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NewAge1

Israel election

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joc

If thats how you want to read it. Or could it be im just referring to joc himself? Nah, because then you would miss a chance to throw out stereotypes. Did it feel good to get them all out under the guise of a question?

Then please tell me Degen....what do I believe? What are my personal religious beliefs? If you are not stereotyping me...tell me!

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Degen

What? Do you just pull this BS out of your head or are you getting talking points from some Liberal Think Sewer Tank?

Nah i dont use your sources, except change liberal to right wing nutbaggery

Edited by Degen

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Degen

Then please tell me Degen....what do I believe? What are my personal religious beliefs? If you are not stereotyping me...tell me!

Who cares which flavour it is, religion is religion, unnecesssary in the 21st century and civilized world

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NewAge1

So your problem with Cruz is his own personal beliefs? How petty! See...in AMerica we have something called Freedom of Religion...we get to choose to worship whatever way we want or not to worship at all....we have the Freedom to choose a religion, or to choose No Religion. Whether that religion is silly to you is of zero consequence. Men and women of every walk of life have faith in God. When you castigate Cruz you are also castigating them...again...how Petty!

Except that his personal beliefs include pushing them on others. You should make some research on dominion theology. Or ask his father. That, and the fact that he choose a fundamentalist school to make his announcement and spoke about Jesus Christ and christian values for half of his speech is, in many ways, a disregard for the Founding Fathers of America and the concept of religious neutrality as well as a disrespect to all those who do not subscribe to christianity.

Edited by samus

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and then

Except that his personal beliefs include pushing them on others. You should make some research on dominion theology. Or ask his father. That, and the fact that he choose a fundamentalist school to make his announcement and spoke about Jesus Christ and christian values for half of his speech is, in many ways, a disregard for the Founding Fathers of America and the concept of religious neutrality as well as a disrespect to all those who do not subscribe to christianity.

I don't understand why a candidate speaking before his natural constituency is a sign of disrespect.

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joc

Except that his personal beliefs include pushing them on others. You should make some research on dominion theology. Or ask his father. That, and the fact that he choose a fundamentalist school to make his announcement and spoke about Jesus Christ and christian values for half of his speech is, in many ways, a disregard for the Founding Fathers of America and the concept of religious neutrality as well as a disrespect to all those who do not subscribe to christianity.

I would never call you and idiot. I will say that the above statement is completely idiotic.

The forefathers didn't say a damn thing about 'religious neutrality' ...

What you just said is the same thing as saying...someone who in their campaign speech who did not mention religion was being disrespectful to all of the religious.

Why don't you just go back and watch some more Jerry Springer Reruns and leave the deeper political discussions to those who actually think about things in real terms. (just a suggestion)

Edited by joc
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joc

Posted Today, 07:42 AM

snapback.pngjoc, on 26 March 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

Then please tell me Degen....what do I believe? What are my personal religious beliefs? If you are not stereotyping me...tell me!

Who cares which flavour it is, religion is religion, unnecesssary in the 21st century and civilized world

You do stereotype people. There are the atheists like yourself and everyone else is stupid.

I don't care what flavor of religion a person partakes in...nor do I care whether they partake in one or not. In this country...people are free to believe whatever they want...or not. To put everyone in two boxes is simplistic. To put everyone in two boxes is dumb. Actually...if the depth of your understanding of humanity is only 2 boxes deep...I suggest that you and Samus have a Jerry Springer Rerun watching party together.

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Degen

I would suggest the same to you but you are probably lacking in the intelligence to even turn on a tv. You are no better yourself, everyone either is as much a dullard as you or a liberal, wake up to yourself. The world isnt as simple as you.

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DieChecker

If thats how you want to read it. Or could it be im just referring to joc himself? Nah, because then you would miss a chance to throw out stereotypes. Did it feel good to get them all out under the guise of a question?

No... You seemed to be pretty sure it was all Christians, and other religious people also, who are stupid.

You sir... are a bigot.

Who cares which flavour it is, religion is religion, unnecesssary in the 21st century and civilized world

Let's see what happens when we put "gays", or "blacks", or "handicapped" in for religion shall we.....??

Let's not, since it is obvious that you're a bigot.

It's OK though, being a bigot isn't against the law. You should embrace your bigotedness and revel in it, since you are correct, in that there isn't direct physical proof of God, or any gods, of any religion. Go go ahead and proceed with your biased discussion of people's faith and philosophies.

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Degen

No... You seemed to be pretty sure it was all Christians, and other religious people also, who are stupid.

You sir... are a bigot.

Let's see what happens when we put "gays", or "blacks", or "handicapped" in for religion shall we.....??

Let's not, since it is obvious that you're a bigot.

It's OK though, being a bigot isn't against the law. You should embrace your bigotedness and revel in it, since you are correct, in that there isn't direct physical proof of God, or any gods, of any religion. Go go ahead and proceed with your biased discussion of people's faith and philosophies.

And you can keep revelling in your stupidity. There is no law against it either which is why you take full advantage of it. Thanks for liking my post to and confirming my assumption.

Edited by Degen

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NewAge1
The forefathers didn't say a damn thing about 'religious neutrality' ..

Want some quotes?

"I am persuaded, you will permit me to observe that the path of true piety is so plain as to require but little political direction. To this consideration we ought to ascribe the absence of any regulation, respecting religion, from the Magna-Charta of our country." -- George Washington, responding to a group of clergymen who complained that the Constitution lacked mention of Jesus Christ

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State." – Thomas Jefferson

"The question before the human race is, whether the God of Nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious [doctrine claiming] miracles?" – John Adams

"Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by [Religious] Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in history." – James Madison

"Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly-marked feature of all law-religions, or religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity."Thomas Paine

"The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the Church from the State." -- James Madison

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a clergy-ridden people maintaining a free civil government." – Thomas Jefferson

Source: http://messenger2.cj...ingfathers.html

What you just said is the same thing as saying...someone who in their campaign speech who did not mention religion was being disrespectful to all of the religious.

It's the first time in the history of American presidency that a candidate decides to pick a religious insitution to make his annoucement. I am not aware of anyone else who did that. Common sense tells me that one who desire to make a bid for one of the most powerful position in world should choose a neutral location, one that is free of religious or racial interests.

Why don't you just go back and watch some more Jerry Springer Reruns and leave the deeper political discussions to those who actually think about things in real terms. (just a suggestion)

It's a Russian conspiracy. :w00t:

Edited by samus

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Degen
:tu: Edited by Degen

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NewAge1

Strange all those quotes have my name to them

Corrected. I misquoted somehow, my bad.

Edited by samus
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DieChecker

And you can keep revelling in your stupidity. There is no law against it either which is why you take full advantage of it. Thanks for liking my post to and confirming my assumption.

It is not stupidity if my personal experiences have led me to a conclusion. You simply have not experienced what I have in the environment and settings that I have. This is the same reason people embrace bigfoot and ET, they've had personal experiences that they are absolutely sure were true, and yet that does not make them idiots, or stupid, perhaps only mistaken in what they saw. And only perhaps mistaken in that no physical evidence has been collected by science. The difference between belief in ET/bigfoot and religion is that the experiences of religion happen every week... every day, and not just once on a moonless night, or once deep in the woods.

Humans are driven by experience, which has almost nothing to do with a person's intelligence, or wisdom. To claim so is ignorant, and perhaps, if held regardless of discussion... bigotry.

Now go back to discussing whatever point of ignorance you were previously working on.

Edited by DieChecker

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Degen

It is not stupidity if my personal experiences have led me to a conclusion. You simply have not experienced what I have in the environment and settings that I have. This is the same reason people embrace bigfoot and ET, they've had personal experiences that they are absolutely sure were true, and yet that does not make them idiots, or stupid, perhaps only mistaken in what they saw. And only perhaps mistaken in that no physical evidence has been collected by science. The difference between belief in ET/bigfoot and religion is that the experiences of religion happen every week... every day, and not just once on a moonless night, or once deep in the woods.

Humans are driven by experience, which has almost nothing to do with a person's intelligence, or wisdom. To claim so is ignorant, and perhaps, if held regardless of discussion... bigotry.

Now go back to discussing whatever point of ignorance you were previously working on.

:sleepy: Wake me when one of these every day experiences happen then will you. But yes ill get back to the point of ignorance i was working on if you insist i get back to dissecting your posts.

Edited by Degen

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joc

Want some quotes?

"I am persuaded, you will permit me to observe that the path of true piety is so plain as to require but little political direction. To this consideration we ought to ascribe the absence of any regulation, respecting religion, from the Magna-Charta of our country." -- George Washington, responding to a group of clergymen who complained that the Constitution lacked mention of Jesus Christ

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State." – Thomas Jefferson

"The question before the human race is, whether the God of Nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious [doctrine claiming] miracles?" – John Adams

"Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by [Religious] Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in history." – James Madison

"Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly-marked feature of all law-religions, or religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity."Thomas Paine

"The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the Church from the State." -- James Madison

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a clergy-ridden people maintaining a free civil government." – Thomas Jefferson

Source: http://messenger2.cj...ingfathers.html

It's the first time in the history of American presidency that a candidate decides to pick a religious insitution to make his annoucement. I am not aware of anyone else who did that. Common sense tells me that one who desire to make a bid for one of the most powerful position in world should choose a neutral location, one that is free of religious or racial interests.

It's a Russian conspiracy. :w00t:

Big Whoop....Liberals...gotta love 'em....take the words of the Founders and Twist them. What they are all saying Samus is that we are not going to dictate what people believe.

What Russian Conspiracy? What does Russia have to do with the Founding of America?

Ted Cruz was exercising his Rights under the Constitution that you just mentioned. So what if he launched his campaign from a University built on the belief in God. So What? That has nothing to do with Religion in Government. George Washington was a man of Faith as well Samus.

Cruz has a right to believe in God. You have a right to belittle him for believing. My personal opinion is that small minds belittle other's beliefs.

Why do you care what he believes? You don't even have a clue what I believe ....but why do you care? If my religion is not going to hurt you...why do you care? Seriously....why do any of you care who believes what? All that is written is to say ....Government cannot dictate your beliefs.

What is so hard to understand about that? Nothing in the real world.

Look Bud...the Left has its roots in Moscow. Believe it or not, it does. Tell me where the Left Mindset originated if not from Russia? The Left, Socialism, Communism....all tools of Tyranny. Tyrants have been around forever...we have one in the oval office right now. And you too...are a bit of a Tyrant. Belittling other people of faith as you do.

My personal opinion is that....I don't really give a bloody goddam what you or anyone else does or does not believe....as long as it doesn't threaten me or anyone else'. Radical Islam...it is threatening... Christianity, Judaism, etc.. not threatening. I'm fine with you being a Christian. I am fine with you being a Muslim. I am fine with you being an Atheist. And I am fine with you just saying that you don't know and/or that you don't care.

What does a persons religious beliefs have to do with any of it?

Edited by joc
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NewAge1

Big Whoop....Liberals...gotta love 'em....take the words of the Founders and Twist them. What they are all saying Samus is that we are not going to dictate what people believe.

I did not expect anything else from someone who just can't admit he has been proven wrong. The Founding Fathers made a clear distinction between the State and religion. That's what the concept of religious neutrality is all about. Ted Cruz does not. He and his father are dominionists who believe the United States should be governed by Christian values and beliefs. That's what the 7 Mountains refer to. Christianity in every spheres of governing.

What Russian Conspiracy? What does Russia have to do with the Founding of America?

That was sarcasm, joc. A mocking reply to your suggestion that people who disagree with you are not ''deep into political discussions''. I guess my point is, don't take yourself too seriously. ;)

Look Bud...the Left has its roots in Moscow. Believe it or not, it does. Tell me where the Left Mindset originated if not from Russia? The Left, Socialism, Communism....all tools of Tyranny. Tyrants have been around forever...we have one in the oval office right now. And you too...are a bit of a Tyrant. Belittling other people of faith as you do.

Actually, the terms Left and Right used in politics originate from the French Revolution, where the supporters of aristocracy and monarchy were sitting on the right side of the assembly, while those advocating for change and the interests of the bourgeoisie and merchant class were sitting on the left side. Only much later on did the Left began to be associated with socialism and in it's extreme form, communism.

''The terms "left" and "right" appeared during the French Revolution of 1789 when members of the National Assembly divided into supporters of the king to the president's right and supporters of the revolution to his left. One deputy, the Baron de Gauville explained, "We began to recognize each other: those who were loyal to religion and the king took up positions to the right of the chair so as to avoid the shouts, oaths, and indecencies that enjoyed free rein in the opposing camp." However the Right opposed the seating arrangement because they believed that deputies should support private or general interests but should not form factions or political parties. The contemporary press occasionally used the terms "left" and "right" to refer to the opposing sides.[9]''

Source: https://en.wikipedia..."right_politics

You seem to be obsessed with Russia but the truth is, in this day and age the Putin regime is very much leaning on the right side of the political spectrum. He has the full support of much of the far-right parties all across Europe. Boris Nemtsov, a liberal politician and staunch critic of Putin's policies, who was perceived as an ally to the Left movement in Russia, has been assassinated recently.

European Far-Right Politicians In Russia To Support Putin:

''Nationalist supporters of Russian President Vladimir Putin brought together controversial far-right politicians from across Europe on Sunday in an effort to demonstrate international support for Russia and weaken European Union commitment to sanctions imposed on Russia over its role in Ukraine.''

Link: http://abcnews.go.co...-putin-29819852

So your claim that the science behind climate change is a conspiracy from ''communist Russia'' is so ridiculous it's hard not to burst out laughing.

Edited by samus
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NewAge1

Just to add: Attempting to depict me as an intolerent, an atheist and what not because I strongly believe in the principles of religious neutrality - the separation of the State from any religious influence - is but a show a narrow-mindedness on you part, joc. That a candidate be christian, jew, muslim, buddhist, hinduist, pagan ect is of no concern to me, we are all entitled to our personal beliefs, as long as one do not intend to push them on others and start advocating for a theocracy in the Western world. That's my opinion. Anyway, enough with Ted Cruz, this guy has virtually no chance of becoming the President of the United States (let alone wining the GOP race) and the main reason for that has everything to do with his extreme views which, apparantly, are not so extreme to you. There is really not much else that can be said then.

Edited by samus

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and then

For those here who have so eloquently noted their opinions of Cruz' unsuitability for that office: imagine if he WON. I know it isn't likely at all but just IMAGINE how you'd feel... for conservatives, Obama has been FAR WORSE than anything Cruz might do. In fact Obama has set precedents that we might never overcome as a nation. He single handed managed to trash the constitution with his arrogance and our faith in the entire system has been shaken because we've seen JUST how weak a system is that relies on a congress to be honorable and self sacrificing.

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joc

Just to add: Attempting to depict me as an intolerent, an atheist and what not because I strongly believe in the principles of religious neutrality - the separation of the State from any religious influence - is but a show a narrow-mindedness on you part, joc. That a candidate be christian, jew, muslim, buddhist, hinduist, pagan ect is of no concern to me, we are all entitled to our personal beliefs, as long as one do not intend to push them on others and start advocating for a theocracy in the Western world. That's my opinion. Anyway, enough with Ted Cruz, this guy has virtually no chance of becoming the President of the United States (let alone wining the GOP race) and the main reason for that has everything to do with his extreme views which, apparantly, are not so extreme to you. There is really not much else that can be said then.

hmmmm...touched a nerve did I?

Why is it that everyone seems to be making such a big deal about Ted Cruz? If he has virtually no chance of winning?

I think he has a very good chance of winning...we'll see what we see.

As far as Russia....Only much later on did the Left began to be associated with socialism and in it's extreme form, communism.

What I was talking about was the 'mindset' the agenda...the political ideology of the Left. Not the origin of the term. Now look at the sentence you wrote in which I have highlighted 3 words. That is your sentence. That is all I was saying and you just confirmed it...thank you...we don't need to argue about semantics anymore. The LEFT is associated with SOCIALISM and COMMUNISM. And neither of those are prevalent in the majority of Americans thought processes.

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Michelle

It's the first time in the history of American presidency that a candidate decides to pick a religious insitution to make his annoucement. I am not aware of anyone else who did that. Common sense tells me that one who desire to make a bid for one of the most powerful position in world should choose a neutral location, one that is free of religious or racial interests.

Is it really? Out of curiosity, do you have a source for that besides an article stating it as a fact? I would be interested in where all of the presidential candidates announced they were running for the presidency, no matter how obscure they were deemed to be at the time.

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NewAge1

hmmmm...touched a nerve did I?

Why is it that everyone seems to be making such a big deal about Ted Cruz? If he has virtually no chance of winning?

I think he has a very good chance of winning...we'll see what we see.

As far as Russia....Only much later on did theLeft began to be associated with socialism and in it's extreme form, communism.

What I was talking about was the 'mindset' the agenda...the political ideology of the Left. Not the origin of the term. Now look at the sentence you wrote in which I have highlighted 3 words. That is your sentence. That is all I was saying and you just confirmed it...thank you...we don't need to argue about semantics anymore. The LEFT is associated with SOCIALISM and COMMUNISM. And neither of those are prevalent in the majority of Americans thought processes.

You cherry pick a sentence in my post and ignore the rest. Great. What about Putin enjoying the support from the far-right parties all across Europe? You don't seem to realize that Putin has nothing to do with the Left. Which makes your claims rather nonesensical to say the least.

Leader Of Italy's Right-Wing Nothern League To Meet Putin:

Link: http://www.newsweek....89178?piano_t=1

Russia Courting Europe's Far Right, Anti-EU Political Parties:

Link: http://www.ctvnews.c...rties-1.2146410

Right Wing Christians Build Ties To Vladimir Putin's Inner Circle:

http://www.alternet....ns-inner-circle

Putin Has Far Right Admirers All Over Europe And They're Up For Election This Month:

http://www.newrepubl...-parliament-may

Edited by samus

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NewAge1

Is it really? Out of curiosity, do you have a source for that besides an article stating it as a fact? I would be interested in where all of the presidential candidates announced they were running for the presidency, no matter how obscure they were deemed to be at the time.

Ok so you are turning the table on me but as I said, I am am not aware of any candidate in the history of American presidency who made his announcement at a religious institution. If you have an exemple, please tell me and I will readily admit that I was wrong. Clearly not the Founding Fathers, as they were Deists, they believed in their God but not the religion.

Edited by samus

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Michelle

Ok so you are turning the table on me but as I said, I am am not aware of any candidate in the history of American presidency who made his announcement at a religious institution. If you have an exemple, please tell me and I will readily admit that I was wrong. Clearly not the Founding Fathers, as they were Deists, they believed in their God but not the religion.

Not at all. You made a statement, as fact, that peaked my curiosity. I would be happy if you just would provide a source for every president ever elected.

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NewAge1

Not at all. You made a statement, as fact, that peaked my curiosity. I would be happy if you just would provide a source for every president ever elected.

I'll try to make more research on that, but ''provinding a source for every president ever elected'' on the internet seems rather unreasonable to me.

Can we agree though, that since you, yourself can't even name a candidate who ever did so that this is rather a unusual thing? And for obvious reason, for this a disregard by a would-be President to all those who do not subscribe to this religion.

Edited by samus

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