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The UK General Election - May 7th 2015


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I think the 'masses' (which includes all of us) are a lot more sussed and sophisticated now-a-days - probably because of the internet which has

gone some way to weaken the strangle hold of the main stream media - that could have it more or less all their own way, propaganda wise,

just a couple of decades ago -

.

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I was listening to coverage of the election on Irish radio this morning and they interviewed two UK business representatives who both declared their profound wish that the UK would remain within the EU because it was good for UK industry. You really don't here anyone in the know argue against this position outside of the right wing of the conservative party.

Br Cornelius

you are bound to get that kind of reporting though, very pro EU - because of Ireland's position -

I can't shake off the feeling that we are being manipulated and socially engineered into moving

steadily (and without open declaration) into a kind of United States of Europe - where we all become

a hodge podge of multiculturalism and where patriotism and national pride is looked upon as dangerous and unhelpful -

hence the constant accusations of racism if anyone goes 'off message'...

but I think all European countries want to retain and celebrate their National Identity - and don't want to

be conned and forced into a 'United States of Europe' -

There are UKIP type parties all over Europe and the lid is being kept on them because this isn't in tune

with 'the plans' (the secret plans?) for us all - that have been put into action behind the scenes, by heaven knows who...??

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Guest Br Cornelius

Non of the working class people around here want to stay in Europe, why do you think U.K.I.P. has become so popular, its because they have said we want Out of Europe and we don't want to be ruled by European Law.

The Euroseptic have done a good job of misdirecting the blame from the domestic mismanagement of the economy onto Europe is what that indicates. Notice that it is the parties most wedded to the financial services industry which are most against Europe (UKIP and Cons), who has suffered the most decline in incomes and opportunities under an economy dominated by the financial services industry - the working class.

Quite an act of magic there.

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Guest Br Cornelius

you are bound to get that kind of reporting though, very pro EU - because of Ireland's position -

I can't shake off the feeling that we are being manipulated and socially engineered into moving

steadily (and without open declaration) into a kind of United States of Europe - where we all become

a hodge podge of multiculturalism and where patriotism and national pride is looked upon as dangerous and unhelpful -

hence the constant accusations of racism if anyone goes 'off message'...

but I think all European countries want to retain and celebrate their National Identity - and don't want to

be conned and forced into a 'United States of Europe' -

There are UKIP type parties all over Europe and the lid is being kept on them because this isn't in tune

with 'the plans' (the secret plans?) for us all - that have been put into action behind the scenes, by heaven knows who...??

.

these were English Industry representatives. Its not surprising since there are very few in industry who want a withdrawl from the EU. The difficulty would have been finding a British Industry spokesperson (one who actually is involved in manufacturing) to speak against the EU.

Br Cornelius

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I'm skeptical about "national pride", that usually tends to lead to the belief that we (whichever nation "We" might be) are superior to the foreigners, and that the foreigners therefore hate us, so therefore we must arm ourselves against the foreigners. To be honest I'd be all in favour of one global government, as long it's a benign one, since that'd mean that we'd be free of party politics, which is the greatest curse of the modern age. The trouble with the EU is that it wants to be a power bloc in itself, which perhaps then mightn't be such a bad thing if it counterbalanced the United States and resisted pressure from it to do what it wanted, but all it seems to be is just a loyal satellite of the United States, like the Warsaw Pact to Moscow, and does what they want. The trouble, though, is the puppy-like devotion of British leaders to the US Government, the "Special Relationship" that they still fondly believe in, so even if we were free from involvement in EU foreign policy we'd still inevitably do what the US Government tells us to.

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I'm skeptical about "national pride", that usually tends to lead to the belief that we (whichever nation "We" might be) are superior to the foreigners,

I don't think National Pride automatically means we think we are superior to 'foreigners' -

Just that we like our own country and culture and don't want to loose it or have it taken away by

total strangers that have 'plans' for us - whether we like it or not -

and that the foreigners therefore hate us, so therefore we must arm ourselves against the foreigners. To be honest I'd be all in favour of one global government, as long it's a benign one, since that'd mean that we'd be free of party politics, which is the greatest curse of the modern age. The trouble with the EU is that it wants to be a power bloc in itself, which perhaps then mightn't be such a bad thing if it counterbalanced the United States and resisted pressure from it to do what it wanted, but all it seems to be is just a loyal satellite of the United States, like the Warsaw Pact to Moscow, and does what they want. The trouble, though, is the puppy-like devotion of British leaders to the US Government, the "Special Relationship" that they still fondly believe in, so even if we were free from involvement in EU foreign policy we'd still inevitably do what the US Government tells us to.

re underlined - mmmmm - if only we could guarantee it would be 'benign' - the human race doesn't seem to do a mixture of

POWER and BENIGN very well - and if a global government turned REAL nasty - we would be well and truly ******.

What's that saying about power and corruption....?

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely....

So as imperfect as it is - Representative Democracy is probably the best we can have at the moment..?

IMO

:)

(of course Libya had a Participatory Democracy before 'we' destroyed it....(Cameron and Hague et al) -

I think it was the only one in the world - perhaps we are too lazy to have one of those, though - and

prefer to leave the donkey work, the dirty work to someone else ...?????....then moan about them all the time :D )

.

.

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The Euroseptic have done a good job of misdirecting the blame from the domestic mismanagement of the economy onto Europe is what that indicates. Notice that it is the parties most wedded to the financial services industry which are most against Europe (UKIP and Cons), who has suffered the most decline in incomes and opportunities under an economy dominated by the financial services industry - the working class.

Quite an act of magic there.

The reason why the majority don't want the EU has nothing to do with economics (although that adds extra arguments).

Most Britons, like many other people, love their country. The majority of us don't care much for politicians who apologise for our past or claim it as immoral. We are proud of our history and what to keep our state. If things ever got so bad that we couldn't survive on our own (and they aren't) then why the EU? Why not integrate with our kind on the other side of the Atlantic instead?

Why ruin Britain because the Europeans like killing each other? At most it should just be a free trade agreement to us. No political union. Watch how many likes I get compared to you and deduce my view is a lot more popular than yours.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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I'm skeptical about "national pride", that usually tends to lead to the belief that we (whichever nation "We" might be) are superior to the foreigners, and that the foreigners therefore hate us, so therefore we must arm ourselves against the foreigners. To be honest I'd be all in favour of one global government, as long it's a benign one, since that'd mean that we'd be free of party politics, which is the greatest curse of the modern age. The trouble with the EU is that it wants to be a power bloc in itself, which perhaps then mightn't be such a bad thing if it counterbalanced the United States and resisted pressure from it to do what it wanted, but all it seems to be is just a loyal satellite of the United States, like the Warsaw Pact to Moscow, and does what they want. The trouble, though, is the puppy-like devotion of British leaders to the US Government, the "Special Relationship" that they still fondly believe in, so even if we were free from involvement in EU foreign policy we'd still inevitably do what the US Government tells us to.

We have a leadership crises.

No one steps forward with a grand vision other than the EU. In my opinion its because our Democracy is locked down by the media and negative politics so they can't.

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Why ruin Britain because the Europeans like killing each other? At most it should just be a free trade agreement to us. No political union.

Well we were kind of conned back in 1975 - when we voted to stay in the Common Market - and then it just escalated to the

situation we have now - and that vote on the Common Market was taken as a mandate to do all the political stuff - which wasn't

what the public voted for -

.

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Just a quick question: Our prime minister's husband, Stephen Kinnock, is standing for election in Wales (Labour). Does anyone know what the chances are that he is going to win the seat ?

It would be rather weird to have a married couple who are both MP's, but in two different countries.

We are going to have an election in september at the latest, so soon we will have to go through the same **** that you guys have just had to endure. :P

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Just a quick question: Our prime minister's husband, Stephen Kinnock, is standing for election in Wales (Labour). Does anyone know what the chances are that he is going to win the seat ?

It would be rather weird to have a married couple who are both MP's, but in two different countries.

We are going to have an election in september at the latest, so soon we will have to go through the same **** that you guys have just had to endure. :P

I think important seats get extra promises to make sure the figureheads get elected.

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Just a quick question: Our prime minister's husband, Stephen Kinnock, is standing for election in Wales (Labour). Does anyone know what the chances are that he is going to win the seat ?

It would be rather weird to have a married couple who are both MP's, but in two different countries.

We are going to have an election in september at the latest, so soon we will have to go through the same **** that you guys have just had to endure. :P

Stephen Kinnock? Some relation to Neil, I presume? And he's married to the prime minster of Denmark? Well, you really do learn something every day.

* Oh yes, he's his son, apparently. Well, according to the daily Mail it's a rock-solid Labour seat, so unless the fact of him being Kinnock's son puts enough people off it would seem pretty inevitable.

Edited by Norbert Dentressangle
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Stephen Kinnock? Some relation to Neil, I presume? And he's married to the prime minster of Denmark? Well, you really do learn something every day.

He is his son. So yes I would say that there is some relation.

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Guest Br Cornelius

I think many people grossly overestimate the level of anti-European feeling in the general population. All the polls so far indicate it would result in a vote to stay in.

People need to distinguish between their own personal wishes and the wishes of the nation -they are not the same thing.

Current polling figures show that 45% want to stay in and just 35% want out. The polls since 2008 clearly show that most people have incorrectly blamed the EU for the recession since 2008 and as confidence in the economy has grown so has support for the EU.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/02/24/eu-referendum-record-lead/

Nationalism is not the issue for most of the British population and singing that song will not win support for a pull out, most people are a bit more sophisticated than that.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
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I think many people grossly overestimate the level of anti-European feeling in the general population. All the polls so far indicate it would result in a vote to stay in.

People need to distinguish between their own personal wishes and the wishes of the nation -they are not the same thing.

Br Cornelius

Are you referring to the Guardian or Telegraph polls which indicate 51% would vote to leave in 2017? Or the YouGov poll? Or another poll?

If the answer is yes have you read and understood the question asked. If not lets point out it isn't do you think we should leave the EU but do you think we should leave in 2017. While the majority (just a majority) want out regardless it should be pointed out the poll doesn't establish which would vote to remain in the EU until the economic problems are over.

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I don't think National Pride automatically means we think we are superior to 'foreigners' -

Just that we like our own country and culture and don't want to loose it or have it taken away by

total strangers that have 'plans' for us - whether we like it or not -

re underlined - mmmmm - if only we could guarantee it would be 'benign' - the human race doesn't seem to do a mixture of

POWER and BENIGN very well - and if a global government turned REAL nasty - we would be well and truly ******.

What's that saying about power and corruption....?

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely....

So as imperfect as it is - Representative Democracy is probably the best we can have at the moment..?

IMO

:)

(of course Libya had a Participatory Democracy before 'we' destroyed it....(Cameron and Hague et al) -

I think it was the only one in the world - perhaps we are too lazy to have one of those, though - and

prefer to leave the donkey work, the dirty work to someone else ...?????....then moan about them all the time :D )

.

.

I agree with your comment on being superior, I don't think that we are superior to other nations, but it does strike me that we help out Europeans (more than once )yet when it comes to the crunch we are on our own ,(except for help by America) for example we got very little help when in Afghanistan from other Euro nations, the Germans sent a few non-combatant troops, the Italians sent a few which they withdrew when a couple of them were killed, the French sent some of their Foreign Legion guys ( who weren't French), very few other Euro countries offered assistance so why should we bother with them.
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I agree with your comment on being superior, I don't think that we are superior to other nations, but it does strike me that we help out Europeans (more than once )yet when it comes to the crunch we are on our own ,(except for help by America) for example we got very little help when in Afghanistan from other Euro nations, the Germans sent a few non-combatant troops, the Italians sent a few which they withdrew when a couple of them were killed, the French sent some of their Foreign Legion guys ( who weren't French), very few other Euro countries offered assistance so why should we bother with them.

Leaving up to our potential is different from being superior. Lets forge our own path forward. We are capable of being a great power without being part of the EU or USA.

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I agree with your comment on being superior, I don't think that we are superior to other nations, but it does strike me that we help out Europeans (more than once )yet when it comes to the crunch we are on our own ,(except for help by America) for example we got very little help when in Afghanistan from other Euro nations, the Germans sent a few non-combatant troops, the Italians sent a few which they withdrew when a couple of them were killed, the French sent some of their Foreign Legion guys ( who weren't French), very few other Euro countries offered assistance so why should we bother with them.

Yeah we (Denmark) did nothing, except stationing our troops in the most dangerous part of Afghanistan (Helmand province). This resulted in us taking the highest relative losses of any ISAF contingent. We did this while being part of the UK command.

We also send troops to Iraq, again under UK command.

In the 90's we had quite a few troops in ex-Yougoslavia. At this point it should be no surprise that they were stationed with the British forces.

We have F-16 fighters in Iraq bombing ISIS and we send fighters to Libya when Gadaffi was removed. We have warships fighting pirates near Somalia and lately we have also send fighters to the Baltic countries to bolster their air defences.

Its good to see that their contribution is valued so highly. :no:

----- Rant over -----

Edit: Sorry if I came across as hostile to the UK. I am not !

Edited by Noteverythingisaconspiracy
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Leaving up to our potential is different from being superior. Lets forge our own path forward. We are capable of being a great power without being part of the EU or USA.

Oh, why can't people just be content with being a prosperous and reasonably content country with a strong economy, but one that minds its own business and doesn't keep trying to be a "great power", for heaven's sake? A Sweden or Switzerland (both of which have stayed out of the NATO Alliance, and so have avoiding poking their noses into other people's business, it's worth noting)?
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*Update: well there you go then. See if you can guess who I Voted for. :santa:

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Oh, why can't people just be content with being a prosperous and reasonably content country with a strong economy, but one that minds its own business and doesn't keep trying to be a "great power", for heaven's sake? A Sweden or Switzerland (both of which have stayed out of the NATO Alliance, and so have avoiding poking their noses into other people's business, it's worth noting)?

I shall add great power that uses that power responsibly.

So that we can stand on our own and shape our own future. One way is rebuilding relationships between the Commonwealth, especially with those members that are our kind.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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*Update: well there you go then. See if you can guess who I Voted for. :santa:

well - I know you were edging towards UKIP - but maybe you swerved to the Green Party at the last minute...?

or one of the Independents..?....

edit to add - I voted UKIP.

.

Edited by bee
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Well i've taken part in my civic duty. Voted and Voted UKIP. - seems like a good turnout the local polling station is usually dead, but i had to wait in a queue first time ever. i did note pencils are still being used.

Edited by stevewinn
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Well i've taken part in my civic duty. Voted and Voted UKIP. - seems like a good turnout the local polling station is usually dead, but i had to wait in a queue first time ever. i did note pencils are still being used.

UKIP here too.

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well - I know you were edging towards UKIP - but maybe you swerved to the Green Party at the last minute...?

or one of the Independents..?....

edit to add - I voted UKIP.

.

Thats' right! I chose the slightly eccentric independent (there's always one) who goes on about the Illuminati. :santa:
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