Germanwings airliner crashes in French Alps

[Tiggs]

Well, we wouldn't want his feelings being hurt, so I think this is a good policy... NOT! Is the medical privacy of a pilot worth 150 lives?

What's the US Policy on that?

Edit to add:

Screenings are rare in most places. In the United States, the Federal Aviation Administration mandates that commercial pilots partake in annual or semiannual physical examinations (depending on their age). But they're not required to go through regular psychological checks

Source: Vox

Edited March 31, 2015 by Tiggs

[+DieChecker]

What's the US Policy on that?

Edit to add:

Screenings are rare in most places. In the United States, the Federal Aviation Administration mandates that commercial pilots partake in annual or semiannual physical examinations (depending on their age). But they're not required to go through regular psychological checks

Source: Vox

They are also required to never be left alone in the cockpit.

The US has programs to treat pilots for mental issues, and allow them to fly with certain medications, but Europe does not. Mr Lubitz, if anyone found out he was on medication, or seeing a doctor for mental issues, or if his eyesight issues were found out... He was Done. Self reporting is becoming more common in the US, and Canada and Australia, which is the only real way to get pilots mental help, yet allow them to keep their profession.

http://www.wired.com/2015/03/no-way-screen-every-pilot-mental-illness/

Edited March 31, 2015 by DieChecker

[Tiggs]

They are also required to never be left alone in the cockpit.

That does seem a better policy.

The US has programs to treat pilots for mental issues, and allow them to fly with certain medications, but Europe does not. Mr Lubitz, if anyone found out he was on medication, or seeing a doctor for mental issues, or if his eyesight issues were found out... He was Done. Self reporting is becoming more common in the US, and Canada and Australia, which is the only real way to get pilots mental help, yet allow them to keep their profession.

But, essentially - it's still self-reporting. I note that article you've linked says:

In short, pilots must self-report mental health issues—issues that could mean losing their flight certification.

I understand the argument that taking anti-depressants is career-ending in Europe and not in the US - but it would appear that certain mental health issues in the US would result in losing your flight certification, too.

[Space Commander Travis]

All these leaks are completely out of the norm for transportation safety investigations.

They might as well just leak the whole file now, and wipe away everybody's question marks. Let us hear the whole conversation for ourselves, including the screams in the background, because that's what the public demands. We all know that sex and violence feed the media frenzy every day.

The whole issue of premeditation seems to be mitigated by this "bathroom break" part of the conversation. The copilot couldn't have known that the guy would take a bathroom break mid-flight, given the conversation that is being quoted.

If true, then a twist of fate may have played a role in this crash, which adds a whole other element to the mix.

I agree,it seems the exact opposite of a proper scientific crash investigation, of carefully analysing and reconstructing all the evidence before coming to a conclusion. This seems to have been a soap opera deliberately designed to tantalise the public, from releasing the dramatic revelation of the pilot desperately hammering on the cockpit door while the plane inexorably heads towards its doom, the trial and conviction of Andreas Lubitz, never mind all that tedious time-consuming business of a fair posthumous trial and the ethics of convicting someone who's in no position to offer any defense. The whole thing is quite disgraceful really. Perhaps they decided how unsatisfactory it was not to ever find anything out about MH370 (although that of course didn't stop them convicting Captain Shah on absolutely no evidence at all), and that the public really needed something dramatic and exciting to be thrown to them, and a really satisfactory villain they could vilify - they, er, deserved to know all the facts as quickly as possible. Edited March 31, 2015 by Norbert Dentressangle

[Tiggs]

I agree,it seems the exact opposite of a proper scientific crash investigation, of carefully analysing and reconstructing all the evidence before coming to a conclusion.

It's entirely unusual for details of the cockpit conversation (or much or anything) to be released to the public while the investigation is ongoing.

It would appear that a transcript of the cockpit recording was leaked to Bild - Germany's largest newspaper and the New York Times received a summary from a senior French military official as to it's contents.

Cat's out of the bag at that point.

[skookum]

Where did you get that he was an Islamic convert?

In some of the articles I have read. I think they were suggesting he converted to Islam when he was dropped from the Lufthansa flight school.

I take what they have written with a pinch of salt. It all seems a bit convenient nowadays to blame everything that may involve mass murder and suicide on Islamic radicalization.

[docyabut2]

http://www.cnn.com/2...main/index.html

Lubitz had visited an eye doctor because of vision problems, a European government official familiar with the investigation told CNN.

The pilot complained he was not seeing as he should, but the doctor told him the cause was psychosomatic, the official said. In part because of this, the doctor deemed Lubitz unfit for flying.

There you go, a Eye doctor deemed him unfit to fly, because he was complaining of not seeing as he should. There's nothing saying he was suicidal at the time. He may have had a visual problem that cause him to crash the plane. It does make sense that the captain told him to prepare for landing when he left the cockpit as what he did do. Perhaps he was not just not seeing far away as to where the plane was. And then lost all vision

Edited March 31, 2015 by docyabut2

[questionmark]

In some of the articles I have read. I think they were suggesting he converted to Islam when he was dropped from the Lufthansa flight school.

I take what they have written with a pinch of salt. It all seems a bit convenient nowadays to blame everything that may involve mass murder and suicide on Islamic radicalization.

You might take that for what it is: Islamphobic boollcrappy.

[docyabut2]

http://www.cnn.com/2...main/index.html

Lubitz had visited an eye doctor because of vision problems, a European government official familiar with the investigation told CNN.

The pilot complained he was not seeing as he should, but the doctor told him the cause was psychosomatic, the official said. In part because of this, the doctor deemed Lubitz unfit for flying.

There you go, a Eye doctor deemed him unfit to fly, because he was complaining of not seeing as he should. There's nothing saying he was suicidal at the time. He may have had a visual problem that cause him to crash the plane. It does make sense that the captain told him to prepare for landing when he left the cockpit as what he did do. Perhaps he was not just not seeing far away as to where the plane was. And then lost all vision

To add the relaxed breathing, who could have relaxed breathing seeing they are going to crash into something, suicidal or not.?

[questionmark]

To add the relaxed breathing, who could have relaxed breathing seeing they are going to crash into something, suicidal or not.?

The latest when he should have freaked is when B!tching Betty was calling out: "Ground, pull up". Evidently he did not.

[skookum]

http://www.cnn.com/2...main/index.html

Lubitz had visited an eye doctor because of vision problems, a European government official familiar with the investigation told CNN.

The pilot complained he was not seeing as he should, but the doctor told him the cause was psychosomatic, the official said. In part because of this, the doctor deemed Lubitz unfit for flying.

There you go, a Eye doctor deemed him unfit to fly, because he was complaining of not seeing as he should. There's nothing saying he was suicidal at the time. He may have had a visual problem that cause him to crash the plane. It does make sense that the captain told him to prepare for landing when he left the cockpit as what he did do. Perhaps he was not just not seeing far away as to where the plane was. And then lost all vision

Loss of eyesight doesn't really explain why he locked the captain out.

[Babe Ruth]

The min the captain left the cockpit he was suppose to lock the door in case of terrorists ,and was told to prepare for landing. That fact that he had visions problems says a lot and saw doctors in February and March for it. The bodies were so polarized by the impact, we will never know what he was experiencing in trying to prepare for that landing. Sorry guys but I just don't believe he did it deliberately.

One does not "prepare for landing" at TOC, Top Of Climb. They were only 30 minutes into a 2+ hour flight.

I am not surprised that some posters are now blaming it on islam. Embrace your inner cowards, islamophobes.

[Raptor Witness]

We keep hearing over and over that these pilots think they are capable of policing themselves, with respect to their psychological profiles.

The truth is, there's no way to predict irrational behavior. Anyone capable of flying an airplane is capable of lying and flying well under the radar.

The best thing they could do is release the sounds of the people screaming, which might rattle the consciences of a few people thinking about doing something like this.

If it was one of my family members, I would demand that they release those tapes, so everyone could hear the horror.

Shame is more powerful than fear. It's what brings conscience to the table. Without it, nothing is learned from this, except that crazy, won.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Raptor Witness

[tyrant lizard]

But those screams didnt do very much to put this pilot off. Why would it have a positive effect on anyone else?

[+DieChecker]

That does seem a better policy.

But, essentially - it's still self-reporting. I note that article you've linked says:

In short, pilots must self-report mental health issues—issues that could mean losing their flight certification.

I understand the argument that taking anti-depressants is career-ending in Europe and not in the US - but it would appear that certain mental health issues in the US would result in losing your flight certification, too.

But in the US and other places the self reporting doesn't result in the level of difficulties to keep your job as is seen in Europe. But, you are right that the system still requires one to report themselves, and many (especially the mentally unsound) probably would not do so.

[Space Commander Travis]

We keep hearing over and over that these pilots think they are capable of policing themselves, with respect to their psychological profiles.

The truth is, there's no way to predict irrational behavior. Anyone capable of flying an airplane is capable of lying and flying well under the radar.

The best thing they could do is release the sounds of the people screaming, which might rattle the consciences of a few people thinking about doing something like this.

If it was one of my family members, I would demand that they release those tapes, so everyone could hear the horror.

Shame is more powerful than fear. It's what brings conscience to the table. Without it, nothing is learned from this, except that crazy, won.

What would be the help to humanity by allowing people to hear the horror? Actually the whole business of these "leaked tapes" sounds immensely fishy to me. We're expected to believe that they could hear Lubitz breathing calmly and normally as he coolly sets course for destruction. How could they possibly tell his state of mind from that? The only evidence of sinister intent is that they tell us he locked the door and reset the autopilot. Given how unscientific and unprofessional these investigators, who seem more like tabloid journalists falling over each other to reveal the big scoop, can we really trust them in that?

[Merc14]

What would be the help to humanity by allowing people to hear the horror? Actually the whole business of these "leaked tapes" sounds immensely fishy to me. We're expected to believe that they could hear Lubitz breathing calmly and normally as he coolly sets course for destruction. How could they possibly tell his state of mind from that? The only evidence of sinister intent is that they tell us he locked the door and reset the autopilot. Given how unscientific and unprofessional these investigators, who seem more like tabloid journalists falling over each other to reveal the big scoop, can we really trust them in that?

I can't wait till you finally present your theory.

[Tiggs]

But in the US and other places the self reporting doesn't result in the level of difficulties to keep your job as is seen in Europe. But, you are right that the system still requires one to report themselves, and many (especially the mentally unsound) probably would not do so.

It's problematic. Even if they gave them full psychological tests every year - which the FAA claim that they don't have the resources to do - that's still enough time for someone to become mentally unstable within.

[toast]

It's problematic. Even if they gave them full psychological tests every year - which the FAA claim that they don't have the resources

to do - that's still enough time for someone to become mentally unstable within.

In addition, even psychologists cannot "read" a humans mind like a doctor can measure the blood pressure. And a psychological

evaluation needs the assistance of the patient himself but if a pilot, and pilots are smart in general, plays his role some kind of good,

no psychologists would be able to judge if s/he may use a fully occupied commercial airliner for suicide.

Edited March 31, 2015 by toast

[docyabut2]

Something tells me he could`nt see very well that day in pushing buttons,and not in his right mind when the captain told him to take over, prepare for landing . He didn't see what he was doing, after all that's the reason the eye Doctor excuse him that day for his eye problem.

[psyche101]

In some of the articles I have read. I think they were suggesting he converted to Islam when he was dropped from the Lufthansa flight school.

I take what they have written with a pinch of salt. It all seems a bit convenient nowadays to blame everything that may involve mass murder and suicide on Islamic radicalization.

That certainly seems to be the case here, Islam made a really bad name for itself and now everyone is keen to jump on the bandwagon, I can see why, but we should at least try and allow common sense to prevail so it does not make things worse all round. As bad as Islam can behave, there are innocents who take exception to the situations that the significant minority instigate. Not sure how much of a case they have, but all the same, it seems pretty cut and dry that Islam is not involved in this one.

[Likely Guy]

Something tells me he could`nt see very well that day in pushing buttons,and not in his right mind when the captain told him to take over, prepare for landing . He didn't see what he was doing, after all that's the reason the eye Doctor excuse him that day for his eye problem.

Where did you get the "prepare for landing" stuff from?

[Tiggs]

Where did you get the "prepare for landing" stuff from?

The pilot left to go to the toilet after the mid-flight briefing, when the landing would have been discussed.

They were in the French Alps at the time and heading to Dusseldorf in Germany. They weren't preparing to land.

[Likely Guy]

The pilot left to go to the toilet after the mid-flight briefing, when the landing would have been discussed.

They were in the French Alps at the time and heading to Dusseldorf in Germany. They weren't preparing to land.

Exactly. As Babe Ruth said earlier (page 2 or 3) they were 30 minutes into a two hour flight, still ascending. That's why I'm still curious as to where docy got this tidbit from.

Edit: Which has been requested twice.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Likely Guy

[Tiggs]

Exactly. As Babe Ruth said earlier (page 2 or 3) they were 30 minutes into a two hour flight, still ascending. That's why I'm still curious as to where docy got this tidbit from.

From the discussion of the landing, I'd imagine, and extrapolated from there.