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XenoFish

Pointlessness of Religion

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robinrenee

yeah ... I know what you mean , I often give up before I get to the end to ... hurts my eyes as well ....

maybe we could install one of these in the thread ?

office-5a.jpg

BTE, your posts are very easy on the eyes. You have power points and lots of white space and pictures and more power points and more white space ... yep.... I love your posting process. :yes:

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Sherapy

BTE, your posts are very easy on the eyes. You have power points and lots of white space and pictures and more power points and more white space ... yep.... I love your posting process. :yes:

His pictures are hysterical too!

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robinrenee

I think that's cool, your last line. :)

but, if you were taught that the love of God is showered on all mankind, are then taught how there is proof that this done?

Proof? No, I cannot prove that God showers His love on all mankind. I believe it, and scriptures that I trust for accuracy (Baha'i scriptures) teach it.

I think, you as a poster, have been a part of that contribution, alone with many others here. I'm glad you feel that way about everyone contributing and learning from others. I feel that way too. :yes:

Thank you, Stubbly. You're a happy poster. I enjoy your posts.

I use to read and consider some one here, and try my hardest to see their point, ( I couldn't, it comes across very insulting and denigrating, ) and I don't think it's healthy to have to agree to something you don't agree with all the time to appeal to one particular person. When someone is stubborn in actually thinking that what others have to say is just as important, that someone to me, gets ignored. I tried, and I now see it's useless.

I'm glad you get a nostalgic feeling, and it brings you back to your church days. Since I never went, I wouldn't know. *shrugs*

But, there are different worlds outside of church, as I know you know, and that is considered too.

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Mr Walker

Yes, I agree with you, which is why I believe in God. It works for me. It empowers, comforts, enriches, guides... it's all that and more for me.

Their freedom to choose is more important than what I believe they should be doing, or believing. You seem to try to carry the weight of the world on your shoulders. I don't think God expects that of you.

Everyone has the freedom to chose (as long as their choices do no harm) but the more a person knows, the greater duty they have to impart knowledge and to help people . Not only is how this how i was raised but it is the reason for me becoming a teacher and basically one of the most important reasons for my being What is the point of living if you dont use your skills and abilities to leave the world a better place than it was when you entered it?

LOL its no weight. "He aint heavy. He's my brother"

The "rewards or consequences of such a life are so positive that there really is no cost, or down side, to such a life.

i tend to disagree that i should let people live a life which is less than it could be just to give them freedom. if i know how to improve it then i should at least show them how to improve it. That t might include imparting first aid knowledge, or teaching a child, who is afraid to try how to dance, or showing how some choices bring better outcomes than other choices

i know this is a consequence of my upbringing. My parents would never have allowed me the freedom to be lazy, or evil or impolite/disrespectful, or refuse learning opportunities, or be destructive, for example

Freedom is a much less important thing than many other aspects of life, like; honor, duty, love, commitment etc.;. and freedom is not a right, but a privilege earned by the demonstration of discipline, and the abilty to behave safely, ethically, and without causing harm.

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robinrenee

Here in Ca., since 9/11 in History (8 th grade) we teach the major world religions and what they believe, as an attempt to educate in diversity, understanding goes along way in building bridges.

That's great! Ignorance of other cultures, races, religions, etc. creates fear and prejudice.

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Paranoid Android

i would like to concur, but add that in south Australia a lot of governance issues are left to the school council to make. We had some councils which supported a christian element ot school and encouraged more religious speakers plays films etc, and others which did not. Some were indifferent and only one in 30 years was hostile to any expression of religious belief in schools

The part in bold reminds me of a story the local scripture teacher told me about a school just down the road (next town over), one of the history teachers was apparently very anti-religious, so when he let his class into his room the period immediately after scripture was held in his room, he found that five Bibles were left on the desks of students. In front of the whole class, he began to pick them up and throw them in the rubbish bin. At the end of class, one of the Christians picked up his history textbook and threw it in the bin, telling the teacher "well, you threw away our textbooks, I'm just doing the same to yours".

The kid got detention out of it, but I still think it was a funny thing he did :lol::devil:

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Sherapy

Again. How do you get things so simple so wrong? "The more you give the more you receive."

Ever heard that saying?

Well it is physically true..

You don't give in the expectation of receiving, but god/karma/ the universe, gives back to you more than you can give away. In our case god keeps giving so we can give more to others.

It is hard for god to give to a poor Somalian family, and for them to give to others. But its easy for god to give to us, and for us to pass it on.

MAybe when that Somalian family gets a new water source and a vege. garden and some chooks with our financing, they will consider passing on something to others still poorer than themselves.

Ever heard of the "pay it forward principle?" It is a bit like that. You give because you can.

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you are not merely being selfish Ie when you get more money etc back its not kept for you, but again passed on to to others.

Now that we have that $100 back, we are giving it to two more needy families . . It will come back to us in some form, and we will use it again,. and again, and again.

"The more you give the more you receive" you are implying there should be some incentive to give when you post this.

For me, the giving is the only part I am concerned with; I am not seeking a return for any reason, no accolades, or pats on the back, I am not better then anyone because I give, nor is anyone less then for not giving. Our place is not to judge (covertly) or brag (overtly) or try teach others so we can puff ourselves up, shine up our egos. What is our place is to give and to be grateful for the great honor of the oppourtunities that come our way to give.

Edited by Sherapy
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Stubbly_Dooright

You're right, that wouldn't be legal. Certainly it would be considered a form of abuse. I'm not surprised the teacher was given an enforced holiday after.

Is that Bill Nye? Truthfully I haven't seen any of his shows, so I can't really say I "remember" anything about him.

No, that aint Bill Nye. I use to watch them. They were strictly science shows for kids. It was great. I can still hear the theme chant.

'Bill Nye, the science guy'. In fact, I think Bob's Neuhart's character on 'Big Bang Theory' seemed to be like that character. Although Bill Nye was on that show as himself, I think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Nye

Wow! Religion has been out of U.S. schools for 50 year now. The court case that banned it was by a Jewish New Yorker, Steven Engel. I think the Atheists have been blamed for it by the fundamental churches, but is was initiated by a Jewish father whose son came home quoting Christian prayers.

Speaking of indoctrination, the U.S. Federal curriculum, which is being taught in all public schools now, is teaching global citizenship. Of course, I am excited about that!

.

I'm just curious, ( I believe you ) do you have a link for that case? Thanks in advance.

When we were stationed at a base in Jersey, and my kids went to a military school on base, my daughter came home with a note, and a teacher called me as well, to inform me that they had to take action because one kid was singing religious songs to my daughter. They had the kid go home with a note to his parents about him doing that and why it is wrong. Granted, I can understand the kid singing something that he is use to, but they want to make sure no one is being indoctrinated, so actions are taken right away.

So god can't give to a poor Somalian family but can easily give to you? Guess that means that god is calling favorites.

I'm the kinda fellow who will give if I can and expect nothing in return. If I get offered a payback I tell'em to pass it on. In other words, keep the chain of kindness moving. Simple really. I have nothing to gain except a nice fuzzy feeling inside. Seems that you go into a kind act with a subconscious expectation of getting a return Walker. A tad ego boosting I'd say.

Yeah, and I could be wrong, but doesn't this sound a bit like Reaganomics?

Proof? No, I cannot prove that God showers His love on all mankind. I believe it, and scriptures that I trust for accuracy (Baha'i scriptures) teach it.

Well, cool. It's as you say, you believe it, that's awesome. :tu:
Thank you, Stubbly. You're a happy poster. I enjoy your posts.

Awww shucks, thanks :blush:

It's the drugs!

Naaaw, I didn't just say that! :o

Yes, I did................................................... ;)

Ya, saw nothing! :w00t::alien:

The part in bold reminds me of a story the local scripture teacher told me about a school just down the road (next town over), one of the history teachers was apparently very anti-religious, so when he let his class into his room the period immediately after scripture was held in his room, he found that five Bibles were left on the desks of students. In front of the whole class, he began to pick them up and throw them in the rubbish bin. At the end of class, one of the Christians picked up his history textbook and threw it in the bin, telling the teacher "well, you threw away our textbooks, I'm just doing the same to yours".

The kid got detention out of it, but I still think it was a funny thing he did :lol::devil:

That sounds like distruction of personal property. I would be angry, as their parents, about that. *shrugs*

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Paranoid Android

No, that aint Bill Nye. I use to watch them. They were strictly science shows for kids. It was great. I can still hear the theme chant.

'Bill Nye, the science guy'. In fact, I think Bob's Neuhart's character on 'Big Bang Theory' seemed to be like that character. Although Bill Nye was on that show as himself, I think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Nye

Yeah, I wasn't sure. It didn't really look like Bill Nye, but it potentially might have, based on what I saw of pictures, they are somewhat similar (though not identical). My biggest experience with Bill Nye is his guest appearance on Stargate: Atlantis, when he and Neil deGrasse Tyson guest appeared on an episode together.

That sounds like distruction of personal property. I would be angry, as their parents, about that. *shrugs*

In which sense - the teacher throwing away the Bibles or the student throwing away his history textbook? The Bibles were owned by the school, so it would be destruction of school property rather than personal if it's the teacher throwing them away, but if it's the student, then most likely the textbook belonged to the school anyway, so again it's destruction of school property, not personal. Edited by Paranoid Android
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Stubbly_Dooright

I remember that Atlantis episode. :yes:

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XenoFish

Well I'm just going to keep being me, and you can keep being you. No point in having a discussion with someone who's always right.

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Mr Walker

The part in bold reminds me of a story the local scripture teacher told me about a school just down the road (next town over), one of the history teachers was apparently very anti-religious, so when he let his class into his room the period immediately after scripture was held in his room, he found that five Bibles were left on the desks of students. In front of the whole class, he began to pick them up and throw them in the rubbish bin. At the end of class, one of the Christians picked up his history textbook and threw it in the bin, telling the teacher "well, you threw away our textbooks, I'm just doing the same to yours".

The kid got detention out of it, but I still think it was a funny thing he did :lol::devil:

yea i admire his sense of humour and his courage. When the gideons gave out bibles to year 8 students i always told my class only to take them if they had a genuine interest, otherwise to politely say no thank you; otherwise you found bibles ripped up, put in rubbish bins and strewn around the place. That is no way to respect or treat ANY book Going through my mums things after her death. we found hundreds of books on all sorts of topics including a Debretts peerage from about 1930. Some of the books went back to the early 1800s Every one of those books was treated with respect and given a good home, even those donated to a local charity based book shop. Not one was binned.

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Mr Walker

Well I'm just going to keep being me, and you can keep being you. No point in having a discussion with someone who's always right.

LOL IMO they are the BEST people to have discussions with .You can learn more from people who are right than those who are wrong. :) No point in having a discussion with someone whose always wrong, either (not having a go here, just reversing the point)

i do understand what you mean. It can be frustrating talking with people who believe they are right about everything because you have no hope of educating them or making them better informed. Thus you have no hope of introducing your own ideas, opinions or values, and seeing them taken up.

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Mr Walker

"The more you give the more you receive" you are implying there should be some incentive to give when you post this.

For me, the giving is the only part I am concerned with; I am not seeking a return for any reason, no accolades, or pats on the back, I am not better then anyone because I give, nor is anyone less then for not giving. Our place is not to judge (covertly) or brag (overtly) or try teach others so we can puff ourselves up, shine up our egos. What is our place is to give and to be grateful for the great honor of the oppourtunities that come our way to give.

No its not an incentive or reward and i am not implying that at all. It is just a fact of life and a natural consequence the more you give of anything from love to respect to money, the more the universe will return it to you so you get richer in it

I am not seeking to get anything back either, yet i do, and this then gives me more to give away in a snowballing effect.

Again you show a complete incomprehension of the simple concepts i am speaking of. and impute motivations i dont have. If i was giving money away so that i could get richer, first it wouldn't work and second i wouldn't be the sort of person who gave, if i was the sort of person interested in increasing my own material wealth..

You cant get poorer in anything by giving it away, because when you give you receive. The more you give, the more you receive. But if you think of it as a reward and try to keep it for yourself, the effect stops. It is an age old truism and fact of life,.recognised in cultures around the world.

I am not seeking accolades or rewards either No one knows what we do except you people online and you dont know who we are, so we dont get any accolades from you either The reason i talk about it here is several fold

One, christians are often criticised for not living by their beliefs or doing anything to improve the word To me god is the motivator and centre of my life. Because i have god i need little else in life, no material goods, wealth or power. and because of god's teaching about my connection to my fellow man, i want to do all i can to help those in most need.

Second i want more people to give. If everyone in the developed countries gave just a couple of percent of their income, it would be enough to end starvation and go a long way to eliminating death through poor sanitation and lack of

medical care

Third, people need to understand this critical truth Humans do not NEED the amount of material wealth and possessions they seek. It is a false way of building happiness, security, power, and prestige. I don't advocate denial or poverty but if the human race is to survive, then we in the west will HAVE to live much less wasteful and materialistic lives..We will HAVE to change our mindsets and world-views or humanity will end in war and global catastrophe as we fight for the last resources on earth.

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XenoFish

You do a fine job of insulting people Walker, fine job. Considering that you've basically called Sherapy an idiot.

Edited by XenoFish
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Sherapy

No its not an incentive or reward and i am not implying that at all. It is just a fact of life and a natural consequence the more you give of anything from love to respect to money, the more the universe will return it to you so you get richer in it

I am not seeking to get anything back either, yet i do, and this then gives me more to give away in a snowballing effect.

Again you show a complete incomprehension of the simple concepts i am speaking of. and impute motivations i dont have. If i was giving money away so that i could get richer, first it wouldn't work and second i wouldn't be the sort of person who gave, if i was the sort of person interested in increasing my own material wealth..

You cant get poorer in anything by giving it away, because when you give you receive. The more you give, the more you receive. But if you think of it as a reward and try to keep it for yourself, the effect stops. It is an age old truism and fact of life,.recognised in cultures around the world.

I am not seeking accolades or rewards either No one knows what we do except you people online and you dont know who we are, so we dont get any accolades from you either The reason i talk about it here is several fold

One, christians are often criticised for not living by their beliefs or doing anything to improve the word To me god is the motivator and centre of my life. Because i have god i need little else in life, no material goods, wealth or power. and because of god's teaching about my connection to my fellow man, i want to do all i can to help those in most need.

Second i want more people to give. If everyone in the developed countries gave just a couple of percent of their income, it would be enough to end starvation and go a long way to eliminating death through poor sanitation and lack of

medical care

Third, people need to understand this critical truth Humans do not NEED the amount of material wealth and possessions they seek. It is a false way of building happiness, security, power, and prestige. I don't advocate denial or poverty but if the human race is to survive, then we in the west will HAVE to live much less wasteful and materialistic lives..We will HAVE to change our mindsets and world-views or humanity will end in war and global catastrophe as we fight for the last resources on earth.

Yes, I agree you are seeking to get something back: you want people to give, you want people to follow your perspective (Christian), and you want people to follow gods word.

I am only concerned with that I give, my perspective is one of many, and I have found a path that suits me better.

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Sherapy

You do a fine job of insulting people Walker, fine job. Considering that you've basically called Sherapy an idiot.

I do not find his values any better or more worthy of being followed than the ones I currently hold; he has not offered anything that I don't already possess anyways.

Ah yes, he is incredibly judgmental and condescending in presentation; I think this is the by product of his faith/the way he chooses to practice his faith( not all Christians are like this) perhaps one day he will see that we are similar and seek to build bridges as opposed to walls.

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Mr Walker

You do a fine job of insulting people Walker, fine job. Considering that you've basically called Sherapy an idiot.

I have no explanation for sherapy's thought processes, given that i cant get inside her mind.

But the way she jumps to false conclusions and assumption about the meaning and intent of my posts, is beyond my abilty to understand More importantly, the reason WHY this particular thought process operates in her mind is incomprehensible to me I am absolutely sure from her writings that she is not an idiot and rather a quite clever person, but as i have already explained, i can find no way to explain how and why she interprets my words or my mind as she does.... ( i suspect that like all of us, her particular thought processes are driven by her past experiences and established conclusions based upon those experiences

She is totally wrong in the way she perceives my intent, and in her assessment of my own nature and character (for example she constantly assumes i have created some false imaginary connection to god because of some need of mine, because she wont accept he possibility that god is a real living entity) She assumes that loving discipline traumatises or harms a child, and thus cant accept the way my parents loving discipline created a respectful ,positive loving kind and compassionate person in me who has always loved his parents and respected them and their wisdom, ( i dont think she had a similar experience with her own parents and thus perhaps cant comprehend the nature or depth of my own relationship with mine) To her, corporal punishment MUST create a person with a warped sense of the world. Ie one at odds with her own understanding of it. She might even conclude it made me open to delusion, or created some need to be loved by an imaginary friend, for example.

Yet she can't see this, and despite my correction, keeps making public, as definite conclusion, totally false accusations about me An idiot? Certainly not, but totally wrong about every thing she concludes about me?. Yes Stubborn in her conclusions and unwilling to listen? Yes ( but then i know someone else like that)

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Mr Walker

Yes, I agree you are seeking to get something back: you want people to give, you want people to follow your perspective (Christian), and you want people to follow gods word.

I am only concerned with that I give, my perspective is one of many, and I have found a path that suits me better.

No that is changing the goal post. Everyone has expectations of others, and everyone has a right to those expectations. it isn't self interest, need or greed to want everyone to be more loving caring and giving (i admit to that desire) i get nothing from that desire or expectation, nor would i gain anything if it was met,and poverty and suffering was ended, given that i already have personally everything i require in life. i just want everyone else to be safe happy and cared for , That i call altruism and it would save lives, end suffering, and make the world a better place.

Now i don.t want to leave myself open to a charge of calling you non compassionate, but don't YOU want to create a better ,more just and equal world, and wouldn't YOU want to do something to help make it better? Arent you prepared to give a little to achieve this? Isn't tha t a good/positive/constructive desire for ALL humans to have?

Can't you see that It has nothing to do with god or Christianity Except that this is one way humans can be motivated to give a little to create a better world. i am also a Buddhist gaean and humanist etc in the way i see the world., There are many beliefs which drive humans to be less greedy, less materialistic and hence less destructive of the world etc Even as an atheist i would be a humanist and work towards a better world, but the knowledge tha t god wants this of me is a compelling intellectual and emotional driver .

It almost sounds as if you are agreeing with all those people who argue that ONLY believers can be compassionate caring people who want to change the world ie that my beliefs are the only thing making me so. It is rather the opposite. My connection to god gives greeter compulsion to an intellectual and emotional awareness for the need for humanity to radically change if it is to survive. it is an environmental, social and humanist concern pushed along by my connection to god .

Ps i dont care WHAT motivates people to change but too many people have NO reason to change and are creating a future of danger and hardship for humanity because of their greed and materialism They are raised and educated in a society which teaches them to be like this with very few dissenting sources of philosophical perspective. Christianty is oNe such voice of dissent but there are others such as humanism

There is a separate issue, that EVERY human being would be happier healthier and benefit greatly if they could come to connect to god(the cosmic consciousness) and thus to know and understand their true place in the universe and amongst our species. It would eliminate fear, grief, loneliness anger lust hate etc as well as poverty and inequality if that should happen, and people realised they were not needy separate individuals who had to conform to their evolved biological drivers but part of a symbiotic whole with a self awareness great enough to reshape and reform itself and to improve on our evolved needs and desires. But that is a separate topic.

Edited by Mr Walker

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back to earth

Lol that is a direct contradiction to the information i got from using a MEDICAL source to research phenylalanine

Phenylalanine isn't a health concern for most people. However, for people who have the genetic disorder phenylketonuria (PKU) or certain other health conditions, phenylalanine can be a serious health concern.

Phenylalanine can cause mental retardation, brain damage, seizures and other problems in people with PKU. Phenylalanine occurs naturally in many protein-rich foods, such as milk, eggs and meat. Phenylalanine also is sold as a dietary supplement.

The artificial sweetener aspartame (Equal, NutraSweet), which is added to many medications, diet foods and diet sodas, contains phenylalanine.

Federal regulations require that any food that contains aspartame bear this warning: "Phenylketonurics: Contains phenylalanine." This warning helps people with PKU avoid products that are a source of phenylalanine.

If you don't have PKU, you probably don't need to worry about harmful health effects of phenylalanine — with certain important exceptions. Aspartame in large doses can cause a rapid increase in the brain levels of phenylalanine. Because of this, use products with aspartame cautiously if you:

  • Take certain medications, such as monoamine oxidase inhibitors, neuroleptics or medications that contain levodopa
  • Have tardive dyskinesia (a muscle movement disorder)
  • Have a sleep disorder, anxiety disorder or other mental health condition; phenylalanine may worsen feelings of anxiety and jitteriness

If you aren't sure if phenylalanine or aspartame is a concern for you, talk to your doctor. A blood test to determine if you have PKU is available.

http://www.mayoclini...ne/faq-20058361

Coke doesn't use aspartame but phenylalanine. Phenylalanine is a component of aspartame but in itself is not problematic UNLESS you have PKU

mental retardation and brain damage ...... I see ....

:whistle:

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XenoFish

Maybe you just lack proper communication skills Walker. I understand her and everyone else fine except you. Most of your post come off as condescending. I'm right, your wrong type. I don't think I'm the first to notice this as all your reply seem to have a touch of strife to them, as well as showing off what you know or gleaned off the internet.

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back to earth

Again. How do you get things so simple so wrong? "The more you give the more you receive."

Ever heard that saying?

Well it is physically true..

You don't give in the expectation of receiving, but god/karma/ the universe, gives back to you more than you can give away. In our case god keeps giving so we can give more to others.

It is hard for god to give to a poor Somalian family, and for them to give to others. But its easy for god to give to us, and for us to pass it on.

Its hard for God is it ? Hard for him to give to Somalians but easy for God to give to us.

Sounds a bit like Sai baba, who 'manifests' and gives jewels to the rich and 'sacred ash' to the poor ... or Santa, who gives rich kids expensive presents and poor ones cheap presents .

I would have thought God would be able to give to whoever he wants ? Unless he is somehow punishing or ignoring the Somalians and favouring the rich Westerners . Also, the assumption that God needs to 'take the easy path' ? ? ?

nah, the whole thing reads like some BS human justification to me that makes no sense or logic .

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back to earth

Sounds like Australia's economy is as messed up as the U.S. economy. Don't you have a socialist government?

Oh no ... apparently that was all wrong, our ABC and an expert economist, who reports on the nightly news ( not ABC) got it all wrong , Walker will explain all the 'facts' to you.

he might even deliver it as a sermon ;)

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back to earth

LOL IMO they are the BEST people to have discussions with .You can learn more from people who are right than those who are wrong. :) No point in having a discussion with someone whose always wrong, either (not having a go here, just reversing the point)

i do understand what you mean. It can be frustrating talking with people who believe they are right about everything because you have no hope of educating them or making them better informed. Thus you have no hope of introducing your own ideas, opinions or values, and seeing them taken up.

I dont think I am right about everything , but you have no hope of introducing your own ideas, opinions or values, and seeing them taken up by me. So maybe there is another dynamic at play here hmmmmmmmmmmmm ?

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Sherapy

No that is changing the goal post. Everyone has expectations of others, and everyone has a right to those expectations. it isn't self interest, need or greed to want everyone to be more loving caring and giving (i admit to that desire) i get nothing from that desire or expectation, nor would i gain anything if it was met,and poverty and suffering was ended, given that i already have personally everything i require in life. i just want everyone else to be safe happy and cared for , That i call altruism and it would save lives, end suffering, and make the world a better place.

Now i don.t want to leave myself open to a charge of calling you non compassionate, but don't YOU want to create a better ,more just and equal world, and wouldn't YOU want to do something to help make it better? Arent you prepared to give a little to achieve this? Isn't tha t a good/positive/constructive desire for ALL humans to have?

Can't you see that It has nothing to do with god or Christianity Except that this is one way humans can be motivated to give a little to create a better world. i am also a Buddhist gaean and humanist etc in the way i see the world., There are many beliefs which drive humans to be less greedy, less materialistic and hence less destructive of the world etc Even as an atheist i would be a humanist and work towards a better world, but the knowledge tha t god wants this of me is a compelling intellectual and emotional driver .

It almost sounds as if you are agreeing with all those people who argue that ONLY believers can be compassionate caring people who want to change the world ie that my beliefs are the only thing making me so. It is rather the opposite. My connection to god gives greeter compulsion to an intellectual and emotional awareness for the need for humanity to radically change if it is to survive. it is an environmental, social and humanist concern pushed along by my connection to god .

Ps i dont care WHAT motivates people to change but too many people have NO reason to change and are creating a future of danger and hardship for humanity because of their greed and materialism They are raised and educated in a society which teaches them to be like this with very few dissenting sources of philosophical perspective. Christianty is oNe such voice of dissent but there are others such as humanism

There is a separate issue, that EVERY human being would be happier healthier and benefit greatly if they could come to connect to god(the cosmic consciousness) and thus to know and understand their true place in the universe and amongst our species. It would eliminate fear, grief, loneliness anger lust hate etc as well as poverty and inequality if that should happen, and people realised they were not needy separate individuals who had to conform to their evolved biological drivers but part of a symbiotic whole with a self awareness great enough to reshape and reform itself and to improve on our evolved needs and desires. But that is a separate topic.

No that is changing the goal post. Everyone has expectations of others, and everyone has a right to those expectations. it isn't self interest, need or greed to want everyone to be more loving caring and giving (i admit to that desire) i get nothing from that desire or expectation, nor would i gain anything if it was met,and poverty and suffering was ended, given that i already have personally everything i require in life. i just want everyone else to be safe happy and cared for , That i call altruism and it would save lives, end suffering, and make the world a better place.

Now i don.t want to leave myself open to a charge of calling you non compassionate, but don't YOU want to create a better ,more just and equal world, and wouldn't YOU want to do something to help make it better? Arent you prepared to give a little to achieve this? Isn't tha t a good/positive/constructive desire for ALL humans to have?

Can't you see that It has nothing to do with god or Christianity Except that this is one way humans can be motivated to give a little to create a better world. i am also a Buddhist gaean and humanist etc in the way i see the world., There are many beliefs which drive humans to be less greedy, less materialistic and hence less destructive of the world etc Even as an atheist i would be a humanist and work towards a better world, but the knowledge tha t god wants this of me is a compelling intellectual and emotional driver .

It almost sounds as if you are agreeing with all those people who argue that ONLY believers can be compassionate caring people who want to change the world ie that my beliefs are the only thing making me so. It is rather the opposite. My connection to god gives greeter compulsion to an intellectual and emotional awareness for the need for humanity to radically change if it is to survive. it is an environmental, social and humanist concern pushed along by my connection to god .

Ps i dont care WHAT motivates people to change but too many people have NO reason to change and are creating a future of danger and hardship for humanity because of their greed and materialism They are raised and educated in a society which teaches them to be like this with very few dissenting sources of philosophical perspective. Christianty is oNe such voice of dissent but there are others such as humanism

There is a separate issue, that EVERY human being would be happier healthier and benefit greatly if they could come to connect to god(the cosmic consciousness) and thus to know and understand their true place in the universe and amongst our species. It would eliminate fear, grief, loneliness anger lust hate etc as well as poverty and inequality if that should happen, and people realised they were not needy separate individuals who had to conform to their evolved biological drivers but part of a symbiotic whole with a self awareness great enough to reshape and reform itself and to improve on our evolved needs and desires. But that is a separate topic.

MW, giving to a few Somalia kids, and give vegetables to the neighbors, or throw a great funeral is not anything one would need a god to figure out. I have managed to find ways to give back.

I am not lonely, I have kids, an amazing hubby and many friends and family, but if I was lonely I'd actually love it, it would be a nice break. I am not grieving at present, but if I was I would honor the process as it is natural and I have the skills to get through it. I am not poor at all, we have plenty of money. I need my anger it reminds me to keep things fair, nudges me to resolve things etc. etc. I am not looking to avoid being afraid, I can handle and cope very well, emotions are a natural part of my life, they are welcomed and embraced. I am in no way shape or form opposed to lusting after my husband every chance I get, We enjoy our sex life. :).

I am not looking to escape my life, but live it even fuller than I already do, this year our New Years resolution is to travel more. We have a few trips planned. :)

It sounds like your God is not a good fit for me.

Edited by Sherapy
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