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XenoFish

Pointlessness of Religion

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Sherapy

Why tell me something you believe but I know to be untrue. I can stop feeling emotions and choose an emotional response which is appropriate; and have been developing that ability with parental guidance since childhood. My point is that, as I am just a normal Human, and if I can do it,so can everyone . The first step, which we teach children, is to control the response to your emotion. so you don't hit someone who makes you angry or swear/ scream inappropriately. But then we teach them not to feel angry as a response, by recognising and controlling the biological reactions of anger or fear until they no longer appear in our minds or bodies

.Anger, like all emotion is a learned situational response from our social environment, and can be unlearned as can fear, grief, loneliness etc.

I a not telling anyone to cheer up, if they do not want to cheer up, just that they do not have to be debilitated or made less functional from grief. This is not being harsh. It is being helpful and honest. A man des not HAVE to feel anger at a woman who annoys him. It s good if he can control such anger but better when he is taught not to develop it in the first place. A child does not have to feel jealousy of another child, and can be taught not to. It is now recognised that all human fears and phobias are learned, and can be unearned, so you do not feel them any more.

I think much of the resistance to this knowledge comes from people who do not like the idea of being held accountable for the consequences of their emotional responses, and claim they cannot control them.

The classic Is, " I loved her, and didn't want to kill her ,but she made me so angry that I couldn't help myself" That is pathetic, untrue and no excuse/reason at all.

For me, IMO you seem to have been picked up along the way that emotions are to be repressed it's to the point you seem to have come to fear yourself having them, and now seek to impose your fears on others. You do not have an accurate understanding of emotions. I too hope one day you get in touch with your emotional side, you might find it adds a richness you have never experienced. A caring that will connect you to better to others as opposed to holding them at arms length. Emotions are natural, the advice you give about them is not healthy. Anger is natural it never has to lead to violence or murder. Anger sets boundaries and motivates us to find other ways to do things. It is the way we say in no uncertain terms this is not okay for me, it is the way we draw a line in the sand. It also motivates people to change things for the better, it says I have had enough I seek a new way. What you are talking about is dysfunctional anger, the kind of anger that is repressed, not healthy anger.

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Sherapy

Mr Walker, in the (hopefully very distant) future as you mourn the passing of your wife, I hope your friends, family, and neighbours show more compassion to your grieving than you seem to place on it.

I'm not saying people have no ability to regulate behaviour, and I'm not saying that the more you train yourself to live by certain actions that emotional responses to certain stimuli will lessen, perhaps to imperceptible levels. That's part of growing up and learning. But sometimes you just gotta let it out and cry (or laugh, or scream [positively, screaming at someone is not necessarily positive]). I cried while watching a movie the other day, not only is it normal, but extremely healthy. Sure, I could train myself not to cry, harden up and take the typical "she'll be right, mate" Aussie stance. But that would not be healthy, humans NEED to release emotions, and we need to find positive ways to do that. Teaching myself not to cry in a movie or as a result of a beautiful piece of music (like I did at a Rachmaninov recital at the Queensland Arts Centre last year) is not healthy.

Why? Because even if I train myself not to act on such emotion, the emotion will still be there. And without releasing emotion tension rises and becomes unhealthy.

Gosh, I recently lost my Mom as you. I cried a lot, I had a lot of sad days, and in the honoring and respecting of how my my grief played out, I got through, my Dad is still grieving and will be until he isn't. He was just with me for a month in Jan., a year after my mom passed. He is still sad and adjusting to life without my mom, it takes time and I tell him to take all the time he needs. I can't imagine telling my Dad to get over it, or encourage him to hold in his grief, or offering the kind of advice that would hurt him more, or be responsible for driving him to depression and delaying a natural process. Sheesh. Great post, Robbie!

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Likely Guy

simple compassion negates T4T behavior , and simplifies the discussed Motives behind the Golden Rule ? We are compassionate creatures because we Love We love Mama, We love baby brother and grampa, and on and on ...

I've long wondered what basis Morality and Compassion might be based on for an atheist ,apathist ,wonderist , or whatever .. I'm thinking it must be because we are capable of Love .

Love, Compassion,Golden rules, are more than survival tools?

Or raise as you'd like to be raised.

Around one hundred years ago my great grand mother abandoned her three children in the wilds of Northern British Columbia to be raised by my great grand father and another bachelor who lived on his ranch. No matter what the kids did, they never hit the children.

"Hell," I imagine them saying, "you can't hit nothin' smaller than you!"

My grandmother, from there, of course married my grandfather. He was the most peaceful man imaginable. My mother was the second born and, of course, she married my father. He was raised strictly from a Mennonite background. Once, he was going to spank my older sister when she was little and my Mom said, "If you hit her, we're leaving!" He never tried again.

Next generation, my sister married a few months before her 18th birthday. Two years later, my brother in law (raised in a strict English family) was going to spank their daughter, my eldest neice. My sister said, "If you hit her, we're leaving!" He never tried again.

My family now, from my maternal grandparents side, are the 'huggiest' people in the world They thrive on human contact. It's also leaked over onto my Dad's family (the Mennonite side). They feal that it's okay to hug now too.

Sorry for the story, but dammit, from my perspective that's what the Golden Rule is all about.

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Sherapy

Or raise as you'd like to be raised.

Around one hundred years ago my great grand mother abandoned her three children in the wilds of Northern British Columbia to be raised by my great grand father and another bachelor who lived on his ranch. No matter what the kids did, they never hit the children.

"Hell," I imagine them saying, "you can't hit nothin' smaller than you!"

My grandmother, from there, of course married my grandfather. He was the most peaceful man imaginable. My mother was the second born and, of course, she married my father. He was raised strictly from a Mennonite background. Once, he was going to spank my older sister when she was little and my Mom said, "If you hit her, we're leaving!" He never tried again.

Next generation, my sister married a few months before her 18th birthday. Two years later, my brother in law (raised in a strict English family) was going to spank their daughter, my eldest neice. My sister said, "If you hit her, we're leaving!" He never tried again.

My family now, from my maternal grandparents side, are the 'huggiest' people in the world They thrive on human contact. It's also leaked over onto my Dad's family (the Mennonite side). They feal that it's okay to hug now too.

Sorry for the story, but dammit, from my perspective that's what the Golden Rule is all about.

I love his post! Thank you for your story, dang it! :)

I stand with you on this, it really is about how you raise your kids. I used a non violent ethic in raising 3 sons. I was raised in horrible abuse and I vowed I would end the cycle and have.

I am not posting this to stand in judgment of those that do use violence in their parenting, that is on them, but when you said that your dad was gonna spank you and your mother stood up; I have to say this is how I feel about the mothers role. I think very strongly that the mother's role is to protect her babies and to set the standard for the father and if he thinks that spanking is the way; I think she should say absolutely not, we do not hit anyone smaller and defenseless ever as a way to resolve issues or teach anything. I had always taken the time to parent in compassion and the standards I have on my sons I also have on myself. My boy's father is so gentle, it has never been an issue, my hubby doesn't even yell, gosh his son respects the ground he walks on. He says he is such a great man. We make sure my kids know they are loved and cherished. My mother was verbally abusive once to my youngest, and I mean once; I made it very clear to her in firm compassion that in my home we make our points without verbally harming a child. she got offended and left, but eventually we worked it out and she was never that way again.

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DieChecker

Love, Compassion,Golden rules, are more than survival tools?

There was a Hebrew teacher about 2000 years ago who said, "And the greatest of these is Love..."

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Likely Guy

Thanks for posting too Sherapy! :)

That was where my maternal grand parents helped to break a string of abuse that spread to 'hugs' to many other families, 80 years ago.

That's the 'Golden Rule'.

My Grandmother was rustically educated 'Roman Catholic', my Grandfather was a devout 'Free Thinker'.

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Sherapy

Thanks for posting too Sherapy! :)

That was where my maternal grand parents helped to break a string of abuse that spread to 'hugs' to many other families, 80 years ago.

That's the 'Golden Rule'.

My Grandmother was rustically educated 'Roman Catholic', my Grandfather was a devout 'Free Thinker'.

Incredible story! Give a hug this is the golden rule, Gosh, I love it!

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Likely Guy

There was a Hebrew teacher about 2000 years ago who said, "And the greatest of these is Love..."

Isn't that the 'truth'?

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psyche101

Sure, I could train myself not to cry, harden up and take the typical "she'll be right, mate" Aussie stance. But that would not be healthy, humans NEED to release emotions, and we need to find positive ways to do that. Teaching myself not to cry in a movie or as a result of a beautiful piece of music (like I did at a Rachmaninov recital at the Queensland Arts Centre last year) is not healthy.

Normal life for me, real men don't cry and all that, I tell my son he should only cry if losing someone close or a major injury with great pain, and then screaming is the preferred alternative. I do not understand how health has anything to do with it, I would not have a good cry over a movie or something like that. The last time I cried was when I lost someone very close to me. And I didn't feel it helped. All it did was show I was in pain and I prefer not to do that. I hate to admit it, but Mr Walker might have a partial point there.

The classic Is, " I loved her, and didn't want to kill her ,but she made me so angry that I couldn't help myself" That is pathetic, untrue and no excuse/reason at all.

Could not help it, sorry in advance.

This is awesome.

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Paranoid Android

Normal life for me, real men don't cry and all that, I tell my son he should only cry if losing someone close or a major injury with great pain, and then screaming is the preferred alternative. I do not understand how health has anything to do with it, I would not have a good cry over a movie or something like that. The last time I cried was when I lost someone very close to me. And I didn't feel it helped. All it did was show I was in pain and I prefer not to do that. I hate to admit it, but Mr Walker might have a partial point there.

And I firmly think the majority of the Aussie male population could do with a healthy dose of their feminine side. But then, I've never been much of an alpha male bloke's bloke kind of thing. I went to a BBQ a few years ago with such blokey blokes, pretty much the conversation went "Cars, women, footy, beer, repeat". Boring as bat guano.

I have no shame in saying that I cry in sad movies, that I shed a tear at the beauty of a Rachmaninoff recital - played brilliant by the latest prodigy, Behzod Abudraimov, the following of which is him in a different concert, I couldn't find footage of his Rachmaninoff that he played at QPAC

It's healthy and normal, and teaching someone that crying is weakness is the greatest shame in the world. The inability to let oneself go at the sheer beauty of something and become overwhelmed by it, it's tragic if you don't experience that.

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psyche101

And I firmly think the majority of the Aussie male population could do with a healthy dose of their feminine side. But then, I've never been much of an alpha male bloke's bloke kind of thing. I went to a BBQ a few years ago with such blokey blokes, pretty much the conversation went "Cars, women, footy, beer, repeat". Boring as bat guano.

Nah, we wouldn't be the Gods we are if we were feminine!! Bah!

I do not get that, I can understand someone not following a particular sport, but it's more than conversation, it is part of the culture. Man time is needed. It's like a zen moment.

I have no shame in saying that I cry in sad movies, that I shed a tear at the beauty of a Rachmaninoff recital - played brilliant by the latest prodigy, Behzod Abudraimov, the following of which is him in a different concert, I couldn't find footage of his Rachmaninoff that he played at QPAC

Why though, crying for me is just a sad emotion, and I do not want sadness in my life.

What I am saying is myself, and all the males who "bond" out there do avoid emotion as much is possible, I consider it a girl thing and gets in the way. I believe Mr Walker is right, and one can blind unwanted emotions.

It's healthy and normal, and teaching someone that crying is weakness is the greatest shame in the world. The inability to let oneself go at the sheer beauty of something and become overwhelmed by it, it's tragic if you don't experience that.

Why is it a shame? What do you get from a good cry other than a ribbing from men? Beauty makes me happy, when I am happy I smile, I do not cry.

Mate, I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying "I don't get it" and I think Mr Walker has a point this time. I feel I do not bother with emotions I find unnecessary. When they do surface, I find them uncomfortable and would rather not have them. I get nothing from crying, I get no personal relief, and it's not like anyone else cares if you do.

The highest points of my life - having children, being at the altar as a groom, all were very happy memories that filled me with such joy I could burst. I do not see how crying is a part of that, or what it does that is helpful. All I did was smile and talk too loudly.

PS You are an interesting person to talk to PA. I find we have much in common, yet see so much in a different light, I appreciate the view from your side of the fence.

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Paranoid Android

Nah, we wouldn't be the Gods we are if we were feminine!! Bah!

I'm not saying be feminine, just saying touch the feminine side once in a while.

But then, as said, I'm not really the blokey bloke that many others are. That's cool, I'm comfortable with who I am. Not everyone is like me, I get that. I personally would hate to be the type of guy who couldn't (or even worse, wouldn't simply because of social convention) show how they feel about something.

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psyche101

I'm not saying be feminine, just saying touch the feminine side once in a while.

That's what you do when you get home from the pub mate ;)

But then, as said, I'm not really the blokey bloke that many others are. That's cool, I'm comfortable with who I am. Not everyone is like me, I get that. I personally would hate to be the type of guy who couldn't (or even worse, wouldn't simply because of social convention) show how they feel about something.

I just fail to understand the benefit. I get no pleasure from releasing sadness. I'd rather stare it down till it goes by. It's not something I find welcoming or pleasurable. What does it do for you?

I do not know if I am a "blokey" guy or not, I just tend to run my own race. Some classify that as a bad boy, I don't really get that either though, life is for living, I just like enjoying it.

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psyche101

Hey PA, that "man time" I mentioned is indeed like a Zen moment. As a male, there are certain things you just do not do or say in front of the fairer sex. But blokes expect that release. It strikes me that being part of such a cultural moment is not refusing emotions, it is negating the need for them. I find when I am mad at something, and hour on the bag does hep, or a killer workout at the gym. I'd rather do that than cry, and get the benefit of a good nights sleep as well.

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Paranoid Android

That's what you do when you get home from the pub mate ;)

I just fail to understand the benefit. I get no pleasure from releasing sadness. I'd rather stare it down till it goes by. It's not something I find welcoming or pleasurable. What does it do for you?

Catharsis. Sometimes you don't know you have a load of bricks on your shoulders until they're gone. That's just me, at least.

I do not know if I am a "blokey" guy or not, I just tend to run my own race. Some classify that as a bad boy, I don't really get that either though, life is for living, I just like enjoying it.

You sound pretty blokey, certainly compared to some of the other guys I know. But at least you're an intelligent bloke, that usually covers for any deficiency in conversation that may be the standard "boys night out" kind of boredom (as said, cars, women, footy, beer, repeat). Don't get me wrong, I like women, footy and beer as much as any bloke (not so fond of cars, but that's again just me). But having them as the primary topic of conversation for 99% of the night does my head in.
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Sherapy

Nah, we wouldn't be the Gods we are if we were feminine!! Bah!

I do not get that, I can understand someone not following a particular sport, but it's more than conversation, it is part of the culture. Man time is needed. It's like a zen moment.

Why though, crying for me is just a sad emotion, and I do not want sadness in my life.

What I am saying is myself, and all the males who "bond" out there do avoid emotion as much is possible, I consider it a girl thing and gets in the way. I believe Mr Walker is right, and one can blind unwanted emotions.

Why is it a shame? What do you get from a good cry other than a ribbing from men? Beauty makes me happy, when I am happy I smile, I do not cry.

Mate, I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying "I don't get it" and I think Mr Walker has a point this time. I feel I do not bother with emotions I find unnecessary. When they do surface, I find them uncomfortable and would rather not have them. I get nothing from crying, I get no personal relief, and it's not like anyone else cares if you do.

The highest points of my life - having children, being at the altar as a groom, all were very happy memories that filled me with such joy I could burst. I do not see how crying is a part of that, or what it does that is helpful. All I did was smile and talk too loudly.

PS You are an interesting person to talk to PA. I find we have much in common, yet see so much in a different light, I appreciate the view from your side of the fence.

I agree with Pa, when he settles down he will be a wonderful husband. I have been married twice my first husband was similar to MW, he was a bit older and he just didn't show emotion. He repressed so much, it was like being married to a brick wall. My second husband is younger (7 years) and natural, he feels things and laughs so hard he cries, he was so moved when we had our son and when my middle son was crying because his dad was in ICU near death his step dad comforted him, told him it was okay to cry. My husband being in touch with his emotions for me is sexy, demonstrates incredible confidence and security with oneself, he is my best friend and he is kind and understanding towards me, and empathetic. My Step Dad is the same way, I can go to him and talk to him about anything, I think being emotionally real and available only makes a man more of a man. Just a side note, My ex husband over the last years has become religious and in tune with his emotional nature, we tease him about how much he cries now ( it's really great to see) and he has apologized to me for how emotionally dead he was, he said that his soul was sick. I'll tell you, I am happy for him and pleased because his life is rich and he shows his son that to show emotions is perfectly normal. I am not saying you are emotionally dead, or giving you advice, I am just offering another perspective.

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psyche101

Catharsis. Sometimes you don't know you have a load of bricks on your shoulders until they're gone. That's just me, at least.

I guess I have never taken much stock in Catharsis as I believed it to be more a mind associated exercise.

You actually feel good after crying about something? Hard to fathom for someone who does not feel that way, and interesting at the same time I have to admit.

I guess it is like me hitting the bag. My emotions are converted to physical energy, and that helps.

You sound pretty blokey, certainly compared to some of the other guys I know. But at least you're an intelligent bloke, that usually covers for any deficiency in conversation that may be the standard "boys night out" kind of boredom (as said, cars, women, footy, beer, repeat). Don't get me wrong, I like women, footy and beer as much as any bloke (not so fond of cars, but that's again just me). But having them as the primary topic of conversation for 99% of the night does my head in.

Cheers Brah!! Nice of you to say!!

I thought for this sex, having trouble with simply multitasking, that 6 subjects, beer, boobs, footy, boobs, cars, boobs, would kill it!! I usually do not get past boobs myself and I like to think of myself as a stayer. I guess I can add gym and boobs to that list, so that might be my release LOL.

Love my cars. may I ask one question - have you ever driven a V8?

Usually one decent roar, and that's it, you're hooked, I love Drag racing. I know that driving really fast in womens clothing is dangerous, but hey, it's a lot of fun!! (jk)

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psyche101

I agree with Pa, when he settles down he will be a wonderful husband. I have been married twice my first husband was similar to MW, he was a bit older and he just didn't show emotion. He repressed so much, it was like being married to a brick wall. My second husband is younger (7 years) and natural, he feels things and laughs so hard he cries, he was so moved when we had our son and when my middle son was crying because his dad was in ICU near death his step dad comforted him, told him it was okay to cry. My husband being in touch with his emotions for me is sexy, demonstrates incredible confidence and security with oneself, he is my best friend and he is kind and understanding towards me, and empathetic. My Step Dad is the same way, I can go to him and talk to him about anything, I think being emotionally real and available only makes a man more of a man. Just a side note, My ex husband over the last years has become religious and in tune with his emotional nature, we tease him about how much he cries now and he has apologized to me for how emotionally dead he was, he said that his soul was sick. I'll tell you I am happy for him and pleased because his life is rich and he shows his son that to show emotions is perfectly normal. I am not saying you are emotionally dead, or giving you advice is a just offering another perspective.

That is fascinating Sheri, I want to reply properly, but am off to the gym in 5 minutes. Around death is very understandable, it is not something one can control I find, during my father's eulogy I started to break down, and it was very hard to keep it together, but I managed somehow. I'll have more to say to your most excellent post tomorrow with a bit of luck.

I always found females like to have a "rock" you know?

That's why I go to gym, trying to get to Dwayne Johnson status LOL :D That is as rock as you can get I think.

Night all :D

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Paranoid Android

I guess I have never taken much stock in Catharsis as I believed it to be more a mind associated exercise.

There's a reason Aristotle placed Tragedy as the greatest form of a play (his cited work was Oedipus Rex, but most tragedies throughout history follow a similar pattern). Just about the last part of a tragedy is a place where the audience has come to a cathartic response to the whole situation. I find catharsis to be far more than just a mind exercise.

You actually feel good after crying about something? Hard to fathom for someone who does not feel that way, and interesting at the same time I have to admit.

I guess it is like me hitting the bag. My emotions are converted to physical energy, and that helps.

Depends on the situation. Crying in a sad moving isn't necessarily something that feels "good", but crying at the sheer beauty of a piece of classical music (mood plays a part here, so a live performance is always more riveting than a recorded one) is just a feeling of awe and inspiration. Either way, at the end of it all, when it's all over, there is a feeling of peace and fulfilment (perhaps even contentment, if one could put it that way) in which I feel eminently satisfied with how things are.

Cheers Brah!! Nice of you to say!!

I thought for this sex, having trouble with simply multitasking, that 6 subjects, beer, boobs, footy, boobs, cars, boobs, would kill it!! I usually do not get past boobs myself and I like to think of myself as a stayer. I guess I can add gym and boobs to that list, so that might be my release LOL.

Love my cars. may I ask one question - have you ever driven a V8?

Usually one decent roar, and that's it, you're hooked, I love Drag racing. I know that driving really fast in womens clothing is dangerous, but hey, it's a lot of fun!! (jk)

Lol, drag racing :P To answer your question, I have sat in a car with a person who was driving a V8, but I have never personally driven one. I would like to drive one one day, but I doubt it would spark this massive interest in me to begin getting into it big time.

I've recently played a board game with a few friends called Race! Formula 90. As said, I'm not a car fan, but I really enjoyed playing this game. One of my mates who played is an absolute fanatic when it comes to F1 racing, and he says that this game really captures the spirit of F1 racing to the point that it's not so much as a "game" than it is a "simulator". Since then I've thought about getting into F1 just to see what the fuss is about. I watched the first match in Melbourne, wasn't impressed but according to the internet and my friend it was the most boring race in years. The next one was apparently one of the best in at least the last twelve months but I was at my aunty's farm. I think I also missed the next one for reasons unknown. So I'm still waiting to watch a full F1 racing match to see if I can get into it. I could get into it much easier than many other forms of racing, I think.

FYI, even though I don't like cars, as an Aussie I have to pick a side - so I am (and always have been) a Holden man, because.. well, you know. Ford sucks :devil:

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Sherapy

That is fascinating Sheri, I want to reply properly, but am off to the gym in 5 minutes. Around death is very understandable, it is not something one can control I find, during my father's eulogy I started to break down, and it was very hard to keep it together, but I managed somehow. I'll have more to say to your most excellent post tomorrow with a bit of luck.

I always found females like to have a "rock" you know?

That's why I go to gym, trying to get to Dwayne Johnson status LOL :D That is as rock as you can get I think.

Night all :D

When my mom died a year ago, my Dad cried his eyes out for days, and he tells me he still has days where he breaks down, He is still my strong, protective Rock of a step dad, who races sail boats and goes to the gym, most of all he is human and I can tell you my sisters and I worship the ground this man walks on. I had a terrible relationship with my mom and while her and I were getting better she died before we really became the friends we were trying to be, my step dad has been the person I have talked to and shared with from the bottom of my heart and because he isn't afraid to be natural, he has helped me make peace and gain an understanding about my mom I didn't have, his being in tune emotionally helped him connect to me in a way I could understand and it has helped me heal. He is one of a kind, I just want to share the impact and the positives effects that a man who is in tune emotionally can have. My step dad in taking the time to honor who he was, when called upon to be my Rock, was able to actually help me cuz he could relate to me emotionally. It is a gift that has changed me for the better. Thank you for listening.

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XenoFish

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/negative-emotions-key-well-being/?page=1

Emotions are out motivators. While I feel that getting carried away or consumed by them can be bad for us, it can be wonderful at times too. To repress emotions can be very, very, very bad (I know from experience). Because they build up and once they are released from the psychological cage they can cause you to do something very regrettable. Emotions allow you to feel your life.

Religion brings a sense a emotional stability to some people. Giving them comfort in troubled times. To people like myself, this is just false hope. So I do see a point in it but I also don't.

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Mr Walker

<p>Mr Walker, in the (hopefully very distant) future as you mourn the passing of your wife, I hope your friends, family, and neighbours show more compassion to your grieving than you seem to place on it.

I'm not saying people have no ability to regulate behaviour, and I'm not saying that the more you train yourself to live by certain actions that emotional responses to certain stimuli will lessen, perhaps to imperceptible levels. That's part of growing up and learning. But sometimes you just gotta let it out and cry (or laugh, or scream [positively, screaming at someone is not necessarily positive]). I cried while watching a movie the other day, not only is it

I have mourned people very close to me who died tragically from suicide murder illness and malpractice.

.I have an appropriate sadness( refrain a little more from cracking jokes etc) and I chose not to feel severe loss or pain, just a gentle reminder of the person. I chose to celebrate and remember the life of a mourned one and then move on. I see it as selfish/self centred for me to "take on" grief as if I am important when a person is gone.

I will miss and mourn my wife but have already chosen how to deal with it and know how I will behave. More immediately I am spending time with my mother, and we are having her to stay with us for a week because she is getting very frail and may not live much longer After my wife I love my mother more than any one else in the world. Her death will lave a big hole in my life in many real ways but am not going to be depressed or grief stricken or even very sad when she dies There is no productive point in such responses I will read her eulogy which we have prepared together, to hundreds of people at a celebratory funeral, hold a wake to celebrate her life, and then keep her memory alive in my heart and mind. ...

if you do all you can with and for, the ones you love, when they are alive, then there is no guilt to compound grief when they die..

Again it is not that this is the only way to grieve, but it is one possible way. It is only culture and learning which makes us think there is one way grieve/mourn. and that is to be sad.

I am not saying to eliminate emotions but minimise the destructive ones and emphasise the healthy ones. I laugh and cry all the time at things in life. I find, (especially after having been very close to death a number of times) that life is a beautiful, wondrous, and joyful experience. .This is healthy. You are not compelled to feel pain, loneliness, suffering or guilt, when a loved one dies. This is a choice, not a requirement or a biological imperative.

Edited by Mr Walker

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Mr Walker

http://www.scientifi...l-being/?page=1

Emotions are out motivators. While I feel that getting carried away or consumed by them can be bad for us, it can be wonderful at times too. To repress emotions can be very, very, very bad (I know from experience). Because they build up and once they are released from the psychological cage they can cause you to do something very regrettable. Emotions allow you to feel your life.

Religion brings a sense a emotional stability to some people. Giving them comfort in troubled times. To people like myself, this is just false hope. So I do see a point in it but I also don't.

The idea of "re[pressing' emotions suggests that the expression of emotion is natural and inevitable in humans We know from culture and history that this is not necessarily so. You can learn not to feel or respond to emotions or to chose only productive emotions. this doesn't repress any feelings and thus does no harm. But if your culture expects you to respond in a certain way and you do not, for example because you do not feel love for a parent,, then you can build up guilt. Holding in expressions you want to let out can be psychologically damaging. because it creates conflict in the mind.

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Mr Walker

For me, IMO you seem to have been picked up along the way that emotions are to be repressed it's to the point you seem to have come to fear yourself having them, and now seek to impose your fears on others. You do not have an accurate understanding of emotions. I too hope one day you get in touch with your emotional side, you might find it adds a richness you have never experienced. A caring that will connect you to better to others as opposed to holding them at arms length. Emotions are natural, the advice you give about them is not healthy. Anger is natural it never has to lead to violence or murder. Anger sets boundaries and motivates us to find other ways to do things. It is the way we say in no uncertain terms this is not okay for me, it is the way we draw a line in the sand. It also motivates people to change things for the better, it says I have had enough I seek a new way. What you are talking about is dysfunctional anger, the kind of anger that is repressed, not healthy anger.

You totally misunderstand what i am saying We LEARN emotional responses They have a place in individual and social life BUT many people are harmed even killed by inappropriate and destructive emotional impulses. It is healthier to know and understand your emotional drivers and then chose the most constructive responses to an thingy in life And any one can do this..

Emotions in humans are intellectual constructs, not biological responses, We can tell this by observing the cultural differences in emotional responses with something like death. we grieve as we have learned to grieve and feel as we are taught to feel Without teaching via implicit and explicit cultural examples, humans do not learn to feel anger or hate or fear at all A human can't even feel love until they learn its nature, shape and form, by being exposed to it..We are not born knowing those concepts. or feeling them. because we are not born with language or thought. (which is a product of language)

There are many better ways to motivate oneself productively than anger or hate. or fear or envy. or jealousy.

How can anger be healthy in any way? it raises blood pressure, affects healthy body function, increases male testosterone, etc All negative biological responses. Anger drives out rational thought and Is one of the our most primitive tools in our mental tool box. it is a sledge hammer when we could use a small precision hammer for the task

The sentence I boded is incredible. Anger causes violence and murder every day it causes domestic violence social violence and road rage. It is also destructive psychologically because words said in anger do great harm to people and relationships Anger is an atavistic and primitive response and has no place in a modern complex world where it can, and does, do so much harm,which we now know is not necessary.

Edited by Mr Walker

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XenoFish

So what kind of robot are you mr.walker?

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