Sainthood bid for Titanic priest

[Still Waters]

A campaign is under way to have the Catholic priest who stayed on RMS Titanic instead of fleeing on a lifeboat made a saint.

Father Thomas Byles, of St Helen's Church, Chipping Ongar, Essex, boarded the ship at Southampton to attend his younger brother's wedding in New York.

But when it sank in 1912 he twice refused to join a lifeboat and instead remained with passengers to pray.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...-essex-32274691

[Podo]

Miracles, saints, bluh. He died doing something good, sure, but that doesn't give him supernatural powers.

[aquatus1]

I get that he did a noble thing, but to my understanding, you have to do at least two miracles to be a saint.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

Actually, according to the NT, "all" Christians are "saints" -- miracles, or no miracles accomplished, living or dead.

"To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:" (1 Corinthians 1:2)

On the other hand, Catholics have their take on Christianity; however, here's a fascinating documentary (regardless of my belief system) about the Bible:

[Grandpa Greenman]

I would be nice if they would honor him. He gave aid and comfort to those in need on to his own death.

[Rafterman]

I get that he did a noble thing, but to my understanding, you have to do at least two miracles to be a saint.

Now if he had kept the ship from sinking, then we could talk.

[freetoroam]

Hmm, sorry to say this, but is this not a prime example that praying to god is useless.

i am sure there were a few heroic men on board that ship, but out of respect for all those who died = NO ONE should be singled out as a "saint". ALL were equal!

[Likely Guy]

I get that he did a noble thing, but to my understanding, you have to do at least two miracles to be a saint.

I thought the same thing but apparently all you need is two people who prayed to him and make a miraculous recovery and bingo, he's saint material.

[DefenceMinisterMishkin]

A campaign is under way to have the Catholic priest who stayed on RMS Titanic instead of fleeing on a lifeboat made a saint.

Father Thomas Byles, of St Helen's Church, Chipping Ongar, Essex, boarded the ship at Southampton to attend his younger brother's wedding in New York.

But when it sank in 1912 he twice refused to join a lifeboat and instead remained with passengers to pray.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...-essex-32274691

Did he make it?

[Border Collie]

Did he make it?

Who didn't read the link?!!!

"His actions before perishing with 1,500 others aboard the Titanic were praised by Pope Pius X."

[Lorian_Dill]

I doubt Church would allow him to be sainted but I could be wrong.

This note from the Vatican News (I'm pretty sure there should be an english version of this page around but I can't find it)

http://www.vatican.va/news_services/press/documentazione/documents/avvenimenti/canonizzazioni-beatificazioni_nota-procedura_it.html

contained in the Apostolic Constitution, wrote by Giovanni Paolo II in 1983 says - among other things, as the many many many people that have to pratically judge every aspect of the life of the man/woman proposed to be sainted - that at least ONE miracle attributed to the person AFTER his or her death. (Point 5)

The miracle have to be approved by another commission made specifically for it. When both aspects are judged, the two documents are passed to the Pope who decides.

If it's approved the person becomes Blessed.

Once the person is Blessed (which means he can be prayed upon in a specific place) it have to happen ANOTHER miracle for him or her to be taken in consideration for being Sainted. (Point 6) When and if this happen, the cult of him/her is public and reach more people and more different places and to the blessed is given the title of Saint.

The only case in which a man/woman don't need an after-death miracle to become Blessed is if they're Martyrs, which means they actually died for their Faith.

Father Byles had probably been a great man, and surely had at least calmed some people and made them feel at peace in the worst moment ever, but I don't think that is enough for the Church to add another Saint to their list.

[DefenceMinisterMishkin]

Dude should have got on a lifeboat, or at least something that would float!

The pope praised him? Why is essentially killing yourself worthy of praise?

[jarjarbinks]

#11 he did not kill himself, he gave the gift of life to another human being so he could enjoy his life and have a family.

[Rafterman]

#11 he did not kill himself, he gave the gift of life to another human being so he could enjoy his life and have a family.

So did the band.

[Mr.United_Nations]

So did the band.

and the captain

[DieChecker]

I get that he did a noble thing, but to my understanding, you have to do at least two miracles to be a saint.

I thought there had to be at least one miracle while they were alive, but I guess I was wrong after reading up on the process.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonization

It does seem that regardless of if the person is a Martyr, he/she still needs two miracles after they are dead attributed directly to them to become a Saint. It appears there is a whole Catholic Bureaucracy involved in the several steps in the process.

[Grandpa Greenman]

and the radio guy.

[MJNYC]

Dude should have got on a lifeboat, or at least something that would float!

The pope praised him? Why is essentially killing yourself worthy of praise?

He didn't "kill himself". He stayed to comfort others that were going to die, due to lack of lifeboats.

I thought there had to be at least one miracle while they were alive, but I guess I was wrong after reading up on the process.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Canonization

It does seem that regardless of if the person is a Martyr, he/she still needs two miracles after they are dead attributed directly to them to become a Saint. It appears there is a whole Catholic Bureaucracy involved in the several steps in the process.

Yes, two miracles after death.

[freetoroam]

I thought there had to be at least one miracle while they were alive, but I guess I was wrong after reading up on the process.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Canonization

It does seem that regardless of if the person is a Martyr, he/she still needs two miracles after they are dead attributed directly to them to become a Saint. It appears there is a whole Catholic Bureaucracy involved in the several steps in the process.

How they going to get 2 miracles after they are dead? Or is it they get them when alive , but do not get recognized until after they are 6ft under....then what kind of miracles are not recognized when performed when the performer is alive?

my head hurts!

[Podo]

How they going to get 2 miracles after they are dead? Or is it they get them when alive , but do not get recognized until after they are 6ft under....then what kind of miracles are not recognized when performed when the performer is alive?

my head hurts!

As far as I understand it, someone needs to pray to them and then have some miracle happen as a direct result. However, the phrase "direct result" is, in this case, as established by the Catholic church, which we all know has a fantastic track record supporting empirically-proven situations and objectivity.

[freetoroam]

As far as I understand it, someone needs to pray to them and then have some miracle happen as a direct result. However, the phrase "direct result" is, in this case, as established by the Catholic church, which we all know has a fantastic track record supporting empirically-proven situations and objectivity.

Well the "direct result" here does not come under the "its a miracle" category here, so I can not see how this could be included in his recognition, but maybe the catholic church know something .... only they could make-up know.

[Podo]

Well the "direct result" here does not come under the "its a miracle" category here, so I can not see how this could be included in his recognition, but maybe the catholic church know something .... only they could make-up know.

They would never make stuff up for no reason when it is convenient. No sirree, never!

[Stubbly_Dooright]

Yeah, I don't know much about all the orthodoxed religions, and not until I just read into it through the link, that you have to perform two miracles to become a Saint. I don't think the father did that. But I myself would give him credit. Yes, he didn't save himself even when given the chance more than once. I often think about how he was there for those stuck and who went down with the ship. I often wonder how traumatic and terrifying that must be for them. I think, at least, he was there to atleast comfort those who believed in the same belief to be atleast in some form of peace before they died.

Hmm, sorry to say this, but is this not a prime example that praying to god is useless.

i am sure there were a few heroic men on board that ship, but out of respect for all those who died = NO ONE should be singled out as a "saint". ALL were equal!

I din't think that was the message or even think that about what the praying was for. I think those who were being helped by the Father, were being comforted atleast. I think that is probably what they were praying and for and think they may have gotten their answer.

Did he make it?

Well, no he didn't. But considering even all of the survivors are now dead, so no he didn't in that retrospect.

[jarjarbinks]

yeah

but he didnt "kill himself"

[freetoroam]

Yeah, I don't know much about all the orthodoxed religions, and not until I just read into it through the link, that you have to perform two miracles to become a Saint. I don't think the father did that. But I myself would give him credit. Yes, he didn't save himself even when given the chance more than once. I often think about how he was there for those stuck and who went down with the ship. I often wonder how traumatic and terrifying that must be for them. I think, at least, he was there to atleast comfort those who believed in the same belief to be atleast in some form of peace before they died.

I din't think that was the message or even think that about what the praying was for. I think those who were being helped by the Father, were being comforted atleast. I think that is probably what they were praying and for and think they may have gotten their answer.

A situation like that would certainly be traumatic, I actually find it quite disrespectful that because of one mans religious standing, that he would be credited for giving comfort, when in that kind of situation, you do not need to be religious to be given comfort when it is obvious you are going to die. I imagine many were comforting each other at the time.

Yes, those who were religious would have prayed, but the Father would not have had the time to "comfort" them all, others would have been doing that...hence why i can not see why one man (again) because of his religious standing, be considered for sainthood....I do not think he would have done anything different than many others who perished that night.

Edited April 13, 2015 by freetoroam