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XenoFish

Pointlessness of Religion

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ellapenella

Sometimes being in the worst situations can present some of the best opportunities.

Yep that's true. I was wondering, what, if any, was your favorite form of divination?

ETA - or did you give up on any and all of that completely, for not experiencing the material realness that you expected to get from it?

Edited by Ellapennella

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XenoFish

I never put much stock into the usefulness of divination. Tried it a few time as it was lackluster. The only thing I still use are the sigils I create. It's not often but I use them because I know how and why they work.

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Mr Walker

Hey! That's the way I feel about American Football.

I also do not care listening to people I feel make stuff up.

Fair enough. It is always hard for someone whose life experiences lie outside the ordinary to have others believe them because most humans judge truth /believability through their own experiences, or 'common knowledge"

In most things it doesn't matter, but when it comes down to something critical, like whether a real powerful god exists, or whether your lifestyle will hurt you or others, then whether some one believes or not is more important

I guess you don't read much fiction, then?

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Davros of Skaro

I guess you don't read much fiction, then?

Sometimes.

TechnoTim.gif

Laterz...

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Podo

Hey! That's the way I feel about American Football.

I also do not care listening to people I feel make stuff up.

Me too. I only like Canadian football :w00t:

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robinrenee

That would be a great way to live if people really understood what it meant Every time "you" make a life choice which harms yourself, and my tax dollars contribute to fixing the harm, "you" harm me.

Every time "your" behaviour causes the govt to pass laws restricting my freedoms, your behaviour harms me

When we live in an urban society which is far too overpopulated, it is almost impossible for one citizen to live without doing some harm to others UNLESS they live a life which does no harm to themselves as well.

Exceed the speed limit, drink or text while driving, fail to control your children, and you will eventually do harm to someone else.

Fail to be faithful to your partner and you are doing harm. Buy cheap clothes from an Indian sweat shop via a major dept store and you are doing someone harm. Buy chocolates made from plants harvested by child slave labour, and you are doing harm, Take an air flight, and you are doing harm to people via the damage to the environment . Use electricity made from burning brown coal and you are doing a LOT of harm .

So how, in reality, does anyone live without bringing harm to someone.

Throughout here, you, just means anyone else .

:tu:

I think you will do quite well with the coming global governance... Communitarianism.

For those who don't know, that's Communism integrated with Capitalism having heavy intervention by the State. It's already in place. I think they're just letting people figure it out individually.

By the way, I just got on here. Has anyone seen Frank Merton. I haven't seen him post in over a week. :hmm:

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Sherapy

:tu:

I think you will do quite well with the coming global governance... Communitarianism.

For those who don't know, that's Communism integrated with Capitalism having heavy intervention by the State. It's already in place. I think they're just letting people figure it out individually.

By the way, I just got on here. Has anyone seen Frank Merton. I haven't seen him post in over a week. :hmm:

Yes, I have spoken with him, he is (at current) involved with other things, he will not be on UM for awhile.

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Mr Walker

:tu:

I think you will do quite well with the coming global governance... Communitarianism.

For those who don't know, that's Communism integrated with Capitalism having heavy intervention by the State. It's already in place. I think they're just letting people figure it out individually.

By the way, I just got on here. Has anyone seen Frank Merton. I haven't seen him post in over a week. :hmm:

Ideally i would rather have no governance at all because it was unnecessary Ie humans wised up and learned to behave in ways which were not harmful or dangerous, and thus no one needed laws or police judges/juries. Personally i chose to live in a community with a great deal of freedom because it is small. People know and rely on each other and there is not a great divergence in values and attitudes There is a 40 k speed limit on the main street because of heavy grain traffic during summer. i saw the police checking for speed and asked how they went. They had spent a whole day and not found anyone exceeding the 40 k limit

LAst night there were a lot of people in the pool having fun til 1 am. It was pretty noisy as we live right next door to the pool and sports complex. But it didn't both me, first because its the ONLY day of the year this happens and second to complain would be out of step with the community which cares for us and is very accommodating to us.

As people become more urbanised, but also as they demand greater individual rights to do as they please, and stop thinking of their neighbours, then laws increase, and enforcement becomes more rigid.

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back to earth

Oh i am sure you are right.

The question then, to ask yourself, is WHY you choose not to care.

I don't care to listen to anyone who is talking about football, so i can empathise with you. When i ask myself why I don't care, I realise it is, in part, because football is a meaningless past time, designed to provide a gladiatorial combat between teams, and appease the masses, like the old Roman circuses. It has no inherent creative, constructive or productive qualities, and is thus a total waste of human time and resources. It is an atavistic and at times dangerous past time which tends to encourage the baser primal instincts of humanity.

Now quite likely you have some similar and logical rationale for why you cant be bothered listening to me.

:whistle:

I think you outlined it in the paragraph above your last question.

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Mr Walker

:whistle:

I think you outlined it in the paragraph above your last question.

No. That is measurably untrue. Religion faith and belief all have real, great power, both for good and for evil. Thus understanding them and using them constructively are critical for all humans, individually and collectively. If football ended tomorrow it would make no critical difference to the world once those involved found other employment (hopefully more constructive and useful. )

You cant argue a point on wishful thinking or personal bias although that might play a part ( eg with me and football) You need to look at the evidences and facts.

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Jungleboogie

Pointless or not, I think religion will always proliferate.

Perhaps in the future the majority of people will believe there are no Gods and they will organize, celebrate and take their own comfort in their belief, it may become a religion unto itself.

Religion may centralize around science, or around humanity itself. Government may be a future target of worship.

Religion, just like politics, naturally fills a vacuum.

It reminds me of the Planet of the Apes, where the mutant sect is worshipping a nuclear warhead.

Religious zealots of any stripe rarely comprehend their zealotry, by the nature of belief.

Edited by Jungleboogie

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back to earth

That would be a great way to live if people really understood what it meant Every time "you" make a life choice which harms yourself, and my tax dollars contribute to fixing the harm, "you" harm me.

Really ! ? :w00t:

Woman_multiple_cigarettes_answer_1_xlarge.jpeg

Every time "your" behaviour causes the govt to pass laws restricting my freedoms, your behaviour harms me

Seriously !?

throwing+molotov+cocktails2.jpg

Now .... I recall in the past you yourself Walker quoting this axiom " Do what thou wilt but harm none " when someone else posted it and recommending it .

Then I disputed it with you pointing out some things and even asked you how you would deal with a home invasion or an ice addict threatening to harm your wife .

And you, as you do sometimes (usually when its demonstrated you are wrong ) , you were 'strangely silent' .....

until now, where you have used it as 'ammo' against Xeno .

You are a curious chappie :-*

Edited by back to earth
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back to earth

No. That is measurably untrue. Religion faith and belief all have real, great power, both for good and for evil. Thus understanding them and using them constructively are critical for all humans, individually and collectively. If football ended tomorrow it would make no critical difference to the world once those involved found other employment (hopefully more constructive and useful. )

You cant argue a point on wishful thinking or personal bias although that might play a part ( eg with me and football) You need to look at the evidences and facts.

Whoooosh!

bc3685fe1f779acbf40c79c8eb40ef1e.jpg

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robinrenee

Yes, I have spoken with him, he is (at current) involved with other things, he will not be on UM for awhile.

Thanks, I was hoping it was something like that.

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robinrenee

Ideally i would rather have no governance at all because it was unnecessary Ie humans wised up and learned to behave in ways which were not harmful or dangerous, and thus no one needed laws or police judges/juries. Personally i chose to live in a community with a great deal of freedom because it is small. People know and rely on each other and there is not a great divergence in values and attitudes There is a 40 k speed limit on the main street because of heavy grain traffic during summer. i saw the police checking for speed and asked how they went. They had spent a whole day and not found anyone exceeding the 40 k limit

LAst night there were a lot of people in the pool having fun til 1 am. It was pretty noisy as we live right next door to the pool and sports complex. But it didn't both me, first because its the ONLY day of the year this happens and second to complain would be out of step with the community which cares for us and is very accommodating to us.

As people become more urbanised, but also as they demand greater individual rights to do as they please, and stop thinking of their neighbours, then laws increase, and enforcement becomes more rigid.

See, I knew it. You're already Communitarian. :yes:

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XenoFish

I'd rather support the anarchist in case of a world government. Who need more idiots telling everyone what to do.

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back to earth

Well, I once voted in Stubbs for supremo el dictatorio .

Maybe just one person calling the shots ?

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Mr Walker

I'd rather support the anarchist in case of a world government. Who need more idiots telling everyone what to do.

Better than all the individual idiots deciding for themselves. :)

Then you have a billion types of idiocy rather than just the one.

Seriously anarchy is ok for the strong amoral and powerful in society. Everyone else suffers during periods of anarchy, and that drives them back to a dictatorship with a strong central phoilosophy

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XenoFish

Sure let a small group of idiots run the whole world into the ground. Sounds fine to me. There is very little worth while on this planet anyway. Might as well just finish it off with a new world order. Right Walker? Isn't that what you want? Everyone marching to the same drum beat? All individuality crushed under the will of the supposedly powerful.

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Mr Walker

Sure let a small group of idiots run the whole world into the ground. Sounds fine to me. There is very little worth while on this planet anyway. Might as well just finish it off with a new world order. Right Walker? Isn't that what you want? Everyone marching to the same drum beat? All individuality crushed under the will of the supposedly powerful.

You confuse the issues. What is better for the most people, anarchy or order? In almost every respect, except absolute freedom, order is better ( Opinion on this varies. Young people, just emerging from the control of parents and authorities into independence don't like giving it up. Older people n less able to protect them selves find more appeal in it

Revolutionary theory sets out clearly the fundamental causes of revolutionary change but also examines the cyclical nature of government After a period of control and repression, people want more freedom After a period of excessive individual freedom people seek more order and structure.

In a civilized ordered and crowded community then most people at least have to be in the same parade, even if they are slightly out of step. Individualism in such society just doesn't work as it does in more frontier or less crowded societies

As i said, i would prefer a society where no rules were required. My next preference is a democracy, where every one does have to give up a certain amount of freedom, in return for order and safety (You can see this in simple things like having speed limits on roads, or laws to stop people drink driving. Is that really crushing individualism ?)

Some people actually argue that it does. I once wrote a letter to the editor of the South Australian Advertiser when it became compulsory to wear seat belts, saying i thought this was a draconian law which took away an individual's right to make a choice to wear a seat belt. i did the same when wearing crash helmets on motor cycles became mandatory. Today I see it differently. Yes those laws do restrict me and my rights but they serve a necessary purpose.

Anarchy crushes the life and freedoms of everyone, except the strongest and most powerful. It also tends to make people form into groups, for self protection or for advantage. This further isolates those who do not belong to a group.

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back to earth
..... I once wrote a letter to the editor of the South Australian Advertiser when it became compulsory to wear seat belts, saying i thought this was a draconian law which took away an individual's right to make a choice to wear a seat belt. i did the same when wearing crash helmets on motor cycles became mandatory.

You did ! :w00t:

Why, Mr Walker ... yuo petrol bomb throwing anarchist, you !

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Jungleboogie

Sure let a small group of idiots run the whole world into the ground. Sounds fine to me. There is very little worth while on this planet anyway. Might as well just finish it off with a new world order. Right Walker? Isn't that what you want? Everyone marching to the same drum beat? All individuality crushed under the will of the supposedly powerful.

If I was the new world order, I'd pretend to offer democracy in every country, to offer the illusion of choice. But make sure to control every party through backroom lobbying, bribes, blackmail, and then use the media as extra leverage. Of course, the oligarchs couldn't possibly be smart enough to do that, could they?

Edited by Jungleboogie
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back to earth

first thing I looked at on that ... was pretty wrong.

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Davros of Skaro

Lookie what I found. A map of religion. I guess god get's around.

http://ultraculture.org/blog/2015/11/30/map-religions/

Let me post it here for all to see.

evolutionary-tree-religion-2.0.jpg

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