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XenoFish

Pointlessness of Religion

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Sherapy

I decided to turn my status update into a thread hoping to find other who are going through something similar. I'm currently agnostic. Which means I ride the fence of faith. Believing only if proof is given. Yet lately I find holding onto such a possibility to be meaningless. My morality is based around around the Christian moral code. Treat other as I wished to be treated, do good because I want to, etc. Yet the faith in their god(or any god) is not there. Even looked back on 22 years of occult practice I realize how empty I am. Nothing every presented itself as being legit that couldn't be explained away. No ghost, no demons, gods, or angels. Just figments of my imagination. Every prayer that was answer was just confirmation bias same with spell work. Just self induced jedi mind tricks. I feel there is no point in religion. There is no God. If there is a God it doesn't care about us as our fate is totally within our own hands. I'm seriously considering becoming an atheist.

Congratulations, you have tried paths, set some aside, and now are ready to try something else. You now have more of a sense of what works for you and what doesn't. I see this as exciting and awesome for you. The worst that is going to happen is you are going to stitch together a path for yourself: that represents you, based on your experiences, based on your journey. I look forward to hearing your insights along the way. I am an atheist, I love being an atheist as it is the path I have chosen for myself, based on my life experiences, and the wisdoms I have gleaned from them.

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Likely Guy

I'm an agnostic of a different stripe. I'm an indifferent agnostic, or I could be called an apatheist. I really don't care whether or not there is a God.

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism

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Sherapy

I'm an agnostic of a different stripe. I'm an indifferent agnostic, or I could be called an apatheist. I really don't care whether or not there is a God.

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism

My youngest is the same; I love hearing his thoughts too. He says with a giggle, "That religion: [in] no way, shape, or form, will affect the living of my life."

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Likely Guy

My youngest is the same; I love hearing his thoughts too. He says with a giggle, "That religion: [in] no way, shape, or form, will affect the living of my life."

Exactly. I'm sure that whether or not if someone proved the existance or nonexistance of God he would live his life any diffferently.

The Golden Rule, common among all religions (therefore humanity), says it all.

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XenoFish
whatever religion may or may not be, one thing it definitely is not, is "pointless".

This is largely based on your perspective. You give it meaning. I can not find one. It seems that the point of a religions is solely within the believer. That is the only point to it. And I see no point in living my life based on a system of fear that drive me to do good, because I don't want to have my ethereal daddy mad at me. Or even worse be put to death because I disbelieve.

I'm an indifferent agnostic

Apatheism kinda hit the nail on the head about how I feel. Thanks for bringing that into the tread. :tsu:

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Paranoid Android

This is largely based on your perspective. You give it meaning. I can not find one. It seems that the point of a religions is solely within the believer. That is the only point to it. And I see no point in living my life based on a system of fear that drive me to do good, because I don't want to have my ethereal daddy mad at me. Or even worse be put to death because I disbelieve.

For what it's worth I agree fully with most of what you wrote. The process of meaning-making is an intensely personal one in each person's life. And I also agree that there is no point living on a system of fear or doing good just because not doing so makes God angry. And certainly I respect your right to believe or not believe without being put to death.

So except for the fact that you find no personal point in religion it seems our views are remarkably similar on this.

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Sherapy

For what it's worth I agree fully with most of what you wrote. The process of meaning-making is an intensely personal one in each person's life. And I also agree that there is no point living on a system of fear or doing good just because not doing so makes God angry. And certainly I respect your right to believe or not believe without being put to death.

So except for the fact that you find no personal point in religion it seems our views are remarkably similar on this.

Quite frankly, your response is beautiful! And, based on the many posts I have read by you (sharing your journey); I would conclude without a doubt that it has inspired you, and motivated you to become the person who see as viable and worthwhile. I think that you do your path justice, and offer a perspective that is humble and gracious. For those that chose this particular path as their vehicle: I enjoy hearing about their wisdoms, I enjoy observing their growth, as opposed to wasting time on haggling over being right about things. I see us as asking similar questions, How can I be my best self; what will inspire and empower me to be that?

Edited by Sherapy
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Paranoid Android

Quite frankly, your response is beautiful! And, based on the many posts I have read by you (sharing your journey); I would conclude without a doubt that it has inspired you, and motivated you to become the person who see as viable and worthwhile. I think that you do your path justice, and offer a perspective that is humble and gracious. For those that chose this particular path as their vehicle: I enjoy hearing about their wisdoms, I enjoy observing their growth, as opposed to wasting time on haggling over being right about things. I see us as asking similar questions, How can I be my best self; what will inspire and empower me to be that?

Thanks for the kind words, Sheri. I've also got to say I've really learned a lot from you too, that your world view (despite your godlessness, lol - just joking on the use of that particular word) shines out to anyone with eyes that behind it all you are beautiful woman with a beautiful personality.

I know the world is wonderful, filled with endless possibilities, the most interesting characters, and the craziest twists and turns. I believe in the power of positive thinking. I believe even the smallest acts of kindness can shape the world and that one person does matter.

I was raised Catholic but then became agnostic in my teens and early twenties. Then, the summer of my 24th Birthday I read some silly book that changed my life and made me want to become serious about my Christian faith. I say silly book because it wasn't something ridiculously profound or meaningful, it just sort of made sense, it made everything click in my head.

After reading this book I sort of just decided finally I would "pick a side" and became serious about the Christian faith. I read the Bible, interpreted it for myself and have changed for the better ever since. My love of God and of Christ and his teachings, it has made me a better person, it has shaped the way I view the world, and how I view people. I may be wrong, it may all be a lie, I might never know. Yet, at the same time, this belief has made me a better person, it has made me want to live my life honestly, and with dignity.

And when it comes to prayer, and "signs", I prefer to think god listened and said no, rather than he wasn't there.

Have I told you how much I really enjoy reading your posts when you talk about the nature of life? Your outlook is somewhat different to Sheri's above, but in a different way your view here is just as beautiful.

Oh geez, now you've got me to blushing and fawning over my two favourite girls from UM (and Stubbly, you're up in my list there too, if you're reading this, but everyone know there's only one real favourite here) :blush::wub:

Edited by Paranoid Android
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Careful_perspective

Thanks for the kind words, Sheri. I've also got to say I've really learned a lot from you too, that your world view (despite your godlessness, lol - just joking on the use of that particular word) shines out to anyone with eyes that behind it all you are beautiful woman with a beautiful personality.

Have I told you how much I really enjoy reading your posts when you talk about the nature of life? Your outlook is somewhat different to Sheri's above, but in a different way your view here is just as beautiful.

Oh geez, now you've got me to blushing and fawning over my two favourite girls from UM (and Stubbly, you're up in my list there too, if you're reading this, but everyone know there's only one real favourite here) :blush::wub:

Thank you for your kind words, I often find myself at a loss for the right words so to hear that you think I make sense, and it sounds nice, well, that mean a lot to me!

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Careful_perspective

What helped me was thinking through forgiveness. What I discovered was...Forgiveness has absolutely nothing to do with the forgiven. It has everything to do with the Forgiver. When we forgive...we are cleansed. We are cleansed of that which we were holding on someone else...and it is very freeing to be cleansed of such feelings. Forgiveness cleanses us...only when we forgive.

But if you have hurt someone...you should ask them to forgive you...but it is cleansing of the forgiver more than the forgiven.

Just sayin'

Yes! I always say something similar! Pain is and resentment have the ability to eat you alive, and make you an angry, hurtful person. Forgiveness is not about making an objective decision on something being right or wrong, but rather, about not allowing yourself to live with the pain and resentment any longer.

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Paranoid Android

Thank you for your kind words, I often find myself at a loss for the right words so to hear that you think I make sense, and it sounds nice, well, that mean a lot to me!

Any time, Ms booger :) you always seem to make sense to me, and so often I see you say something and all I can think is "I wish I could have put it as well as you did", so you shouldn't feel at a loss when explaining yourself :tu:
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Whisperer

I decided to turn my status update into a thread hoping to find other who are going through something similar. I'm currently agnostic. Which means I ride the fence of faith. Believing only if proof is given. Yet lately I find holding onto such a possibility to be meaningless. My morality is based around around the Christian moral code. Treat other as I wished to be treated, do good because I want to, etc. Yet the faith in their god(or any god) is not there. Even looked back on 22 years of occult practice I realize how empty I am. Nothing every presented itself as being legit that couldn't be explained away. No ghost, no demons, gods, or angels. Just figments of my imagination. Every prayer that was answer was just confirmation bias same with spell work. Just self induced jedi mind tricks. I feel there is no point in religion. There is no God. If there is a God it doesn't care about us as our fate is totally within our own hands. I'm seriously considering becoming an atheist.

Good on ya...how ever, this side of the fence is just as pointless, you need to motivate yourself simply by allowing yourself to be interested in solely yourself....will it benefit you in 10 years time, does it excite your curiosity, can you rationalise it with your base nature etc....then you can expand the small moments of interest with the long boring moments of indifference to even it all out, the middle road I think its referred to....

Religion itself may be suspect but the benefits of a positive outcome from religions is good in many ways, it give non thinkers a chance to rest and recuperate before diving into the fray again....just my thoughts from reading your post...cheers..

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Sherapy

I know the world is wonderful, filled with endless possibilities, the most interesting characters, and the craziest twists and turns. I believe in the power of positive thinking. I believe even the smallest acts of kindness can shape the world and that one person does matter.

I was raised Catholic but then became agnostic in my teens and early twenties. Then, the summer of my 24th Birthday I read some silly book that changed my life and made me want to become serious about my Christian faith. I say silly book because it wasn't something ridiculously profound or meaningful, it just sort of made sense, it made everything click in my head.

After reading this book I sort of just decided finally I would "pick a side" and became serious about the Christian faith. I read the Bible, interpreted it for myself and have changed for the better ever since. My love of God and of Christ and his teachings, it has made me a better person, it has shaped the way I view the world, and how I view people. I may be wrong, it may all be a lie, I might never know. Yet, at the same time, this belief has made me a better person, it has made me want to live my life honestly, and with dignity.

And when it comes to prayer, and "signs", I prefer to think god listened and said no, rather than he wasn't there.

Wow, this post was written so eloquently WB; so beautiful, candid, and inspirational. Thank you for taking the time to post.

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Sherapy

Thanks for the kind words, Sheri. I've also got to say I've really learned a lot from you too, that your world view (despite your godlessness, lol - just joking on the use of that particular word) shines out to anyone with eyes that behind it all you are beautiful woman with a beautiful personality.

Have I told you how much I really enjoy reading your posts when you talk about the nature of life? Your outlook is somewhat different to Sheri's above, but in a different way your view here is just as beautiful.

Oh geez, now you've got me to blushing and fawning over my two favourite girls from UM (and Stubbly, you're up in my list there too, if you're reading this, but everyone know there's only one real favourite here) :blush::wub:

I for one, adore this lovey dovey Robbie and am honoured and happy to call you a friend. Thank you for your kind words.

Edited by Sherapy
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Sherapy

What helped me was thinking through forgiveness. What I discovered was...Forgiveness has absolutely nothing to do with the forgiven. It has everything to do with the Forgiver. When we forgive...we are cleansed. We are cleansed of that which we were holding on someone else...and it is very freeing to be cleansed of such feelings. Forgiveness cleanses us...only when we forgive.

But if you have hurt someone...you should ask them to forgive you...but it is cleansing of the forgiver more than the forgiven.

Just sayin'

Indeed, we literally drop the burden of conflict and free ourselves to see and live brand new. There is nothing like the salvation and peace that comes thru the personal act of forgiveness.

Edited by Sherapy
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DieChecker

My youngest is the same; I love hearing his thoughts too. He says with a giggle, "That religion: [in] no way, shape, or form, will affect the living of my life."

Unless you consider that various legislation is written by religiously influenced people. :innocent: Then it does affect your brother's actions, since he probably doesn't want to break the law.

I don't think Separation of Church and State is perfect anywhere.

Edited by DieChecker
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DieChecker

I converted to my Christian beliefs as a 19 year old. In my years since I have been constantly reminded of one thing - whatever religion may or may not be, one thing it definitely is not, is "pointless".

I was 29 or 30 when I dedicated my life to Christianity. I think it can be a strong motivator for positive change in a person's life if they chose to live a Christ Life life. Living for Love and Others instead of living for Yourself, which is what the secular US culture teaches.

Edited by DieChecker
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White Crane Feather

I decided to turn my status update into a thread hoping to find other who are going through something similar. I'm currently agnostic. Which means I ride the fence of faith. Believing only if proof is given. Yet lately I find holding onto such a possibility to be meaningless. My morality is based around around the Christian moral code. Treat other as I wished to be treated, do good because I want to, etc. Yet the faith in their god(or any god) is not there. Even looked back on 22 years of occult practice I realize how empty I am. Nothing every presented itself as being legit that couldn't be explained away. No ghost, no demons, gods, or angels. Just figments of my imagination. Every prayer that was answer was just confirmation bias same with spell work. Just self induced jedi mind tricks. I feel there is no point in religion. There is no God. If there is a God it doesn't care about us as our fate is totally within our own hands. I'm seriously considering becoming an atheist.

The dark night of the soul is a difficult transition. You should consider becoming an atheist. But unfortunately you don't have a choice. No one chooses atheism or beleif. You just do or don't. I have a friend whoes moddo is keep the good drop the bad. Sounds like good advice.

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White Crane Feather

I converted to my Christian beliefs as a 19 year old. In my years since I have been constantly reminded of one thing - whatever religion may or may not be, one thing it definitely is not, is "pointless".

Indeed PA what would we be without process.

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oslove

The predominant sentiment of posters here is against religion and God.

May I just invite us all to first tell each other what is religion and what is God, in that way we will all be exact on what is the thing or things in religion that we are against, and what is God that we are against, as to conclude that religion is pointless and God does not exist.

Here is my concept of religion: The belief in the existence of a superior being which we try to influence as to move him to react to us favorably.

And here is my concept of God: The creator and operator of the universe and of everything with a beginning.

So, for folks who find religion pointless, if you take my concept of religion, then you are of the heart and mind that you don't have any belief in any superior being which you try to influence as to move him to react to you favorably.

And also for folks who deny the existence of God, if you take my concept of God, then you are saying to yourself and also to others, that you don't accept the existence of any creator and operator of the universe and of everything with a beginning.

But l like to read of any concept from you folks here on what is your concept of religion and of God.

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