your eyes on Russia....

....the bad dream is going to be a Waking Nightmare my friend. Coming Soon..to a theater near you.

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Sir Smoke aLot

This isn't a surprise at all as mr. Bibi is true figure, true representative of long lasting ideology. He should be at power forever, as long as his health serves him.

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and then

Hopefully Obama leaves the little warmonger to fight his own fights then.

I think you can rest easy on that one Degen. There's no way Obama will do ANYTHING - willingly - to help Bibi or Israel. Oby doesn't like losing and he definitely lost one yesterday. :w00t:

I just wonder what he'll do next, he wont allow this to stand without the "last laugh", he's THAT petty.

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Degen

I think you can rest easy on that one Degen. There's no way Obama will do ANYTHING - willingly - to help Bibi or Israel. Oby doesn't like losing and he definitely lost one yesterday. :w00t:

I just wonder what he'll do next, he wont allow this to stand without the "last laugh", he's THAT petty.

*Yawn*

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*Yawn*

:w00t: Have a nice sleep ;)

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Degen

:w00t: Have a nice sleep ;)

Yeah. Your constant droning on about how much you hate obama is enough to put anyone to sleep.

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NewAge1
Appeasement never works. Trading land for peace isn't the way to do it--that's like taking a step backward and not forward.

If an independant state is not the best solution, then you have to allow Palestinians in one inclusive society. Oppression is not the way to go, IMO.

Who thinks it is just coincidence that Russia is holding nation wide military muscle flexing exercises at the same time this election is going on?

The Israel election has nothing to do with that, joc. Russia's military muscle flexing is a response to a NATO military presence at about 300 yard of Estonia's Russian border.

''As NATO increases its activity by putting troops on the Russian borders, it is hardly surprising that Russia responds in a similar way, political analyst Chris Bambery told RT.

Vladimir Putin has ordered the Russian Northern Fleet put on full combat alert as part of large snap military exercises. The announcement came with increased NATO activity near the Russian border.''

Source: http://rt.com/op-edg...ls-arctic-nato/

See also: http://www.telegraph...ian-border.html

Edited by samus

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NewAge1

This isn't a surprise at all as mr. Bibi is true figure, true representative of long lasting ideology. He should be at power forever, as long as his health serves him.

This election proves that there is a deep division among Israelis. I wouldn't feel too comfortable if I was Bibi. His policies are far from being unanimous. I think he should take good note of that and act accordingly. Besides, the fact that 4.5 millions Palestinians under occupation can't vote at all certainly gives him an advantage. There is really something unhealthy with his ethnocratic ideology, I was absolutely disgusted when he warned that the arabs in Israel could use their right to vote, as if it was a bad thing...

Edited by samus
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This election proves that there is a deep division among Israelis. I wouldn't feel too comfortable if I was Bibi. His policies are far from being unanimous. I think he should take good note of that and act accordingly. Besides, the fact that 4.5 millions Palestinians under occupation can't vote at all certainly gives him an advantage. There is really something unhealthy with his ethnocratic ideology, I was absolutely disgusted when he warned that the arabs in Israel could use their right to vote, as if it was a bad thing...

From the perspective of a Jewish state it IS a bad thing. Israel was formed to be a Jewish state first, democracy second. A lot of people don't like that but they wouldn't like Israel no matter WHAT it did so they really don't figure in the equation. If those 4.5 million voted they would quickly turn a Jewish state into just another Islamic state that treats Jews as dhimmis. That boat sailed in '48.

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NewAge1

From the perspective of a Jewish state it IS a bad thing. Israel was formed to be a Jewish state first, democracy second. A lot of people don't like that but they wouldn't like Israel no matter WHAT it did so they really don't figure in the equation. If those 4.5 million voted they would quickly turn a Jewish state into just another Islamic state that treats Jews as dhimmis. That boat sailed in '48.

So to avoid the 'risk' of becoming an 'Islamic State' that treats jews as dhimmis you choose to be a 'Jewish State' that treats arabs as sub-citizens. Or non-citizens in the case of the Palestinians. Not sure what's better. The truth is, Bibi doesn't want them to vote for they would demolish the (far) right and put an end to the status quo in which the Israeli regime has been shaping it's policies for a decade now. It might even force Israel to become a secular society with policies that reflects it's demographic. Until then, Bibi should stop pretending to be for democracy. What he wants is an ethnocracy.

Edited by samus

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RoofGardener

I'm not sure that holds water, Samus. From what I read, Israeli Arabs have more democratic empowerment, and a better quality of life, than any Arab citizen of ANY of the other Arab nations.

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NewAge1

I'm not sure that holds water, Samus. From what I read, Israeli Arabs have more democratic empowerment, and a better quality of life, than any Arab citizen of ANY of the other Arab nations.

If what you say is true then maybe the Israeli regime should reconsider his Bill(1) that further defines Israel as the nation of the Jewish people, pretty much marginalizing the arab population in the process.

(1): http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/26/us-mideast-israel-president-idUSKCN0JA0VY20141126

Edited by samus

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So to avoid the 'risk' of becoming an 'Islamic State' that treats jews as dhimmis you choose to be a 'Jewish State' that treats arabs as sub-citizens. Non-citizen in the case of the Palestinians. Not sure what's better. No, Bibi doesn't want them to vote, for they would demolish the (far) right. It might even force Israel to become a secular society with policies that reflects it's demographic. Still, Bibi should stop pretending to be for democracy then. What he wants is an ethnocracy.

They are free to leave if they cannot adjust to the situation. The history of the Jews makes them the way they are and I don't blame them for wanting ONE small state for themselves only. The Arab Muslims have about 22. They are literally 1000 times larger in land mass yet we are to believe that if they get just half or so of this TINY state, they will be satisfied. I just call BS when I smell it. I agre though, he should make it clear going forward EXACTLY what Israel IS and is NOT. That is the honest way and there is no need to bend to Obama any further because it does ZERO good.

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NewAge1

They are free to leave if they cannot adjust to the situation. The history of the Jews makes them the way they are and I don't blame them for wanting ONE small state for themselves only. The Arab Muslims have about 22. They are literally 1000 times larger in land mass yet we are to believe that if they get just half or so of this TINY state, they will be satisfied.

I can't find myself endorsing the need of having religious states, sorry. Why a modern state should seek to build on the model of an Islamic State is beyond me. Because that's what Israel has become in the substance, not really a democracy but an ethnocracy. Where your faith and skin color dictate your rights and privileges. These are not Western values, where ethnicity and religion has nothing to do with the State and it's policies. It only makes me laugh when the Israeli regime claims to fight for Western values.

I agre though, he should make it clear going forward EXACTLY what Israel IS and is NOT. That is the honest way and there is no need to bend to Obama any further because it does ZERO good.

The problem is, AT, that far from every Israelis agree with him as to what it IS and is NOT. The result of this election is a solid indication of that. While he should stop pretending (and to be honest I think we saw his true face in the last few days of the election when panick took place), he still cannot speak for everyone.

Edited by samus

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keithisco

They are free to leave if they cannot adjust to the situation. The history of the Jews makes them the way they are and I don't blame them for wanting ONE small state for themselves only. The Arab Muslims have about 22. They are literally 1000 times larger in land mass yet we are to believe that if they get just half or so of this TINY state, they will be satisfied. I just call BS when I smell it. I agre though, he should make it clear going forward EXACTLY what Israel IS and is NOT. That is the honest way and there is no need to bend to Obama any further because it does ZERO good.

Racist and Bigots are the 2 words that spring to mind at the moment. Neither of which are good traits to be proud of. Remember the Nazi party in Germany 1935 onwards? Jews were told that they were free to leave Germany (along with Gypsies, homosexuals, Intellectuals etc) Exactly the same... this is just a perverted sense of revenge on an undefended population... sound familiar?

Second Highlight (mine) not even close, so please use the word "literally" as it is meant to be used.

Edited by keithisco
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Thorvir

If an independant state is not the best solution, then you have to allow Palestinians in one inclusive society. Oppression is not the way to go, IMO.

There's no oppression, so your statement is BS, and a obvious display of anti-Israeli sentiment. Whatever happens to the Palestinians is what they bring on themselves.

This election proves that there is a deep division among Israelis. I wouldn't feel too comfortable if I was Bibi. His policies are far from being unanimous. I think he should take good note of that and act accordingly. Besides, the fact that 4.5 millions Palestinians under occupation can't vote at all certainly gives him an advantage.

It's not occupation. Get it right for once and stop being a fool.

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RoofGardener

......Jews were told that they were free to leave Germany ....

Well... yes... but they had to leave something like 90% of their wealth and possessions behind. I don't think that Israeli Arabs are under any such restriction ?

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