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XenoFish

Pointlessness of Religion

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Mr Walker

Thats right , thats what I said , why are you repeating it ... why did you feel a compelling need to compare your families funerals to mine, why do that ?

Well, of course you didnt ! It was different family ! Jeeeeeeee suz!

Okay then , your family is better at dealing with funerals and grief than mine is !

Any other judgemental comments to make on my fathers death and funeral .... Walker ?

Great ... have a sip of Xeno's drink and continue to explain how , now in even more detail, how better your family is .

Errrrmmmm .... dude that is what you are doing right now !

" Does that make my family's funerals better? A subjective answer is yes "

again, I was responding to what hammerclaw said , take it up with him,

yes, everything you say, regardless of even you admitting it might be wrong ... is actually quiet true.

I see why your wife tells you (as you said ) 'You think different to other people" ... that's one way of putting it ... a very 'charitable ' way .

Just because a person is different doesn't make them wrong. Right is not a consensus view but a measurable outcome.

Edited by Mr Walker

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Mr Walker

I am not sure what it is that you see in this post that is worthy of being applauded.

"Faith enables a human being to reach their full potential, and to become, by comparison with a non believer, a sort of superman"(MW)

I do not see evidence in this line that he reflects any of the qualities he claims to be due to his faith, he is holier than thou, that is what I see.

That could of course be a problem with your perception and bias To be honest it might relfect the side of me whcih responds to debate on UM .

First it is well known and can be demonstrated that faith and belief (in any spiritual form) add a dimension to human life and indeed give strength and abilities one might see as "super" or above normal human abilities,. The abilty to heal is just one example as is the abilty to face death with courage and calmness and to deal with loss grief and suffering in a more positive way. But of course it is easy to scoff and disbelieve.

Second i was brought up differently to you, and i think my parents instilled very different core values in me For example it is better to be honest than pretend. Respect is earned and is more valuable than friendship. Anything is possible through imagination discipline and hard work. Words help no one but actions do. A human beings first duty and responsibility is to themselves but ONLY because this strengthens their abilty to help and serve other humans. etc.

So while you might not like, appreciate or believe, that faith adds a dimension to humanity which increases our power and potential, it is true .Thousands of books have been written about it. In Christianity it is known as the power of the holy spirit, although even in this religion, that is only a part of the deal.It is real, powerful, and effective and heals and empowers the human heart mind and spirit. In doing this it also heals our bodies, because so much of our physical health is inter conncted to our mental well being.

Other beliefs and faiths express it differently Basically it is recognising a property of the human self aware mind, and consciously using that "property of mind" to improve yourself and the world around you. Consider the worlds great art, music, and architecture, and how much of the best of it is connected to the creator's /artist's spiritual awareness, and the inspiration of the spiritual dimension of the artist. . . .

Sherapy i was always a good kind and moral person due to the upbringing from my parents, but without the motivation of god i wouldn't have given away over a million dollars to people in need, I wouldn't have dared to take homeless kids into our house, and i would not have the strength, courage, power, skills and abilities i have from 4 decades of living with god to empower me to live as i do.

i would still be seeking happiness and purpose/contentment through THINGS, like people and possessions rather than realising happiness is a property of the human hearty and available to all of us any time even if you own nothing and have no one. . . In a sense i think some people dislike me BECAUSE they dislike this concept/ awreness, and they don't like being told what is good/best for them (something i tended to do even as a secular humanist. It always annoyed me how dumb and stupidly so many humans acted, when they HAD to be able to see and predict the consequences of their behaviour.

Some behaviours choices and lifestyles are measurably BETTER than other ones, using objective outcome based measurement, so no, i don't think anyone should sit back and let a fellow human being live a poorer life, when they could be helped to live a better and richer one.

We have no right to compel, except where another's lifestyle impacts on others, eg drug taking or having sex while HIV positive, but we do have a right and a duty to inform and educate. Also we have not just a right ,but a duty and an obligation as fellow humans, to render all possible physical help to people living less than optimum lives.

I think many city dwellers lose this sense as the separation from their fellow beings increases, but to me it is clear and obvious. See someone in need and you do all you can to help them. Your help will be predicated on what you see as good for them, not necessarily on what they want from you. So you might pay for shelter for a homeless man yourself (or take him in if you were brave enough ) rather than give him money for alcohol, as he asks.

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Mr Walker

I think Mr. Walker is being "tongue in cheek," but I could be mistaken. His post smacks of many a sermon that I sat through with wide-eyed wonder.... In my mind, I could hear the Amen choir. :yes: When I was a youth in church, this kind of sermon was all about putting on the "armor of God."

Ya'll Atheists, don't take this stuff personally. It's a worthy heritage for a southern belle. It helped mold me into who I am.

And then I went off to university.... :rolleyes: ... which continued to "mold" me.

And life is still a magnificent adventure!

I

Not really tongue in cheek (the super powers are super in the sense of being above or over the recognised abilities of the non spiritually aware mind and body.)

I guess it sounds like a sermon because it is a belief driven, value laden, speech from my heart and mind. I cry to see the state of individuals and of humanity; their pain, suffering, isolation loneliness, unhappiness, depression, fear, anger, lust, envy hatred bigotry etc., when it is all so unnecessary

We have the power and abilty locked within each one of us, to live in such a better way than we do now, and we even have it written down how to achieve this. Yet so many people don't even try. Their lives are so MUCH less than they could be, in every way. It is incredibly sad to see this, when you know what is possible and achievable.

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Stubbly_Dooright

Exactly, great things happen all the time, there is a thing called timing and luck. Crappy things happen too and you go on, I handle my own issues; we don't need religion, in fact, I grew up with it so did you and to compare and contrast I think for me just facing life realistically has brought me the greatest peace overall. I have not found it necessary to need to undergird a god.

I also don't think I am better off for it, everyone I know lives happy contented lives with wonderful things happening and not so wonderful things. The only poster we have who says otherwise is MW. (I call BS)

My husband and I have been through job loses ( in the early days of our marriage) broken vehicle and no money right away to get it fixed, but we got through it, we can always work fortunately for the both of us we found ways. Honestly, in retrospect looking back it was fun.

We literally took a chance with 300 dollars to our name, left most of our belongings and moved to the beach, ( our dream) neither of us had jobs, we came here (on the fact) knowing what each of us were capable of.

We both had jobs the next day, we know we can do anything. Everyone we tell that story too loves it. We bought a map and I closed my eyes and picked and this is where we ended up, and we made it happen.

It was so exciting to do what we wanted, ( it doesn't matter if life is presenting you with great things or not so great the angst is still there, it says you are alive, it's what freedom feels like to me, of course now a days we are no longer broke, we have had wonderful things happen too.

But so what my story is one of a million, no less amazing then another's, no one is going to like me better, or bow at my feet, no one cares about things like that, it's about the person you are when you are in the room that matters, not if you believe in God or not. Sheesh.

For us, having a partner by our side, wonderful kids to love and brighten our days is the greatest gift of all, and our kids adore us, for us it doesn't get any better than that. For us, It has nothing to do with God, it has been us; I am living my heaven. I just assume everyone else is too, there isn't one path that is better then another, because it's what you make of the path you are on, and we all find a way that works best for us.

This post.................... could not present it any better if I did it. This post is :tu::yes:

Everything about me is sexier *

This made me laugh out loud in the break room of my job.

But take note, I agree with you whole heartily. :yes::D

You don't need religion to have faith or hope it's free to all, you don't need spiritual faith to survive, you can prefer it, or choose it but you don't need it.

You don't need religion to have morals, although you could choose to be Relgious for reasons of morality if you want.

I don't need God to fix things, I do more than fine on my own. How do I know, it's simple, my life works for me, there isn't anything I can't figure out and with this for me comes an incredible sense of empowerment and maturity. Once I had confidence in my own competence I then outgrew/set aside the need for god, one can prefer not too ever go through life without a god and their are those that do not, it's there choice not mine. That is all Xeno is saying he is not saying one way is better then the other he is saying there are other ways and he is sharing his, he has no preference in your take away. I don't think it would work for you it requires a tough hide, which he has, you do not.

He is not pimping his path he is sharing it, that is the difference.

Here here! Everyone has everything on their own, what they need. You know, and you have shown here in this post and in many countless times. I feel I have, and I am happy to come to my conclusions on my own, as you are happy doing that for yourself. As is Xeno, Davros, 8bits, etc. etc. etc.

No one has the one to think they know better about you. Of course you know that. And expressing that, to make sure some who think they do, is what is best.

Or, in other words, to put it simply to your my friend, Sheri.

You go girl!!!

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Stubbly_Dooright

Amen, Brother Walker, as church folks say. :D Well said.

I'm sorry, robin, but I don't think so. We are all different, and how we all see things, is different. I might feel that way, but that is me, as someone who sees things and is an Atheist and is just fine as well.

I think, what would probably be a smooth road for all of us, and see how each of us deal with it, on our own, with what we have or don't have, ( and are still fine with that) and be happy for each other. I think if someone sees a fault in someone else, is probably not realizing a fault in their own world and doesn't realize it.

I don't think, God, Goddess, a higher power, really wants others to be lectured or pushed around into thinking they are nothing unless they do something someone else says. I would think, if there are such things, they would want all of us to be happy in which we have already, whether it's also includes guidance to what they themselves perceive on their own, or guidance from someone or somewhere else.

I just think lecturing doesn't help.

I do not see evidence in this line that he reflects any of the qualities he claims to be due to his faith, he is holier than thou, that is what I see.

And there's that that pretty much holds truth for me too. *shrugs*
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Sherapy

That could of course be a problem with your perception and bias To be honest it might relfect the side of me whcih responds to debate on UM .

First it is well known and can be demonstrated that faith and belief (in any spiritual form) add a dimension to human life and indeed give strength and abilities one might see as "super" or above normal human abilities,. The abilty to heal is just one example as is the abilty to face death with courage and calmness and to deal with loss grief and suffering in a more positive way. But of course it is easy to scoff and disbelieve.

Second i was brought up differently to you, and i think my parents instilled very different core values in me For example it is better to be honest than pretend. Respect is earned and is more valuable than friendship. Anything is possible through imagination discipline and hard work. Words help no one but actions do. A human beings first duty and responsibility is to themselves but ONLY because this strengthens their abilty to help and serve other humans. etc.

So while you might not like, appreciate or believe, that faith adds a dimension to humanity which increases our power and potential, it is true .Thousands of books have been written about it. In Christianity it is known as the power of the holy spirit, although even in this religion, that is only a part of the deal.It is real, powerful, and effective and heals and empowers the human heart mind and spirit. In doing this it also heals our bodies, because so much of our physical health is inter conncted to our mental well being.

Other beliefs and faiths express it differently Basically it is recognising a property of the human self aware mind, and consciously using that "property of mind" to improve yourself and the world around you. Consider the worlds great art, music, and architecture, and how much of the best of it is connected to the creator's /artist's spiritual awareness, and the inspiration of the spiritual dimension of the artist. . . .

Sherapy i was always a good kind and moral person due to the upbringing from my parents, but without the motivation of god i wouldn't have given away over a million dollars to people in need, I wouldn't have dared to take homeless kids into our house, and i would not have the strength, courage, power, skills and abilities i have from 4 decades of living with god to empower me to live as i do.

i would still be seeking happiness and purpose/contentment through THINGS, like people and possessions rather than realising happiness is a property of the human hearty and available to all of us any time even if you own nothing and have no one. . . In a sense i think some people dislike me BECAUSE they dislike this concept/ awreness, and they don't like being told what is good/best for them (something i tended to do even as a secular humanist. It always annoyed me how dumb and stupidly so many humans acted, when they HAD to be able to see and predict the consequences of their behaviour.

Some behaviours choices and lifestyles are measurably BETTER than other ones, using objective outcome based measurement, so no, i don't think anyone should sit back and let a fellow human being live a poorer life, when they could be helped to live a better and richer one.

We have no right to compel, except where another's lifestyle impacts on others, eg drug taking or having sex while HIV positive, but we do have a right and a duty to inform and educate. Also we have not just a right ,but a duty and an obligation as fellow humans, to render all possible physical help to people living less than optimum lives.

I think many city dwellers lose this sense as the separation from their fellow beings increases, but to me it is clear and obvious. See someone in need and you do all you can to help them. Your help will be predicated on what you see as good for them, not necessarily on what they want from you. So you might pay for shelter for a homeless man yourself (or take him in if you were brave enough ) rather than give him money for alcohol, as he asks.

That could of course be a problem with your perception and bias To be honest it might relfect the side of me whcih responds to debate on UM .

First it is well known and can be demonstrated that faith and belief (in any spiritual form) add a dimension to human life and indeed give strength and abilities one might see as "super" or above normal human abilities,. The abilty to heal is just one example as is the abilty to face death with courage and calmness and to deal with loss grief and suffering in a more positive way. But of course it is easy to scoff and disbelieve.

Second i was brought up differently to you, and i think my parents instilled very different core values in me For example it is better to be honest than pretend. Respect is earned and is more valuable than friendship. Anything is possible through imagination discipline and hard work. Words help no one but actions do. A human beings first duty and responsibility is to themselves but ONLY because this strengthens their abilty to help and serve other humans. etc.

So while you might not like, appreciate or believe, that faith adds a dimension to humanity which increases our power and potential, it is true .Thousands of books have been written about it. In Christianity it is known as the power of the holy spirit, although even in this religion, that is only a part of the deal.It is real, powerful, and effective and heals and empowers the human heart mind and spirit. In doing this it also heals our bodies, because so much of our physical health is inter conncted to our mental well being.

Other beliefs and faiths express it differently Basically it is recognising a property of the human self aware mind, and consciously using that "property of mind" to improve yourself and the world around you. Consider the worlds great art, music, and architecture, and how much of the best of it is connected to the creator's /artist's spiritual awareness, and the inspiration of the spiritual dimension of the artist. . . .

Sherapy i was always a good kind and moral person due to the upbringing from my parents, but without the motivation of god i wouldn't have given away over a million dollars to people in need, I wouldn't have dared to take homeless kids into our house, and i would not have the strength, courage, power, skills and abilities i have from 4 decades of living with god to empower me to live as i do.

i would still be seeking happiness and purpose/contentment through THINGS, like people and possessions rather than realising happiness is a property of the human hearty and available to all of us any time even if you own nothing and have no one. . . In a sense i think some people dislike me BECAUSE they dislike this concept/ awreness, and they don't like being told what is good/best for them (something i tended to do even as a secular humanist. It always annoyed me how dumb and stupidly so many humans acted, when they HAD to be able to see and predict the consequences of their behaviour.

Some behaviours choices and lifestyles are measurably BETTER than other ones, using objective outcome based measurement, so no, i don't think anyone should sit back and let a fellow human being live a poorer life, when they could be helped to live a better and richer one.

We have no right to compel, except where another's lifestyle impacts on others, eg drug taking or having sex while HIV positive, but we do have a right and a duty to inform and educate. Also we have not just a right ,but a duty and an obligation as fellow humans, to render all possible physical help to people living less than optimum lives.

I think many city dwellers lose this sense as the separation from their fellow beings increases, but to me it is clear and obvious. See someone in need and you do all you can to help them. Your help will be predicated on what you see as good for them, not necessarily on what they want from you. So you might pay for shelter for a homeless man yourself (or take him in if you were brave enough ) rather than give him money for alcohol, as he asks.

You are right to point it out, measurably speaking, ( and in measuring your posts) you do not demonstrate that you have mastered the qualities needed to be the kind of person who is an inspiration to me, you could be right it's your Internet personality that is the problem, and for whatever it's worth this personality comes across as dishonest, disingenuous, righteous, and condescending ( I stopped reading 'it' at "you have given away millions" on a school teachers salary"), especially when you have told us to the penny what you make and live on.

Until you get right with yourself I do not see much value in your message, for me, but thank you for sharing none the less. And, I am happy with my path, life is good to me and mine.

All the best to you, and, no need to respond I am done with this conversation.

Edited by Sherapy
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back to earth

Amen, Brother Walker, as church folks say. :D Well said.

I thought church folks also say; " Brother ! Throw away those crutches and walk ! "

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Sherapy

I'm sorry, robin, but I don't think so. We are all different, and how we all see things, is different. I might feel that way, but that is me, as someone who sees things and is an Atheist and is just fine as well.

I think, what would probably be a smooth road for all of us, and see how each of us deal with it, on our own, with what we have or don't have, ( and are still fine with that) and be happy for each other. I think if someone sees a fault in someone else, is probably not realizing a fault in their own world and doesn't realize it.

I don't think, God, Goddess, a higher power, really wants others to be lectured or pushed around into thinking they are nothing unless they do something someone else says. I would think, if there are such things, they would want all of us to be happy in which we have already, whether it's also includes guidance to what they themselves perceive on their own, or guidance from someone or somewhere else.

I just think lecturing doesn't help.

And there's that that pretty much holds truth for me too. *shrugs*

In this case, ( I don't think all religious folks are on this path) yes, yes, yes, I think this about nails it, the flaw some see in others eyes are really in their own, and that is where the work needs to be done. And I agree, I truly don't think some know the problem is them.

I have been on UM for along time and this is the typical pattern of the out of touch fixer, trying to fix everyone else, but themselves, the only one they can fix and the only one that needs the fixing.

Edited by Sherapy
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back to earth

I am not sure what it is that you see in this post that is worthy of being applauded.

"Faith enables a human being to reach their full potential, and to become, by comparison with a non believer, a sort of superman"(MW)

I do not see evidence in this line that he reflects any of the qualities he claims to be due to his faith, he is holier than thou, that is what I see.

Ah yes .... but it does work in a very roundabout Walker-logic way ; 'faith' (in himself ) enables Walker to believe he is a sort of Superman .

Even when we can see he clearly isnt . ;)

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Sherapy

I thought church folks also say; " Brother ! Throw away those crutches and walk ! "

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ROFLMAO ha ha ha ha

This made my day!

Edited by Sherapy
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back to earth

I think Mr. Walker is being "tongue in cheek," but I could be mistaken. His post smacks of many a sermon that I sat through with wide-eyed wonder.... In my mind, I could hear the Amen choir. :yes: When I was a youth in church, this kind of sermon was all about putting on the "armor of God."

Ya'll Atheists, don't take this stuff personally. It's a worthy heritage for a southern belle. It helped mold me into who I am.

And then I went off to university.... :rolleyes: ... which continued to "mold" me.

And life is still a magnificent adventure!

Amen to you ! Mouldy Sister !

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Sherapy

https://youtu.be/WxMfJL3EkLg

For you, Merry Xmas BTE!

Edited by Sherapy
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back to earth

Thanks, but coke zero and red bull (blueberry flavour) is my poison. ( Apart from milk of course :) )

What is in Aussie Coke Zero ?

Sodium cyclamate, a relatively inexpensive artificial sweetener banned by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) since 1969 and once believed to be acarcinogen, has been used in the Coca-Cola Zero versions produced in Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Venezuela, Chile, and some Central American countries. It was used for a time in Mexico, before a consumer campaign led to its removal from the drink in 2008. In June 2009 Venezuela ordered Coca-Cola to withdraw its Coca-Cola Zero product, as it contained more than the legal levels of sodium cyclamate ....

Now, you do know Australia will sell things to its populace that come from America, when it has been banned in America ?

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Stubbly_Dooright

https://youtu.be/WxMfJL3EkLg

For you, Merry Xmas BTE!

Oh my Gawd! I'm so confused!! ( I think that was the point. :P;) )

Hey, I keep getting the scene of Colin Firth's 'Kingsman' character in the small town american church stuck in my head.

No, no, :no:, that's not a scene one wants to think about. :o

Aint no way posting that vid. I think the mods would kill me. ...................... with the help of Samuel L. Jackson's character from that movie!

( Put your IPHONE down! )

Oooh! I'm so bad!!!

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Sherapy

Oh my Gawd! I'm so confused!! ( I think that was the point. :P;) )

Hey, I keep getting the scene of Colin Firth's 'Kingsman' character in the small town american church stuck in my head.

No, no, :no:, that's not a scene one wants to think about. :o

Aint no way posting that vid. I think the mods would kill me. ...................... with the help of Samuel L. Jackson's character from that movie!

( Put your IPHONE down! )

Oooh! I'm so bad!!!

What video Stubbs? I'll look it up. :)

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back to earth

What video Stubbs? I'll look it up. :)

Surely it cant beat that gospel church scene in 'Angel Heart' ?

0angelmain.png

Edited by back to earth
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Sherapy

Surely it cant beat that gospel church scene in 'Angel Heart' ?

0angelmain.png

I have not seen Angel Heart and it is playing on Netflix; I have been meaning to watch it and now I will.

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Stubbly_Dooright

What video Stubbs? I'll look it up. :)

Well, it's kind of violent. If anyone has seen 'Kingsmen' would know what I mean.

But, I sent it to you, Sheri.

But while searching this to talk about it and to show you, Sheri, I came across this scene that I thought was hilarious when first viewed.

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Sherapy

Well, it's kind of violent. If anyone has seen 'Kingsmen' would know what I mean.

But, I sent it to you, Sheri.

But while searching this to talk about it and to show you, Sheri, I came across this scene that I thought was hilarious when first viewed.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha, I'll have to watch this too!

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Stubbly_Dooright

Oooh, the wonderful gifts being given and received this Christmas is soooooooooooooooooooooo awesome! :D
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pallidin

I sometimes wonder if the point of life is to consider a "God"

Never have I met anyone that hasn't at least considered it. I have no answers, for sure, but encourage the brave quest.

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Sherapy

I sometimes wonder if the point of life is to consider a "God"

Never have I met anyone that hasn't at least considered it. I have no answers, for sure, but encourage the brave quest.

Interesting (for me) it's been to live without one, it's actually been very fun, I wouldn't encourage it though as I think the path a person walks has to be their choice, this to me is what takes courage, to let people find their own happiness and the rest of us to be happy for them.

Edited by Sherapy
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back to earth

I have not seen Angel Heart and it is playing on Netflix; I have been meaning to watch it and now I will.

Ummmmm ...... alright then :unsure2:

sweet dreams !

weirdtwists-angel-heart-590x350.jpg

AngelHeart2.jpg

Edited by back to earth
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Sherapy

I'm not taking anything personally. Honestly I could care less about what path someone walks so long as they do no harm. My issue is with those who present a self righteous attitude. Follow my path are you will forever be condemned. There are those who find the support structure of religion to be something they see as desirable. It give them something in common with other people who walk the same path. Us lone wolf types see no point in such a thing. In my case I could create a god to pow wow with if I so desired. It's not that difficult to do. Chaos Magick 101.

There have been gods before Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. There will be gods after them as well. People will always find something to believe in. Either themselves or something "external".

Xeno, you are real and it's inspiring to me.

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