Indiana's Religious Freedom Bill

[Tiggs]

Okay, getting back on topic, I'm not going to have a which came first, the chicken or the egg, discussion.

There is no chicken and the egg discussion. Legislation has existed to modify people's behavior ever since Moses came back down the mountain with two tablets and ten laws, direct from God.

We have a different outlook and there is no point in going 'round in circles. My honest opinion is that most people are inherently good. Christians aren't looking for any excuse, loophole or opportunity to discriminate. They simply want to live their lives the way they see fit and live in peace. They have values I don't clearly understand, but it isn't my place to say they are wrong.

We do have a different outlook. You want people to be able to act however they want, because you think that they're basically good.

I don't believe that's true. I believe that racism, sexism, intolerance and hate-crimes occur, even with legislation to curb it.

The federal government and 20 other states agree with me.

No. They most certainly do not.

There has been no widespread upsweep in discrimination since the laws of religious freedom have been enacted in the last twenty years and I doubt it will start any time soon.

Because none of the Religious Freedom Laws passed by the Federal Government or the other states have allowed for discrimination against other citizens before.

And, now - neither does this one. Long may that continue.

[Michelle]

Pardon me...I don't think we've been properly introduced. I'm the poster who doesn't like to get into loooong, draaawn out discussions about the intricacies of the law or human nature. I'm perfectly happy making cute little quips or occasionally making a statement I know to be a fact. I try not to be controversial or contradictory and don't like being pushed in that particular direction, but I do have my opinions.

Now, if you will excuse me....

[aquatus1]

Pardon me...I don't think we've been properly introduced. I'm the poster who doesn't like to get into loooong, draaawn out discussions about the intricacies of the law or human nature.

In all fairness, the OP is specifically about Indiana's Religious Freedom law. Nothing wrong with not wanting to get into a deep discussion about it, but it's perfectly natural for others to assume otherwise.

[Michelle]

In all fairness, the OP is specifically about Indiana's Religious Freedom law. Nothing wrong with not wanting to get into a deep discussion about it, but it's perfectly natural for others to assume otherwise.

Nothing wrong with it at all... that's why I politely excused myself. It's not my style...

Come to think of it, that sort of statement has a much better effect when you can physically turn around and walk away.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Michelle

[Tiggs]

Now, if you will excuse me....

Of course. Be my guest.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Which brings me back to question, " What was the point of the law?" If people are inherently good and don't discriminate, why did we need the law on the federal level and 20 states?

Because sometimes, in staggeringly small number of cases, you need something in place to deal witha situation.

I work at a school that has rules and procedures in place in case of parents assault their child on school property, will we ver need those procedures? God I hope not. But they're there.

Sme in this case, one day there may be a case where someone is forced to do something explicitly against their beliefs (work on a holy day for example) now they have the legal support to say "no".

[Leonardo]

Okay, getting back on topic, I'm not going to have a which came first, the chicken or the egg, discussion. We have a different outlook and there is no point in going 'round in circles. My honest opinion is that most people are inherently good. Christians aren't looking for any excuse, loophole or opportunity to discriminate. They simply want to live their lives the way they see fit and live in peace. They have values I don't clearly understand, but it isn't my place to say they are wrong. The federal government and 20 other states agree with me. There has been no widespread upsweep in discrimination since the laws of religious freedom have been enacted in the last twenty years and I doubt it will start any time soon.

My opinion is that most people are inherently followers, not leaders, and lack courage of conviction except when severely pressed. And my opinion is that this overrides any 'inherent goodness' most people may possess.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Leonardo

[Bama13]

C'mon F3SS, that's a bit weak. You can find a better argument than that.

Yes, you do have the right to think what you will, and you do have the right to be an a-hole in thought. You do not have the right to behave like an a-hole, which is why there are police - who can arrest people for doing just that.

Actually, you do have that right. The business, however, equally has the right to deny your demand - just not for "any old reason".

Any business requires a permit to be established, and part of the process of acquiring that permit will be to produce a business plan. While I cannot say I have checked every business plan ever produced and granted a permit, I can honestly state that I believe none of them will include "as part of our business we will not offer service to queers" as part of said plan. Those businesses also operate on the understanding they offer their services to the general public and call me a fool for thinking so, but I always thought that homosexuals were members of the "general public"?

You seem to be under the impression that we get our rights from the Constitution. We don't. We get them at birth. The Constitution guarantees some of the rights the founding fathers thought of as very important, like Speech, Religion, Arms, Property rights, etc.