Germanwings airliner crashes in French Alps

[toast]

Toast - As you are in Germany can you confirm what the situation is with sick notes?

Would the pilot have been given it to pass on to his employer or should they have sent it directly?

Doc-employee (pilot)-employer is the procedure.

[Moon Gazer]

Doc-employee (pilot)-employer is the procedure.

Thanks for confirming that.

[toast]

All German and Austrian airlines implemented the 2 heads in the cockpit rule with immediate effect. The EASA is checking

to make the rule a general rule for all airlines in Europe.

(Well, so we have invested billions of EUROs in airplane development, airplanes related infrastructure and into airtravel security

as well but we didnt established this simple and stupid rule earlier.)

[odas]

Assuming this is the case it is totally ridiculous situation.

Yes if I am signed off it is up to me to inform my employers. But I am not in the situation where many lives depend on my mental competence. Surely if you are a commercial pilot a doctor should have to report ANY health issues that may effect your performance.

It is simply ridiculous to send them home with a sick note, again this is no doubt going to be down to patient confidentiality.

Yes, it is the same procedure here in Canada but, as you stated, in cases where lives depend on one person there should be a different kind of communication.

Maybe this will change too.

[skookum]

All German and Austrian airlines implemented the 2 heads in the cockpit rule with immediate effect. The EASA is checking

to make the rule a general rule for all airlines in Europe.

(Well, so we have invested billions of EUROs in airplane development, airplanes related infrastructure and into airtravel security

as well but we didnt established this simple and stupid rule earlier.)

Shutting the barn door after the horses have bolted.

Sorry but this scenario had obviously been thought of before as it is common practice in the USA.

This coupled by the possibility of German Wings being aware of his health issues is not looking good for them. It has come to light that he was previously deemed unfit to fly by Lufthansa flight school in Arizona due to his mental state.

How on Earth was this guy allowed to be behind the controls?

[toast]

This coupled by the possibility of German Wings being aware of his health issues is not looking good for them. It has come to light that he

was previously deemed unfit to fly by Lufthansa flight school in Arizona due to his mental state.

It has been confirmed the LH CEO that Lubitz interrupted his LH pilot training but the reason therefor wasnt mentioned, so its just hearsay yet.

[Raptor Witness]

Altered inhibitions is a real concern with some of the psychoactive substances used to treat depression.

[skookum]

It has been confirmed the LH CEO that Lubitz interrupted his LH pilot training but the reason therefor wasnt mentioned, so its just hearsay yet.

Absolutely, however if it was unrelated to mental health I personally think they would be setting the record straight to avoid the potential PR disaster they face.

What I mean by that if his training stopped because of a physical problem it would be probably prudent to mention that it was probably unconnected. In my mind not mentioning why is more likely it was connected to mental health rather than physical problems.

But you are right it is pure hearsay and speculation at this time.

[docyabut2]

I guess his friends are saying he was treated for mental problems. Sad but does explain it all. To bad employer's don't have access to medial records,( the privy act) like they do criminal records, But I guess that would put a lot of people out of worked, if they were redeem a danger to themselves and others. You just have to hope in flying, pilots don`t have synoptic break downs, there was one the other day in America. I glad Europe finally put the two rule in the cockpit.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/28/jetblue-passengers-pilot-breakdown-osbon

[Space Commander Travis]

whereas you have ranted throughout the WHOLE thread - which is NO surprise -

.

It's pages ago now, but what exactly have I ranted about, and how many times have I actually posted in this thread? Ranting about how about we wait for some facts before leaping to wild conclusions or siezing on the usual scapegoats? I know the old custom of waiting to find out solid facts before coming to any opinion is hopelessly old fashioned now.

[toast]

To bad employer's don't have access to medial records,( the privy act) like they do criminal records,

Oh no dude, thats a bad idea as medical records should and must kept confidential and they should only be communicated if the employee agreed in

written that a named 3rt party is allowed to get such data and only in cases where an information exchange is required.

And as for the criminal records, in my homecountry no "normal" employer has access to possible criminal records of an employee. Of course, an employer

can request a criminal record certificate from a job candidate, but thats all.

[Lilly]

Altered inhibitions is a real concern with some of the psychoactive substances used to treat depression.

He may have also had a psychotic breakdown of some type. I have a feeling no one will ever know for sure.

[+DieChecker]

It seems at this point that assertions of being a Muslim are still mostly rumor....

Thought assertions that he had mental issues are just about verified.

Either way, I still don't have any pity for the guy. Go jump off a bridge if you need to do yourself in.

[Raptor Witness]

He may have also had a psychotic breakdown of some type. I have a feeling no one will ever know for sure.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The ex girlfriends always like to talk, and talk now, they are.

I'm a firm believer In the Freudian line of thinking that behind every male, mass murder is a woman, he hated.

Nothing against women, but that's usually who they are actually killing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviation/11501075/Andreas-Lubitz-planned-spectacular-gesture-that-would-go-down-in-history-claims-ex-girlfriend.html

"Maria added: "He knew how to hide what was really going on and how hide it from other people."

She added: "When I heard about the crash, there was just a tape playing in my head of what he said: 'One day I will do something that will change the system and everyone will then know my name and remember me."

"I did not know what he meant by that at the time, but now it's clear."

Edited March 28, 2015 by Raptor Witness

[docyabut2]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The ex girlfriends always like to talk, and talk now, they are.

I'm a firm believer In the Freudian line of thinking that behind every male, mass murder is a woman, he hated.

Nothing against women, but that's usually who they are actually killing.

http://www.telegraph...girlfriend.html

"Maria added: "He knew how to hide what was really going on and how hide it from other people."

She added: "When I heard about the crash, there was just a tape playing in my head of what he said: 'One day I will do something that will change the system and everyone will then know my name and remember me."

"I did not know what he meant by that at the time, but now it's clear."

Thats the sad part that he was only thinking of his self and not all the people he was responsible for.

[Merc14]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The ex girlfriends always like to talk, and talk now, they are.

I'm a firm believer In the Freudian line of thinking that behind every male, mass murder is a woman, he hated.

Holy crap!!!! Wow! I, uh, nothing, just gonna watch.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Merc14

[toast]

http://www.telegraph...girlfriend.html

"Maria added: "He knew how to hide what was really going on and how hide it from other people."

And I have to add here that The Telegraph used the BILD newsletter as a source and the BILD newsletter is the worst

yellow press newsletter on the market in Germany.

[bee]

It seems at this point that assertions of being a Muslim are still mostly rumor....

Thought assertions that he had mental issues are just about verified.

Either way, I still don't have any pity for the guy. Go jump off a bridge if you need to do yourself in.

re underlined -

that does appear to be true at this point in time - but as I said in my earlier post - for purposes

of social engineering to me it looks like the 'authorities' will hide the facts about Islamic Jihad

Terror attacks (in the West) if they possible can -

In this article - which is fairly balanced about it all - they say -

http://www.freerepub...4/posts?page=20

As most readers are already aware, actual Islamic jihadists have wasted no time jubilantly claiming Lubitz as one of their own, creating social media pages heralding Lubitz as a hero for Islam, and celebrating the murders of so many innocent passengers and crew on behalf of their systematic Mohammedan terror reign.

(I personally haven't seen any of these 'media pages')

and here's a link about the alleged Facebook page -

http://www.fireandre...islamic-martyr/

now, of course, the Islamic Jihadists could just be jumping on the tragic, horrible incident and claiming it as a victory

and also it could have been created by anti-islam people - to inflame

but

it might also be true - we don't know yet and we may never know for sure ...?

After 9/11 Airlines all changed their planes so that the cockpit door could be locked -

Now if you were a scheming terrorist - what might be your response and next move to this be - ?

It COULD be to groom and radicalize and convert non muslims - maybe vulnerable ones -

who would be 'clean' in regards to being known and watched by the Intelligence Services -

With a view to converting / manipulating someone who could train or already be training - to be a pilot -

so that they could get a Jihadist inside the cockpit and when the opportunity arose they could bring the

plane down....

This is speculation obviously - but I expect the 'authorities' are considering this and

taking a good look at all pilots - just in case what I have speculated is a possibility -

.

Edited March 28, 2015 by bee

[questionmark]

re underlined -

that does appear to be true at this point in time - but as I said in my earlier post - for purposes

of social engineering to me it looks like the 'authorities' will hide the facts about Islamic Jihad

Terror attacks (in the West) if they possible can -

In this article - which is fairly balanced about it all - they say -

http://www.freerepub...4/posts?page=20

Nor will you, Mannheimer is one of the Chief Islamophobes who makes it up as he goes along... a little lie does not matter to him as long as it "helps his cause"

[bee]

Nor will you, Mannheimer is one of the Chief Islamophobes who makes it up as he goes along... a little lie does not matter to him as long as it "helps his cause"

Militant Islamic Jihadists despise and want to destroy (and take over) 'the West' particularly Europe.....?

I, personally, am more concerned with THAT cause -

(I have never heard of Mannheimer before the last couple of days - by the way)

And before Norbert starts going blue in the face - I am responding to Questionmark's post - hope that's ok with you

.

[Duke Wellington]

Oh no dude, thats a bad idea as medical records should and must kept confidential and they should only be communicated if the employee agreed in

written that a named 3rt party is allowed to get such data and only in cases where an information exchange is required.

And as for the criminal records, in my homecountry no "normal" employer has access to possible criminal records of an employee. Of course, an employer

can request a criminal record certificate from a job candidate, but thats all.

I think that employers should be able to check the mental health of their aircrew because a suicidal pilot can do a lot of damage killing a lot of people. If there's doubt with them then they should be grounded until a doctor is satisfied they are fit to fly. Of course I think that the mentally ill employee's rights need to be protected but they don't override the best interests of society. Not when so many people can die. In this instance the crew member should have been suspended on pay or given benefits until he was over his mental illness.

[Space Commander Travis]

re underlined -

that does appear to be true at this point in time - but as I said in my earlier post - for purposes

of social engineering to me it looks like the 'authorities' will hide the facts about Islamic Jihad

Terror attacks (in the West) if they possible can -

In this article - which is fairly balanced about it all - they say -

http://www.freerepub...4/posts?page=20

(I personally haven't seen any of these 'media pages')

and here's a link about the alleged Facebook page -

http://www.fireandre...islamic-martyr/

now, of course, the Islamic Jihadists could just be jumping on the tragic, horrible incident and claiming it as a victory

and also it could have been created by anti-islam people - to inflame

but

it might also be true - we don't know yet and we may never know for sure ...?

After 9/11 Airlines all changed their planes so that the cockpit door could be locked -

Now if you were a scheming terrorist - what might be your response and next move to this be - ?

It COULD be to groom and radicalize and convert non muslims - maybe vulnerable ones -

who would be 'clean' in regards to being known and watched by the Intelligence Services -

With a view to converting / manipulating someone who could train or already be training - to be a pilot -

so that they could get a Jihadist inside the cockpit and when the opportunity arose they could bring the

plane down....

This is speculation obviously - but I expect the 'authorities' are considering this and

taking a good look at all pilots - just in case what I have speculated is a possibility -

.

Honestly, your desperate conspiracy theorising is getting to the point of paranoia. Things can happen without everything being a Jihad, you know.

[bee]

Honestly, your desperate conspiracy theorising is getting to the point of paranoia.

haha - knew you'd love my post -

reminder - this is a discussion forum where we can discuss things -

although you, it seems would like to make some subjects taboo - - - - - - - they're not-

Things can happen without everything being a Jihad, you know.

yes Mr Strawman - - I know - -

But some 'things' that happen like major air disasters involving suicide pilots fit a certain profile that can be considered -

You can be sure that the Intelligence Services will be looking at the Jihad angle - they wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't...

.

[Raptor Witness]

He could have been temporarily possessed by a new demonic power, trying to make a name for itself.

Hence, his silence throughout the process, and the "normal breathing" reported, which doesn't seem like a purely human response.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Raptor Witness

[Merc14]

I know in military aviation the CO is the first to know if one oh his or her aircrew is medically disabled. They are not going to risk a multimillion dollar aircraft to someone not in condition to fly so why would risking 150 lives be less important?

Edited March 28, 2015 by Merc14