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Germanwings airliner crashes in French Alps


Moon Gazer
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Just read an article claiming that one of the pilots can be heard banging on the door to be let back in while the plane was crashing, so he got locked out.

link

So either the doors are auto-locking and the co-pilot had some kind medical emergency which incapacitated him, or the co-pilot locked the door and did it on purpose.

There is something wrong here. There is a bypass for the lock in the event that there was no response from the cockpit.

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Maybe retaliation yet again against French Cartoonists....

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Just read an article claiming that one of the pilots can be heard banging on the door to be let back in while the plane was crashing, so he got locked out.

link

So either the doors are auto-locking and the co-pilot had some kind medical emergency which incapacitated him, or the co-pilot locked the door and did it on purpose.

I read that too. And I've made the same deductions you have. With more information we'll know if the pilot might have had a medical emergency. He may even have fallen asleep in my opinion. It only took a few minutes for them to angle down into the mountain.

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Maybe retaliation yet again against French Cartoonists....

Yes, a German plane going from Spain to Germany. Perhaps they were hoping that it would crash in Paris? :unsure:
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Just read an article claiming that one of the pilots can be heard banging on the door to be let back in while the plane was crashing, so he got locked out.

link

So either the doors are auto-locking and the co-pilot had some kind medical emergency which incapacitated him, or the co-pilot locked the door and did it on purpose.

So where did these "investigators" get this information from? The cockpit voice recorders? So they've jumped the gun and released this tantalising snippet ahead of the official investigation? That's a very unprofessional and very unscientific way to behave, if, of course, it is anything other than a load of flannel.
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So where did these "investigators" get this information from? The cockpit voice recorders? So they've jumped the gun and released this tantalising snippet ahead of the official investigation? That's a very unprofessional and very unscientific way to behave, if, of course, it is anything other than a load of flannel.

Agreed this is very worrying.

Again I know nothing about the engineering on the aircraft but you would think that the switch that locks the keypad on the door is not going to be somewhere it can be activated unless you consciously want too. I have seen myself pilots leave the cockpit and a member of cabin crew go in whilst the pilot is out.

Assuming he was in there on his own it is either a medical emergency or he purposely crashed the aircraft. Or possibly another member of crew or passenger got in there (the latter unlikely) and incapacitated the remaining pilot and crashed the plane.

Whichever, on the back of the possible suicidal pilot on MH370 this is looking like a bizarre time in aviation.

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Agreed this is very worrying.

Again I know nothing about the engineering on the aircraft but you would think that the switch that locks the keypad on the door is not going to be somewhere it can be activated unless you consciously want too. I have seen myself pilots leave the cockpit and a member of cabin crew go in whilst the pilot is out.

Assuming he was in there on his own it is either a medical emergency or he purposely crashed the aircraft. Or possibly another member of crew or passenger got in there (the latter unlikely) and incapacitated the remaining pilot and crashed the plane.

Whichever, on the back of the possible suicidal pilot on MH370 this is looking like a bizarre time in aviation.

The Pilot has absolute control over access to the flight deck. An officer outside the flight deck can request access. In the event that there is no reaction from the flight deck then an override can be triggered but this cannot override a decision from the flight deck.

There will have been no passenger access to the flight deck except in assisting flight crew.

These are systems that were put in place as a result of 9/11. They are tried and tested and they work. It is, I suppose, possible that the system failed at a critical time but I have never heard of such a failure before.

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I am just hoping that this was some electrical malfunction that caused the plane to crash and the second pilot was unlucky enough to be out of the cockpit at the time, or the pilot too ill very quickly (heart attack or something) and was unable to control the plane and not well enough or conscious to be able to let the other pilot in. If it does turn out to be deliberate that would be just terrible :(

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Leaves very few possibilities really if malfunction is ruled out. Even if it was a malfunction, seriously what are the chances of this coinciding with a pilot falling ill alone.

He fell ill whilst alone and accidentaly hit the switch. Or he deliberately hit the switch with the intent of crashing the plane.

Surely a well trained pilot who was in distress would stay as far away from the switch as possible.

The Airbus locking procedure can be seen here in a rather cheesy video.

Edited by skookum
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Does anyone know how the pilot would have given access to the other pilot? Is it a switch / button that is pressed from where they sit or do they have to physically go and open the door?

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The rule is some one is suppose to go into the locked cockpit when one of the pilots leave, in case the pilots do get sick or has other problem. In this case so why didn't that someone open that door, when the pilot that had left was knocking and trying to smash the door down?

Edited by docyabut2
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Does anyone know how the pilot would have given access to the other pilot? Is it a switch / button that is pressed from where they sit or do they have to physically go and open the door?

No. It is required that they can oversee it all from their seat.

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The rule is some one is suppose to go into the locked cockpit when one of the pilots leave, in case the pilots do get sick or has other problem. In this case so why didn't that someone open that door, when the pilot that had left was knocking and trying to smash the door down?

Sorry but this is incorrect. The European rules do not require a FA to go into the cockpit when one of the flight crew needs to leave.

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No. It is required that they can oversee it all from their seat.

From watching that Airbus video I posted am I correct in thinking even if they override the emergency code from inside the cockpit it times out after 5 minutes allowing the emergency code to be entered again.

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The news this morning suggests one of the pilots was locked out of the cockpit. Evidence from one of the black boxes that he politely tapped on door asking for admittance and getting no reply. Knocked harder, still no reply. Ended with him battering at door and shouting. No idea if this is 'gossip' or based on fact but either the pilot in the cockpit was unconscious through a medical emergency or was deliberately locking himself in to perhaps commit suicide. I find this event as one of the most cowardly ways to choose to go. Commit the act if you feel you must but why take all those innocent and blameless people with you. I do not believe in an afterlife but in cases like this hell seems too mild a consequence for him/her.

Sorry - typed this in before reading all the posts. Sorry to duplicate stuff.

Edited by Susanc241
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The news this morning suggests one of the pilots was locked out of the cockpit. Evidence from one of the black boxes that he politely tapped on door asking for admittance and getting no reply. Knocked harder, still no reply. Ended with him battering at door and shouting. No idea if this is 'gossip' or based on fact but either the pilot in the cockpit was unconscious through a medical emergency or was deliberately locking himself in to perhaps commit suicide. I find this event as one of the most cowardly ways to choose to go. Commit the act if you feel you must but why take all those innocent and blameless people with you. I do not believe in an afterlife but in cases like this hell seems too mild a consequence for him/her.

I am striving to avoid speculation, merely commenting when others are pursuing an unlikely option.

The problem with pilot suicide is simple. Once having seized control of the aircraft, why follow a slow and graceful descent, allowing time for your plans to be foiled?

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The news this morning suggests one of the pilots was locked out of the cockpit. Evidence from one of the black boxes that he politely tapped on door asking for admittance and getting no reply. Knocked harder, still no reply. Ended with him battering at door and shouting. No idea if this is 'gossip' or based on fact but either the pilot in the cockpit was unconscious through a medical emergency or was deliberately locking himself in to perhaps commit suicide. I find this event as one of the most cowardly ways to choose to go. Commit the act if you feel you must but why take all those innocent and blameless people with you. I do not believe in an afterlife but in cases like this hell seems too mild a consequence for him/her.

I am striving to avoid speculation, merely commenting when others are pursuing an unlikely option.

The problem with pilot suicide is simple. Once having seized control of the aircraft, why follow a slow and graceful descent, allowing time for your plans to be foiled?

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The news this morning suggests one of the pilots was locked out of the cockpit. Evidence from one of the black boxes that he politely tapped on door asking

for admittance and getting no reply. Knocked harder, still no reply. Ended with him battering at door and shouting. No idea if this is 'gossip' or based on fact

but either the pilot in the cockpit was unconscious through a medical emergency or was deliberately locking himself in to perhaps commit suicide. I find this

event as one of the most cowardly ways to choose to go. Commit the act if you feel you must but why take all those innocent and blameless people with you.

I do not believe in an afterlife but in cases like this hell seems too mild a consequence for him/her.

The cockpit door issue was brought up by AFP/NYT yesterday. In that article a "senior French military" was quoted but not named so I dont think that we do

have any kind of evidence here. We will get evidence when the BEA (Le Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses), the organisation which do the read outs of the

flight recorders, and/or the BFU (German Federal Bureau of Aircraft Accidents Investigation) and/or the head of GermanWings will provide the results of the

read outs and further investigation results to the public. Until then, its all tea leaf reading, boosted by the media.

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Sorry but this is incorrect. The European rules do not require a FA to go into the cockpit when one of the flight crew needs to leave.

You`d think there would be some rules of not leaving one pilot alone in a locked cockpit.

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You`d think there would be some rules of not leaving one pilot alone in a locked cockpit.

Why? Short haul. The officer out of the cockpit should always be able to re-enter. Don't see the justification myself. You could go back to three flight crew with the consequential economic impact, but this would not necessarily solve the problem.

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Airbus Reinforced Cockpit Door Description and Procedure, including emergency access procedure (pilots down):

Edited by toast
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Why? Short haul. The officer out of the cockpit should always be able to re-enter. Don't see the justification myself. You could go back to three flight crew with the consequential economic impact, but this would not necessarily solve the problem.

Surely the simplest solution is to adopt the US system of having a member of the cabin crew in the cockpit whilst a pilot is absent. But then you could get into a situation where the cabin crew could be up to no good and disable the remaining pilot.

In all it is an absolute nightmare, trying to stop terrorism can give a would be terrorist or unstable person the ability to take over a plane.

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They are saying on the news right now it was the co pilot and he deliberately crashed the plane ! They can hear him breathing naturally.

Edited by docyabut2
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....and they could hear the passengers screaming at the end.

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