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The UK General Election - May 7th 2015


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So people are still trying to wring some juice out of the last few sour grapes on the vine then.

Nice viticultural metaphor there, you say? Well, thank you.

Edited by Norbert Dentressangle
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Its funny the leftists try and find an exscuse to protest becasue they didnt get the result, then you have have UKIP supporters who accepted the result but are waiting for the Tories to collapse.

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That's true, I haven't seen Ukip supporters spraying obscenities on war memorials, even though, having got, what was it, 1 in 8 votes, they'd surely have every right to feel that someone has cheated somewhere.

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Throughout history whenever the burden on the poorest in society grows to great there are riots. They are usually catalysts for positive change in society and in hindsight generally take us to a better fairer society.

I predict that if Cameron follows through with his statements to cut benefits, and especially disability benefits, the country will erupt into riots every bit as serious as those which erupted at the end of Thatchers period in Government (and brought on her resignation). The whole one nation conservatism seems like hollow rhetoric in light of the punitive direction of the last five years where the poorest carried the heaviest burden and the richest got substantially richer for no other reason than the tax and policy initiative enacted by the Government. Introducing tax policies which reward the wealthiest have done nothing to grow the economy and were ideologically driven - they will be the achilles heal of the coming 5 years.

Br Cornelius

The country needs cuts to the welfare bill - because the truth is over the years its been used as an election tool, by those wanting to be elected. they promise more and more handouts, and after a great number of years these handouts all add up. - take one of the latest examples- winter fuel payments, all the people i know who get this benefit use it for Christmas presents. Now, how many other people are doing the same? but you try and take this benefit away and there will be uproar. same with any number of Benefits which should've never been offered. and enacted in the first place.

Child benefit needs scrapping for a start or at least limited to two children having children is a personal lifestyle choice. people shouldn't be expecting the state to pay for that choice.

Disability benefit, there are elements under the disability benefit that needs changing, just take for example the Motability scheme, where a person on disability benefit can get a BRAND NEW car every three years - with everything paid for tax and insurance. they surrender part - or all their disability payment towards the car. But this scheme is open to fraud how many give or have a member of their family down as the named driver? and give them the car to do as the please, and in return they give the disabled family member a few £pounds a month in return? Should the state really be paying for that? NO.

Foreign Nationals claiming benefits. No Foreign national should be able to claim any benefit without paying into the system for at least 5 years worth of contributions (paying into the "pot") same goes for the NHS, All foreign nationals will need health insurance, this insurance cover will be provided by the NHS in a newly set up NHS insurance department, thus ensuring no-one is conned, or unfair charges - and is 100% fully backed by the government, with laws passed that the money has to go directly into the NHS and CANNOT be spent elsewhere in Government.

Also - How can it be right that on job seekers allowance a registered drug user receives more in jobseeker benefit than a non-addicted jobseeker? that needs addressing. Both should be receiving the same amount. But in the case of the registered user they need to attend a clinic/treatment centre to qualify.

The list could go on and on. the message needs sending out loud and clear - No-more will you get nothing for doing nothing. if you havent paid in your entitled to NOWT/Nought -

The basic principle - there is absolutely no reason why a British person should be on the dole, when we have half a million migrants A YEAR travelling hundreds of miles and working in Britain. As a society we need to be told a few home truths. we wont like it. and it'll be unpopular, but the truth is the country is in debt to the tune of £1.4TRILLION pounds and growing and don't confuse that figure with the deficit. The Deficit is the different between what government raises in taxes and what its spends. the National Debt is separate altogether.

WE can no longer as a Nation continue to throw money away. but no government will tackle the issue because of the backlash, so they keep kicking the can down the road. at some point in the future the road will end and we'll hit a brick wall. and the socialist dream will be accomplished when we have the equal sharing of misery.

Edited by stevewinn
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That's true, I haven't seen Ukip supporters spraying obscenities on war memorials, even though, having got, what was it, 1 in 8 votes, they'd surely have every right to feel that someone has cheated somewhere.

Funny you should say that - because I just saw this -

http://vnnforum.com/...d.php?p=1839065

#Thanetrigged on Twitter -

Less than 48 hours after its leader conceded defeat, Ukip supporters have taken to Twitter to vent their frustration at their failure to capture the South Thanet seat - by declaring it was all a set-up.

Angry kippers have used the hashtag #Thanetrigged to accuse the establishment of all sorts of electoral shenanigans to get Nigel Farage out - citing the unusually long time for the votes to be counted and their success in the local elections as evidence.

Farage lost by 2,812 votes to the Conservative candidate Craig Macinklay despite the party gaining a 13 per cent vote share across the country.

But despite this failure Ukip gained overall control of Thanet council in the local election results on Friday - its first in the country.

and there is talk of ballot papers going 'missing' -

Demanding to know why ballot papers were allegedly “missing” for seven hours, Ukip voters vowed to expose the conspiracy and called for a by-election on social media:

Do they expect us to believe that so many people vote for UKIP but won't vote for the party leader in General Election? #ThanetRigged

Well the result did come VERY late ...hmmmm

Would the 'enemies' of Farage and UKIP go that far...? ......you decide :huh:

Oh and where I live there was a news report in the local paper about UKIP banners being burnt around the town by persons unknown -

the police may get involved -

.

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WE can no longer as a Nation continue to throw money away. but no government will tackle the issue because of the backlash, so they keep kicking the can down the road. at some point in the future the road will end and we'll hit a brick wall. and the socialist dream will be accomplished when we have the equal sharing of misery.

You do realize that the reason benefit cuts are needed is because bankers acted irresponsibly and caused a situation where the people had to bail them out with tax dollars, meaning austerity measures. These bankers, who fixed interest rates illegally and rigged markets have faced no consequences of their actions, while the most vulnerable bear the brunt of the hardship.

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Guest Br Cornelius

You do realize that the reason benefit cuts are needed is because bankers acted irresponsibly and caused a situation where the people had to bail them out with tax dollars, meaning austerity measures. These bankers, who fixed interest rates illegally and rigged markets have faced no consequences of their actions, while the most vulnerable bear the brunt of the hardship.

Exactly.

Not just that, the whole process of privatization which has gone on since the era of Thatcher has cost the state dearly and the whole public private partnership fiasco has burdened the state with unmanageable commitments in near perpetuity for dubious gains. Is it better for the state to borrow to open a school and pay back on those borrowings - or is it better to pay a private company up to 10 times as much over the lifetime of a contract to do the same. This is exactly the technique used by Mussolini to hide state debt by turning it into private debt, whilst ensuring that the state paid all the costs anyway.

There are two types of welfare, one is for those who don't get to define public policy (the poor) and the other is for those companies with ties to government who get lucrative and inflated Public contracts. The conservatives have done nothing about the latter but have victimized the former.

There is plenty of wastage in the economy, and most of it isn't in the bill to keep people healthy, adults out of starvation poverty and children out of abject poverty.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
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You do realize that the reason benefit cuts are needed is because bankers acted irresponsibly and caused a situation where the people had to bail them out with tax dollars, meaning austerity measures. These bankers, who fixed interest rates illegally and rigged markets have faced no consequences of their actions, while the most vulnerable bear the brunt of the hardship.

Lets not pretend its all the fault of the Bankers either. The Benefit liability has been growing in this country long, - long before the 2008 banking crisis. all the banking crisis of 2008 done was bring to attention the situation of the welfare bill/spending. - making it impossible for the sitting government to simply ignore it. like successive governments have over the decades.

You only have to conduct an audit on here, how many would agree the benefit bill needs cutting? very, very few. their will be members on here who are receiving benefit and don't want to entertain the thought of reforming the benefit system in fear of losing their benefit. 25% of government spending goes on benefits, which includes pensions. Something needs doing because as this moment in time income receipts from every single working person IE the tax they pay is not enough to cover the outgoings on welfare. its staggering 28 million people paying tax /or their company and that doesn't even cover the bill.

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A relevant fragment from BBC Question Time..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXKQ6eeyhhU

Both (Brand & Farrage) are correct. Adding that focussing on the immigrants - who have been (consciously) flooded into the resp European countries undermining local culture and general social cohesion - and not on the structural all encompassing corruption prevalent throughout the establishment is exactly what is intended. At the end of the day, both issues arise from thesame source. Being your deceitful crony capitalist government, and the hand that feeds them (which is, ofcourse, 'The City'). They would like nothing better than for both these groups ('natives' and 'immigrants') to focus on eachother, instead of the real source of the present situation.

Edited by Phaeton80
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Guest Br Cornelius

Lets not pretend its all the fault of the Bankers either. The Benefit liability has been growing in this country long, - long before the 2008 banking crisis. all the banking crisis of 2008 done was bring to attention the situation of the welfare bill/spending. - making it impossible for the sitting government to simply ignore it. like successive governments have over the decades.

You only have to conduct an audit on here, how many would agree the benefit bill needs cutting? very, very few. their will be members on here who are receiving benefit and don't want to entertain the thought of reforming the benefit system in fear of losing their benefit. 25% of government spending goes on benefits, which includes pensions. Something needs doing because as this moment in time income receipts from every single working person IE the tax they pay is not enough to cover the outgoings on welfare. its staggering 28 million people paying tax /or their company and that doesn't even cover the bill.

The reality is that within the British economy real levels of viable employment have severely contracted due to various decisions made by successive governments and the general shift in industry away from labour towards technology. The jobs that have replaced them are simply not enough for many families to live on and as a consequence more people have been shunted into the welfare system. If you want to address the benefits bill you need to acknowledge and address these fundamental structural issues. My belief is that the very concept of full employment is an outmoded anachronism which can no longer be sustained. Holding onto it and then forcing those who are its victims into unlivable jobs is not an answer.

What is the answer ? I don't know and I am damn certain that neither do you Steve.

Br Cornelius

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The country needs cuts to the welfare bill - because the truth is over the years its been used as an election tool, by those wanting to be elected. they promise more and more handouts, and after a great number of years these handouts all add up. - take one of the latest examples- winter fuel payments, all the people i know who get this benefit use it for Christmas presents. Now, how many other people are doing the same? but you try and take this benefit away and there will be uproar. same with any number of Benefits which should've never been offered. and enacted in the first place.

The question you need to ask yourself, and it's a problem I often find myself up against, Is the risk of losing/wasting money worth saving a life. Sure 9 out of every 10 old dears may use the money to buy their middle class families a nice present, but, is that worth the 1 in that 10 not dying or suffering ill health that winter? The main problem is, you cannot know the lives that are saved because it never gets that far.

Child benefit needs scrapping for a start or at least limited to two children having children is a personal lifestyle choice. people shouldn't be expecting the state to pay for that choice.

I would suggest that to most people pro-creation may go a wee bit deeper than being a 'Lifestyle choice'. As a new father I can honestly say I have not become a parent because my kid looks great in my wife's handbag. I can live without the child benefit to be honest, but It is being paid into bonds for my daughter for when she is older, hopefully with the right guidance in her life she will do something amazing with it.

Disability benefit, there are elements under the disability benefit that needs changing, just take for example the Motability scheme, where a person on disability benefit can get a BRAND NEW car every three years - with everything paid for tax and insurance. they surrender part - or all their disability payment towards the car. But this scheme is open to fraud how many give or have a member of their family down as the named driver? and give them the car to do as the please, and in return they give the disabled family member a few £pounds a month in return? Should the state really be paying for that? NO.

Agreed here. I have an uncle who has a motability car, he is a miserable ex-con who has no endearing features at all and sits on his **** all day moaning looking at his nice shiny new Ford Focus. While I work my ass off driving my 14 year old banger, because my money is needed elsewhere. Scrapping this is fine, if anything it will force the family of anyone who really needs transport to start looking after their own. In that respect I think things could be a lot better.

Foreign Nationals claiming benefits. No Foreign national should be able to claim any benefit without paying into the system for at least 5 years worth of contributions (paying into the "pot") same goes for the NHS, All foreign nationals will need health insurance, this insurance cover will be provided by the NHS in a newly set up NHS insurance department, thus ensuring no-one is conned, or unfair charges - and is 100% fully backed by the government, with laws passed that the money has to go directly into the NHS and CANNOT be spent elsewhere in Government.

I agree partly, in elective surgery certainly their needs to be scrutiny on who is eligible. However I do not think that any discerning citizen, concerned for their fellow man would/should withhold lifesaving or necessary treatment. I have said it before, we still live within a welfare state. The welfare state has certain values attached to this, which aren't complicated, they go something like 'I care for and will look after my fellow human'. I think we need to get back in touch with this and stop being so damned greedy. And yes the majority of nay sayers are the ones who are able to live comfortably.

Also - How can it be right that on job seekers allowance a registered drug user receives more in jobseeker benefit than a non-addicted jobseeker? that needs addressing. Both should be receiving the same amount. But in the case of the registered user they need to attend a clinic/treatment centre to qualify.

This I believe would be looked at on a case by case basis, want to have a debate about the reasons why the majority of dependant drug users are A: very vulnerable and B: addicted in the first place?

The list could go on and on. the message needs sending out loud and clear - No-more will you get nothing for doing nothing. if you havent paid in your entitled to NOWT/Nought -

Oh well that's ruined my Christmas then.

The basic principle - there is absolutely no reason why a British person should be on the dole, when we have half a million migrants A YEAR travelling hundreds of miles and working in Britain. As a society we need to be told a few home truths. we wont like it. and it'll be unpopular, but the truth is the country is in debt to the tune of £1.4TRILLION pounds and growing and don't confuse that figure with the deficit. The Deficit is the different between what government raises in taxes and what its spends. the National Debt is separate altogether.

WE can no longer as a Nation continue to throw money away. but no government will tackle the issue because of the backlash, so they keep kicking the can down the road. at some point in the future the road will end and we'll hit a brick wall. and the socialist dream will be accomplished when we have the equal sharing of misery.

Reform is needed desperately in my opinion, the whole system is crap and party politics is severely flawed, the economic model is the biggest problem though. We will always be in debt, because the banks make their money from government borrowing, and as we have seen, the banks will not be allowed to fail, it's a vicious circle.

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The reality is that within the British economy real levels of viable employment have severely contracted due to various decisions made by successive governments and the general shift in industry away from labour towards technology. The jobs that have replaced them are simply not enough for many families to live on and as a consequence more people have been shunted into the welfare system. If you want to address the benefits bill you need to acknowledge and address these fundamental structural issues. My belief is that the very concept of full employment is an outmoded anachronism which can no longer be sustained. Holding onto it and then forcing those who are its victims into unlivable jobs is not an answer.

What is the answer ? I don't know and I am damn certain that neither do you Steve.

Br Cornelius

I agree with you, Manufacturing in the UK has been neglected by Governments of all colours over the years. but is this not in response to supply and demand by the Great British public? We all want goods and commodities - but we want them cheap. We'd rather save or not spend £2 pounds on a item manufactured in the UK and put a British person on benefits, than spend that extra £2 pound and keep a British person in a Job, Its this mentality which has seen production and manufacturing not only from the UK, but Europe and the USA move to China. We'd rather keep the Chinese in a job than our own people and in the process we are weakling ourselves and making China stronger.

The way we move forward is by offering incentives to manufacturers to set up shop here in the UK. its yet again one of them situations were we have to play to our strengths and advantages. with a population of 63million we can be light on our feet and adapt. we need to offer low corporation and business taxes from the top to the bottom. we need to build Nuclear power stations, and invest heavy in renewable energy so we can offer a low energy cost manufacturing base while concentrating on the high end skilled jobs and sectors we currently have.

That's why i propose a percentage of the £19.2Billion (annually) we'd save not being in political Union with the EU. could be spent on big capital projects here in the UK. offering high skilled jobs and apprenticeships for decades to come. improving infrastructure and slashing the cost and the ease of doing business in the UK, including the transport of goods and services. the way forward is small economic units, flexible to world changes and not inflexible units like China which is inherently inflexible due to it's size. and you can include the EU in this bracket. they are the advantages we have so lets use them. We are the Nation which gave birth to industrial revolution, the ability to do something similar exists today.

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Guest Br Cornelius

I agree with you, Manufacturing in the UK has been neglected by Governments of all colours over the years. but is this not in response to supply and demand by the Great British public? We all want goods and commodities - but we want them cheap. We'd rather save or not spend £2 pounds on a item manufactured in the UK and put a British person on benefits, than spend that extra £2 pound and keep a British person in a Job, Its this mentality which has seen production and manufacturing not only from the UK, but Europe and the USA move to China. We'd rather keep the Chinese in a job than our own people and in the process we are weakling ourselves and making China stronger.

The way we move forward is by offering incentives to manufacturers to set up shop here in the UK. its yet again one of them situations were we have to play to our strengths and advantages. with a population of 63million we can be light on our feet and adapt. we need to offer low corporation and business taxes from the top to the bottom. we need to build Nuclear power stations, and invest heavy in renewable energy so we can offer a low energy cost manufacturing base while concentrating on the high end skilled jobs and sectors we currently have.

That's why i propose a percentage of the £19.2Billion (annually) we'd save not being in political Union with the EU. could be spent on big capital projects here in the UK. offering high skilled jobs and apprenticeships for decades to come. improving infrastructure and slashing the cost and the ease of doing business in the UK, including the transport of goods and services. the way forward is small economic units, flexible to world changes and not inflexible units like China which is inherently inflexible due to it's size. and you can include the EU in this bracket. they are the advantages we have so lets use them. We are the Nation which gave birth to industrial revolution, the ability to do something similar exists today.

The reality is that 1 person can do the jobs of 10-100 people. That makes 9-99 people redundant and no amount of creativity will bring them all back into the labour market. That one person is going to need at least 1 and probably two degrees and a period of internship and then 4-5 years of very specific experience. In the modern world, with degrees running at £10-20K per year that means that only the wealthy middle class will be getting those jobs in the future. This will inevitably lead to an even greater stratification between the rich and th poor - and low and behold that is precisely what is happening. Class based stratification is increasing year on year leading to massive (and I mean massive) loss to the economy in talented but poor people been held back.

The country has significant endemic structural problems which go hand in hand with NeoLiberal economic theory and it is going to cause significant social strife as more and more people become generation-ally impoverished simply because they were born not to rich parents. This is a downward spiral which Britain cannot live with long term - and which the Conservative government has absolutely no solutions to since they were the primary cause.

As I have said - i predict with almost total certainty that this Government will end its period in office with widespread inner city riots the like of which we have not seen since the late 1990's.

Br Cornelius

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Talkign about Unions, what about these trade unions? what have they done to the economy? they got very bad votes

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I agree with you, Manufacturing in the UK has been neglected by Governments of all colours over the years. but is this not in response to supply and demand by the Great British public? We all want goods and commodities - but we want them cheap. We'd rather save or not spend £2 pounds on a item manufactured in the UK and put a British person on benefits, than spend that extra £2 pound and keep a British person in a Job, Its this mentality which has seen production and manufacturing not only from the UK, but Europe and the USA move to China. We'd rather keep the Chinese in a job than our own people and in the process we are weakling ourselves and making China stronger.

The way we move forward is by offering incentives to manufacturers to set up shop here in the UK. its yet again one of them situations were we have to play to our strengths and advantages. with a population of 63million we can be light on our feet and adapt. we need to offer low corporation and business taxes from the top to the bottom. we need to build Nuclear power stations, and invest heavy in renewable energy so we can offer a low energy cost manufacturing base while concentrating on the high end skilled jobs and sectors we currently have.

That's why i propose a percentage of the £19.2Billion (annually) we'd save not being in political Union with the EU. could be spent on big capital projects here in the UK. offering high skilled jobs and apprenticeships for decades to come. improving infrastructure and slashing the cost and the ease of doing business in the UK, including the transport of goods and services. the way forward is small economic units, flexible to world changes and not inflexible units like China which is inherently inflexible due to it's size. and you can include the EU in this bracket. they are the advantages we have so lets use them. We are the Nation which gave birth to industrial revolution, the ability to do something similar exists today.

How can we build nucelar power stations when people like the Green party oppose them? Then you watn to build solar panel farms, wind turbines and wave technology, yet when they are plans to build them, people oppose them espicallly people like the rich who say it ruins the landscape, which it does in somecases, but actually makes house prices change dramatically.

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The reality is that 1 person can do the jobs of 10-100 people. That makes 9-99 people redundant and no amount of creativity will bring them all back into the labour market. That one person is going to need at least 1 and probably two degrees and a period of internship and then 4-5 years of very specific experience. In the modern world, with degrees running at £10-20K per year that means that only the wealthy middle class will be getting those jobs in the future. This will inevitably lead to an even greater stratification between the rich and th poor - and low and behold that is precisely what is happening. Class based stratification is increasing year on year leading to massive (and I mean massive) loss to the economy in talented but poor people been held back.

The country has significant endemic structural problems which go hand in hand with NeoLiberal economic theory and it is going to cause significant social strife as more and more people become generation-ally impoverished simply because they were born not to rich parents. This is a downward spiral which Britain cannot live with long term - and which the Conservative government has absolutely no solutions to since they were the primary cause.

As I have said - i predict with almost total certainty that this Government will end its period in office with widespread inner city riots the like of which we have not seen since the late 1990's.

Br Cornelius

Britain competes in the global economy earning about £300 billion in corporate tax every year from mining, petrochemicals and financial services. To switch to a manufacturing led economy we must either be able to establish a cost advantage (this is impossible at the moment because East Asian countries are cheaper) or a technological advantage (the USA, Germany and Japan already dominate this). To restructure our economy into a high-tech manufacturing one is no easy process. Look at Intel for example. Its current technological dominance is built upon decades of research and development. To enter into one of these industries would take a lot of investment by the British Government and time to catch up.

If we leave the EU we can practice economic protectionism where we create a car manufacturing industry (as an example) and then protect it from foreign imports using trade barriers. Will the British public be happy buying consumer electronics, cars and other items that are 10 years behind until we've caught up?

The only other way forward is to innovate creating new products no one has thought of before. That we are actually surprisingly good at here in the UK but the problem is we keep selling our achievements to foreign investors.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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This thread has turned into a lengthy argument about politics.

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Guest Br Cornelius

If we don't talk about the consequences of the decisions we make then what is the point of talking at all Norbert.

Br Cornelius

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Well, some good news anyway, apparently the Party has rejected ol' Nige F's offer of resignation, so he can continue to entertain the media. (and really annoy the Guardian, which is even better.)

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Well yes, sometimes though, people base their opinions on actual facts. And given your no doubt downright unpleasant experiences with traitors like Blair and Brown, I thought I missed something regarding Galloway (whose statements I very often agree with - in stark contradictions with the usual suspects). Then again, maybe I have some latent traitereous inclinations I need to come to terms with. Oh well..

Firstly thank you for allowing me to have an opinion albeit with conditions, I didn't know I had any "no doubt downright unpleasant experiences with traitors like Blair and Brown" but I will concede Blair at least is considered highly as a traitor and when the level is set so high not many people will come close so fully understand why you introduced him at least into this...I am not a supporter of Galloway or his statement or what he stands for which can be found in numerous places on the internet for people to judge for themselves, so I guess that's where we find ourselves you and your support for Galloway and me without I think its best left there.

btw whatever you need to come to terms with is your business

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Have enjoyed the claims that it's not the fault of the parties that they lost, but it's the fault of those misleading opinion polls. Well, that and the fact the public are damned ungrateful and don't know how to vote properly...!

Another thought to ponder in regards to the polling question.

So, we've seen that the opinion polls taken in the run up to the ballot were slightly not right, if not wide of the mark in relation to how large support for the Tories was. This could mean that all the main parties may use this as an excuse to ignore any polling data - or instead use such data to ram road their polices through. Example, we're promised a referendum on our membership of the EU. So if polls are done saying we as the public want out, the pro EU supporters can say that since the polls were wrong during the election, this means they could ignore that data. And in the same manner, if polls are done saying we want to remain in, then the anti lot can claim those polls are wrong, and you see how it could go.

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Opinion polls are a powerful weapon in the whole process, comparable to rating agencies in the financial world. Control either and one will have considerable control concerning the '(perception of) valuation' of commercial or political entities.

I vehemently dislike and distrust both.

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Talkign about Unions, what about these trade unions? what have they done to the economy? they got very bad votes

What? Trade Unions are trade unions not political parties.

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The country needs cuts to the welfare bill - because the truth is over the years its been used as an election tool, by those wanting to be elected. they promise more and more handouts, and after a great number of years these handouts all add up. - take one of the latest examples- winter fuel payments, all the people i know who get this benefit use it for Christmas presents. Now, how many other people are doing the same? but you try and take this benefit away and there will be uproar. same with any number of Benefits which should've never been offered. and enacted in the first place.

Child benefit needs scrapping for a start or at least limited to two children having children is a personal lifestyle choice. people shouldn't be expecting the state to pay for that choice.

Disability benefit, there are elements under the disability benefit that needs changing, just take for example the Motability scheme, where a person on disability benefit can get a BRAND NEW car every three years - with everything paid for tax and insurance. they surrender part - or all their disability payment towards the car. But this scheme is open to fraud how many give or have a member of their family down as the named driver? and give them the car to do as the please, and in return they give the disabled family member a few £pounds a month in return? Should the state really be paying for that? NO.

Foreign Nationals claiming benefits. No Foreign national should be able to claim any benefit without paying into the system for at least 5 years worth of contributions (paying into the "pot") same goes for the NHS, All foreign nationals will need health insurance, this insurance cover will be provided by the NHS in a newly set up NHS insurance department, thus ensuring no-one is conned, or unfair charges - and is 100% fully backed by the government, with laws passed that the money has to go directly into the NHS and CANNOT be spent elsewhere in Government.

Also - How can it be right that on job seekers allowance a registered drug user receives more in jobseeker benefit than a non-addicted jobseeker? that needs addressing. Both should be receiving the same amount. But in the case of the registered user they need to attend a clinic/treatment centre to qualify.

The list could go on and on. the message needs sending out loud and clear - No-more will you get nothing for doing nothing. if you havent paid in your entitled to NOWT/Nought -

The basic principle - there is absolutely no reason why a British person should be on the dole, when we have half a million migrants A YEAR travelling hundreds of miles and working in Britain. As a society we need to be told a few home truths. we wont like it. and it'll be unpopular, but the truth is the country is in debt to the tune of £1.4TRILLION pounds and growing and don't confuse that figure with the deficit. The Deficit is the different between what government raises in taxes and what its spends. the National Debt is separate altogether.

WE can no longer as a Nation continue to throw money away. but no government will tackle the issue because of the backlash, so they keep kicking the can down the road. at some point in the future the road will end and we'll hit a brick wall. and the socialist dream will be accomplished when we have the equal sharing of misery.

Hi Steve, Disability Benefit..go easy mate, my wife and I are both pensioners, with my wife being 90% disabled through Multiple Sclerosis, If it wasn't for the Motability scheme (which is a Charity) I couldn't afford a decent car, but would have an old banger, We pay £200.00 per month to Motability so its not Free,and it has to be in Wifes name,so I am a named driver,if anything happens to her they take the car back, leaving me with nothing..If we didn't have this scheme she wouldn't be able to leave the house unless we got a taxi .I do all the shopping and the shops are a mile away and I am also partially disabled and can't walk very far so if we didn't have the car we would have to rely on Social Services which costs over £8.00 per hour (when they decide to turn up) so I don't use them. I Never use the Disabled Parking spaces when I'm shopping,as the town is full of Disabled persons worse than me. The State pays me Nothing as a full time Carer 24/7 as once you get a pension Carer Benefit Stops, So Don't knock it Bro, as you may be in the same circumstances one day, which I Hope Not.Cheers S.T,M.. Edited by spud the mackem
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Hi Steve, Disability Benefit..go easy mate, my wife and I are both pensioners, with my wife being 90% disabled through Multiple Sclerosis, If it wasn't for the Motability scheme (which is a Charity) I couldn't afford a decent car, but would have an old banger, We pay £200.00 per month to Motability so its not Free,and it has to be in Wifes name,so I am a named driver,if anything happens to her they take the car back, leaving me with nothing..If we didn't have this scheme she wouldn't be able to leave the house unless we got a taxi .I do all the shopping and the shops are a mile away and I am also partially disabled and can't walk very far so if we didn't have the car we would have to rely on Social Services which costs over £8.00 per hour (when they decide to turn up) so I don't use them. I Never use the Disabled Parking spaces when I'm shopping,as the town is full of Disabled persons worse than me. The State pays me Nothing as a full time Carer 24/7 as once you get a pension Carer Benefit Stops, So Don't knock it Bro, as you may be in the same circumstances one day, which I Hope Not.Cheers S.T,M..

Well said sir. There seems to be an interesting phenomenon where usually very social people get massaged into some sort of 'creditor' mode, in where they think it wise to point their fingers at 'those who do not carry their own weight', against those that are profiting from 'my/our money'.. They turn into somesort of bank mindset, the very behaviour they lament themselves when dealing with large banks in regards to morgage issues. Suddenly all forms of empathy (they themselves expect when they are in a creditor position) fly out the window when they perceive it as 'their money' which is being 'squandered'.

A similar phenomena can be seen in Greek context, where it is socially acceptable - even popular - to label 'the Greek' as some lazy good for nothing leech upon the rest of the EU nations.. Projecting the given, or forced loans as some sort of charity instead of the burden - loansharkish sort of deals they in fact are. The EU as one brotherly Union where are nations are equal.. seriously.. With 'friends' like the Trojka, one doesnt need enemies. And we all know; if a House be divided against Itself, that House cannot stand.

This goes for the EU, as well as the individual societies that comprise it. A House divided cannot stand against 'a master of that House' gone rogue, which is exactly why these sentiments - creating division - are invoked.

Anyway, I find this to be a very interesting social phenomenon, apologies for the sidestep.

Edited by Phaeton80
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