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dazdillinjah

Roswell Revisited

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psyche101

There is much that people are unaware of in regard to Charles Moore, but you can read it here.

Mate, everyone who has looked at Roswell in depth knows about this, as I mentioned, it inspired the cover of Keyhoe's fictional novel, which probably inspired much to the Roswell ETH hoax.

Thing with Moores sighting is no known atmospheric phenomena

IN 1949

might have explained his sighting, had he a better record we might be able to resolve it today with the far greater, if yet woefully incomplete understanding of UAP that get better each day.

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psyche101

If you have read the comments of those who posed with the debris of balsa wood and metal foil, they have indicated that the material they posed with in Ramey's office was not what was recovered on the Foster ranch. Col.Thomas Dubose went further when he said the debris was placed there to get the press off of their backs, yet the Roswell skeptics claimed the debris is what was found on the Foster ranch.

In other words, they didn't do their homework to understand that the rawin device was basically taken off the shelve and deliberately destroyed before it was placed on the floor.

Why did Jesse Marcel inist a torn RAWIN was parts of a crashed alien spaceship when in Ramey's office with Irving Newton then??

And you insist the material was switched, so they duped Marcel, and he still thought a torn RAWIN was a spaceship.

That makes the Roswell ETH look somewhat ridiculous Sky. So much for homework, you have ever been able to explain Marcel's insistence that the torn RAWIN was parts of an alien spaceship.

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lost_shaman

It is more amazing that UFOLogy has duped you into thinking a balloon is not a balloon, and the naming of the project designates whether a balloon is a balloon or not.

Typical weather balloon from the time frame:

gk526205d2.jpg

MOGUL Balloon

FWST711B.jpg

Look the same to me Sky.

You want to tell me and the rest of us curious dickens what the difference is between the balloon in the first picture and the seconds?? That is the big cover up right there.

Not very impressive to be honest. Looks like the same thing to me, like I have been saying for years now.

You have got to be kidding me mate.

Hey psyche,

I have to correct you here. That wasn't a MOGUL flight in the Ft. Worth Star telegram. Thats a photo from the mobile RADAR station that was located just a few blocks away down the street from Gen. Ramey's Office.

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psyche101

Dinner was served by me to the Roswell skeptics who refused to believe me when I told them the Air Force was misleading them on a weather balloon. That was in 1994 after the Air Force released its 1994 Roswell report, which sent the Air Force's weather balloon flying off into the trash bin in the sky.

It was served again when it was revealed that there was no Project Mogul balloon train flight #4, which explains why there are no data records pertaining to such a flight. And again, when the Air Force's Project Officer for High Dive, Col. Raymond Madson, called the Air Force a liar when the Air Force used his 1950s test dummies to explain away the Roswell incident of 1947.

Question is, with those facts in hand, how in the world, or out of it, was the Air Force able to dupe the Roswell skeptic community on test dummies of the 1950s in order to explain away an incident in 1947?

Simply amazing that there are those who haven't figured out the Air Force's disinformation game plan!!

.

No disinformation at all. Madson's pride and ego were hurt, anyone can see that as Madson stated about the man who wrote the report featuring content contributed by him as:

"I didn't prestige McAndrew. In fact, I don't dress like him. I don't like the way that he operates."

Sour grapes, nothing more. It seems Madson did not read the report either, as he made the same ridiculous mistake you have made (and we know where you got that from - Madson's rantings) with the time frame, the report as you well know specifically states that no dummies were dropped in 1947 at all. So it is not even a real argument. Just more ETH hot air.

Simply amazing how UFOlogy considers ego as proof.

Edited by psyche101

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lost_shaman

Why did Jesse Marcel inist a torn RAWIN was parts of a crashed alien spaceship when in Ramey's office with Irving Newton then??

And you insist the material was switched, so they duped Marcel, and he still thought a torn RAWIN was a spaceship.

That makes the Roswell ETH look somewhat ridiculous Sky. So much for homework, you have ever been able to explain Marcel's insistence that the torn RAWIN was parts of an alien spaceship.

I can explain that, Marcel was an intel officer and this was a counterintelligence operation so he was just doing his job by playing his part in the farce.

Must have been tough to say those things with a straight face, but I'm sure intel officers were selected and trained for the ability to do just that when ordered to do so.

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psyche101

Hey psyche,

I have to correct you here. That wasn't a MOGUL flight in the Ft. Worth Star telegram. Thats a photo from the mobile RADAR station that was located just a few blocks away down the street from Gen. Ramey's Office.

We only have Rudiak's word on that too.

It says that mate, on the photo ;)

This is the same type "kite" which caused excitement Tuesday after its discovery near Roswell, N.M. First reports from the army indicated it was a "flying saucer."

The pic says it is the same thing. I assume the are focussing on the RAWIN.

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psyche101

I can explain that, Marcel was an intel officer and this was a counterintelligence operation so he was just doing his job by playing his part in the farce.

Must have been tough to say those things with a straight face, but I'm sure intel officers were selected and trained for the ability to do just that when ordered to do so.

That's how I figure it too. I think Marcel took the real secret to his grave.

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psyche101

First of all, it exposes the Air Force's Roswell disinformation campaign and problems are clearly evident. For an example, it says:

Keywords: "Project MOGUL, the top-priority classified project of balloon-borne."

Those keywords should have set off alarm bells because Project Mogul was not highly classified and once again, Project Mogul balloons and the purpose of their experiments (nuclear explosion detections) was published in newspapers around the country. The words; Project Mogul, was not classified either and in fact, those words appeared in an unclassified letter. In that unclassified letter, Charles Moore is named as head of Project Mogul.. In addition, Project Mogul balloons were sometimes recovered by civilians for rewards after answering questionnaires that were attached to balloon trains. An example was the recovery of a Project Mogul balloon train by Sid West.

Sid West did not confuse his recovery of a downed Project Mogul balloon as a flying saucer nor was there a cover story for his recovery nor for any Project Mogul balloons that were recovered for civilans and yet, the Air Force lmanaged to convince a number of people that Brazel and military personnel confused a downed Project Mogul train as remains of a flying saucer.

You will note the name of Congressman Steven Shiff, but let's take a look at what he said, which you will find in that report as you scroll on down the report..

The Air Force was blocking his attempts to investigate the Roswell incident. Now, why would the Air Force want to block a congressman's Roswell investigation? Other investigators were blocked by the Air Force as well.

Schiff s a typical politician, scammer and liar.

When the GAO gave him the report, it did not say what he wanted it to say, so he released the unfinished draft with open ended questions alluding to a conspiracy that never was in order to justify the expense of public funds to curb his personal curiosity.

Barry Goldwater also created his own Pony show, he is just a religious nut with the fever.

Barry Goldwater

P.O. BOX 1 601

SCOTTSDALE. ARIZONA 85252

July 26, 1994

Mr. Kent Jeffrey

Porteous Ave. Fairfax, CA 94930

Dear Mr. Jeffrey:

You touch something very close to me, by your letter. Roswell

has long been a point of great interest to me, since the

first UFO's turned up. You see, I both believe in UFOs and I

don't believe in them. My argument is that God, m creating

the universes as he did, would not just have made one planet

with living things.

Butch Blanchard was a very close friend of mine. I worked

with him in the Air Force, and am almost certain that I knew

your father, the Colonel. There is not much we can do about

getting the things about Roswell that you would like. I

tried diligently to get them from General LeMay, and the only

cussing out he ever gave me, was when I very vociferously

asked him for information.

It was nice to hear from you. I guess we'l1 just keep on trying.

Sincerely

[signature]

Barry Goldwater

Office Phone[....] Fax[....]

Edited by psyche101

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stereologist

You are incorrect again.

You posted false claims about reports that do not exist. All you have to do is to post the reports, but you never do.

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stereologist

He said 1200 mph, which was still far beyond the airspeed that any manned aircraft could achieve at that time.

Arnold knew that his estimate was bad. You can see it in the math he did.

His estimate was likely off by a factor of 3 or 4 putting the airspeed well below what a manned aircraft could achieve.

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stereologist

I wanted to add that I noticed you used a reference from CSICOP. It is apparent that you do not know of the amusing history of CSICOP, which made itself a laughing stock.

Says the poster using UFO sites that have been shown to misrepresent and lie time and time again.

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psyche101

The name on that unclassified letter as to who was head of Project Mogul was none other than Charles Moore.

Can you tell me what it says in the letter in my filing cabinet referencing yourself??

Same argument, when you can do that, I'll accept Moore having psychic abilities as well.

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psyche101

The Air Force's crash dummy argument was dismissed by the Air Force's own project officer of the High Dive experiments. Check it out.

His pride was hurt and he lashed out, that's only proof that Madson's ego was hurt.

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psyche101

He said 1200 mph, which was still far beyond the airspeed that any manned aircraft could achieve at that time.

He said 1200 mph but the capabilities of the human eye insist it was more like 400 mph.

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psyche101

Saucer=Cup.

Weather=Balloons.

Ribs= B.B.Q

Unexplained=Mysteries.

This thread= Party Not !

We need that B cup mate......

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Degen

It was not classified at the time because Mogul balloons were sometimes recovered by civilians for rewards and some cases, Mogul balloons were not recovered at all. In addition, the name, Mogul, can be found in unclassified balloon records. It has been claimed that the name; Mogul, was classified, but how many times can you find the name, Mogul, in this unclassified Mogul balloon record?

That is another hint that Project Mogul was not classified Top Secret. We can take a look here as well.

The article said that Project Mogul was so secret that not even Charles Moore was aware of the project's name, which is strange considering the contents of the following letter. Now, read this unclassified letter and tell us who was head of Project Mogul.

MCLAUGH1.jpg

The name on that unclassified letter as to who was head of Project Mogul was none other than Charles Moore.

And the article you are using said it was top secret so your opinion is invalid

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Degen

You are incorrect again.

Thats quite an arguement you make there. :rolleyes:

I might use it from now on when replying to you because obviously you dont need to prove anything, you can just say anything and people should believe it

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Degen

I wanted to add that I noticed you used a reference from CSICOP. It is apparent that you do not know of the amusing history of CSICOP, which made itself a laughing stock.

Interesting, because you use the exact same link as a source. Guess thats why you are the laughing stock of this thread.

Edited by Degen
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Degen

It was not classified at the time because Mogul balloons were sometimes recovered by civilians for rewards and some cases, Mogul balloons were not recovered at all. In addition, the name, Mogul, can be found in unclassified balloon records. It has been claimed that the name; Mogul, was classified, but how many times can you find the name, Mogul, in this unclassified Mogul balloon record?

That is another hint that Project Mogul was not classified Top Secret. We can take a look here as well.

The article said that Project Mogul was so secret that not even Charles Moore was aware of the project's name, which is strange considering the contents of the following letter. Now, read this unclassified letter and tell us who was head of Project Mogul.

MCLAUGH1.jpg

The name on that unclassified letter as to who was head of Project Mogul was none other than Charles Moore.

That letter was written in 1949, when was mogul declassified? And why dont you put links with most of what you are quoting? Is it because you dont want to show what unreliable sources you use to get your "information"?

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skyeagle409

And the article you are using said it was top secret so your opinion is invalid

I posted the article from that link to show that any link claiming that Project Mogul was classified top secret, was presenting false and misleading information. You don't reveal top secret projects and their objectives to the news media for the whole world to see. After all, there are valid reasons as to why certain project and vehicles are classified top secret.

In the case of Project Mogul, the fact that objectives of Mogul balloon experiments along with photos, which were provided to newspapers across the country, proved that Project Mogul was not classified by any means. The fact that Sid West recovered a Project Mogul balloon, and the fact that it was decided to wait until the next day to send two persons to recover the Mogul balloon train, also serves to prove that Project Mogul was not classified top secret. Where's the saucer story for the Mogul balloon recovery of Sid West?

Ever wondered why the F-117 stealth fighter was declassified to a certain extent before its existence was revealed to the public? That is another clue that Project Mogul was not classified top secret.

Edited by skyeagle409

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skyeagle409

Interesting, because you use the exact same link as a source. Guess thats why you are the laughing stock of this thread.

I don't think that you understood as to WHY I posted that link to CSICOP. I posted that link to prove that CSICOP was not playing with a full deck.

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skyeagle409

Thats quite an arguement you make there. :rolleyes:

I might use it from now on when replying to you because obviously you dont need to prove anything, you can just say anything and people should believe it

Well, looking back into history, and in case you missed it, I told skeptics that the Air Force's weather balloon story was false and why it was false, but the skeptics did not believe me, that is, until 1994 when the Air Force trashed its weather balloon before their very eyes.

Skeptics refuse to believe me when I tell them that no Project Mogul balloon was responsible for the Roswell incident, yet that can't tell me why there is no saucer story for any Project Mogul balloons that were recovered by civilians, who collected rewards for recovering Mogul balloons and yet, the Air Force has led people to believe that the reason why they released their flying saucer story was to protect a top secrer Project Mogul balloon train. Never mind that they provided photos of Project Mogul balloons and revealed the objectives of Project Mogul experiments in newspapers, which proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Project Mogul was not a top secret project and once again, you don't reveal top secret projects and top secret objects in newspapers nor even provide hints of a top secret project to the press.

To put it all in perspective as to what the Roswell skeptics have been saying about the classification of Project Mogul, the paint of the F-117 was classified top secret and the Air Force revealed its ingredients in the newspapers.

.

Edited by skyeagle409

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Sir Wearer of Hats

And you do reveal the existenc of aliens in the press?

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skyeagle409

What ... like Bobby Bob Lazar, MUFON, Billy Meier.....

To let you knowm, I have come down hard on Bob Lazar and Billy Meier, especiallly Billy Meier.

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skyeagle409

Mate, everyone who has looked at Roswell in depth knows about this, as I mentioned, it inspired the cover of Keyhoe's fictional novel, which probably inspired much to the Roswell ETH hoax.

Apparently, my sources, who were there, have trashed the Roswell balloon stories

Thing with Moores sighting is no known atmospheric phenomena

It was clear and obvious that Moore's sighting had nothing to do with atmospheric phenomena.

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