How Religion Harms Education

[Grandpa Greenman]

When Christians tried to block a Pagan festival, some Pagans got a stamp and passed these around the town. The festival was saved.

I think in God We Trust on the money truly reflects the US mindset of the political fundamentalist who fight to destroy our secular nation for a theocracy. Deep down money is their God.

Motto should really be in greenbacks we trust.

[eight bits]

a1

Not familiar.

Precisely.

Stubbly

The thing about the La school situation is, despite understanding with the shared group mind there, there must be some closet Atheists there who are afraid to speak up.

Well, that the motto says In God We Trust does accomplish one thing - it reminds, or should remind, American atheist activists that the United States is not a secular society. France is, and that's fine, and so the French do have "Freedom from religion." Americans do not have freedom from other people's expression of their religious views, they have a freedom that government involvement with that expression will occur subject to many constraints, not that it won't occur at all and not even that the government won't be involved somehow.

The Fourteenth Amendment (which extends most federal constitutional limitations on trimming personal rights to the state and local governments) doesn't further limit Congress' powers in this area beyond the other amendments and the main enumeration of congessional powers.

That's a lot of power, including a lot of propaganda power: what's on the money, what's on postage stamps, how religion is treated in the military (a great source of discomfort for unbelieving personnel, I hear) and I don't know about your passport (the design changes), but mine is full of religious quotes from famous Americans.

"In a free society, you have to put up with a lot." Not a bad lesson, IMO.

GmG

Well, we all know that the motto is shortened from "In God we trust, all others pay cash."

[Rafterman]

Perhaps the video and/or thread should more appropriately be titled "how creationism in the southern US harms some/many Americans' education"?

If only it were so limited. Unfortunately, believe it or not, the State of Texas drives much of what is in US public school textbooks nationwide. Why, you ask? Because they are one of the largest buyers of textbooks and the companies cater to them. So when the Texas Board of Education approves a curriculum change that's pro-Republican, pro-creationism, pro-religion, anti-evolution, etc. etc. kids in other parts of the country end up with those same textbooks.

http://www.nytimes.c...texas.html?_r=0

Fortunately this influence has begun to wain a bit due to the ability to customize textbooks more easily. But since states tend to use textbooks for years, it will take a while to solve the issue.

[Rafterman]

When Christians tried to block a Pagan festival, some Pagans got a stamp and passed these around the town. The festival was saved.

I think in God We Trust on the money truly reflects the US mindset of the political fundamentalist who fight to destroy our secular nation for a theocracy. Deep down money is their God.

Motto should really be in greenbacks we trust.

The idea that christians would try to block a pagan festival is somewhat ironic, isn't it?

[Bavarian Raven]

In Canada, religion is kept out of schools entirely. We're taught that it exists, but that's basically it. No prayer or religious texts are allowed in schools for any reason, period. The most religion is interacted with is as a subject of history in history classrooms, but only ever in a historical or academic sense.

Private Schools will sometimes have a chapel and religious classes, but they're private and can do what they want.

I'm Canadian. We spent two weeks in social studies studying religions. We went to various churches, Buddhist temples, a mosque and a Sikh temple. It was fun/interesting. I only wish there had been a pagan temple around to visit.

Eitherway, it was worth having in school

[Podo]

I'm Canadian. We spent two weeks in social studies studying religions. We went to various churches, Buddhist temples, a mosque and a Sikh temple. It was fun/interesting. I only wish there had been a pagan temple around to visit.

Eitherway, it was worth having in school

I'm surprised that was aloud, considering it appears we were educated in the same province. Religion was avoided like the plague in anything but a historical sense when I was going through highschool. But, it probably depends on when you went to school, as well as where.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

When Christians tried to block a Pagan festival, some Pagans got a stamp and passed these around the town. The festival was saved.

I think in God We Trust on the money truly reflects the US mindset of the political fundamentalist who fight to destroy our secular nation for a theocracy. Deep down money is their God.

Motto should really be in greenbacks we trust.

Wasn't the formation of the United States, ( I'm keeping in mind how this was a nation belonging to people before that) wasn't it formed for the reason to run from one religion only countries? And yet, now in this day, it seems to repeat what was happening in other places. Do these who practice this hippocracy even know their country's history? This really gets me.

Stubbly

Well, that the motto says In God We Trust does accomplish one thing - it reminds, or should remind, American atheist activists that the United States is not a secular society. France is, and that's fine, and so the French do have "Freedom from religion." Americans do not have freedom from other people's expression of their religious views, they have a freedom that government involvement with that expression will occur subject to many constraints, not that it won't occur at all and not even that the government won't be involved somehow.

The Fourteenth Amendment (which extends most federal constitutional limitations on trimming personal rights to the state and local governments) doesn't further limit Congress' powers in this area beyond the other amendments and the main enumeration of congessional powers.

That's a lot of power, including a lot of propaganda power: what's on the money, what's on postage stamps, how religion is treated in the military (a great source of discomfort for unbelieving personnel, I hear) and I don't know about your passport (the design changes), but mine is full of religious quotes from famous Americans.

"In a free society, you have to put up with a lot." Not a bad lesson, IMO.

I just checked out my passport from 2007 and I'm not seeing that. Anyhow...........

I see your point. I did some researching..............googling........... and that is true, we are free to worship and not worship what we like. And yes, we are not free to escape various forms of other religious behaviors. And it's not a secular society, for I do understand that, as opposed to your point about France. And believe it or not, I understand the right to express your beliefs. I have a hard time of those who pass the line of expressing and it becomes bullying and controlling. I do believe we should still see that we need a separation of church and state, because having rules and laws guiding all of the people from a view point of one part of the people I think is harming.

As for saying it's not a secular state, I'm not going to argue fully, but I grew up with schools, and the media, claiming it so. And if growing up not going to religious services and not forced to read a holy book, I would think my family would not have escaped the ramifications of that. So, what's the difference, or where is there a line that doesn't get crossed?

[Aftermath]

Religion doesn't harm education, I believe we all understand this if we are all in agreement that we mean religion in its strict and literal sense... religion and all religions, not just the teaching of Christianity only. The lack of religion in school is harming education. I didn't learn about other religions until I went to college. These religious classes would have been great in high school as it would have enlightened me sooner.

[+Sherapy]

a1

We seem to be in agreement as to the action recommendation, except for the choice of language.

The United States has neither history nor prospect of hosting a Latin language speaking community. English is fine; Spanish is fine, both are fine with me.

For better or for worse? It is hard not to notice that both placement of the phrase on money and its promotion to general motto status were measures adopted during national emergencies. Much is allowed in emergencies that is not otherwise permissible. As the Patriot Act illustrates, the chief problem with emergency measures is that they linger long after the emergency passes. The motto is no different in its lingering, and is conspicuously less intrusive than the Patriot Act.

Mr Walker

That's the Three Musketeers, not the United States. Our Constitution balances a sphere of privacy with a sphere of public responsibility. Historically, "One from many" (In Latin, E pluribus unum) did not refer to the annihilation of the interests of the individual, whether individual citizens or individual states, but to the coming together of these individuals in limited unison, and so to be both one and also to be many.

Sherapy

It is amusing to think in a Darwinian way, that backwards thinkers would thus condemn their kind to extinction. But of course making babies is the kind of thing people work out without formal instruction .

Indeed, I think the opting out of sex education causes issues, needlessly.

[+Sherapy]

Religion doesn't harm education, I believe we all understand this if we are all in agreement that we mean religion in its strict and literal sense... religion and all religions, not just the teaching of Christianity only. The lack of religion in school is harming education. I didn't learn about other religions until I went to college. These religious classes would have been great in high school as it would have enlightened me sooner.

Exactly, it only helps learning about the diversity of Religions.

[Mr Walker]

I'm surprised that was aloud, considering it appears we were educated in the same province. Religion was avoided like the plague in anything but a historical sense when I was going through highschool. But, it probably depends on when you went to school, as well as where.

While i accept that you might have gone through school without studying religion I don't believe this would be true of the Canadian system You cannot understand humanity or our history or different cultures without a good knowledge of religions. Thus the national Australian curriculum has considerable religious content, from the religion of our indigenous peoples, through religions part in ancient cultures to the study of modern religions and how they shape national entities and culture. Australia is a multicultural society and thus a multi religious nation, so schools celebrate both cultural and religious diversity, with events and special days.

Comparative religious study including modern religious beliefs and practices is probably part of the Canadian system. School events and visits etc might depend on individual schools, teachers /school councils.

Our schools have a visit from the Gideons each year who give out bibles to students who want them. Religious visits, speakers, cultural events such as performances, are at the discretion of the local school council representing parents . Parents have to give consent for students to attend any religious based event.

[Mr Walker]

Mr Walker

That's the Three Musketeers, not the United States. Our Constitution balances a sphere of privacy with a sphere of public responsibility. Historically, "One from many" (In Latin, E pluribus unum) did not refer to the annihilation of the interests of the individual, whether individual citizens or individual states, but to the coming together of these individuals in limited unison, and so to be both one and also to be many.

Yes I know. I would also like to see the US adopt the latest theme music from the series as their national anthem.

The idea of one for all and all for one actually (IMO) sums up the best form of a working democratic nation state. For example, under that system all citizens would be responsible for helping all other citizens with health education public works etc .

Everyone would owe a duty not just to self or family, but to nation and community.

Few people would argue that the one glaring flaw in America's social and governmental state is the emphasis placed on individual rights and prosperity over that of national /community, rights and prosperity.

While I have admiration for the US and its role in the world, it is tempered. One cannot fully admire or respect a nation which allows some citizens to be billionaires, paying almost no tax, while others die from cold, hunger, homelessness, lack of medical treatment etc

Edited April 28, 2015 by Mr Walker

[+Paranoid Android]

If only it were so limited. Unfortunately, believe it or not, the State of Texas drives much of what is in US public school textbooks nationwide. Why, you ask? Because they are one of the largest buyers of textbooks and the companies cater to them. So when the Texas Board of Education approves a curriculum change that's pro-Republican, pro-creationism, pro-religion, anti-evolution, etc. etc. kids in other parts of the country end up with those same textbooks.

http://www.nytimes.c...texas.html?_r=0

Fortunately this influence has begun to wain a bit due to the ability to customize textbooks more easily. But since states tend to use textbooks for years, it will take a while to solve the issue.

Sounds like politics is just as much involved as religion, going by the article. But I see your point. It still sounds very American-centric to me. The world is, after all, larger than the borders of the United States.

[Grandpa Greenman]

While I have admiration for the US and its role in the world, it is tempered. One cannot fully admire or respect a nation which allows some citizens to be billionaires, paying almost no tax, while others die from cold, hunger, homelessness, lack of medical treatment etc

Well at least we agree on one thing.

[Einsteinium]

Everyone would owe a duty not just to self or family, but to nation and community.

Few people would argue that the one glaring flaw in America's social and governmental state is the emphasis placed on individual rights and prosperity over that of national /community, rights and prosperity.

While I have admiration for the US and its role in the world, it is tempered. One cannot fully admire or respect a nation which allows some citizens to be billionaires, paying almost no tax, while others die from cold, hunger, homelessness, lack of medical treatment etc

"Few people would argue that the one glaring flaw in America's social and governmental state is the emphasis placed on individual rights and prosperity over that of national /community, rights and prosperity."

The thing about that is that everyone everywhere is working for their own prosperity and rights. There is nowhere on earth working towards anything else besides there own idea of prosperity and rights. Everyone is selfish and is working towards their own idea of what the right ideal and rights are. The IDEA of America is that no group of people understands what prosperity and rights for EVERYONE is, rather, everyone must CONTRIBUTE to realizing that dream, that goal. You can't tell me what I need to feel prosperous and happy. I can't tell you what you need to feel prosperous and happy. Therefore there is NO rule of the few that can maximize economic utility for the whole, rather, the whole must be given FREEDOM to maximize economic utility in terms of the individual in order to increase total economic utility for the whole- in other words, capitalism. There is NO economic system on earth yet realized that is as good at maximizing total economic utility for the whole as free market capitalism is. FREEDOM is what allows an individual to maximize her/his own families economic utility, and that combined freedom is what allows the US as a nation to maintain its position as the leading world innovator, wealth creator, world policeman, innovator, etc. It is the US system of capitalism, freedom, and the idea of wealth creation (rather than the conquest ethos) that allows for this. Not the US itself, but the ideals that allowed for the US to come into being.

[Mr Walker]

"Few people would argue that the one glaring flaw in America's social and governmental state is the emphasis placed on individual rights and prosperity over that of national /community, rights and prosperity."

The thing about that is that everyone everywhere is working for their own prosperity and rights. There is nowhere on earth working towards anything else besides there own idea of prosperity and rights. Everyone is selfish and is working towards their own idea of what the right ideal and rights are. The IDEA of America is that no group of people understands what prosperity and rights for EVERYONE is, rather, everyone must CONTRIBUTE to realizing that dream, that goal. You can't tell me what I need to feel prosperous and happy. I can't tell you what you need to feel prosperous and happy. Therefore there is NO rule of the few that can maximize economic utility for the whole, rather, the whole must be given FREEDOM to maximize economic utility in terms of the individual in order to increase total economic utility for the whole- in other words, capitalism. There is NO economic system on earth yet realized that is as good at maximizing total economic utility for the whole as free market capitalism is. FREEDOM is what allows an individual to maximize her/his own families economic utility, and that combined freedom is what allows the US as a nation to maintain its position as the leading world innovator, wealth creator, world policeman, innovator, etc. It is the US system of capitalism, freedom, and the idea of wealth creation (rather than the conquest ethos) that allows for this. Not the US itself, but the ideals that allowed for the US to come into being.

In economic ad social terms there are actually many countries superior to the usa in freedom tempered by responsibility They tend to have a capitalist economy regulated by a socialist social system. Thus in Australia, it is not hard to become a millionaire but even the poorest person has almost free access to a good education and good free heath care; and can get a government wage or dole and many benefits sufficient to live comfortably on In other words almost anyone can live with all their needs comfortably met, but if you want to work hard ad take risks you can also become very wealthy. and meet all your desires.

Freedom entails duty and responsibility in order to sustain itself, and America forgets this truth at its own peril.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

Religion doesn't harm education, I believe we all understand this if we are all in agreement that we mean religion in its strict and literal sense... religion and all religions, not just the teaching of Christianity only. The lack of religion in school is harming education. I didn't learn about other religions until I went to college. These religious classes would have been great in high school as it would have enlightened me sooner.

In how I am reading your post, I would agree with you. Religion is a part of our world, our history, our present, and it is the background of a lot of our historic making individuals. And yes, I think it's good to understand the background of every religion and including understanding the background of Atheistic understanding and it's history. Schooling help shape minds, and I think that would be a part of that.

I sometimes wonder if there are others who feel the lack of a particular religion, meaning their own, is harming religion and the people. That is what worries me. Makes me wonder if they should go back to history class and understand how one sided thinking has caused many bad events.

[sarah_444]

In Canada, religion is kept out of schools entirely. We're taught that it exists, but that's basically it. No prayer or religious texts are allowed in schools for any reason, period. The most religion is interacted with is as a subject of history in history classrooms, but only ever in a historical or academic sense.

Private Schools will sometimes have a chapel and religious classes, but they're private and can do what they want.

In Ontario, Catholic schools are still publicly funded, so they still differ from private schools. Religion (Catholicism obviously) is taught daily, and well as prayer and occasional school masses are attended. One religion class is mandatory per year throughout high school. (regardless if the student is Catholic or not) As well as prayer, mass etc etc...

World Religion is available as an optional class in eleventh grade though. I took it and definitely found it to be the most interesting and eye opening of all the religion classes.

Edited April 28, 2015 by sarah_444

[Bavarian Raven]

I'm surprised that was aloud, considering it appears we were educated in the same province. Religion was avoided like the plague in anything but a historical sense when I was going through highschool. But, it probably depends on when you went to school, as well as where.

This was back around '01 or '02 in the greater vancouver region. That could be the reason.

[Aftermath]

In how I am reading your post, I would agree with you. Religion is a part of our world, our history, our present, and it is the background of a lot of our historic making individuals. And yes, I think it's good to understand the background of every religion and including understanding the background of Atheistic understanding and it's history. Schooling help shape minds, and I think that would be a part of that.

I sometimes wonder if there are others who feel the lack of a particular religion, meaning their own, is harming religion and the people. That is what worries me. Makes me wonder if they should go back to history class and understand how one sided thinking has caused many bad events.

I probably could have written my post better. In a nutshell, everyone on earth would benefit if all religions were studied in primary school; not just in a university setting. I am a Christian, but I would never send my boys to a religious school, as I want them to remain open minded and draw conclusions for themselves. I would never oppose religious studies in Middle or High school as long as the curriculum encompassed all of the major world religions.

My theology professor took us to Krishna temples (twice), monasteries, and we studied Buddhism and Islam. He was Catholic by the way - it profoundly solidified my faith in Christianity... but that was me. It was good to learn about other religions, talk about them, compare them - it opens your mind and sheds light on any fear and doubt (which is merely ignorance).

[Davros of Skaro]

Pastor Wagner challenges evolutionists who claim to be Christians to either become Christians who believe the Bible or atheists who believe in evolution.

(Watch the first minute and four seconds to see what makes this Pastor sick)

Edited April 28, 2015 by davros of skaro

[+Paranoid Android]

Pastor Wagner challenges evolutionists who claim to be Christians to either become Christians who believe the Bible or atheists who believe in evolution.

(Watch the first minute and four seconds to see what makes this Pastor sick)

Ahh, I see it now. I couldn't see it before, but now I see exactly why and how "religion" (non-specified term in the OP, but clarified now) harms education.

Good to know then that there are many other forms of religion on the planet that do not adhere to this type.

[Davros of Skaro]

Ahh, I see it now. I couldn't see it before, but now I see exactly why and how "religion" (non-specified term in the OP, but clarified now) harms education.

Good to know then that there are many other forms of religion on the planet that do not adhere to this type.

The redemptive powers of Christ's Blood that removes Sin for the entrance to Heaven can stay at Home while carried in the Heart.Just like the Prophet Muhhamad received the final revelation.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

I probably could have written my post better. In a nutshell, everyone on earth would benefit if all religions were studied in primary school; not just in a university setting. I am a Christian, but I would never send my boys to a religious school, as I want them to remain open minded and draw conclusions for themselves. I would never oppose religious studies in Middle or High school as long as the curriculum encompassed all of the major world religions.

I may have probably should have written my post better as well. In fact, reading it over just now, I meant to saw how one's particular thought of their own religion harming education(not religion) and it's people. Anyhow, I digress............. I find that very cool of you thinking that sending your children to a school so they are exposed to all beliefs. My husband has noted the desire of our kids, in which I agree. But this conversation came up, when a particular person wanted to take our daughter for some time into her religious activities. I told my husband that I am wary of this, because I saw it as a way of trying to indoctrinate our daughter. The jobs I have worked all over has me seeing this more, than his job has. Maybe I'm paranoid in this, but in the end, yes my children were exposed and mostly not indoctrinated. Spending most of their younger years living on a military base, they certainly got their fill of not just cultural differences but of beliefs too.

My theology professor took us to Krishna temples (twice), monasteries, and we studied Buddhism and Islam. He was Catholic by the way - it profoundly solidified my faith in Christianity... but that was me. It was good to learn about other religions, talk about them, compare them - it opens your mind and sheds light on any fear and doubt (which is merely ignorance).

Oh yes, I agree As I remember various history courses and the learning of the different religions. I also like to note various friends and friends of the family, who kindly and not pushed the knowledge of their beliefs. And this is when I only asked. I will again talk about the family friends of my husband's family, who just answered my questions about them as Johoveh Witnesses. There was no indoctrination there. I also have a memory of a neighborhood friend, who took me on a tour of her Catholic church, that was down the street from us. (Actually her house was closer, but in walking distance from mine.) I wasn't pushed into this either. If was fascinating. I think it takes self-confident believers like these people, the friends of my husband's family, and my childhood neighborhood friend, to feel good in their beliefs to not feel did they get a converter or not. They just freely educated only on being asked. I also felt understanding when I still felt good in my own belief. I think it's this type of thing, that I think religion helps others be wonderful to others. I also think that this helped shaped me being me and how my belief understands others.

[UFO_Monster]

Oh, wow. I didn't know THE AronRa had a UM account.

I can testify that religion shouldn't be introduced in primary education. I went to a Christian school with Baptist fundamentals. There, I learned that men walked with dinosaurs, that men once lived for hundreds of years, and that if you insult one of God's servants, you may be mauled by a bear. When I went to university, I was introduced to a world that I'd never seen before. I had doubts about the bible's accuracy, so I wasn't completely brainwashed. I'm pretty fortunate. If religion were taught in public schools, it wouldn't be education. It would be misinformation.

Edited April 29, 2015 by UFO_Monster