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XenoFish

Pointlessness of Religion

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Sherapy

And the comparison I used was Literary Studies, are you suggesting my essay on Oedipus Rex was based on faith?

PA, of course, you are correct one would not use blind faith on an essay. The nature of an essay is to argue based on the facts. In Literature, the expertise is generally other PH.Ds who are experts in their field of study. For ex: on a recent essay about, The Integration of "Christianity and Paganism in Beowulf during the Age of Bede," not one word was written in blind faith( lack of literary evidence) it was all supported: academically, historically, literarily, and there are rules for this that deem something based on sound research. All subjects have a foundation for what constitutes "factual." 8ty uses literature all the time to counter things, it's not any less credible because it is Literature as long as one understands and applies the rules.

Edited by Sherapy

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Davros of Skaro

Fundamentalism and hard atheism are not logical they are emotional.

2 Corinthians 4:4

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

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DieChecker

2 Corinthians 4:4

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Notice the little G in "god"? This is an allusion to Satan, the Enemy. He's the one blinding the unbelievers.

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SophiaStar
64707_560563324002704_764902503_n.jpg?oh=d708f020d759f8f4a947406931c47249&oe=55ADD6FF

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Starhunter

64707_560563324002704_764902503_n.jpg?oh=d708f020d759f8f4a947406931c47249&oe=55ADD6FF

One of them is nearly looking high enough, stiff necks are a bane !

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XenoFish

You will know the fruits of a religion by it's followers.

jesus_save_me_from_your_followers1.jpg

I feel the same way. And like Gandhi, I like the idea of what Jesus represented. I just don't like how the masses turned a simple concept into a bad idea.This goes for all religions in general. They became power structures. While some people need that type of social communion (which is good for them) they should (hopefully) be on guard looking for corruption. I'm not looking for proof of god's existence, could care less. I'm looking for proof that religion doesn't corrupt a person. While you might profess kindness and compassion. How quick are you to judge? How quick does that first stone come out? Am I free from such things? No I'm not, but I acknowledge them. I've even at times had a suspicion that I might be a "closet Christian" in that I follow Jesus's teaching without the religious shackles and the lack of desire to have proof of god. This could even be a possibility. I've entertained this idea a few time recently.

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SophiaStar

Agnostic, ignostic, christian..

Who cares.

To me these are but labels. I refuse to define myself.

Sometimes I see beautiful art piece and I feel this wondrous feeling like being kissed inside out.

Same thing can happen when I hear particular music or go out in the wilderness.

Heck, I am super emotional and when I was younger I got really mixed up experiencing powerful emotions that I of course thought to be nothing else than a holy spirit :blush:

I think there is a reason we have these emotions. They allow us to learn and develop as human beings.

Religion can be good framework for some, but there will always be those that can't be satisfied just one truth or set of belief.

In a way religion ultimately did set me free. I grew out of it .

Edited by SophiaStar
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Paranoid Android

You will know the fruits of a religion by it's followers.

I prefer to think of it that you will know a person by the fruits of their actions. The "fruits of a religion" is a vague comment, since there are some who use their religion for good while others end up killing in their deity's name. We can't know a religion by its followers, but we can know a follower by their actions.
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Leonardo

And the comparison I used was Literary Studies, are you suggesting my essay on Oedipus Rex was based on faith?

I think I can say with conviction that some of it was. Look back through my posts and what I said, PA. I never argued everything about such studies were faith-based, but argued that 'faith-based learning' was part of them. Then I likened that part of the study to religion because of that 'faith-based element'.

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Paranoid Android

I think I can say with conviction that some of it was. Look back through my posts and what I said, PA. I never argued everything about such studies were faith-based, but argued that 'faith-based learning' was part of them. Then I likened that part of the study to religion because of that 'faith-based element'.

In that case, I must bow out with this debate in absolute disagreement. You are free to your own views, but I cannot share them. My days at university were not "faith-based learning". I was listening to experts give expert testimony, and then weighing up all the different viewpoints they (and other sources) raised, and formalised an opinion based on those sources. Best wishes :tu:

~ Regards, PA

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Leonardo

In that case, I must bow out with this debate in absolute disagreement. You are free to your own views, but I cannot share them. My days at university were not "faith-based learning". I was listening to experts give expert testimony, and then weighing up all the different viewpoints they (and other sources) raised, and formalised an opinion based on those sources. Best wishes :tu:

~ Regards, PA

And, once again, you make something out of what I said that is very clearly not what I said. You make it seem I am talking in absolutes, when I have made it abundantly clear I am not.

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Paranoid Android

And, once again, you make something out of what I said that is very clearly not what I said. You make it seem I am talking in absolutes, when I have made it abundantly clear I am not.

Whether in part or in whole, there is no "faith" in my study, certainly no "religion". So again, I cannot agree with your views and therefore leave the discussion :tu:

~ PA

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NewAge1

I decided to turn my status update into a thread hoping to find other who are going through something similar. I'm currently agnostic. Which means I ride the fence of faith. Believing only if proof is given. Yet lately I find holding onto such a possibility to be meaningless. My morality is based around around the Christian moral code. Treat other as I wished to be treated, do good because I want to, etc. Yet the faith in their god(or any god) is not there. Even looked back on 22 years of occult practice I realize how empty I am. Nothing every presented itself as being legit that couldn't be explained away. No ghost, no demons, gods, or angels. Just figments of my imagination. Every prayer that was answer was just confirmation bias same with spell work. Just self induced jedi mind tricks. I feel there is no point in religion. There is no God. If there is a God it doesn't care about us as our fate is totally within our own hands. I'm seriously considering becoming an atheist.

Why do you need supernatural interventions or religion at all in order for an Ultimate Reality, a 'God' to exist?

What if all of physical reality (the "universe") exists within the Deity and is created by a "projective" evolutionary process that is on-going, self-evolving and ultimately co-creative in nature ?

Look at the complexity and order of nature. The sheer beauty of the World, the diversity of Life, the Big Bang, the expension of the Universe, the massive cycles of starbirth or stardeath necessery to generate the heavy elements which permit the existence of our World at all. There you will find a manifestation of the Creative Intelligence.

I too went from christianity to a sort of agnostism, exploring quite a few belief-systems until I stumbled upon the term PanenDeism online which describe very well my metaphysical beliefs. Labels can only do so much, but that's what comes closest to it. At the end of the day, though, I am still a perpetual seeker.

See: http://www.panendeism.com/Home.html

Edited by samus
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StarMountainKid
I prefer to think of it that you will know a person by the fruits of their actions. The "fruits of a religion" is a vague comment, since there are some who use their religion for good while others end up killing in their deity's name. We can't know a religion by its followers, but we can know a follower by their actions.

I think we can know a religion by its followers, as the adherents of religion always justify their bad behavior by some text in their holy book.

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Paranoid Android

I think we can know a religion by its followers, as the adherents of religion always justify their bad behavior by some text in their holy book.

Only the "bad" behaviour"? What about the good behaviour justified by the very same holy book?
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Aftermath

I'm currently agnostic. Which means I ride the fence of faith. Believing only if proof is given.

So basically you are saying you have no balls. A religious person has balls to be able to stand up by faith, with no proof. And at least an atheist has a pair - to stand up to religion and shout "you guys are morons".

If there is a God it doesn't care about us as our fate is totally within our own hands.

Well, for us Christians (can't say for any other religion) we look to John 3:16 as our proof God does care about us. You, as well as others, equate care for with no problems. We live in a sinful, fallen world, dominated by Satan - we will have issues. That doesn't reflect on God, as God sent Jesus to dominate Satan and win us back!!

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White Crane Feather

2 Corinthians 4:4

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Romans 12:3

For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

James 4:1

What causes quarrels and what causes fights among you? Is it not this, that your passions are at war within you?

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GoldenWolf

I prefer to think of it that you will know a person by the fruits of their actions. The "fruits of a religion" is a vague comment, since there are some who use their religion for good while others end up killing in their deity's name. We can't know a religion by its followers, but we can know a follower by their actions.

https://youtu.be/ZbICD-ge4rY

Also, see the link in my signature.

Edited by Mystic Crusader

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Davros of Skaro

Romans 12:3

For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

James 4:1

What causes quarrels and what causes fights among you? Is it not this, that your passions are at war within you?

Atheist vs Theist Debates - YouTube

https://m.youtube.com/user/AtheistTheistDebates

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DieChecker

You will know the fruits of a religion by it's followers.

Let's see... Barack Obama is a Christian. As is Joe Biden. As are most of the US Congressmen. ....Of both political parties.

Most Libertarians are Christian.

http://publicreligion.org/2013/11/libertariangotw/#.VSQv3vnF-Bo

Most of the biggest, most effective charities are operated, or run by Christians, even if the charity itself does not claim to be Christian...

What "good" do others do that makes them "better"?

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DieChecker

Well, for us Christians (can't say for any other religion) we look to John 3:16 as our proof God does care about us. You, as well as others, equate care for with no problems. We live in a sinful, fallen world, dominated by Satan - we will have issues. That doesn't reflect on God, as God sent Jesus to dominate Satan and win us back!!

Well, for myself, I've seen, repeatedly, several very unlikely events at different locations and times, which all seemed to coincide on timing exactly with fervent prayer. True, these things could be random good luck. But when you see "good luck" happen over and over, just when needed and just when someone prayed for it, that starts to get harder and harder to play off as random. When multiple events happen which are perhaps one in ten thousand chance, or more, each, and just when the praying person needs it... the multiplication of the odds due to each variable would indicate that the odds are close to impossible. Yet these things do seem to happen, and repeatedly. I've seen people with months to live, who received focused community prayers have spontaneous remission, and get a fiscal windfall to pay the bill. I've seen a man cured of dyslexia over a weekend, where he was basically unable to read on Friday and reading normally on Monday.

Again, I say, it is true these things could be random chance. But the odds seem long, and some force acting to tilt probabilities begins to seem a real possibility.

Faith is often built on experience, not on being stupid.

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GoldenWolf

James 4:1

What causes quarrels and what causes fights among you? Is it not this, that your passions are at war within you?

Luke 12:

51"Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division

52 for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three.…

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NewAge1
So basically you are saying you have no balls. A religious person has balls to be able to stand up by faith, with no proof. And at least an atheist has a pair - to stand up to religion and shout "you guys are morons".

I think it takes a lot more ''balls'' for one to admit he doesn't know and embrace that position, as he is not comfortable casting himself into any spiritual mold, than to follow a particular religion and it's guideline 'just in case' or rejecting that possiblity and cling to materialism.

''In matters of the intellect follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration... and do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable. That I take to be the agnostic faith, which if a man keep whole and undefiled, he shall not be ashamed to look the universe in the face, whatever the future may have in store for him.''

- Thomas Henry Huxley (1825 - 1895), Reflection #142, Aphorisms and Reflections.

Source: http://atheism.about.../a/huxley01.htm

The vast majority of people who believe in a Divine concept still have at least a grain of agnosticism in them. You can call it doubt. As much as we may believe in a theory, in a particular theology, deep down a lot us face the hard fact of not knowing. Some may be absolutely convinced, they may have personally experienced and acquired gnosis through mystical experiences but that's not the case of everyone. From a purely scientific viewpoint, it's not possible to prove or disprove the existence of a Deity either.

Edited by samus
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White Crane Feather

Atheist vs Theist Debates - YouTube

https://m.youtube.com/user/AtheistTheistDebates

Seen a lot of them. Not impressed by either side. Mostly atheists using Christianity as a straw man for theism in general, theists not accepting facts and atheists that are supposed to be scientists getting their science wrong but still claiming to base their atheism off of science. :no:

Edited by White Crane Feather

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Starhunter

Society influences the manners of the people in it, and it is not unusual that these bonds are codependent and somewhat suffocating to individualism and also freedom.

A religious society is no different, with the exception that they have isolated themselves from the rest of society.

That is not necessarily a bad thing at all, but exclusivity is usually in favor of isolation rather than connection with other people and so we end up with arrested development in the churches.

Jesus makes it clear that the gospel will put you at variance with the world, because the world prefers to remain unchallenged, as in any codependent society. They cannot cope with the vulnerability/intimacy and risks of love and prefer predictable relationships based on trivia and freedom from responsibility - no morals.

A religious society is no different, and even worse, because it sets itself up above the rest of the world - including other religions like it.

The whole intention of the gospel was to help people to identify with humanity, but refusing to participate in any exclusivity and also moral irresponsibility.

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