BronzeAge Hall andRoyal Burial in Spain found

[atalante]

Puzzler,

Here is an explanation for why Middle Kingdom Egypt (and/or the Minoan traders) would have made contact with this region of southeast Spain.

It was a dominant source of silver, which ancient Egyptians prized very highly.

quoting from: http://www.researchg...00/images/2.png

Edited May 23, 2015 by atalante

[The Puzzler]

Yes thanks atalante, the electrum is quite interesting too. Electra, daughter of Atlas, mother of Dardanus, which by the way, thought interesting that in Basque darda means earthquake. darda/tarta

The article that showed evidence of an earthquake in the South East Spain area circa 1550BC will have bigger implications as they do more study on it I'd say.

Edited May 25, 2015 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

This is Beaker culture but involves the trade route through to Northern Italy, from where earlier, jadeite axes had been made and sent to Britain.

The initial moves from the Tagus estuary were maritime.^[2] A southern move led to the Mediterranean where 'enclaves' were established in south-western Spain and southern France around the Golfe du Lion and into the Po valley in Italy probably via ancient western Alpine trade routes used to distribute Jadeite axes.^[2] A northern move incorporated the southern coast of Armorica with further, less well defined, contacts extending to Ireland and possibly to central southern Britain.^[2] The earliest copper production in Ireland, identified at Ross Island in the period 2400-2200 BC, was associated with early Beaker pottery.^[2][17] Here the local sulpharsenide ores were smelted to produce the first copper axes used in Britain and Ireland.^[2] The same technologies were used in the Tagus region and in the west and south of France.^[2][18] The evidence is sufficient to support the suggestion that the initial spread of Maritime Bell Beakers along the Atlantic and into the Mediterranean, using sea routes that had long been in operation, was directly associated with the quest for copper and other rare raw materials.

Basically jadeite axes went West to Britain (Over 180 axe heads made from jadeitite quarried in northern Italy in the Neolithic era have been found across the British Isles - Jadeite/Wiki.) from Northern Italy/Austria and using this same trade route later - the Beaker culture headed back East to same areas.

That was after they possibly sailed from the Tagus (Lisbon) around to Southern France then transported overland to Po Valley.

So, people from Spain knew about these trade routes into the Med. way before El Argar, which possibly used the same routes later on.

Just for fun, there seems to be no etymologically explanation for the Tagus River, my guess is it comes from tagg meaning 'branched, forked' , which is exactly what this massive river system does throughout it's long course.

Bell Beaker people took advantage of transport by sea and rivers, creating a cultural spread extending from Ireland to the Carpathian Basin and south along the Atlantic coast and along the Rhone valley to Portugal, North Africa and Sicily, even penetrating northern and central Italy.^[25] Its remains have been found in what is now Portugal, Spain, France (excluding the central massif), Great Britain and Ireland, the Low Countries, and Germany between the Elbe and Rhine, with an extension along the upper Danube into the Vienna basin (Austria), Hungary and the Czech Republic, with Mediterranean outposts on Sardinia and Sicily; there is less certain evidence for direct penetration in the east.

Beaker-type vessels remained in use longest in the British Isles; late beakers in other areas are classified as early Bronze Age (Barbed Wire Beakers in the Netherlands, Giant Beakers (Riesenbecher)). The new international trade routes opened by the Beaker people became firmly established and the culture was succeeded by a number of Bronze Age cultures, among them the Únětice culture in Central Europe, the Elp culture and Hilversum culture in the Netherlands, the Atlantic Bronze Age in the British Isles and the Atlantic coast of Europe, and by the Nordic Bronze Age, a culture of Scandinavia and northernmost Germany-Poland.

http://en.wikipedia..../Beaker_culture

Eastern Spain may have been more Basque speaking, with Basque related countries North of the El Argar areas, while the Bell Beaker culture seems to relate to an IE spread, hence darda used in Eastern Spain but IE (Tagus) dominating in Western Spain then into Southern France, as the maritime trade route took them, passing over the areas of south eastern Spain. Not until the beginnings of bronze working did El Argar rise to the occasion. I can't find an etymology for this name either but it sounds typically relative to silver/argent.

Edited May 25, 2015 by The Puzzler

[atalante]

Puzzler,

I recognize a linkage in the issues we have been discussing.

maju has connected El Argar B culture with the Aegean region. (But not El Argar A.)

This is timing is interesting. El Argar B started ca 1550 BC (i.e. after the earthquake that reorganized El Argar culture). And Poseidon inherited the seas at roughly the same time, according to Aegean/Greek myths.

Based on the biographic chronology of Greek myths (e.g. Aegean myths), the Olympian deities began arriving at the eastern side of Peloponesia around 1550 BC.

Then around 1500 BC the Olympians fought a war against the Titans; and at the end of Titanomachy, Poseidon inherited the seas, while Zeus inherited the Greek lands.

In that scenario, Poseidon could have led various "Pelasgian" people to make contact with El Argar B culture. (note: Pelasgian people could only start to be called Mycenaeans during the career of Perseus -- BECAUSE Greek myths mistakenly claimed that Perseus "founded" the city Mycenae.)

Here is a quote by maju.

quoting from: http://archive.worldhistoria.com/did-hercules-herakles-exist_topic4128_page1.html

Posted: 16-Jul-2005 at 22:12

There were two main Iberian (in the geographical sense of the word) civilizations in the early Bronze Age (pan-European chronology, it's surely Late Bronze in the Aegean). None of them was literarian but they built fortified cities/towns, that's why they call them civilizations.

· The culture of El Argar in SE Spain (Almería, Murcia) from 1800 to 1300 BCE. They had Bronze and seemingly it was a centralized state. The second phase (El Argar B , starting c. 1500 BCE, had this curious Aegean characteristic: they started burying their deceased in pythoi.

Associated with it, are the proto-Iberians (ethnically speaking now) of the Levante Bronze, also with fortified towns but of much smaller size, in Alicante and Valencia mostly.

Another contemporary Bronze area is that of Southern Portugal but though intersting, it's quite obscure and dificult to describe. The fortified towns of the earlier Chalcolithic period had vanished and not a single town is found: only burials of two types with some bronze.

· The other Iberian civilization of that period is Vila Nova de Sao Pedro (VNSP) around today's Lisbon. It existed since 2600 BCE (ending also around 1300) with many fortified towns, of which the largest is Zambujal. They never used Bronze (so I suspect rivalry with El Argar) but they were intensely connected to the Atlantic region, with Megalithic culture all the time (much before its very existence as civilization) and strong contacts with the Beaker People phenomenon (that we call Bell-shaped Beaker, as thepeople thing is not likely at all). In fact for two centuries, between 2100 and 1900 BCE, VNSP was the very center of the Beaker phenomenon (trade?!).

Near 1300, coincident with the irruption of the Urn Field culture peoples in NE Iberia (making incursions to other regions too, as isolated tombs denote), both civilizations disapear, leaving only less organized remnants.

Forget about the Balearic Islands: their Megalithic taulas are impressive but there are no remains of civilization. Instead at least one glass bead, maybe from Egypt, has been found inside Levante Bronze contexts.

To me, it seems quite clear that El Argar and other Iberians had rather intense contacts with Crete or Mycenes, at least since 1500. Though the lack of traded objects is a true puzzle.

As with the Phoenicians founding their first offshore colony precisely in Iberia (Gadir), the reason behind those possible transmediterranean relations is quite clear: Iberia had plenty of mineral resources, including scarce tin, organized civilizations to trade with and it was the gate of the Atlantic.

endquote

Edited May 25, 2015 by atalante

[atalante]

Puzzler,

Two huge river systems begin in a Natural Park, which is located at the edge of what had been the bronze-age El Argar cultural horizon.

http://www.sierrasde...id=50&Itemid=87

The Guadalquivir (= "big wadi", in Arabic language) begins here and flows southwest into the Atlantic Ocean at Cadiz. Moreover, the Segura river also begins here, but flows east into the Mediterranean Sea.

The Guadalentin (river of mud) flows into the Segura river, which was mentioned above.

One of the rivers that flows "through" the heartland of the old El Argar empire is the Guadalentin river, whose name comes from Arabic language and means "river of mud and sludge". Quoting from http://www.murcia-ex...dalentin-valley

Guadalentín Valley

Of it it has been said that it is the 'the wild river of Europe', hence the Arabs called it Wad-al-littin (river of mud and sludge), a name that refers to solid contributions from its catastrophic floods.

endquote

The Guadalentin ("river of mud and sludge") flows near the site of the 1550 BC earthquake you discovered for ending El Argar A.

Both the Guadalentin and the Segura rivers experience frequent catastrophic floods -- because their drainage area slopes precipitously.

http://www.chsegura....ia/riadas2.html

http://www.chsegura..../riadas2_1.html

http://www.chsegura..../riadas2_2.html

Edited June 1, 2015 by atalante

[The Puzzler]

Thanks atalante, interesting, I've been searching the landscape there on Google Earth for clues. I'll check it out some more. I've not been making many posts myself because yours are always so interesting they always have me off doing more research on it all.

Edited June 1, 2015 by The Puzzler