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Xeno-Fish

Pointlessness of Religion

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psyche101

When my mom died a year ago, my Dad cried his eyes out for days, and he tells me he still has days where he breaks down, He is still my strong, protective Rock of a step dad, who races sail boats and goes to the gym, most of all he is human and I can tell you my sisters and I worship the ground this man walks on. I had a terrible relationship with my mom and while her and I were getting better she died before we really became the friends we were trying to be, my step dad has been the person I have talked to and shared with from the bottom of my heart and because he isn't afraid to be natural, he has helped me make peace and gain an understanding about my mom I didn't have, his being in tune emotionally helped him connect to me in a way I could understand and it has helped me heal. He is one of a kind, I just want to share the impact and the positives effects that a man who is in tune emotionally can have. My step dad in taking the time to honor who he was, when called upon to be my Rock, was able to actually help me cuz he could relate to me emotionally. It is a gift that has changed me for the better. Thank you for listening.

He sounds like a champion to be honest. I cried when my Dad died too, and when my Dog Harry died, I was really really close to them both. I think men do cry, just that the reasons are few and far between, and I hope those reasons such as losing someone, or great tragedy would be happenings that are few and far between in anyone's life. I just do not imagine "real men" (you know, we who do not eat quiche) crying over just anything like a good concert or movie. I get PA's reasons for following a different path, well I think I do, and I am OK with that in that I do not see him in a different light knowing that, but I think it's something some men just cannot embrace for many reasons.

And I am a man, I sledge other men, it's fun, and how I roll, I can take it as well as I give out. I think when that innocent ribbing is directed at an emotional person over emotional responses, the result is always going to be a misunderstanding that divides.

Step Dad, goes to Gym, and loves his step daughter :D I can soooooo relate to that. My wife had 4 kids when I met her. And I have a great friendship with my step daughter.

Thank you for sharing :D

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psyche101

Even though it costs you nothing?

False hope.

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psyche101

The biological responses of anger are LEARNED not innate. People don't just feel things or get angry until they learn to do so in response to fill a need At a basic animal level we have some of the reflexes of all animals but because of our minds we can either heighten those responses or eliminate them I agree with many of your points but disagree that anger and fear is ever the best way to react. With any situation Logic and intelligence work far more effectively. Fight/fight is a counter productive response in modern humans. We learned it via evolution millennia ago, but today our knowledge and minds and technology are far more critical to our survival. Thus we have to unlearn fight /flight reflexes or end up dead, or in prison.

Why DEAL with fear or anger when you can eliminate them n the first place?

Strangely enough I agree, I think we can mitigate emotions and put them in order, and that is the product of an organised mind, which we have been developing for the last 30 or so thousand years. Sometimes so many hit at once, there is no room for the clutter, so you just deal with what you have to deal with.

If that is what you mean?

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psyche101

:lol: That's funny...I find it fascinating people are so concerned with what other people believe. I could care less if they aren't hurting anyone.

I honestly believe that religion is hurting a great many people.

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psyche101

I don't see the 'God' theory as irrational at all. Why should it be? Is it any less irrational than the fact that I am here counciously typing this message and maintained by the force of gravity on a tiny planet with an atmosphere orbiting a young star in the outer reach of a spiral galaxy? At the end of the day, rationality can only take you so far.

Yeah!! Bucketloads of difference, are you kidding?

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psyche101

What fascinates me is that some people seem to believe that if a particular set of doctrines forming a religion is deemed 'irrational', then the 'God' theory must therefore be wrong.

Science has surpassed religion, that is becoming more and more apparent. We have the answers, making up stuff is no longer required.

Edited by psyche101

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psyche101

Are you really arguing that a kid from a single mother will usually do better? Or..... that there are exceptions to every rule? Because I agree there will be exceptions. But the general rule is that kids of a single parent will usually do a lot worse in life.

I had two parents, but they divorced when I was young.

LOL, carry on. It's just me.

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DieChecker

I had two parents, but they divorced when I was young.

LOL, carry on. It's just me.

And you don't suspect that perhaps you'd have done a little better with both together? I'm sure there was a reason, and imagine that reason didn't happen. Try to see the Rule, not the Exceptions.

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DieChecker

False hope.

Yet if someone doesn't believe, then was there ever really hope? I suppose maybe if they were Agnostic??

But, then if something does happen, is the hope false? Perhaps placebo effect from the prayer alone puts the person into a state where they are more positive and then beat a virus, or other illness?

Perhaps this more correctly would be a Fear of False Hope? Or actually a Fear nothing will happen?

Myself, I don't fear, or hope, I simply accept that if someone prays for me and nothing happens, then nothing happened. If something does happen, then perhaps that was due to prayer. I recognize this has a self-fulfilling bias to it, so that a negative never is achieved, but that is the benefit of being a faithful religious person, I guess. I find it makes for happier living in almost all situations. Acceptance of what happens as being neutral or positive and never negative. Not to say I'd not be sad when someone I love dies, but if you believe that person is off to a better place, it is very comforting.

Edited by DieChecker
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psyche101

And you don't suspect that perhaps you'd have done a little better with both together? I'm sure there was a reason, and imagine that reason didn't happen. Try to see the Rule, not the Exceptions.

Yes I do actually, and felt robbed of my father, who I was brainwashed to think was a bad person, when he was one of the best blokes I ever met.

It was a joke mate - single parent - hermaphrodite??

That's alright, it is Monday after all........ ;)

Did you see the recent article where the daughter of two gay people came out and said it was a bad way to grow up? She feels two parents of opposite sexes is better, and that only now are kids attaining the age where we can begin to see what impact the decision to support gay parenting has had.

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psyche101

Yet if someone doesn't believe, then was there ever really hope? I suppose maybe if they were Agnostic??

But, then if something does happen, is the hope false? Perhaps placebo effect from the prayer alone puts the person into a state where they are more positive and then beat a virus, or other illness?

Perhaps this more correctly would be a Fear of False Hope? Or actually a Fear nothing will happen?

Myself, I don't fear, or hope, I simply accept that if someone prays for me and nothing happens, then nothing happened. If something does happen, then perhaps that was due to prayer. I recognize this has a self-fulfilling bias to it, so that a negative never is achieved, but that is the benefit of being a faithful religious person, I guess. I find it makes for happier living in almost all situations. Acceptance of what happens as being neutral or positive and never negative. Not to say I'd not be sad when someone I love dies, but if you believe that person is off to a better place, it is very comforting.

I think a great many people think much more of prayer, and do believe it actually affects things, and I think that false hope can lead to depression and worse. For the average person, probably fine, for (and I am completely guessing here, but I bet you can find me a statistic) maybe 12% of people, it is not. When everyone else really gets nothing from it, perhaps we should consider those actions and see if we can assist the 12% to become stronger willed people instead who can get through a day without needing that imaginary assistance.

I think prayer has diverged too, and it inspired much of that "ask the universe" BS.

I don't think much of prayer. Seems entirely pointless to me.

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DieChecker

Yes I do actually, and felt robbed of my father, who I was brainwashed to think was a bad person, when he was one of the best blokes I ever met.

It was a joke mate - single parent - hermaphrodite??

That's alright, it is Monday after all........ ;)

Did you see the recent article where the daughter of two gay people came out and said it was a bad way to grow up? She feels two parents of opposite sexes is better, and that only now are kids attaining the age where we can begin to see what impact the decision to support gay parenting has had.

No, I hadn't seen that yet. I'll give it a look. :tu:

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DieChecker

I think a great many people think much more of prayer, and do believe it actually affects things, and I think that false hope can lead to depression and worse. For the average person, probably fine, for (and I am completely guessing here, but I bet you can find me a statistic) maybe 12% of people, it is not. When everyone else really gets nothing from it, perhaps we should consider those actions and see if we can assist the 12% to become stronger willed people instead who can get through a day without needing that imaginary assistance.

I don't doubt that there are some people who will react badly to failed prayers, but wouldn't these people react badly to most everything if it failed?

I would say that in addition to possible prayer, someone who is sick should ALWAYS seem medical attention. Always! The people who let their kids die because they get a minor infection and will not go see a doctor are monsters. :cry:

I think prayer has diverged too, and it inspired much of that "ask the universe" BS.

I don't think much of prayer. Seems entirely pointless to me.

I've just never seen any reason to not try it. Like taking shark cartilage pills to fight cancer. There's no proof it works at all. But for twenty dollars a bottle, you can take them and hope that they do something positive. :tu:

I'm not sure what "ask the universe" means? :unsure2:

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Stubbly_Dooright

I repeat, atheists and agnostics who repeatedly post in this section of the forum are self-deists.

They think that their opinion makes them God.

Where do you get that idea?!?!?!?

:tu: I just meant to point out that though religion can be a security blanket, humanity can use anything for that blanket. I wasn't considering it dishonorable, just simply a very human thing to do.

Oh, ok, I see your point. :)
:tu: I understand, and see your points.

Many of those families that have abusive fathers, or mothers, are the result of one or the other pf that abusive person's own parents being abusive. What we have there is a cycle of abuse, which is a Human problem, not a man problem.

I agree.
Given a completely healthy parental situation. Having a male parent and a female parent provides the best situation for kids of both sexes to be raised. Don't get me wrong, I think a two parent gay family is also better then a single parent family. And I way, way, way would prefer even a single parent family to a kid going into the foster program, or adoption. I've known several adopted kids and they all have issues based on the fact they were adopted.
I see your thoughts here. Thank you, and I'm like thinking, yeah, married people of two, are what I feel are the best formula. The thing is, I see that as a basic understanding of raising children, but I also feel it's in the mindset and stability of those raising the children. I often reflect on that, my thoughts on thinking married people of two are the best, but see so many different healthy mindsets and different family set ups and see healthy kids, and see so many married people of two, and basically that formula doesn't always work. I have a problem with how some people think adoption is in there, when it's still the same formula when it's in the married set of two. Hell, I have good friends that adopted their two kids, and those two kids have the healthiest and happiest childhood so far. They are great kids! Well, their parents are great parents. :yes: In my experience, I rarely see adopted kids have issues, there is one instance, but it was the individual who had their own issues. I would think that kids who are adopted would see how their parents worked hard in wanting them.
Doubtless there are tons of people who were adopted and who were fostered, and who were raised by a single mother, who did Fantastically. But who is to say that if those same people had had two natural parents, a man and a woman, that they wouldn't have done even batter, and been even more healthy? Statistics would seem to indicate this to be true.
I am kind of on the fence with statistics, they seem sterile to me. I see statistics shown from different sources and they are always different. That is not to say I ignore them, I'm just more wavy about them. I see my experiences around me, and living on military bases tend to show more, I see how I view this directly. *shrugs*
Are there not abusive mothers, and abusive fathers? Are men more prone to mental instability?

Good questions. I would think both are. I mean, I'm a female, and I could be prone to mental instability.............*jumps out of a window* ............................ just kidding!!!! :D

Well, to go back to the living on military bases again, trust me, both are not immune!!!!

What a touching post Sharon, I appreciate your candor and sharing. I hope MW finds value in it.

Yeah, I hope so too. ;):) Thank you, Sheri. :blush:
You brought in an excellent point how kids have natural emotions and we as the parent, teach them how to apply them. In our generation some parents taught in error and caused a lot of harm. My sister is coming out of a mess right now, getting better little by little as she remembers how to be whole, how to cry, how to grief, how to be happy, how to live.
My thoughts are on your sister. :wub: I'm glad she is getting better.
I posted a link that speaks of the positivity of anger too. http://www.apa.org/h...nize-anger.aspx

I have to say there have been times in my life that anger felt good. When the city came out and heavily fined and closed down an illegal business that was causing the neighborhood so much grief, including robberies. It felt fantastic that my outrage pushed me to seek a solution and that I was the one dropped the dime. It was an awesome feeling, that the law worked and the problem is gone and I made lives better. I have to say when I went to the Museum of Tolerance and learned how the Jewish have used anger in such a humanitarian way to raise awareness it moved not only me, but every person in the tolerance clinic. I experienced the power of anger at its highest expression, it seeks to change the world for the better and does. Anger has been at the core of many great movements.

I know by experience, that you are right. I often find that I drive even better when extremely angry. I know, you would think that it would be worse, but I find, while being mindful not to drive bad while angry, I find myself more in tuned in my driving because everything is now so super hypersensitive. Plus, sometimes people seeing you mean business is probably the best communication. I have one experience that matches yours. One of my neighbors and friends on the military base, who is probably the most timid and sweetest and nicest person ever, called up the base one time to show her anger. When they go around housing and write up up for yard infractions, they did a horrible job. When it snows and ices up, they are suppose to at least shovel our parking lot. We are suppose to shovel our walks and keep them free from ice. Well, again they didn't shovel our parking lot, but they didn't waste time writing up my neighbor for the ice on their sidewalk. She was furious. She called them up and left a livid voice mail. She told them how dare they neglect the parking lot when pregnant women are falling down, (this has happened) and then do something so stupidly trivial as write up about the sidewalk. I was amazed at her for doing this. Sure enough, an hour later there was a plow truck with a die icer on it in our parking lot.

Speaking of those people that write up in factions on our yards. We had someone, who we nicknamed the 'grass nazi' always come around and write up the stupidest things. Everyone always got written up. He even had the gall to come into the back yard, where they are not suppose to go, and talk to me and my other friend and neighbor while we were watching our children play. He was telling us, in a nasty way, about writing us up for this and that. My friend was like, ok ok, and she was so sweet about it. I just glared at him. My way of telling him, you can't order us around and do this to us when you are in the wrong. (he has been getting a lot of complaints). Interesting enough, the next time he was around, I was walking my son into our front yard and we passed each other. I was giving him a straight look in the eye, and he was avoiding my eye contact. Then found out, that even though the little stuff that was in both mine and my neighbor's yard that he would normally write up, he wrote her yard up but not ours. Go figure. I told my friend that. Although, there wasn't any chance to see if she should try it out, my husband came home later and told me the 'grass nazi' was fired. The guy showed his nastiness, but was scared of me. Huh?

Oh, sorry, I also wanted to remark on your link. Awesome link. That's another thing, there will always be physical problems from trying to deny our emotions. Chest pains, headaches, they always happen when someone things they have the will to deny their emotions. This is what I am talking about to MW about walking time bombs. :yes:

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Stubbly_Dooright

Raptor a true atheist and agnostic would want proof. Before accepting some "prophetic" claim. Otherwise it just looks like attention seeking. There have been a lot of false prophets. No one can predict the future. All we can do is make an educated guess at most.

*raises a glass to XenoFish*

...or just throw crap at the wall in the hope that something sticks, ignore the rest, and then pretend that you're a prophet.

* then spits out the sip she took because of the mental images this post gave her*

I kid Likely Guy, here here on your post. :D :tu

Strangely enough I agree, I think we can mitigate emotions and put them in order, and that is the product of an organised mind, which we have been developing for the last 30 or so thousand years. Sometimes so many hit at once, there is no room for the clutter, so you just deal with what you have to deal with.

If that is what you mean?

I actually don't think that is what he means. The thing is, I think what you are saying is what the rest of us is saying. Migating emotions and put them in order, isn't that the same thing of acknowledging them and working through them? :yes: I think you are also saying there are there and we work through them. If I am getting you correctly.
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Michelle

Why not?

Okay, maybe you just aren't interested in what makes people 'tick', but others are and an answer to such a conundrum would surely be most interesting?

Oh, I'm very interested in what makes people "tick". That is one of the reasons I love this site. In most social settings though people very rarely talk about religion and I never initiate a religious conversation. The gay Christian friends and relatives I have were Christian before realizing they were gay. I'm more likely to ask them how their friends and the church reacted to the news. I'm more concerned about their feelings and reassuring them that I will always be there for them than prying. I don't let my curiosity trump someone else's comfort level.

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Sherapy

He sounds like a champion to be honest. I cried when my Dad died too, and when my Dog Harry died, I was really really close to them both. I think men do cry, just that the reasons are few and far between, and I hope those reasons such as losing someone, or great tragedy would be happenings that are few and far between in anyone's life. I just do not imagine "real men" (you know, we who do not eat quiche) crying over just anything like a good concert or movie. I get PA's reasons for following a different path, well I think I do, and I am OK with that in that I do not see him in a different light knowing that, but I think it's something some men just cannot embrace for many reasons.

And I am a man, I sledge other men, it's fun, and how I roll, I can take it as well as I give out. I think when that innocent ribbing is directed at an emotional person over emotional responses, the result is always going to be a misunderstanding that divides.

Step Dad, goes to Gym, and loves his step daughter :D I can soooooo relate to that. My wife had 4 kids when I met her. And I have a great friendship with my step daughter.

Thank you for sharing :D

I appreciate your kind words, and I do not think you are any less because you you express yourself without tears. A step Dad to me Is more noble, they step up and take on another's job for what ever reasons (in my case my Dad died when I was young). There really are not words for the value and impact a step dad has on a child and to hear you have a great friendship with your step daughter is beautiful, I actually can relate, my step Dad as of late has become one of my dearest friends and confidants.

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Sherapy

Not if he keeps kissing blokes at weddings!! (You're never gonna live that down PA!! LOL)

Nah, but seriously, I think there is a point. We saw the move to "metro" men in the norties, (what I call the 2,000;s, you know we had the 80's 90's, and now the 00's) I found it extraordinarily distasteful and saw men letting themselves down. Nothing cool or hip about it at all. It was a chance for gay men to express that, and I guess that is how the global Western culture whent from "What - gay ******, bash him" to a simple shrug of the shoulders. It has calmed down thank goodness, but it takes away from what a man is, and others view a man with strong emotions as weak. It might be OK in some personal situations, but to me, not something I would encourage my son to embrace. PA is an understanding person, and a great fellow I agree, but a softer attitude and feminine emotions don't bring home a paycheck, or keep unwanted intruders at bay (like daughters boyfriends!!) At the end of the day, to come onto a construction site and say one cried at a piano concert is going to get you a ribbing from the men. I would not cry at a piano recital, I could not sit all the way through it, I'd be looking for the bar. And when I see that men are so different in an everyday capacity, it strikes me that the differences must be deeper than that. There are surely "types" of men, but I don't see anything wrong with a man who is what I consider "past" emotional responses. The other pressures in life make such instances just seem a waste of time.

Which is another thing again - time, can that make the difference? I come from a high paced action world of large construction, PA comes from a church background, very different, yet so many things in common, that we see in very different ways. I would imagine there is little pressure for PA to ensure his duties are encapsulated, yet with my deadlines and design requests are dime a dozen all day long and have more than once led to me seeing the sun go down and come up again, leading to a very alert state most of the time. When I go out and enjoy myself, I hit it hard. I wonder if PA is more a social laid back person when given the chance to socialise?

That's another thing that I might be quite different with. I am only doing the "married" thing once. If it goes to hell in a handbasket, I'm done. I do not show emotion to a point of tears over art or music, but I am constantly torn as to make the bills meet, what builder is going to put me under pressure tomorrow or if the fridge has food in it. These pressures seem to take up all of my time, but I am the sort of husband who still manages to remember flowers at least twice a month and chocolates every week. Being methodical has it's advantages too, particularly if you are a regular chocolate person!

I can be surprising too though. When I proposed my partner was really cranky as I was late home from work - picking up the ring, getting flowers champagne, etc. I got home to an irate lady who thought I had been on it with mates at the pub i topless night, instead I pushed her playfully onto a chair and blindfolded her, she was mystified, but curiously went along with it. I then carried her out to the car, buckled her in and took her for a good half hour drive through the mountains. She was getting really worried when I suddenly stopped and left the car and asked her to stay there while I madly set up flowers strawberries & champagne and placed the ring in the roses so she would see it when she smelled them. I then ran back to the car, and led her still blindfolded to a table on on outcrop overlooking city lights all alone. Removed the blindfold, popped the champagne, had half a glass, dipped a strawberry in the Champagne for her, asked her if her flowers smelled as good as she did. She spotted the ring straight away so I got down on one knee and popped the question.

She seemed pleased with the effort. Was a good night too.

LOL, I'm a "younger man" too, but only 3 years. I get some mileage out of that though.

See, I'm good with that, as I mentioned, the loss of a loved one is hard to overcome, be that to death, travel, illness or just parting ways, it can change your life. I think I mentioned when I had to deliver my Father's eulogy, I nearly didn't make it, but I dug deep for good old Dad and made sure I finished the job and could hold my head up. And if he was looking down on me at the time, he would not have been disappointed in the tears, and I would not for my son either. They come, but I find for a man, there is a time and place, and they are few and far between. Crying just does not help. Not for me.

Hard for me to see emotions as sexy, but then I don't place value in emotion, to me it's just another thing this body does.

To be completely and bluntly honest, it sounds like he felt he made a mistake and does not want to make it again. I do not think women get even an idea of what they mean to a man, which is why I won't marry again. I won't love again as completely as I have with my vows - where the marriage bit comes in. More than a bit of paper. I get that impression because it seems so much easier for a woman to break that bond, of the men I know, the majority are divorced, and few deserved that saw it coming or understood it. They could not do what was done to them, and it destroys lives and changes people fundamentally. And a lot of people turn to religion when they need some help, seeing a shrink can be expensive and in some cases a bit embarrassing. The words like "soul was sick" sound like they come from a preacher, not his inner self. I may well be wrong there, but from an outside view, that is what it seems like. And he apologise to you, because it sounds like hes still has feelings for you, and wishes they could be realised.

From a man's POV anyway.

The ex and I have been split for 20 years, I consider him a friend and vice versa, he is living the life he wants and so am I. For us, divorce was a gift, we now get along and respect each other something we never accomplished married. What I learned from the mistakes in my failed marriage have gone a long way in giving me the tools and understanding to create a partnership that is filled with love and happiness. My husband is like you he thinks marriage should be once and I think that is a great attitude because it tends to make those in the commitment try harder to work things out. Yet, there just are times when the differences and compatibility are just not there and it would cause more harm then good to try and live with it.

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Sherapy

Where do you get that idea?!?!?!?

Oh, ok, I see your point. :)

I agree.

I see your thoughts here. Thank you, and I'm like thinking, yeah, married people of two, are what I feel are the best formula. The thing is, I see that as a basic understanding of raising children, but I also feel it's in the mindset and stability of those raising the children. I often reflect on that, my thoughts on thinking married people of two are the best, but see so many different healthy mindsets and different family set ups and see healthy kids, and see so many married people of two, and basically that formula doesn't always work. I have a problem with how some people think adoption is in there, when it's still the same formula when it's in the married set of two. Hell, I have good friends that adopted their two kids, and those two kids have the healthiest and happiest childhood so far. They are great kids! Well, their parents are great parents. :yes: In my experience, I rarely see adopted kids have issues, there is one instance, but it was the individual who had their own issues. I would think that kids who are adopted would see how their parents worked hard in wanting them.

I am kind of on the fence with statistics, they seem sterile to me. I see statistics shown from different sources and they are always different. That is not to say I ignore them, I'm just more wavy about them. I see my experiences around me, and living on military bases tend to show more, I see how I view this directly. *shrugs*

Good questions. I would think both are. I mean, I'm a female, and I could be prone to mental instability.............*jumps out of a window* ............................ just kidding!!!! :D

Well, to go back to the living on military bases again, trust me, both are not immune!!!!

Yeah, I hope so too. ;):) Thank you, Sheri. :blush: My thoughts are on your sister. :wub: I'm glad she is getting better.

I know by experience, that you are right. I often find that I drive even better when extremely angry. I know, you would think that it would be worse, but I find, while being mindful not to drive bad while angry, I find myself more in tuned in my driving because everything is now so super hypersensitive. Plus, sometimes people seeing you mean business is probably the best communication. I have one experience that matches yours. One of my neighbors and friends on the military base, who is probably the most timid and sweetest and nicest person ever, called up the base one time to show her anger. When they go around housing and write up up for yard infractions, they did a horrible job. When it snows and ices up, they are suppose to at least shovel our parking lot. We are suppose to shovel our walks and keep them free from ice. Well, again they didn't shovel our parking lot, but they didn't waste time writing up my neighbor for the ice on their sidewalk. She was furious. She called them up and left a livid voice mail. She told them how dare they neglect the parking lot when pregnant women are falling down, (this has happened) and then do something so stupidly trivial as write up about the sidewalk. I was amazed at her for doing this. Sure enough, an hour later there was a plow truck with a die icer on it in our parking lot.

Speaking of those people that write up in factions on our yards. We had someone, who we nicknamed the 'grass nazi' always come around and write up the stupidest things. Everyone always got written up. He even had the gall to come into the back yard, where they are not suppose to go, and talk to me and my other friend and neighbor while we were watching our children play. He was telling us, in a nasty way, about writing us up for this and that. My friend was like, ok ok, and she was so sweet about it. I just glared at him. My way of telling him, you can't order us around and do this to us when you are in the wrong. (he has been getting a lot of complaints). Interesting enough, the next time he was around, I was walking my son into our front yard and we passed each other. I was giving him a straight look in the eye, and he was avoiding my eye contact. Then found out, that even though the little stuff that was in both mine and my neighbor's yard that he would normally write up, he wrote her yard up but not ours. Go figure. I told my friend that. Although, there wasn't any chance to see if she should try it out, my husband came home later and told me the 'grass nazi' was fired. The guy showed his nastiness, but was scared of me. Huh?

Oh, sorry, I also wanted to remark on your link. Awesome link. That's another thing, there will always be physical problems from trying to deny our emotions. Chest pains, headaches, they always happen when someone things they have the will to deny their emotions. This is what I am talking about to MW about walking time bombs. :yes:

Exactly, there are times anger just feels great, in the examples I gave and the ones you did does a great job of showing how anger used constructively results in conflict resolution and often preventative measures. I took my youngest (as part of a school recommended field trip) to the Museum of Tolerance there are only 3 of them in the world. http://www.museumoftolerance.com/site/c.tmL6KfNVLtH/b.9052747/k.BEE4/Home.htm

I came in with a somewhat decent grasp of tolerance, and left with a comprehensive, life changing, what it really means to be human, the good, the bad and the ugly, but most of all I learned about the passion of anger and used constructively it changes things for the better, and the idea is not that we repress our anger, or leave it to grow resentful and hostile, which only hastens it to become aggressive and harmful, but that we can use it constructively, harmlessly, altruistically. I learned that day that anger used at its highest level is altruistic in application. Of course one can repress and deny they have emotions or anger as MW has posted again and again, it is on us as posters to apply critical thinking skills to what we read, discern the credible from the credulous. All he is telling me is he was taught to repress his emotions, this is what he does, and lots of people use a coping style of only acknowledging the good they think that being spiritually in tune or godly means life must be presented as only rainbows and butterfly's, and while this is great as long as life works, and is fantastic at times, what happens when it isn't these people have high stress levels and have a hard time functioning. This was my mom's coping style, she was miserable most of the time, emotionless, she had two mental collapses that required hospitalization, she refused therapy because she just knew better, her relationships lacked in intimacy, most were ridden in conflict, she was always in dramas that generated conflict, everyone was always out to get her, and she could never talk about anything. I personally think that the constantly being involved in drama and arguments was how she vented the repressed anger. For me, life has stress, (good and bad) and terribly hard times, and things happen that bother me, and I have angry moments, happy moments, and incredibly sad ones, This is reality though and I have adopted a coping style that is adaptive, flexible, realistic to the situation at hand. I communicate my feelings if upset, or angry, happy, or sad, I take responsibility for my emotions and in doing so they are constructive in application. The aspects that are viable in MW's post is it illustrates that repressing or denying our emotions points out that in doing so it can lead to aggression and maladaptive behaviors, health issues, or like my sister an inability to function.

Edited by Sherapy
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LostSouls7

Good lord this is a long thread!

well i grew up in a bible church family. After a while is got boring.

So sum it up, follow the leader, don't ask questions. And oh yes put money in the box!

Also I didn't fit in the church.

As a seen I got into i guess dark stuff. Messing with the dark arts or negative side of life.

This attracted spirits or things around me. Supernatural things happened.

Like doors slamming on their own. VCR cabinet doors opening etc.

But I got away from all that dark stuff, became more positive.

if you want to know the real power? The Master Key.

Find it for free on youtube or online.

All the successful people who talk about the Law of Attraction positive thinking

like tony robbins and others all read the master key.

Some call is magic. Others call it knowing how things work

and bending things to your advantage.

What I can say ever since I got into magic I make more money, i get what I want.

Before I didn't like my life or what I was getting.

Bottom line organized religion was holding me back.

They told me to be content being poor! I tell

them I will get rich by evil power is it must be. :)

But evil power i mean magic, and positive thinking Master key

and law of attraction. because hey if you successful and happy!

You must be rolling with Satan!

But if you are poor and unhappy you are blessed!

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DieChecker

Where do you get that idea?!?!?!?

Oh, ok, I see your point. :)

I agree.

I see your thoughts here. Thank you, and I'm like thinking, yeah, married people of two, are what I feel are the best formula. The thing is, I see that as a basic understanding of raising children, but I also feel it's in the mindset and stability of those raising the children. I often reflect on that, my thoughts on thinking married people of two are the best, but see so many different healthy mindsets and different family set ups and see healthy kids, and see so many married people of two, and basically that formula doesn't always work. I have a problem with how some people think adoption is in there, when it's still the same formula when it's in the married set of two. Hell, I have good friends that adopted their two kids, and those two kids have the healthiest and happiest childhood so far. They are great kids! Well, their parents are great parents. :yes: In my experience, I rarely see adopted kids have issues, there is one instance, but it was the individual who had their own issues. I would think that kids who are adopted would see how their parents worked hard in wanting them.

It does seem to me that a man and a woman go about raising kids differently, and kids generally need both of those viewpoints to form an understanding of the world from both male and female sides. Taking one out of the equation tends to make understanding that gender harder, and thus causes problems in just about everything in life. Or, at least that is how I see it. Opinions will vary. :yes:

I'd agree that adoption is an honorable thing. And many, many children are saved by it. And by Fostering also. But, I'm best friends with a guy who is 46 now, and was adopted, and he has raised 4 kids himself, and he's noticed that things he was able to do for his own biological kids was not necessarily done for him. There was love and affection, but even then there is still a slight barrier, in that the parents know that this child came from someone else. In my friends case, when his adoptive parents became grandparents, the affect was even more pronounced. The grandparents preferred their biological grandchildren over their adopted son's children. Maybe it is pheromones, or maybe we're genetically inclined to be like our biological parent and that rubs somewhat, I don't know. But, I've seen it in action.

My wife's sister's husband is an adopted son also. He has recently found his biological dad, and reconnected with his biological mom, both of whom were not ever even in a relationship, and found that he has more in common with both/either of them then he has with anyone in the family that adopted him. So, I don't know, there may be some genetic element to closeness and happiness within a biologically related family. (shrug..)

I am kind of on the fence with statistics, they seem sterile to me. I see statistics shown from different sources and they are always different. That is not to say I ignore them, I'm just more wavy about them. I see my experiences around me, and living on military bases tend to show more, I see how I view this directly. *shrugs*

But to an atheist, statistics is data, and data is what drives their decisions. So, when talking to skeptics, statistics are always going to come up. :yes:

Good questions. I would think both are. I mean, I'm a female, and I could be prone to mental instability.............*jumps out of a window* ............................ just kidding!!!! :D

Well, to go back to the living on military bases again, trust me, both are not immune!!!!

:tu:

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DieChecker

But evil power i mean magic, and positive thinking Master key

and law of attraction. because hey if you successful and happy!

You must be rolling with Satan!

But if you are poor and unhappy you are blessed!

One time I was talking to a pastor, and he said that all of us hold the ability to do supernatural things. Witches and magic practitioners are using God's gifts to us, and they are Saved also. They simply attribute their abilities to other entities or to skills they've developed. Using this power wrongfully is evil, and using it peacefully/benevolently is good, even if you aren't following an Abrahamic religion.

Good people will win out in the end, and the bad people will have to repent, or be punished. I recommend if given the chance to repent (after your dead) that everyone should accept that chance and be Saved. Going into the Fire for being stubborn is just stupid.

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Sherapy

Even though it costs you nothing?

I see your point; I equate praying to "it doesn't hurt to think positive." I think if it works for you to do this by the act of praying great and I can see the value for you; I am glad you shared this with me. I do this, I have created a habit of looking towards the bright side of life as a mindset. With that being said, I see no reason to impose my way onto you, especially that you now know I have an equivalent. This is the aspect of the comversation that is perplexing to me, once I share my preference, other then "this is interesting, or cool story bro," what is there to discuss or argue about? I am just asking, seeking clarity.

Edited by Sherapy
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Sherapy

Exactly, there are times anger just feels great, in the examples I gave and the ones you did does a great job of showing how anger used constructively results in conflict resolution and often preventative measures. I took my youngest (as part of a school recommended field trip) to the Museum of Tolerance there are only 3 of them in the world. http://www.museumoftolerance.com/site/c.tmL6KfNVLtH/b.9052747/k.BEE4/Home.htm

I came in with a somewhat decent grasp of tolerance, and left with a comprehensive, life changing, what it really means to be human, the good, the bad and the ugly, but most of all I learned about the passion of anger and used constructively it changes things for the better, and the idea is not that we repress our anger, or leave it to grow resentful and hostile, which only hastens it to become aggressive and harmful, but that we can use it constructively, harmlessly, altruistically. I learned that day that anger used at its highest level is altruistic in application. Of course one can repress and deny they have emotions or anger as MW has posted again and again, it is on us as posters to apply critical thinking skills to what we read, discern the credible from the credulous. All he is telling me is he was taught to repress his emotions, this is what he does, and lots of people use a coping style of only acknowledging the good they think that being spiritually in tune or godly means life must be presented as only rainbows and butterfly's, and while this is great as long as life works, and is fantastic at times, what happens when it isn't these people have high stress levels and have a hard time functioning. This was my mom's coping style, she was miserable most of the time, emotionless, she had two mental collapses that required hospitalization, she refused therapy because she just knew better, her relationships lacked in intimacy, most were ridden in conflict, she was always in dramas that generated conflict, everyone was always out to get her, and she could never talk about anything. I personally think that the constantly being involved in drama and arguments was how she vented the repressed anger. For me, life has stress, (good and bad) and terribly hard times, and things happen that bother me, and I have angry moments, happy moments, and incredibly sad ones, This is reality though and I have adopted a coping style that is adaptive, flexible, realistic to the situation at hand. I communicate my feelings if upset, or angry, happy, or sad, I take responsibility for my emotions and in doing so they are constructive in application. The aspects that are viable in MW's post is it illustrates that repressing or denying our emotions points out that in doing so it can lead to aggression and maladaptive behaviors, health issues, or like my sister an inability to function.

Adding another link it supports what you were saying about negative health effects of holding anger in.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18498056

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Leonardo

Oh, I'm very interested in what makes people "tick". That is one of the reasons I love this site. In most social settings though people very rarely talk about religion and I never initiate a religious conversation. The gay Christian friends and relatives I have were Christian before realizing they were gay. I'm more likely to ask them how their friends and the church reacted to the news. I'm more concerned about their feelings and reassuring them that I will always be there for them than prying. I don't let my curiosity trump someone else's comfort level.

Well, that's probably the difference between real-life and the virtual world on the internet. Those people you know irl are 'real' people, and you probably can't just put them on 'ignore' if you have a barney with them. Here the people aren't 'real' and it is possible to 'switch them off' in a manner of speaking.

That's part of what makes the internet a valuable social tool - it breaks through the boundaries we set in our 'real lives' and leaves us freer to explore those aspects of the human condition that we are perhaps uncomfortable exploring in the 'outside world'. It's quite possible this is having an effect in the non-virtual world also - as people become more accustomed to the 'freedom' of their internet anonymity their real-world personality changes. Perhaps part of the rise in secularity and the decline of the influence religion is having in countries/regions with a good communications infrastructure is down to this 'breaking down of social restrictions' bleeding through into the real-world.

Personally I see nothing wrong with asking tough questions and pushing people outside their comfort zones. Not all people react well to that, and I expect many aren't particularly encouraged to start thinking outside the 'box' they have packed themselves into, but enough will to make the effort worthwhile.

Edited by Leonardo
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