aztek Posted April 10, 2015 #26 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I think Cruz and Paul are what we need. Flat tax and term limits. and that is why they'll never get the job, get "elected". no matter how many avarige joes vote for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted April 10, 2015 #27 Share Posted April 10, 2015 From the "experts" that iv listened too. They say Paul has a decent shot at winning the general election but will have a difficult time being able to win the Republican primary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted April 10, 2015 Author #28 Share Posted April 10, 2015 and that is why they'll never get the job, get "elected". no matter how many avarige joes vote for them I know shady things go on but I don't completely buy into that manchurian pre-determined winner stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted April 10, 2015 #29 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) I know shady things go on but I don't completely buy into that manchurian pre-determined winner stuff. you do realise our votes do not count when prez is elected, only electorial votes. and you do know what electorial votes are. The President and Vice President are not elected directly by the voters. Instead, they are elected by "electors" who are chosen by popular vote on a state-by-state basis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States) Edited April 10, 2015 by aztek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted April 10, 2015 Author #30 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I know that but the elections aren't rigged like Russia which is what I think you were eluding to. There are no guarantees or predetermined results here. Lots of influence and media are used to persuade as much as possible but it's not like our votes are truly meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted April 10, 2015 #31 Share Posted April 10, 2015 There are no guarantees or predetermined results here. Lots of influence and media are used to persuade as much as possible but it's not like our votes are truly meaningless. i can tell you with 99% of accuracy, that if hilary runs she will win. i'll leave 1% for unforseen events. they are not? lol, how does "are not elected directly by the voters". makes your voice weigh anything?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted April 10, 2015 #32 Share Posted April 10, 2015 you do realise our votes do not count when prez is elected, only electorial votes. and you do know what electorial votes are. The President and Vice President are not elected directly by the voters. Instead, they are elected by "electors" who are chosen by popular vote on a state-by-state basis http://en.wikipedia...._(United_States) That has nothing to do with Rand Paul or Ted Cruz in particular. It's just another way our democracy needs improvement. Why doesn't anyone want to fight for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted April 10, 2015 #33 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) That has nothing to do with Rand Paul or Ted Cruz in particular. It's just another way our democracy needs improvement. Why doesn't anyone want to fight for that? why does it not have to do with them?? are we not talking about prez run? i thought we did. good question, but i think we do not fight to improve democracy because we do not have a democracy in a first place. i see rich and powerfull get richer and more powerful and poor get poorer, and i do not see voting, or people we "vote in" do anything we want them to do. that is no way a democracy, is it? lets look at reality, usa is an oligarchy. and once you start accepting it, all the pieces start to make sense. but this is my opinion, i coube be wrong, i often am. Edited April 10, 2015 by aztek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted April 10, 2015 #34 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) you do realise our votes do not count when prez is elected, only electorial votes. and you do know what electorial votes are. The President and Vice President are not elected directly by the voters. Instead, they are elected by "electors" who are chosen by popular vote on a state-by-state basis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States) Give me one example where the electorial college has voted against the public. Edit: Actually if this website is right then it happens more then you would think http://www.fairvote.org/reforms/national-popular-vote/the-electoral-college/electoral-college-faqs/#9 though 29 states do make it illegal to vote against who you promised. This really should be all states wtf Edit edit: though from what I see the numbers are so minimal that it makes no difference Edited April 10, 2015 by spartan max2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted April 10, 2015 Author #35 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I think I read about a circumstance or two where a particular state or two's electoral vote didn't reflect the states popular vote. There was some reasoning behind it but for the most part our votes do matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted April 10, 2015 #36 Share Posted April 10, 2015 i can tell you with 99% of accuracy, that if hilary runs she will win. i'll leave 1% for unforseen events. Wow. What software are you running over there, professor? I think the Obama elections have taught Democrats just how much of a voting bloc our voters can be when 96%-99% of black people were voting for Obama in some cases. Democrats would like to try a repeat with a white female this time, and get the women to raise her to the throne as the voting bloc they've shown to be in the past. I don't think 96% of females will vote for Hillary, but 70% wouldn't surprise me. That would be enough mankind to tip the scales over in her favor. Republicans apparently aren't interested in running a female for POTUS and so we're barrelling into what's going to become a largely gender-based election. Some woman out there doesn't like Hillary now, but she's going to hear some kind of hate-filled sexist nonsense in the future about Hillary and get mad enough by that comment to be motivated to take the paid time off work and go press a button for Hillary. When the R candidate is no better than Hillary is, something stupid Rush Limbaugh said about women will be the difference maker. Careers could be ended in a pinch over saying stupid things about women. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few cases like this before the election season is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted April 10, 2015 #37 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) Give me one example where the electorial college has voted against the public. does not matter who votes, it is who counts the votes make all the difference, remember bush's last minute votes from florida where his brother was governor? would he win if it was not for them? do you actually believe they found legit uncounted votes at the last moment? lol do public votes ever compared to electorial votes for prez election?? have not seen it, may be i missed. than another question, how do you know it is real public votes? i mean there isn't a sortage of examples of gvmnt lying and cheating. Edited April 10, 2015 by aztek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted April 10, 2015 #38 Share Posted April 10, 2015 why does it not have to do with them?? are we not talking about prez run? i thought we did. good question, but i think we do not fight to improve democracy because we do not have a democracy in a first place. i see rich and powerfull get richer and more powerful and poor get poorer, and i do not see voting, or people we "vote in" do anything we want them to do. that is no way a democracy, is it? lets look at reality, usa is an oligarchy. and once you start accepting it, all the pieces start to make sense. but this is my opinion, i coube be wrong, i often am. It does have to do with them, in proportion with everyone else. It's not a basis for picking winners. It's not really a basis for denying democracy either. The Electoral doesn't mean we aren't a democracy, unless you're meaning some fantastic/purist form of it just for the purposes of denying its existence rhetorically. I would rather see the ways our government is democratic and defend those. Improve those. For the closet Wilsonian in us all, that means to lead by example and show the world the better way, and they'll emulate us. This country deserves the politicians that it gets. And when this monetary bubble that nobody cares about pops, and everyone starts caring about it, I'm going to enjoy the fruits of their untimely concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted April 10, 2015 #39 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) This country deserves the politicians that it gets. And when this monetary bubble that nobody cares about pops, and everyone starts caring about it, I'm going to enjoy the fruits of their untimely concern. here i agree with you, however i can't share your optimism, i do think democracy and fair elections are myths thou, but yes money bubble will pop, and sht will hit all fans. Edited April 10, 2015 by aztek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted April 10, 2015 #40 Share Posted April 10, 2015 here i agree with you, however i can't share your optimism, i do think democracy and fair elections are myths thou, but yes money bubble will pop, and sht will hit all fans. The imperfect state of our own affairs is no reason for the Prince of Tunisia to come over here and dictate how we run things. It's a reason to keep our noses where they belong and clean up our own mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted April 10, 2015 #41 Share Posted April 10, 2015 The imperfect state of our own affairs is no reason for the Prince of Tunisia to come over here and dictate how we run things. . are you talking about bibi? that yes i agree, can't argue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted April 10, 2015 #42 Share Posted April 10, 2015 are you talking about bibi? that yes i agree, can't argue with that. I'm talking about any hypothetical Bibi from any foreign country on principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted April 10, 2015 Author #43 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) does not matter who votes, it is who counts the votes make all the difference, remember bush's last minute votes from florida where his brother was governor? would he win if it was not for them? do you actually believe they found legit uncounted votes at the last moment? lol do public votes ever compared to electorial votes for prez election?? have not seen it, may be i missed. than another question, how do you know it is real public votes? i mean there isn't a sortage of examples of gvmnt lying and cheating. You can easily search every statistic of every past election in the countries history and see the comparisons. However we do just kind of have to take the final tally at the counters word. Yes there are shifty things about but on the whole I believe there is integrity regarding the actual vote counts. Yes I also know that obama received over 100% in some places but that doesn't mean the counters are misdoing. That only means there are multiple votes being cast in a district and is not related to the actual number of votes counted by the counters. Edited April 10, 2015 by F3SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted April 11, 2015 #44 Share Posted April 11, 2015 and that is why they'll never get the job, get "elected". no matter how many avarige joes vote for them Well...that may be the truth...because...I doubt Rand or Cruz will bus in thousands of illegals to vote for them. That is how Obama won you know...hell yes it is. DAmn straight and all that...it's indisputable...Democrats cheat...like the good Commies they all are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted April 11, 2015 #45 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Wow, this has already turned into quite the Conspiracy Theory thread.... Now we just need to get 9-11 and Area 51 into the mix. ************************************************* Perhaps the Republicans can get the "youth" vote? Rand is 52, but he probably will appeal to the Youth a LOT more then Grandma Clinton who is 67. President Obama made a lot of inroads into the Youth vote and in part that is why he won. If the R's can swing that vote their way, Paul would have a good chance. Plus Hillary is DOWN in swing states. Word from pollsters is that she's considered Untrustworthy.... a liar.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted April 11, 2015 #46 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Well...that may be the truth...because...I doubt Rand or Cruz will bus in thousands of illegals to vote for them. That is how Obama won you know...hell yes it is. DAmn straight and all that...it's indisputable...Democrats cheat...like the good Commies they all are. Democrats = Being Creative :tsu: Republicans = Cheating :cry: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted April 11, 2015 #47 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Republicans = Quantitative Easing, Stimulus, Bailouts, Czars, Wars, Government, Debt. Democrats = Heck yeah! All that Republican Horse-crap is terrific! Plus, let's add Obamacare! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted April 11, 2015 #48 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Democrats = Communists Republicans = Communist Light (socialists) American public = Screwed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degen Posted April 12, 2015 #49 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Democrats = Communists Republicans = Communist Light (socialists) American public = Screwed One day you might actually learn what communism is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted April 12, 2015 #50 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Common ownership of the means of production. Somehow taxpayers on the hook for military production is excluded for political reasons so the politicians are all communists instead. Besides, people don't commonly own anything but the bill. Isn't the debt a means of production? Isn't the national debt commonly owned by the nation? The debt is what's Communist, it's like Communism on the wrong column of the balance sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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