Pointlessness of Religion

[+Sherapy]

That can be a lot more complex than one may think. Somethings you don't think will do harm blows up in your face. But it is simple and has worked well for me, most of the time.

Gg this is an excellent point, sometimes what we think is for another's best may cause them harm.

My youngest had a friend who was being bullied by his sister and my son suggested he stand up to her, so this kid picked one night when her dad had sent her to get him, he decided he wasn't going home, she left came back with her dad and the boy was beat with a belt for being disrespectful to his sister. Gosh, we felt terrible. My son learned early be very careful thinking you know what is best for another.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Sherapy

[robinrenee]

I'm just curious, ( I believe you ) do you have a link for that case? Thanks in advance.

When we were stationed at a base in Jersey, and my kids went to a military school on base, my daughter came home with a note, and a teacher called me as well, to inform me that they had to take action because one kid was singing religious songs to my daughter. They had the kid go home with a note to his parents about him doing that and why it is wrong. Granted, I can understand the kid singing something that he is use to, but they want to make sure no one is being indoctrinated, so actions are taken right away.

My daughter mentioned it to me. She's an elementary school teacher (public school in NC). She's a globalist too, so it jumped out at her when they began using the Core Curriculum a few years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Core_State_Standards_Initiative

and

http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0023/002329/232993e.pdf

[XenoFish]

Gg this is an excellent point, sometimes what we think is for another's best may cause them harm.

My youngest had a friend who was being bullied by his sister and my son suggested he stand up to her, so this kid picked one night when her dad had sent her to get him, he decided he wasn't going home, she left came back with her dad and the boy was beat with a belt for being disrespectful to his sister. Gosh, we felt terrible. My son learned early be very careful thinking you know what is best for another.

That's when you clear plastic wrap her toilet seat. Every time she'd do something, prank her for it. Eventually she'll learn.

[robinrenee]

Oops, Stubbly, I just realized you were talking about the banning of religion in school. What I said in the post was from memory.

I just googled it, and this is the first that came up. (I didn't look through a bunch of the google search.)

http://religionandpolitics.org/2012/06/25/when-the-court-took-on-prayer-the-bible-and-public-schools/

[Grandpa Greenman]

That's when you clear plastic wrap her toilet seat. Every time she'd do something, prank her for it. Eventually she'll learn.

With kid's luck it would be Dad who got the prank. I never hit one of my kids with a belt. If one of their friends would have showed up to my house with marks from it I would report them.

[robinrenee]

Because, I'm pretty sure his reply was in any way not what you meant. Or did I get that wrong?

No, no , no, Mr. Walker, don't you answer............... I know what your answer is going to be. I was saying that part to Sheri.

Or Back to earth

Or Davros

Or Xeno

PA, ................................ Robin is allowed to. *shrugs*

Huh? What did I miss, or what did I say?

[back to earth]

So you would have thought would you ?

Turn it around. How much can a starving Ethiopian contribute to his fellow man and thus how much responsibility does he have, to do so In contrast how much might i or you be able to contribute and thus how much duty /responsibility do we have.

Of course, now I have to agree, and of course your demonstration is perfectly valid and sensible ... except you just demonstrated how this dynamic really has nothing to do with God at all, or being Christian . ... the whole point you seemed to be trying to make in the first place.

It is just as much human justification as your excuse for not understanding god is a human justification.

Where did I say I didnt understand God ... and where did I use it as an 'excuse' .... if you cant quote me, it just shows you are , yet again. making up stuff about me and writing it down as if I said it somewhere . Another ploy.

GoD is self evidently NOT omnipotent or omniscient.

self evident ? whats 'self' is it evident to ?

other wise we would not be in the state we are in. This means, like all self aware beings, relying on technology and ability. He has to work with what he has got, and use available resources and logic to achieve his desires.

Ahhh ... he does does he ? I never realised God was so restricted in his operations !

[back to earth]

Come on! No one accepts the ABC as an impartial commentator any longer. It is very left wing, socially radical, and economically far to the left of the labour party. I Once relied on its news and current affairs for fair impartial analysis, but while i still watch them, i no longer believe the attached commentary.

There you go again ! Declaring no person in Australia accepts the national broadcaster !

Go on put up the relevant survey %s to show that no one accepts the ABC as an impartial commentator .

[+Sherapy]

With kid's luck it would be Dad who got the prank. I never hit one of my kids with a belt. If one of their friends would have showed up to my house with marks from it I would report them.

I did talk to a school psychologist friend of mine, I was so shook up for this child. Eventually, Dad got help for anger when the sister started getting into serious trouble, she was part of an armed robbery at 16, it was a wake up call for the family. This boy my sons friend turned out to be alright, he is doing well and the family is doing better. The sister is sadly in prison.

[back to earth]

No. Rather you have just confirmed what i said You are open to ideas beliefs and concepts as long as they are not too different from your pre-existing ones and don't come from anyone you have closed your mind to. .

No, wrong yet again .

You think my reactions to you apply to all people I deal with as you cannot conceive that you might have a part to play in people's dealings with you (regardless of how many tell you here ) . You cant just switch from 'Walker' to 'anyone' midstream , without obviously fudging things.

In regard to me not accepting your beliefs, it is not because they are too different from my pre-existing ones

it is because they are similar to old, defunct and out of sync and place beliefs that I used to have many years ago, and that were all around me, And now I have the opportunity to see how people who got stuck there are now, and how those that didnt ended up , including me .

So, sorta the opposite what you are claiming.

[back to earth]

Na just went to the optometrist. 20/20 vision, excellent responses to the field tes,t and the photo scans showed nothing in my eye at all. (apparently i have naturally large nerve endings in my retina which help a lot. so i can spot a mote in someone's eye real easy.

Well perhaps the plank could be around the back of the head then ?

[back to earth]

All this touchy feely stuff is making me sick.

Have a crock-a-doodle then

[+Sherapy]

No, wrong yet again .

You think my reactions to you apply to all people I deal with as you cannot conceive that you might have a part to play in people's dealings with you (regardless of how many tell you here ) . You cant just switch from 'Walker' to 'anyone' midstream , without obviously fudging things.

In regard to me not accepting your beliefs, it is not because they are too different from my pre-existing ones

it is because they are similar to old, defunct and out of sync and place beliefs that I used to have many years ago, and that were all around me, And now I have the opportunity to see how people who got stuck there are now, and how those that didnt ended up , including me .

So, sorta the opposite what you are claiming.

Basically, you have outgrown them ( the old beliefs/ whatever they were) and moved on to ones that serve and reflect you better.

[Grandpa Greenman]

No, no , no, Mr. Walker, don't you answer............... I know what your answer is going to be. I was saying that part to Sheri.

Or Back to earth

Or Davros

Or Xeno

PA, ................................ Robin is allowed to. *shrugs*

Good question.

If you need, you can go to the drop down on your name in upper right corner, click on "manage ignore list." Type in their name, then you can take a respite from posters who you have lost patients with or deemed a troll.

[XenoFish]

My view really changed when I began to look into what religion really was. I started see that prayers where just affirmations, studying scriptures was just a form of indoctrination, and while going to church and church events lead to isolation of the self. You start fitting into a box that everyone else is in. You become one of them. If you remove the god component of religion you end up with a set of rules and philosophy.

I personally think that all you need is both the gold and silver rule to have a good life. No one know's if there is a life after this one. So I feel that it's best to live as honest with yourself as you can. And if you want immortality, do something that everyone will remember. Because one day the only afterlife you'll have is being a memory.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

All this touchy feely stuff is making me sick.

Sawry about dat, Xeno. * looks adorable sheepish and sorry *

Big (((HUGS)))

Maybe some us don't care what you talk about.

I know I don't!!! *shrugs*

And besides............................. I know Sheri talks the truth.

MW, you have to choose what is best for you, and if God is best for you to me that this is your choice is what matters.

I agree, I do not think that my path would be suitable for you, or my choices would work for you. But they do work for me and I am fine with that.

On the other hand: It is a good question if suffering is viable, and of course this is something I would limit myself on ( personally) but I think for some it is the only way they can learn, and it is the only way they can reach deep to find a better way. I do not make judgments I look to see how they use their experiences, I have seen many amazing people do many amazing things, on the heels of what I'd call awful. But what I'd call awful has turned out to be another's miracle. Go figure. IMO belief in God in and of itself is not an end all it may or may not be what is best for a person, I leave that to the person to determine. I have no preference.

Indeed, I have been open and candid about my mother, while her and I didn't get as far as I would have liked towards a loving respectful relationship, I am a pleased with how far my mom did come and hard she tried to do her part, my journey continues my step dad and granny have been amazing in helping me see my mom through their eyes and it has gone a long way in cultivating the compassion and understanding needed for me to heal.

My home schooling journey turned out to be an amazing success story(but I had an amazing set of mentors/ academics) who committed to the whole journey/ helped me so much) it far surpassed even my grandest hopes on many levels. For me, it was the most courageous thing I have ever taken on. Would I recommend it, no I would not, it's a big commitment, and my youngest was the right fit ( that matters too) he was always smart beyond his years and independent minded that figured in a lot.

I would strongly encourage anyone to leave no stone unturned in options first, yet I would say that if done right it is a great path for some. My middle son went to public school and has had 7 football scholarships( full rides) of which he has narrowed down to two. My oldest is in cyber security. So I can't say homeschooling is better because my other two are fine too. I am honored to have been part of the homeschooling movement and to have done a great job. Now I am off to other adventures.

How could anyone go wrong, following a post like that! How in the world, would anyone think it's totally not understanding and wrong? We all make mistakes, and we all have our own philosophies, but one thing I'm sure of is, I would follow this more, than someone else's is directed with contempt, insult, condescension, intolerance, and such. Plus, with all the ......................... not quite stories that don't seem to be so believable, (yes, even to me ), Sheri's would be the one to go to to keep sane!!

Again, you go girl!

Yes, to hear your kind words about me means a lot to me. Thank you.

You're welcome!

Do what thou will so long as it brings harm to none.

How can anyone go wrong with that?!

That can be a lot more complex than one may think. Somethings you don't think will do harm blows up in your face. But it is simple and has worked well for me, most of the time.

GreensmanGod!!! Sweetcheeks!! How are ya doing? ( I forgot to mention you earlier, didn't I............ sorry )

I keep forgetting, the one person who is closer to my set of beliefs in all this. (((HUGS)))

Gg this is an excellent point, sometimes what we think is for another's best may cause them harm.

My youngest had a friend who was being bullied by his sister and my son suggested he stand up to her, so this kid picked one night when her dad had sent her to get him, he decided he wasn't going home, she left came back with her dad and the boy was beat with a belt for being disrespectful to his sister. Gosh, we felt terrible. My son learned early be very careful thinking you know what is best for another.

Oh dear.

Yeah, I remember sleeping over a friend's house, or the many times I was over, and witnessed a really big fight between her and her mother. I still remember just standing there staring ( I was too horrified to intervene ) while her mother shoved her into a wall. I still have conflicts in my head about just standing there, remembering that. I never saw her anymore, years later after that time. I don't think she made it quite like the rest of us. I wonder, would I have made a difference?

Even now, when intervening between a neighbor and friend, and her husband. ( This time I took the 'standing up' part and yelled at him, and if necessary, I would have struck ((doesn't matter how I would have done it )) and he was getting really belligerent.) I wonder at that too. I was so scared to death in side, but I was also feeling very angry towards him and I wanted to protect my friend. I still feel, to this day, I did right. I think in this situation, I did right. ( still room for anyone thinking I did wrong. ) I could have gone off and called the base cops, but I thought this is where I showed him how I felt of his treatment.

The thing is, not much came of it, no one turned to violence, and I think he got scared down by me. ( I think ) In the end, ( not by my doing, my friend, despite it all, was really a smart one and knew what she had to do ) divorced him, and she ended up marrying his friend. ( a friend who felt that she was being mistreated by him. ) Anyhow, it's by their doing, that they're happy.

So, I wonder, ( be it innocent fear not intervening at my friend's house and her mother ) that I should have done something, or ( be it years of experience through varying people, that brought on my anger and such at my other friend's husband, that I was ready to take something heavy and pound the crap out of his skull (( Yeah, I would have done that )) ) that maybe I shouldn't have done something. ( Then again, I may have read the signs. My teen friend probably wanted me not to intervene, and my military wife friend, ( and her mother, nice lady ) I think wish I would help, and I did.

In the end, I think, it's a good point, that one has to be careful. I think one knows, in which, when you intervene, you wonder at your part of it, and the priority on the mind, is just to help. It is not to show how wonderful you are for helping and think you have all the intel on how others should live. That is when you actually done real and irreparable harm. I actually had someone do that to me, and it has, on small levels. I am stronger now, because I know in my heart, I'm right, and she's wrong. And what is great, is that I have my own belief to help me, and her's kind of....................... made things worse for her.

Ah well. It's a thing to wonder.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

My daughter mentioned it to me. She's an elementary school teacher (public school in NC). She's a globalist too, so it jumped out at her when they began using the Core Curriculum a few years ago.

https://en.wikipedia...ards_Initiative

and

http://unesdoc.unesc...329/232993e.pdf

Isn't that handy?!

The common core became a part of the school system, pretty much when my youngest was just about to graduate high school. As a bookseller, I am fully aware of it, but there are parts I am not sure. I have to do more research on this.

But to globalize young ones, I think would be very handy.

Oops, Stubbly, I just realized you were talking about the banning of religion in school. What I said in the post was from memory.

I just googled it, and this is the first that came up. (I didn't look through a bunch of the google search.)

http://religionandpo...public-schools/

Oh cool. I am not going crazy. ( what am I talking about? I went crazy years ago! ) Although, I still think those links are pretty helpful.

Thanks for that link, as well. Very interesting. I am not surprised, that this happens through out the States history. And it has occurred, in my recollection anyways, everyone. Just some places more than others.

And I'm afraid, it's still going to happen. *shrugs*

With kid's luck it would be Dad who got the prank. I never hit one of my kids with a belt. If one of their friends would have showed up to my house with marks from it I would report them.

I think that is the least one should do.

Huh? What did I miss, or what did I say?

It's alright, Sweetie. It was nothing you said. I'm just going back to earth on Walker. ( if back to earth doesn't mind ) My post really was directed toward Sheri, and pretty much saying that I feel she is correct, and I don't know how she could be misinterpreted. My feelings, of course.

self evident ? whats 'self' is it evident to ?

I always wonder, when some protest and say that, I then ask to show the evidence of that 'self evidence', I get only silence. Then it's an explanation of it being self evident in how you look at it.

Uh, ................ no........ ................... that's not self evident, that's a personal point of view, which is a good example of not being self evident.

I don't know, bte, I just really don't know. *shrugs dramatically*

If you need, you can go to the drop down on your name in upper right corner, click on "manage ignore list." Type in their name, then you can take a respite from posters who you have lost patients with or deemed a troll.

Who knows.................... ..................... I may already have!!! (nyuck nyuck nyuck )

Or.............. I may just come across a particular poster's posts, and then just glide right over.................

And that great fish's philosophical saying comes across me, when I do that.

[+Sherapy]

Sawry about dat, Xeno. * looks adorable sheepish and sorry *

Big (((HUGS)))

I know I don't!!! *shrugs*

And besides............................. I know Sheri talks the truth.

How could anyone go wrong, following a post like that! How in the world, would anyone think it's totally not understanding and wrong? We all make mistakes, and we all have our own philosophies, but one thing I'm sure of is, I would follow this more, than someone else's is directed with contempt, insult, condescension, intolerance, and such. Plus, with all the ......................... not quite stories that don't seem to be so believable, (yes, even to me ), Sheri's would be the one to go to to keep sane!!

Again, you go girl!

You're welcome!

How can anyone go wrong with that?!

GreensmanGod!!! Sweetcheeks!! How are ya doing? ( I forgot to mention you earlier, didn't I............ sorry )

I keep forgetting, the one person who is closer to my set of beliefs in all this. (((HUGS)))

Oh dear.

Yeah, I remember sleeping over a friend's house, or the many times I was over, and witnessed a really big fight between her and her mother. I still remember just standing there staring ( I was too horrified to intervene ) while her mother shoved her into a wall. I still have conflicts in my head about just standing there, remembering that. I never saw her anymore, years later after that time. I don't think she made it quite like the rest of us. I wonder, would I have made a difference?

Even now, when intervening between a neighbor and friend, and her husband. ( This time I took the 'standing up' part and yelled at him, and if necessary, I would have struck ((doesn't matter how I would have done it )) and he was getting really belligerent.) I wonder at that too. I was so scared to death in side, but I was also feeling very angry towards him and I wanted to protect my friend. I still feel, to this day, I did right. I think in this situation, I did right. ( still room for anyone thinking I did wrong. ) I could have gone off and called the base cops, but I thought this is where I showed him how I felt of his treatment.

The thing is, not much came of it, no one turned to violence, and I think he got scared down by me. ( I think ) In the end, ( not by my doing, my friend, despite it all, was really a smart one and knew what she had to do ) divorced him, and she ended up marrying his friend. ( a friend who felt that she was being mistreated by him. ) Anyhow, it's by their doing, that they're happy.

So, I wonder, ( be it innocent fear not intervening at my friend's house and her mother ) that I should have done something, or ( be it years of experience through varying people, that brought on my anger and such at my other friend's husband, that I was ready to take something heavy and pound the crap out of his skull (( Yeah, I would have done that )) ) that maybe I shouldn't have done something. ( Then again, I may have read the signs. My teen friend probably wanted me not to intervene, and my military wife friend, ( and her mother, nice lady ) I think wish I would help, and I did.

In the end, I think, it's a good point, that one has to be careful. I think one knows, in which, when you intervene, you wonder at your part of it, and the priority on the mind, is just to help. It is not to show how wonderful you are for helping and think you have all the intel on how others should live. That is when you actually done real and irreparable harm. I actually had someone do that to me, and it has, on small levels. I am stronger now, because I know in my heart, I'm right, and she's wrong. And what is great, is that I have my own belief to help me, and her's kind of....................... made things worse for her.

Ah well. It's a thing to wonder.

Wow, Stubbs, thanks for sharing your story, I am glad your friend is okay and I think you did what you thought was best at the time and it was. That is awesome when that happens. I would have not thought any less of you had you have chose another way to help. I love the way you look at all sides, you are such a great critical thinker.

Of course there are times in life one has to act fast and does the best they can and trying to prevent harm is one of those times. IMO

I particularly find the part where you say that even though you had this situation and it turned out well it doesn't make you the purveyor of all others life's now, this is recognized as intelligence, it is what we try and teach as educaters it says you know your limits and what you don't know and you would not seek to mislead or misguide another, and you will act when need be.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Sherapy

[XenoFish]

Sometimes being in the worst situations can present some of the best opportunities.

I had to spend half my day walking on water. Really wish the rain would at least slack off for a few days.

[back to earth]

My view really changed when I began to look into what religion really was. I started see that prayers where just affirmations, studying scriptures was just a form of indoctrination, and while going to church and church events lead to isolation of the self. You start fitting into a box that everyone else is in. You become one of them. If you remove the god component of religion you end up with a set of rules and philosophy.

I personally think that all you need is both the gold and silver rule to have a good life. No one know's if there is a life after this one. So I feel that it's best to live as honest with yourself as you can. And if you want immortality, do something that everyone will remember. Because one day the only afterlife you'll have is being a memory.

"

• Remember that this earth is but an atom in the universe, and that thou thyself art but an atom thereon, and that even couldst thou become the God of this earth whereon thou crawlest and grovellest, that thou wouldest, even then, be but an atom, and one amongst many.
  
• 
  
• Nevertheless have the greatest self-respect, and to that end sin not against thyself. The sin which is unpardonable is knowingly and wilfully to reject truth, to fear knowledge lest that knowledge pander not to thy prejudices. "
  

[back to earth]

Sometimes being in the worst situations can present some of the best opportunities.

... and you have given me another opportunity to quote one of my fav texts (sorry about the 'Ye old English' style though )

• " Thou then, who hast trials and troubles, rejoice because of them, for in them is Strength, and by their means is a pathway opened unto that Light.
  
• 
  
• How should it be otherwise, O man, whose life is but a day in Eternity, a drop in the Ocean of time; how, were thy trials not many, couldst thou purge thy soul from the dross of earth?
  
• Is it but now that the Higher Life is beset with dangers and difficulties; hath it not ever been so with the Sages and Hierophants of the past? They have been persecuted and reviled, they have been tormented of men; yet through this also has their Glory increased.
  
• 
  
• Rejoice therefore, O Initiate, for the greater thy trial the greater thy Triumph. When men shall revile thee, and speak against thee falsely, hath not the Master said, “Blessed art thou!”?
  
• 
  
• Yet, oh aspirant, let thy victories bring thee not Vanity, for with increase of Knowledge should come increase of Wisdom. He who knoweth little, thinketh he knoweth much; but he who knoweth much hath learned his own ignorance. Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? There is more hope of a fool, than of him. "
  

Sometimes being in the worst situations can present some of the best opportunities.

... and you have given me another opportunity to quote one of my fav texts (sorry about the 'Ye old English' style though )

• " Thou then, who hast trials and troubles, rejoice because of them, for in them is Strength, and by their means is a pathway opened unto that Light.
  
• 
  
• How should it be otherwise, O man, whose life is but a day in Eternity, a drop in the Ocean of time; how, were thy trials not many, couldst thou purge thy soul from the dross of earth?
  
• Is it but now that the Higher Life is beset with dangers and difficulties; hath it not ever been so with the Sages and Hierophants of the past? They have been persecuted and reviled, they have been tormented of men; yet through this also has their Glory increased.
  
• 
  
• Rejoice therefore, O Initiate, for the greater thy trial the greater thy Triumph. When men shall revile thee, and speak against thee falsely, hath not the Master said, “Blessed art thou!”?
  
• 
  
• Yet, oh aspirant, let thy victories bring thee not Vanity, for with increase of Knowledge should come increase of Wisdom. He who knoweth little, thinketh he knoweth much; but he who knoweth much hath learned his own ignorance. Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? There is more hope of a fool, than of him. "
  

[Mr Walker]

Maybe some us don't care what you talk about.

Oh i am sure you are right.

The question then, to ask yourself, is WHY you choose not to care.

I don't care to listen to anyone who is talking about football, so i can empathise with you. When i ask myself why I don't care, I realise it is, in part, because football is a meaningless past time, designed to provide a gladiatorial combat between teams, and appease the masses, like the old Roman circuses. It has no inherent creative, constructive or productive qualities, and is thus a total waste of human time and resources. It is an atavistic and at times dangerous past time which tends to encourage the baser primal instincts of humanity.

Now quite likely you have some similar and logical rationale for why you cant be bothered listening to me.

[Mr Walker]

Do what thou will so long as it brings harm to none.

That would be a great way to live if people really understood what it meant Every time "you" make a life choice which harms yourself, and my tax dollars contribute to fixing the harm, "you" harm me.

Every time "your" behaviour causes the govt to pass laws restricting my freedoms, your behaviour harms me

When we live in an urban society which is far too overpopulated, it is almost impossible for one citizen to live without doing some harm to others UNLESS they live a life which does no harm to themselves as well.

Exceed the speed limit, drink or text while driving, fail to control your children, and you will eventually do harm to someone else.

Fail to be faithful to your partner and you are doing harm. Buy cheap clothes from an Indian sweat shop via a major dept store and you are doing someone harm. Buy chocolates made from plants harvested by child slave labour, and you are doing harm, Take an air flight, and you are doing harm to people via the damage to the environment . Use electricity made from burning brown coal and you are doing a LOT of harm .

So how, in reality, does anyone live without bringing harm to someone.

Throughout here, you, just means anyone else .

[Davros of Skaro]

Oh i am sure you are right.

The question then, to ask yourself, is WHY you choose not to care.

I don't care to listen to anyone who is talking about football, so i can empathise with you. When i ask myself why I don't care, I realise it is, in part, because football is a meaningless past time, designed to provide a gladiatorial combat between teams, and appease the masses, like the old Roman circuses. It has no inherent creative, constructive or productive qualities, and is thus a total waste of human time and resources. It is an atavistic and at times dangerous past time which tends to encourage the baser primal instincts of humanity.

Now quite likely you have some similar and logical rationale for why you cant be bothered listening to me.

Hey! That's the way I feel about American Football.

I also do not care listening to people I feel make stuff up.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

Sometimes being in the worst situations can present some of the best opportunities.

I had to spend half my day walking on water. Really wish the rain would at least slack off for a few days.

I find that's usually the case. Although, it has been brought to my attention, that it sometimes can bring out the worst results too.

I often reflect on the saying, 'Necessity is the mother of all inventions' for something comes about, when it's needed. So I think one's ability to perform comes out, because that is who they are, but just didn't know based on a point in their lives.