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XenoFish

Pointlessness of Religion

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Mr Walker

yeah ... I know what you mean , I often give up before I get to the end to ... hurts my eyes as well ....

maybe we could install one of these in the thread ?

office-5a.jpg

Or I could post like this.

i must admit i also have some trouble clearly seeing normal font size writing. It is one reason i make some typographical mistakes and miss some punctuation. i just cant see the full stops and commas and the e's look like the a's.

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Paranoid Android

I dont think it is legal, either , for a teacher to make the class all throw their lunch out the window as a punishment , and keep them all locked into the same room with him from 11 am until after school finished ... way after ... until the police came and some of the fathers and a policeman broke down the door .

Then teacher went 'away' for a 'long holiday'.

You're right, that wouldn't be legal. Certainly it would be considered a form of abuse. I'm not surprised the teacher was given an enforced holiday after.

remember this guy ? (he was a 'good crazy' teacher ) ;

hqdefault.jpg

'Why is it so, young Mr Android ? "

Is that Bill Nye? Truthfully I haven't seen any of his shows, so I can't really say I "remember" anything about him.
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Mr Walker

Interpreted for those that got bored reading this again ;

but I have to respond ... I just have to ! ... I cant not respond ... actually I have already responded with all of this ... but i will list it all again anyway, even though you dont want to read it .... I'm a good guy, really! Dont believe all the stuff written down here about me, that may lead you to think otherwise ..... that I wrote ....

:D

Clsssic !

Thank you. Glad to see you finally changed your mind about me.

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back to earth

Or I could post like this.

i must admit i also have some trouble clearly seeing normal font size writing. It is one reason i make some typographical mistakes and miss some punctuation. i just cant see the full stops and commas and the e's look like the a's.

I see .... you didnt get it did you ?

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back to earth

You're right, that wouldn't be legal. Certainly it would be considered a form of abuse. I'm not surprised the teacher was given an enforced holiday after.

Is that Bill Nye? Truthfully I haven't seen any of his shows, so I can't really say I "remember" anything about him.

Oh no ..... its

\

used to be on ABC every arvo

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Mr Walker

Truth? No more truth than any other belief system. All just opinions on what they think is "real".

No. "Truth" is an objective reality, measured by observable and objective criteria. The truth i spoke of is such an observable and measurable reality. Not just observable but proven and demonstrated by science.

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Davros of Skaro

Here's my reaction to Mr Walker's posts.

giphy.gif

I still cannot hit the ignore button...Just in case?

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Mr Walker

I see .... you didnt get it did you ?

oh for heavens sake. Of cours i got it, but you cant expect me to agree with "it", so i responded in my own inimitable style.

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back to earth

Thank you. Glad to see you finally changed your mind about me.

What ? You really are not keeping up today are you ?

A bit slow with the old footwork again ?

59452-Muhammad-Ali-fast-feet-gif-qSPx.gif

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back to earth

No. "Truth" is an objective reality, measured by observable and objective criteria. The truth i spoke of is such an observable and measurable reality. Not just observable but proven and demonstrated by science.

no it isnt

Even P.A. wrote in detail how you cannot demonstrate said 'facts' and info to support your contentions .

We know that .

Edited by back to earth
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Mr Walker

Apparently it spins off onto your car as well ... the Christian car mechanic in town suggested my car would have less troubles if I 'surrendered to jesus'

Funny thing was - I decided he was an idiot and changed mechanics .... they fixed what he had messed up and no more car problems

:whistle:

Funny, my atheist mechanics over charged and cheated me, so i took it to a believer, who did a fair job for a fair cost, and allowed me as long as i needed to pay for it. ( Not a Christian but a Muslim)

Good, bad and ugly in every form of belief /disbelief.

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robinrenee

Amen to you ! Mouldy Sister !

Oh my Sistah Cooke! I do loove me some gospel music. That brings back some goood memories of the low country in South Carolina... sittin' on the porch for a Baha'i fireside... fightin' off the sand flies. ... dang nab it! Singing til that big ole moon rises up over the marshes. I spent many an evening basking in the Gullah culture. I can actually understand their language. Gosh, that was the mid 60's during the segregation protests. Slavery was still alive and well in the low country... even though it was illegal.

I haven't been down there in a long time. Everybody I knew either moved away or died. Sweet people... sweet memories.... Thanks, BTE...

Can you understand Gullah? Check it out.

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Mr Walker

Adverse reactions and side effects of aspartame include:

Eye

blindness in one or both eyes

decreased vision and/or other eye problems such as: blurring, bright flashes, squiggly lines, tunnel vision, decreased night vision

pain in one or both eyes

decreased tears

trouble with contact lenses

bulging eyes

Ear

tinnitus - ringing or buzzing sound

severe intolerance of noise

marked hearing impairment

Neurologic

epileptic seizures

headaches, migraines and (some severe)

dizziness, unsteadiness, both

confusion, memory loss, both

severe drowsiness and sleepiness

paresthesia or numbness of the limbs

severe slurring of speech

severe hyperactivity and restless legs

atypical facial pain

severe tremors

Psychological/Psychiatric

severe depression

irritability

aggression

anxiety

personality changes

insomnia

phobias

Chest

palpitations, tachycardia

shortness of breath

recent high blood pressure

Gastrointestinal

nausea

diarrhea, sometimes with blood in stools

abdominal pain

pain when swallowing

Skin and Allergies

itching without a rash

lip and mouth reactions

hives

aggravated respiratory allergies such as asthma

Endocrine and Metabolic

loss of control of diabetes

menstrual changes

marked thinning or loss of hair

marked weight loss

gradual weight gain

aggravated low blood sugar (hypoglycemia)

severe PMS

Other

frequency of voiding and burning during urination

excessive thirst, fluid retention, leg swelling, and bloating

increased susceptibility to infection

Additional Symptoms of Aspartame Toxicity include the most critical symptoms of all

death

irreversible brain damage

birth defects, including mental retardation

peptic ulcers

aspartame addiction and increased craving for sweets

hyperactivity in children

severe depression

aggressive behavior

suicidal tendencies

Aspartame may trigger, mimic, or cause the following illnesses:

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

Epstein-Barr

Post-Polio Syndrome

Lyme Disease

Grave’s Disease

Meniere’s Disease

Alzheimer’s Disease

ALS

Epilepsy

Multiple Sclerosis (MS)

EMS

Hypothyroidism

Mercury sensitivity from Amalgam fillings

Fibromyalgia

Lupus

non-Hodgkins

Lymphoma

Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD)

http://www.sweetpois...de-effects.html

Lol that is a direct contradiction to the information i got from using a MEDICAL source to research phenylalanine

Phenylalanine isn't a health concern for most people. However, for people who have the genetic disorder phenylketonuria (PKU) or certain other health conditions, phenylalanine can be a serious health concern.

Phenylalanine can cause mental retardation, brain damage, seizures and other problems in people with PKU. Phenylalanine occurs naturally in many protein-rich foods, such as milk, eggs and meat. Phenylalanine also is sold as a dietary supplement.

The artificial sweetener aspartame (Equal, NutraSweet), which is added to many medications, diet foods and diet sodas, contains phenylalanine.

Federal regulations require that any food that contains aspartame bear this warning: "Phenylketonurics: Contains phenylalanine." This warning helps people with PKU avoid products that are a source of phenylalanine.

If you don't have PKU, you probably don't need to worry about harmful health effects of phenylalanine — with certain important exceptions. Aspartame in large doses can cause a rapid increase in the brain levels of phenylalanine. Because of this, use products with aspartame cautiously if you:

  • Take certain medications, such as monoamine oxidase inhibitors, neuroleptics or medications that contain levodopa
  • Have tardive dyskinesia (a muscle movement disorder)
  • Have a sleep disorder, anxiety disorder or other mental health condition; phenylalanine may worsen feelings of anxiety and jitteriness

If you aren't sure if phenylalanine or aspartame is a concern for you, talk to your doctor. A blood test to determine if you have PKU is available.

http://www.mayoclini...ne/faq-20058361

Coke doesn't use aspartame but phenylalanine. Phenylalanine is a component of aspartame but in itself is not problematic UNLESS you have PKU

Edited by Mr Walker

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Sherapy

No. You see that is YOUR assumption. God didn't make me better but my relationship with him and my understanding of the connection between me, god and all humanity, motivated me to help others. Second i clearly said we are RICH. There is no poverty in our lives. We live as we chose to live, not forced by circumstances We get all we need to supply EVERY need in our lives We dont indulge don't waste and dont spend on things we dont need, but still we are rich. even by Australian standards.

.

Again you didn't read what i said. God requires us to look after and provide for ourselves first. If we are strong and well off, then we can do more for others i garden for fitness and mental health and the fresh organically grown food. It is environmentally sustainable and I dont have to buy food from a continent away. I get to give a lot away to neighbours and the elderly. It would probably be cheaper just to buy food from the supermarket given our water bill but no where nears as healthy,satisfying or ecologically sustainble.

Again your own values are so different, you cant comprehend mine I am not old, only middle aged. :whistle: my cholesterol is under 3, my blood pressure 120/70 and my sugar under 5 I have already cared for TWO altzheimers patients in their nineties for 6 years . You get some help, and also a carer's pension to assist. You get things like aids and improvements for your home, and some respite care when needed. As with my wife's parents, NOT caring for a loved one is simply not an option to be considered. That is the meaning of love.

It is my wife's plan to die if she becomes dependent and helpless not mine she might just need some help. I am philosophically in favour of any adults right to die, if they are informed and mentally competent. She probably would want this even if she was an atheist, given her fierce independence .

You see this reflects YOUR values. Even as an atheist and secular humanist i recognised my responsibility to do all i could for others . I dont need more money, either to care for my wife or to put her into a home if that was an alternative. I have a good superannuation, we own our house, and Australia has an excellent health care system which supports the elderly very well. There are at least half a dozen excellent facilities within 60 ks of our home, including several in our small town, where she could be cared for, all paid for from her aged pension. She would not want me spending a lot of money on her when i could spend it on people and animals who had a REAL need.

Misapprehension or mis comprehension We are rich. We have the abilty to care for ourselves out of our ow finances and the govt does an excellent job of supporting people like us with care in home and facilities. . So why put aside money when it is not required. That is what a superannuation policy, insurance and the aged pension is for. We get all medical care free ( I just took my wife for her monthly podiatry appointment and last week we both had full vision checks all free. ) and the most we pay for medicines is under $5 per script.

Which values? Living less materialistically and not wasting resources? Buying only what you need? Being environmentally responsible? Planning for your life and outcomes ? Caring as much for others as you do for yourselves?

Giving what you don't need to those who do need it ?

Terrible are they? . How sad that you see it so. And as anyone who lives like this will tell you, no matter how much you give away after providing your own needs, more is given to you, and your life becomes richer in every way. For example we gave away $50 each to two young people in fairly desperate straits last week. This week someone gave us $100 out of the blue as a gift

Where I am 35 grand a year to retire on is poverty level, I can understand growing your own food if you have no access, and you probably have to eat carefully after your heart issues. This is not my reality at all we have farmers markets literally a few blocks away year round, it wouldn't make sense or be cost effective for me to grow my own food. We support our local farmers.

Honesty, I think my step dad holds the better value as a Christian man and he would be offended if someone tried to give him the money back later, he would never take it. He would say that this is not very Christian ( I don't give either expecting a return on my money, for me it's vulgar) and he would say if he took the money then he did not understand what it means to give.

Edited by Sherapy
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Sherapy

I think that's cool, your last line. :)

but, if you were taught that the love of God is showered on all mankind, are then taught how there is proof that this done?

I think, you as a poster, have been a part of that contribution, alone with many others here. I'm glad you feel that way about everyone contributing and learning from others. I feel that way too. :yes: I use to read and consider some one here, and try my hardest to see their point, ( I couldn't, it comes across very insulting and denigrating, ) and I don't think it's healthy to have to agree to something you don't agree with all the time to appeal to one particular person. When someone is stubborn in actually thinking that what others have to say is just as important, that someone to me, gets ignored. I tried, and I now see it's useless.

I'm glad you get a nostalgic feeling, and it brings you back to your church days. Since I never went, I wouldn't know. *shrugs*

But, there are different worlds outside of church, as I know you know, and that is considered too.

I agree Robin is a wonderful poster and I am glad she is here; I enjoy her contributions immensely.

Edited by Sherapy
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Mr Walker

Honesty, I think my step dad holds the better value as a Christian man and he would be offended if someone tried to give him the money back later, he would never take it. He would say that this is not very Christian ( I don't give either expecting a return on my money, for me it's vulgar) and he would say if he took the money then he did not understand what it means to give.

Again. How do you get things so simple so wrong? "The more you give the more you receive."

Ever heard that saying?

Well it is physically true..

You don't give in the expectation of receiving, but god/karma/ the universe, gives back to you more than you can give away. In our case god keeps giving so we can give more to others.

It is hard for god to give to a poor Somalian family, and for them to give to others. But its easy for god to give to us, and for us to pass it on.

MAybe when that Somalian family gets a new water source and a vege. garden and some chooks with our financing, they will consider passing on something to others still poorer than themselves.

Ever heard of the "pay it forward principle?" It is a bit like that. You give because you can.

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you are not merely being selfish Ie when you get more money etc back its not kept for you, but again passed on to to others.

Now that we have that $100 back, we are giving it to two more needy families . . It will come back to us in some form, and we will use it again,. and again, and again.

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Mr Walker

Scripture classes in Australia universally need the parent or guardian to "opt in", if there is no opt in process then having scripture is illegal in that school.

Again, this is illegal.

It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that your descriptions are nothing like any state school I have ever worked at, and knowing the laws in Australia what you describe is illegal and would never be tolerated. The worst I've ever experienced, and it seriously is the worst because it seriously shocked me that they did it, was one state primary school I worked at recited the Lord's Prayer during their Monday weekly assembly. I didn't think that was appropriate, but then I found out later that pretty much every student at the school had a religious upbringing, only one student opted out of assembly because his family wasn't religious. I still don't think it was right, but at least the context allows me to understand it better.

Well that's just wrong. At my Year 12 Formal I was awarded the "most likely to be abducted by aliens" award (or was it "most likely to be rejected by aliens", I can't recall now as I think back) but it was all fun and games organised by the student body rather than an actual teachers award. Whoever decided that someone should receive a "most likely not to succeed" award needs their pedagogy examined.

i would like to concur, but add that in south Australia a lot of governance issues are left to the school council to make. We had some councils which supported a christian element ot school and encouraged more religious speakers plays films etc, and others which did not. Some were indifferent and only one in 30 years was hostile to any expression of religious belief in schools

After all, the state, federal govt, and community jointly pay for religious chaplains/counsellors in all state schools to meet the spiritual counselling and well being needs of both children and staff.

There is no constitutional or legal problem with a state school including a prayer in an assembly. Our chaplain gave one before most holidays, asking god to watch over everyone and keep them safe. But we also had prayers from a variety of other faiths This reflected both the community's wishes and the legal framework of the eduction department. The only thing you CANNOT do in a state school in south Australia is teach any form of creationism as science or history. And quite correctly so. You can teach as much or as little religious history, or theology, in comparative religious studies and even in mainstream history classes as you are inclined to do. Topics i covered with junior students, direct from the curriculum, included ancient religious beliefs, modern religious beliefs, famous religious figures, (alongside famous scientists, artists, musicians etc.0 Older kids looked at the effects of religion/spiritual beliefs, on poetry, art, music, architecture and also its role in society and our legal systems over the years.

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robinrenee

That has started to happen here in some state schools, they were trying to phase out 'scripture teachers' coming in and replacing classes in 'scripture' and 'religion' with ethics and morals :tu:

At last ! I say this because, among other reasons, I once heard the little kids here ... just little kids that were playing down the river ..... having a conversation about whether they thought , when they died, they would be punished forever in hell ! I asked therm where on earth they heard that stuff ( as they dont have religious parents and went to the state school ) and they said the visiting scripture teacher told them !

And their parents didnt even know that was happening !

... and NO Walker ... she was no a Catholic scripture teacher .

Wow! Religion has been out of U.S. schools for 50 year now. The court case that banned it was by a Jewish New Yorker, Steven Engel. I think the Atheists have been blamed for it by the fundamental churches, but is was initiated by a Jewish father whose son came home quoting Christian prayers.

Speaking of indoctrination, the U.S. Federal curriculum, which is being taught in all public schools now, is teaching global citizenship. Of course, I am excited about that!

.

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XenoFish
It is hard for god to give to a poor Somalian family, and for them to give to others. But its easy for god to give to us, and for us to pass it on.

So god can't give to a poor Somalian family but can easily give to you? Guess that means that god is calling favorites.

I'm the kinda fellow who will give if I can and expect nothing in return. If I get offered a payback I tell'em to pass it on. In other words, keep the chain of kindness moving. Simple really. I have nothing to gain except a nice fuzzy feeling inside. Seems that you go into a kind act with a subconscious expectation of getting a return Walker. A tad ego boosting I'd say.

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Mr Walker

Good points ... but if he had put it in a fund or superannuation, the government he loves and is proud of so much.... it would have been taken off him anyway .

" Australians are required by law to save 9 per cent of their salaries in an effectively unregulated privately managed system. ... In general, very few people in Australia now know what they will have to live on when they retire. It is a lottery. In the space of two decades we have gone from knowing and not having to worry, to not having faintest clue, and worrying like hell. ... Many people, realising late in life that they won't have enough, start taking bigger and bigger risks as they approach retirement to improve their returns, when the opposite is recommended. For some this pays; for many it is a disaster.

So once they retire, Australians are exposed to the greatest risk of them all: that they will have the misfortune to live a long time.

Moreover, the crackdown on smoking, the advent of effective anti-cholesterol drugs and advances in cancer research, among other things, will ensure that life expectancy increases dramatically from here.

It is a national disgrace. "

http://www.abc.net.a...isgrace/4343108

good old ABC. Got it wrong again. I have always known and been able to predict the outcome of my superannuation since it began in the seventies. In my two funds i ended up with a quarter of a million dollars, which would have provided an income of about 25000 dollars for the rest of our life without touching the capital or considerably more if i gradually took out some of the capital. , but i used some to pay off outstanding debts like the car and credit card. I now have about 160000 dollars, paying me about 20000 dollars a year. this will more than last me my life time and modern people will have a lot more because they will have had contributions all their lives Mine didn't start until i was about 25 when i took out a private policy. i had two large super schemes and a smaller one i cashed out. A private one which began as a AMP policy and the state govt one. i paid for the first while the the govt paid for the other by putting part of various pay rises into super instead of giving it to us as extra income.

The problem is not income but expectation, where people want to live extravagant lifestyles and think they need a million dollars in super to pay for them.. Companies by law provide excellent advice and quite accurate extrapolations of future earnings. A customer can decide what form of investment to use, from cash with lower interest, to higher risk, more variable returns, but a chance for a higher return.

i always stuck with balanced or conservative, and got a return most years of between 5 and 10 %. Some years it went backwards as in the GFC, but some years it paid 20% Last year i got about 12 % from one and 15% from the other so that eve though i took out income of 10% of capital, the investment increased. this is of course a compound interest tax free and so is very good return. All income from my super is also tax free, making it worth about 30% more than earned income. .

Edited by Mr Walker

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Sherapy

Wow! Religion has been out of U.S. schools for 50 year now. The court case that banned it was by a Jewish New Yorker, Steven Engel. I think the Atheists have been blamed for it by the fundamental churches, but is was initiated by a Jewish father whose son came home quoting Christian prayers.

Speaking of indoctrination, the U.S. Federal curriculum, which is being taught in all public schools now, is teaching global citizenship. Of course, I am excited about that!

.

Here in Ca., since 9/11 in History (8 th grade) we teach the major world religions and what they believe, as an attempt to educate in diversity, understanding goes along way in building bridges.

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robinrenee

Good points ... but if he had put it in a fund or superannuation, the government he loves and is proud of so much.... it would have been taken off him anyway .

" Australians are required by law to save 9 per cent of their salaries in an effectively unregulated privately managed system. ... In general, very few people in Australia now know what they will have to live on when they retire. It is a lottery. In the space of two decades we have gone from knowing and not having to worry, to not having faintest clue, and worrying like hell. ... Many people, realising late in life that they won't have enough, start taking bigger and bigger risks as they approach retirement to improve their returns, when the opposite is recommended. For some this pays; for many it is a disaster.

So once they retire, Australians are exposed to the greatest risk of them all: that they will have the misfortune to live a long time.

Moreover, the crackdown on smoking, the advent of effective anti-cholesterol drugs and advances in cancer research, among other things, will ensure that life expectancy increases dramatically from here.

It is a national disgrace. "

http://www.abc.net.a...isgrace/4343108

Sounds like Australia's economy is as messed up as the U.S. economy. Don't you have a socialist government?

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Mr Walker

So god can't give to a poor Somalian family but can easily give to you? Guess that means that god is calling favorites.

I'm the kinda fellow who will give if I can and expect nothing in return. If I get offered a payback I tell'em to pass it on. In other words, keep the chain of kindness moving. Simple really. I have nothing to gain except a nice fuzzy feeling inside. Seems that you go into a kind act with a subconscious expectation of getting a return Walker. A tad ego boosting I'd say.

You aren't reading what i am saying. that is EXACTLY what i said You are just choosing to believe or imply in your mind that i have some sort of expectation of reward. i just completely denied that . The 'reward" is a natural consequence of giving .

Ok so you are god how do you directly "'give" anything to a poor Somalian family?

Now its easy to make me richer because i live in a society of overwhelming wealth and richness. And so god gives to the Somalian family via me. That is my role/responsibility, as a person who lives with god. Without god i wouldn't be giving to the family, so, indeed, god IS providing for them, by providing for me. See, no favourites at all, and because of the nature of economics, i can help thousands of people with 20-30% of my salary for the year, and not miss out on anything. A couple of thousand provides safe drinking water and sanitation for a small village saving many lives.

A few hundred dollars a month feeds a lot of children. Basic, healthy, and filling meals can be provided for a child for about 50 cents each, preventing malnutrition or even starvation, and if donated consistently will do so for years. and a thousand dollars provides for the care and eduction of a child/teenager for a year. We fully support three around the world, even now that i am living on a much smaller income. .

Edited by Mr Walker

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Sherapy

So god can't give to a poor Somalian family but can easily give to you? Guess that means that god is calling favorites.

I'm the kinda fellow who will give if I can and expect nothing in return. If I get offered a payback I tell'em to pass it on. In other words, keep the chain of kindness moving. Simple really. I have nothing to gain except a nice fuzzy feeling inside. Seems that you go into a kind act with a subconscious expectation of getting a return Walker. A tad ego boosting I'd say.

Well check that off the religious is better then the atheist list too, one doesn't need God to be a giver either, it seems it is a universal value.

Same with us we just give I don't need to be told this, nor do I need anything in return, to be able to help is an honor.

What stands out to me is his question how does God give to a family in Somalia without him?

How does the infinite perfection not be able to figure out how to meet the needs of a family in Somalia? I think I see a bit of ego in this statement too.

Well I am still not persuaded that MW is better than anyone else as he claims. Perhaps eventually MW will see our similarities as opposed to our differences.

The kindest act of human kindness I have ever experienced was as follows: I was leaving my hair salon one night and decided to run into a restaurant to grab some soup, it was pouring rain and super windy.

I had on no jacket and high heels it was foggin freezing ( I was shivering making my way across the parking lot( super windy) and an older man out of nowhere came over to me covered me with his coat and an umbrella and walked me to the restaurant and waited while I got my soup helped me back to my car.

I still get emotional when I think of that man.

X are these sentences broke up enough for you?

Edited by Sherapy
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robinrenee

I agree wholeheartedly, but would add that , IMO, some choices, beliefs, and lifestyles bring greater health, well being, prosperity of body and spirit/mind, and happiness, than others, whoever you are. This is clearly observable as you watch humans go about their daily lives.

Yes, I agree with you, which is why I believe in God. It works for me. It empowers, comforts, enriches, guides... it's all that and more for me.

It is sad to watch people in pain, and living half a life, as so many modern human beings are, scoff at a truth which could transform and empower their lives.

Their freedom to choose is more important than what I believe they should be doing, or believing. You seem to try to carry the weight of the world on your shoulders. I don't think God expects that of you.

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