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Britain to bolster Falklands defences.


stevewinn

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Sigh, Argentina does not want to talk, they will complain to the UN everytime. Argentina never even owned the Falkland Islands

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I see no problem with negotiating a free trade pact between the 2 nations, a common exploration of resources policy (inc. oil and fish) but it really cannot extend to joint sovereignty of the Islands without the Islanders wishes. Chrissie Kerchner will soon be spending some time behind Argentine prison bars on corruption charges so she needs to deflect as much attention from this as possible.

It makes financial sense to ship crude the short distance to Argentina for refining but after the Falklands War and aggressive diplomacy used to try and make us hand over something which is ours then we should refuse. Lets cut Brazil off from Argentina to make sure they cannot form an alliance with which to launch a new invasion. We could do that by shipping the crude to Brazil for refining building a good relationship with them.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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Well, that is the question. Argentina is in a terrible state (as you know) You know things are bad when the IMF wont lend you money and came close to expelling them the IMF and as for our good friend Chrissie, as she's known to her friends - she's serving her last term as el-presidente.

You've got to love the Argy Bargies. They tried their luck in 82, not only did we liberate the Falkland Islanders we also liberated Argentina from a dictatorship, a Military Junta. You'd think they'd show a bit of gratitude.

Well i believe some did, just sore losers i guess

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Land. You live on it. You don't own it. Some Native American comments about land ownership:

"Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children." --Ancient Indian Proverb

"The American Indian is of the soil, whether it be the region of forests, plains, pueblos, or mesas. He fits into the landscape, for the hand that fashioned the continent also fashioned the man for his surroundings. He once grew as naturally as the wild sunflowers, he belongs just as the buffalo belonged..." --Luther Standing Bear

"What is this you call property? It cannot be the earth, for the land is our mother, nourishing all her children, beasts, birds, fish and all men. The woods, the streams, everything on it belongs to everybody and is for the use of all. How can one man say it belongs only to him?" -Massasoit

"One does not sell the land people walk on." --Crazy Horse

"We do not own the freshness of the air or the sparkle of the water. How can you buy them from us?" -Sealth

"My reason teaches me that land cannot be sold. The Great Spirit gave it to his children to live upon. So long as they occupy and cultivate it, they have a right to the soil. Nothing can be sold but such things as can be carried away" --Black Hawk

"We know our lands have now become more valuable. The white people think we do not know their value; but we know that the land is everlasting, and the few goods we receive for it are soon worn out and gone." -- Canassatego

"I love this land and the buffalo and will not part with it…I have heard you intend to settle us on a reservation near the mountains. I don't want to settle. I love to roam over the prairies. There I feel free and happy, but when we settle down we grow pale and die. A long time ago this land belonged to our fathers, but when I go up to the river I see camps of soldiers on its banks. These soldiers cut down my timber, they kill my buffalo and when I see that, my heart feels like bursting." -- Satanta, Kiowa Chief

"They made us many promises, more than I can remember, but they never kept but one: they promised to take our land and they took it. It was not hard to see that the white people coveted every inch of land on which we lived. Greed. Humans wanted the last bit of ground which supported Indian feet. It was land - it has ever been land - for which the White man oppresses the Indian and to gain possession of which he commits any crime. Treaties that have been made are vain attempts to save a little of the fatherland, treaties holy to us by the smoke of the pipe - but nothing is holy to the white man. Little by little, with greed and cruelty unsurpassed by the animal, he has taken all. The loaf is gone and now the white man wants the crumbs." --Luther Standing Bear

And for the Tories amongst us, a quote from Winston Churchill:

"To jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war."

So let's talk.

The Falkland Islands where in British hands long before Argentina even existed. - But in keeping with your stolen lands. Lets evict to days Argentines (European Spanish invaders ancestry) and reinstate the land back to the Native, indigenous population that where slaughtered in their thousands by the Spanish to make way for the Argentina we see today. Jaw Jaw about that. but its never going to happen.

As for Jaw Jaw, We were exactly doing that in the late 1960's, The British government was Jaw Jawing about the economic partnership and eventual transfer of sovereignty against the wishes of the Islanders, as a result of jaw jawing - everything was heading in Argentina's favour the airfield was established but the the plans had to be changed because at this point the Argies started turning hostile so the British built a smaller airfield as to prevent large military aircraft landing and eventually flights to and from Argentina started. This was done with a backdrop of the Argentines having one of their Naval ships fire on the British survey ship the RRS Shackleton, and given this serious incident the British Government was still Jaw Jawing.

the Jaw - jaw was still going on well into the late 1970's, with the British government for a second time trying to transfer sovereignty of the Islands to Argentina in a foolish attempt at preventing an Argentine invasion. bear in mind this was against the wishes of the Islanders, so what did the British government do then, in 1981 they only went and revoked the Falkland Islanders British citizenship to try and force the issue. then the Argentines invade on the 2nd April 1982. after British Victory against all odd's - following the war the Citizenship of the Falkland Islanders is restored as British Citizens and the mistakes of ignoring the wishes of the Islanders and the foolish attempt at Jaw Jawing should never ever be forgotten.

read about it in more detail in Max Hastings Battle for the Falklands

51if%2B3FVZtL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

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Land. You live on it. You don't own it. Some Native American comments about land ownership:

"Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children." --Ancient Indian Proverb

"The American Indian is of the soil, whether it be the region of forests, plains, pueblos, or mesas. He fits into the landscape, for the hand that fashioned the continent also fashioned the man for his surroundings. He once grew as naturally as the wild sunflowers, he belongs just as the buffalo belonged..." --Luther Standing Bear

"What is this you call property? It cannot be the earth, for the land is our mother, nourishing all her children, beasts, birds, fish and all men. The woods, the streams, everything on it belongs to everybody and is for the use of all. How can one man say it belongs only to him?" -Massasoit

"One does not sell the land people walk on." --Crazy Horse

"We do not own the freshness of the air or the sparkle of the water. How can you buy them from us?" -Sealth

"My reason teaches me that land cannot be sold. The Great Spirit gave it to his children to live upon. So long as they occupy and cultivate it, they have a right to the soil. Nothing can be sold but such things as can be carried away" --Black Hawk

"We know our lands have now become more valuable. The white people think we do not know their value; but we know that the land is everlasting, and the few goods we receive for it are soon worn out and gone." -- Canassatego

"I love this land and the buffalo and will not part with it…I have heard you intend to settle us on a reservation near the mountains. I don't want to settle. I love to roam over the prairies. There I feel free and happy, but when we settle down we grow pale and die. A long time ago this land belonged to our fathers, but when I go up to the river I see camps of soldiers on its banks. These soldiers cut down my timber, they kill my buffalo and when I see that, my heart feels like bursting." -- Satanta, Kiowa Chief

"They made us many promises, more than I can remember, but they never kept but one: they promised to take our land and they took it. It was not hard to see that the white people coveted every inch of land on which we lived. Greed. Humans wanted the last bit of ground which supported Indian feet. It was land - it has ever been land - for which the White man oppresses the Indian and to gain possession of which he commits any crime. Treaties that have been made are vain attempts to save a little of the fatherland, treaties holy to us by the smoke of the pipe - but nothing is holy to the white man. Little by little, with greed and cruelty unsurpassed by the animal, he has taken all. The loaf is gone and now the white man wants the crumbs." --Luther Standing Bear

And for the Tories amongst us, a quote from Winston Churchill:

"To jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war."

So let's talk.

The First Nations waged war against each other over territory and land. Even they controlled land and territory.

The only acceptable outcome for Argentina at this time is the expulsion of all who currently live there. And the raising of the Argentine flag.

Edited by Thanato
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The Angles, the Saxons, the Vikings, the Romans, and various other dudes are all queueing up to get their place back.

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The Angles, the Saxons, the Vikings, the Romans, and various other dudes are all queueing up to get their place back.

Thought it was about Native Americans?

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Thought it was about Native Americans?

It's just about the idiocy of owning land, of thinking that a people have a right to a particular area because of historic occupation.

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So let's talk.

So what would they talk about? Argentina has no legit claims, and the Falklanders want to stay with the UK. There's nothing to talk about.

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So what would they talk about? Argentina has no legit claims, and the Falklanders want to stay with the UK. There's nothing to talk about.

thats a simplistic view. It's about the sea, the drilling rights, the commercial exploitation etc. the islands are over 8,000 miles away from the UK and it currently takes a day and a half to two days to fly there. There is very little there which will assist or enable any development. Still don't want to talk to the locals?

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thats a simplistic view. It's about the sea, the drilling rights, the commercial exploitation etc. the islands are over 8,000 miles away from the UK and it currently takes a day and a half to two days to fly there. There is very little there which will assist or enable any development. Still don't want to talk to the locals?

are you the worlds number one fan of corn beef or something?

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Didn't know this untill i read the wiki on the Falklands war, at the time Argentina was wary of a possible attack by The Chileans, which may have been a factor on the outcome of the Falklands because, Argentina left their best units on the mainland and near the border with Chile.

"Anglo-Chilean relations had been deteriorating since the Sheila Cassidy Affair in 1973.[14]

In 1982, Argentina went to war against the United Kingdom in the Falklands War. The Argentine plan included the military occupation of the disputed islands at the Beagle channel after the invasion of the Falklands, as stated by Brigadier Basilio Lami Dozo, chief of the Argentine Air Force during the Falklands war, in an interview with the Argentine magazine Perfil: L.F. Galtieri said: "[Chile] have to know that what we are doing now, because they will be the next in turn..[15]

In 1982, Argentina still secretly considered Chile an enemy.[16] Chile, perhaps suspecting an Argentine invasion,[17] argued that it was not bound to support Argentina against the UK under the Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance because that treaty was defensive in nature, while Argentina was the aggressor in this case and both Chile and Argentina deployed their respective militaries to the border.

The common challenge made the chance of military co-operation between the UK and Chile a distinct possibility and during the war Chile provided the UK with limited, but significant information.[3] One of the reasons given for the absence of the Argentine Navy and higher numbers of professional soldiers during the Falklands War was that these forces had to be kept in reserve in case they were needed against Chile."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beagle_conflict#Papal_mediation_1979-1984

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Yes, see, being best mates with that lovable humanitarian Pinochet paid off.

But it's interesting that people say that it would be absolutely vile and disgusting to imagine co-operating with, say, Assad or with Iran against ISIS, on the grounds that they're foul Tyrants, isn't it.

Edited by Norbert Dentressangle
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thats a simplistic view

The hell it is. The islands and surrounding territory are UK possessions. How is it so hard to comprehend that?

It's about the sea, the drilling rights, the commercial exploitation etc. the islands are over 8,000 miles away from the UK and it currently takes a day and a half to two days to fly there.

So what? Hawaii is pretty far from the US. Should it not be a state then? Distance does not dictate possession.

There is very little there which will assist or enable any development. Still don't want to talk to the locals?

The locals? The Falklanders that want to stay with the UK and don't want to be part of Argentina? Those locals?

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Didn't know this untill i read the wiki on the Falklands war, at the time Argentina was wary of a possible attack by The Chileans, which may have been a factor on the outcome of the Falklands because, Argentina left their best units on the mainland and near the border with Chile.

This was because Argentina and Chile had a long-standing territorial dispute over the delineation of the border in the Andes as well as disputed territory in the Tierra del Fuego region at the southern tip of the continent (they came to blows in what became known as the Beagle Conflict).

Argentina's best units were kept there not because of a threat of Chilean invasion, but because of Argentina's plans to invade Chile. This was part of a build-up for "Operation Sovereignty", the planned invasion of Chile. However, Argentinian military intelligence and advisers assessed the Chilean military and decided against invasion, principally because the Chilean military was better equipped and better trained and thus, an invasion would have been a fruitless exercise. Argentina decided to invade the Falklands instead. Which turned out to be just as fruitless.

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Oil and gas Breakthrough off Falkland Islands

British exploration companies strike oil off the Falkland Islands in a successful start to a new drilling campaign.

A group of British exploration companies have discovered oil and gas in an offshore area north of the Falkland Islands.

Falkland Oil and Gas, which shares the exploration area with Rockhopper and Premier Oil, said the 'Zebedee' exploration well was "better than expected".The London-listed oil explorers found an oil reservoir 25 metres thick and a gas deposit 17.5m thick sandwiched between sands. The well was drilled on a licence area that is 40pc owned by Falkland Oil and Gas, 36pc Premier Oil, and 24pc Rockhopper Exploration.

Samuel Moody, chief executive at Rockhopper, said: "This is a fantastic start to the 2015 Falklands drilling campaign and provides early proof of the significant remaining potential of the North Falkland Basin."

"The new discoveries add to our already significant resources we have discovered in the basin and we now look forward to drilling the higher risk Isobel prospect before the rig moves to drill in the South Falkland Basin," added Mr Moody

And in response to this NEWS. Argentina - El Presidente Cristina Kirchner.

Buenos Aires is looking to sue London for British firms' exploration in the Falklands, as two companies announce they have discovered valuable reserves

Argentina has announced that it is planning to take legal action against the UK for its oil exploration around the Falklands,“The president has announced that the government will in the coming days renew legal action against the UK’s intention to explore illegally the waters around the Malvinas Islands,” “It also implies a tremendous risk to the environment.

“The objective of this criminal complaint from the republic of Argentina is to prevent the exploitation of resources which belong to our 40 million compatriots, and to see that the owners of these businesses be tried according to Argentine and international law.”

http://www.telegraph...s-drilling.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk...merica-32171271

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The hell it is. The islands and surrounding territory are UK possessions. How is it so hard to comprehend that?

So what? Hawaii is pretty far from the US. Should it not be a state then? Distance does not dictate possession.

The locals? The Falklanders that want to stay with the UK and don't want to be part of Argentina? Those locals?

Amazing. You miss every point.

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Amazing. You miss every point.

No I did not. You seem to want to ignore reality.

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And in response to this NEWS. Argentina - El Presidente Cristina Kirchner.

Tough **** Argentina, that oil and gas belongs to the Falklands and the UK. The way things are currently in the UK, perhaps a scrap with the Argies will unite the people. Currently it feels like we're the dis-united kingdom.

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The Falkland Islands where in British hands long before Argentina even existed.

That isn't necessarily true:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina "The country has its roots in Spanish colonization of the region beginning in 1512. Argentina rose as the successor state of the Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata, a Spanish overseas colony founded in 1776."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Falkland_Islands "France established a colony on the islands in 1764. In 1765, a British captain claimed the islands for Britain."

So, unless you believe 9-11 years equates to "long before", the Falkland Islands where NOT in British hands long before Argentina even existed.

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Land. You live on it. You don't own it. Some Native American comments about land ownership:

That has to be...the...stupidest thing I ever read on this site. Land, I f-ing OWN a lot of it, and I live on very little of it. My brother even owns an island and lives on that - WTF, how can you say "you don't own it"?! Native Americans have a much different view, e.g., religious, that shapes their ideas of land, nature, etc...as well as ownership itself.

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Britain is not obligated in any way to budge one inch and give in to any of Argentina's ridiculous claims.

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That isn't necessarily true:

http://en.wikipedia....Argentina "The country has its roots in Spanish colonization of the region beginning in 1512. Argentina rose as the successor state of the Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata, a Spanish overseas colony founded in 1776."

http://en.wikipedia....slands "France established a colony on the islands in 1764. In 1765, a British captain claimed the islands for Britain."

So, unless you believe 9-11 years equates to "long before", the Falkland Islands where NOT in British hands long before Argentina even existed.

Well, it's fairly difficult to draw a direct line of descent between the modern Argentine republic and the United Provinces, especially considering that neither state has the same land borders. In fact, the only common line between the list of states between the United Provinces and modern Argentina is having Buenos Aires as its capital and even then, there's always an exception.

Argentina's principal claim to the islands is from the settlement established by Louis Vernet, which wasn't done in the name of the United Provinces and was intending on becoming more or less a British protectorate should they return.

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That isn't necessarily true:

http://en.wikipedia....Argentina "The country has its roots in Spanish colonization of the region beginning in 1512. Argentina rose as the successor state of the Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata, a Spanish overseas colony founded in 1776."

http://en.wikipedia....slands "France established a colony on the islands in 1764. In 1765, a British captain claimed the islands for Britain."

So, unless you believe 9-11 years equates to "long before", the Falkland Islands where NOT in British hands long before Argentina even existed.

Any plans to give Texas back to the Mexicans. I thought not.

Anyway back to the Falklands, Like i said Argentina never existed when the Islands where in British Hands. We all know where the Argentinian heritage comes from. But the facts are - The Falklands had no indigenous population.

important dates below.

1592 First recorded sighting on August 14, by English sea captain John Davis in the ship ‘Desire’.

1594 First recorded claim on February 2, by Richard Hawkins for Queen Elizabeth I

1690 First recorded landing made by English navigator, Captain John Strong in his ship the ‘Welfare’. He named the channel dividing the two main islands ‘Falkland Sound’ after Viscount Falkland, then Treasurer of the Royal Navy. Over the years several French ships visited the Islands, which they called Les Iles Malouines after the French port of St. Malo.

1740 Lord Anson passed the Islands on an exploration voyage and urged Britain to consider them as a preliminary step to establishing a base near Cape Horn.

1764 The French diplomat and explorer, Louis Antoine de Bougainville, established a settlement at Port Louis on East Falkland.

1765 Unaware of the French settlement, Commodore John Byron landed at Port Egmont on West Falkland and took possession of the Islands for the British Crown.

1766 Captain John MacBride established a British settlement at Port Egmont.

The Spanish Government protested about the French settlement and Bougainville was forced to surrender his interests in the Islands in return for an agreed sum of money. A Spanish Governor was appointed and Port Louis was renamed Puerto de la Soledad, and placed under the jurisdiction of the Captain-General of Buenos Aires; then a Spanish colony.

1770 British forced from Port Egmont by the Spanish.

1771 Serious diplomatic negotiations involving Britain, Spain and France produce the Exchange of Declarations, whereby Port Egmont was restored to Britain.

1774 Britain withdrew from Port Egmont on economic grounds as part of a redeployment of forces due to the approaching American War of Independence, leaving behind a plaque as the mark of continuing British sovereignty.

1786 Lieutenant Thomas Edgar RN charts West Falkland island.

1811 The Spanish garrison withdrew from Puerto de la Soledad. At this time, South American colonies were in a state of revolt against Spain.

1816 The provinces which constituted the old Spanish vice-royalty declared independence from Spain as the United Provinces of the River Plate. Spain refused to recognise any such independence.

1820 A Buenos Aires privateer claimed the Falkland Islands in what was probably an unauthorised act – which was never reported to the Buenos Aires government. No occupation followed this.

1823 A private attempt was made to establish a settlement on the Islands, but this failed after a few months. The organisers requested the Buenos Aires government to appoint one of their employees the unpaid ‘Commander’ of the settlement.

1825 Britain and the Government of Buenos Aires signed a Treaty of Amity, Trade and Navigation without including and recognition of territory or legal rights.

1826 Louis Vernet, a naturalised citizen of Buenos Aires (originally French with German connections), undertook a private venture and established a new settlement at Puerto de la Soledad, having first informed the British Consul.

1829 Buenos Aires announced a claim to the Falkland Islands based on inheritance from Spain. Luis Vernet was appointed unpaid Commander of Soledad and Tierra del Fuego. Britain registered a formal protest, asserting her own sovereignty over the Falkland Islands.

Vernet made the first of several approaches to Britain then to re-assert its sovereignty over the Islands. Earlier he had got the British Consul in Buenos Aires to countersign his land grants.

1831 Vernet seized three American sealing ships, in an attempt to control fishing in Falkland waters. In retaliation, the US sloop ‘Lexington’ destroyed Puerto de la Soledad, and proclaimed the Islands ‘free of all government’. Most of the settlers were persuaded to leave on board the ‘Lexington’.

1832 Diplomatic relations between the US and Argentina broke down until 1844. Supporting Britain, the US questioned the claim that all Spanish possessions had been transferred to the Government of Buenos Aires and confirmed its use of the Falklands as a fishing base for over 50 years. The US declared that Spain had exercised no sovereignty over several coasts to which Buenos Aires claimed to be heir, including Patagonia.

Buenos Aires appointed an interim Commander to the Islands, Commander Mestivier, who arrived in October (with a tiny garrison and some convicts). Britain’s Minister protested once more. December 20, Commander Onslow, aboard Clio, returned to Port Egmont and rebuilds the fort.

1833 Commander Mestivier had been murdered by his own men by the time Captain Onslow sailed from Port Egmont in the warship ‘Clio’ and took command of Port Louis for Britain. The remains of the garrison from Buenos Aires left peacefully.

Buenos Aires protested, only to be told: “The British Government upon this occasion has only exercised its full and undoubted right … The British Government at one time thought it inexpedient to maintain any Garrison in those Islands: It has now altered its views, and has deemed it proper to establish a Post there.”

Since this time, British administration has remained unbroken apart from a ten week Argentine occupation in 1982.

1845 Stanley officially became the capital of the Islands when Governor Moody moved the administration from Port Louis. The capital was so named after the Colonial Secretary of the day, Edward Geoffrey Smith Stanley, 14th Earl of Derby.

1914 Battle of the Falkland Islands, one of the major naval engagements of the First World War in which British victory secured the Cape Horn passage for the remainder of the war.

1947 The Falkland Islands are listed at the United Nations as a Non-Self Governing Territory (NSGT) subject to the UN’s decolonisation process.

1960 UN Resolution 1514 grants the right of Self-Determination to all peoples of NSGTs.

1965 United Nations Assembly passed Resolution 2065, following lobbying by Argentina. This reminded members of the organisation’s pledge to end all forms of colonialism. Argentine and British Governments were called upon to negotiate a peaceful solution to the sovereignty dispute, bringing the issue to international attention formally for the first time.

1966 Through diplomatic channels, Britain and Argentina began discussions in response to UN Assembly pressure.

1967 The Falkland Islands Emergency Committee was set up by influential supporters in the UK to lobby the British Government against any weakening on the sovereignty issue. In April, the Foreign Secretary assured the House of Commons that the Islanders’ interests were paramount in any discussions with Argentina.

1971 Communications Agreement was signed by the British and Argentine governments whereby external communications would be provided to the Falkland Islands by Argentina.

1982 On 2 April Argentina invaded the Falkland Islands and diplomatic relations between the two nations were broken off. Argentine troops occupied the Islands for ten weeks before being defeated by the British. The Argentines surrendered on 14 June, now known as Liberation Day.

1990 Diplomatic relations between Britain and Argentina were restored.

1999 At the instigation of, and with the involvement of, Falkland Islands Councillors, a Joint Statement was signed between the British and Argentine Governments on 14 July. This was designed ‘to build confidence and reduce tension’ between the Islands and Argentina. Two Councillors from the Islands witnessed the signing on behalf of the Falkland Islands Government.

2009 Following almost ten years of discussion and negotiation, a new Constitution for the Falkland Islands took effect on 1 January 2009. Marking an important milestone in the history of the Falkland Islands, the new Constitution provides enhanced local democracy and internal self-government, and enshrines the right of self-determination.

2013 Referendum held in March, overseen by international observers. Falkland Islanders voted to determine their future, 99.8% of the electorate voted YES to maintaining current political status as a British Overseas Territory.

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Any plans to give Texas back to the Mexicans. I thought not.

Texas won it's own independence. You try and give it back to Mexico, I dare you...

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